Raymond Ibrahim
Raymond Ibrahim is a friend of Robert Spencer and used to be a regular contributor to JihadWatch, he was one of the many who took advantage of the “Islamophobic cash cow” that took off after 9/11 and overnight transformed from “research librarian” into “Islamic scholar” and “Middle East Expert.”
InFocus did a great piece back in 2007 exposing Ibrahim for what he is: a faker.
By Salaam Abdul Khaliq
OK, so you’re a failed writer who toiled for years to achieve fame, fortune and immortality. You’ve spent years in obscurity struggling to pay the bills and keep your head above water, hoping for the day you would eventually earn the attention of some big publisher.
But, sadly for you, all your efforts went by the wayside.
The good news is there is hope. There is just one thing left to do, one thing that would guarantee fame, fortune, a publishing contract and a lot of free media bonanza.
Would you like to know the secret that escaped hundreds of other failed writers like you – academics, journalists, the poor and huddled masses that had bad luck striking gold in the land of opportunity?
OK, here it is - and you need to sit down for this - it’s called “The Islamophobia cash cow.”
Post 9/11, the fastest and surest way to gain celebrity status in the West and garner respect and attention you would otherwise never achieve on your own mediocre merit is to go on an “Islam-bashing” campaign.
And, mind you, you don’t need to be an expert on the subject matter, just make sure to quote verses from the Qur’an out of context, cite Osama Bin Laden as the role model of Muslim behavior, bank on tired canaries like “Islam oppresses women,” and “Islam was spread by the sword,” and other washed out cliches, and voila!
You’re a celebrity, a famous author (a rich, famous author, mind you), a Good Samaritan defending the civilized world from the evils of Islam.
Meet Raymond Ibrahim, the latest client of the “Islamophobia cash cow industry.”
Ibrahim was recently a guest of Air Talk, hosted by Larry Mantle on the Pasadena-based NPR affiliate KPCC. Ibrahim had his 15 minutes at last.
An unknown and obscure menial research librarian at the Library of Congress, Ibrahim thrust himself into the limelight by writing a book called “The Al Qaeda Reader,” (published in 12/06). The newly Christened crusader finally broke down the doors of rejection and abject obscurity and made it to the pantheon of famous “Islam experts.”
And you wonder how many other poor research librarians have risen out of nothingness to sudden fame in a matter of weeks?
Not to worry, Ibrahim has now shown them the fastest path to sleazy righteousness.
Write something that bashes Islam and your “research librarian” title will suddenly transform into “historian of the Middle East and Islam” and “scholar and writer on the Middle East and Islam,” and many other promiscuous titles that have as much worth as fortune cookie sayings.
Then one wonders why a respected talk show host like Mantle would cede the podium to an Islamophobe like Ibrahim without balance, without bringing someone like Karen Armstrong. for example, to challenge his twisted and warped views.
Instead, Mantle let Ibrahim run amuck quoting verses from the Quran ad hoc and out of context, saying for instance that the verse “there is no compulsion in religion” was reprobated, meaning canceled out, by verses of war in what is known as “naskh.”
Ibrahim was given free reign to unabashedly spew lethargic tirades with impunity, shamelessly proclaiming that if Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, were alive today, he would do what Bin Laden is doing now.
Ibrahim also implied that American Muslims presented a danger to American society because their faith teaches them to kill their enemies wherever they are and by all means necessary.
Such alarmism and incitement to hate and paranoia are simply unacceptable, especially coming from an NPR affiliate station that prides itself in being liberal and inclusive.
It is unconscionable for a respected talk show host like Mantle to hand over the microphone to a petty, anti-Muslim research librarian to freely bash Islam and up the ante on American Muslims in order to hype his anti-Islam-disguised-as-a-critique-of-Al-Qaeda book for material gain.
Just like his fellow Arab American Islam-bashers Wafa Sultan and Nonie Darwish, Ibrahim ought to take notice that Arabs and Muslims have always been in the same boat.
Most Americans don’t make the difference. You are whom you bash.
Many icons of Islamophobia before Ibrahim who sought to make a quick buck by viciously maligning Islam and Muslims sold their souls and ended up as dejects, discarded and washed out has-beens with no credibility and no respect.
It won’t be long before the wisdom of “Islamophobia, like crime, does not pay” will catch on. Media outlets and talk show hosts should take notice.
After this piece was published, Raymond revealed that he faced heat from his employers eventually leading to his “resignation”:
after this Islamist op-ed was published, I received much heat from my supervisors at the Library of Congress, partially culminating in my recent resignation from that American bibliotech — another institution that goes out of its way to appease, especially where Saudi money and princes are concerned.
It was good to see the Library of Congress take a stand against rabid anti-Muslims like Raymond Ibrahim. Notice also how he does what Islamophobes do best, resort to conspiracy theories and blaming it on those “influential” Saudis.
No, Raymond those who employed you at the Library of Congress weren’t “appeasers” or “dhmmis” beholden to the world wide influence of the Saudis, they just got fed up with your hate. Kudos to them.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
I don’t hear much from the clown anymore. He is a lame, if it weren’t for JWatch no one would know his name.
January 13th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
I’ve seen his stupid articles on JW sometimes. An idiotic self-maligning bozo wanna-be journalist. Keep dreaming Raymond. Keep dreaming.
January 13th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
The Muslim religion commands Muslims to work for the complete dominance of Islam…. and Loonwatch appears to be helping them.
January 13th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
At stuart parsons: plz support ur claim. And does verse 2:256 not stand out to you? “let there be no compulsion in religion; truth is distinct from error!”
January 13th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
lol I remember this clown. I hope he’s on welfare.
January 13th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
About the photograph
Who is that guy(with sun glass) sitting near the cage of Raymond Ibrahim?
January 13th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
@Emperor
If you guys are really opposed to hatred why did you post an article written by Salaam Abdul Khaliq? Salaam is an anti-semite who has compared Israel to nazi germany and claims that hollywood and the American government are controlled by Jews. And as the ADL points out in focus has repeatedly published what can be described as hate speech, such as Khalil Bendib’s bigoted and in at least one case; misogynistic cartoons.
http://www.adl.org/Israel/cair/news.asp
FYI this post is not meant to defend Raymond Ibrahim; I have nothing but contempt for Spencer and bigot pack, but people like Salaam Abdul Khaliq are not any better.
January 13th, 2010 at 10:46 pm
My former colleagues at Jihadica, an actual blog on Jihad, took a nice **** on this gentleman a year or so ago. His Al-Qaeda reader is pretty shallow, there are much better works out there for those who want to study this phenomenon. I find it notable that even JihadWatch is too low-brow for Ibrahim, seeing as how he left Spencer’s blog and now appears to be attempting to distance himself from it by posing as an actual academic.
January 13th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
Cassidy,
To compare Salaam Abdel Khaleq or Khalil Bendib to Robert Spencer means that you are either terribly ignorant about Salaam and Khalil or terribly ignorant about Spencer.
They are nothing alike.
Criticizing Israeli oppression is not anti-semitism, it is basic decency. Beyond that very reasonable criticism, neither Salaam or Khalil have ever made any remarks against Jews as a people, or Judaism as a faith and I challenge you to prove otherwise. Unlike, Spencer of course whose whole beef is to demonize both the religion of Islam and Muslim people at large — not criticize a Muslim country or its policies. You can’t compare criticizing a country (or its ugly policies and projects) with the hatred of an entire people.
The equivocation of Israeli hawkish policy or the government of Israel to “judaism” or “jews at large” and then branding critics of the former as hateful of the latter (anti-semitic) is an old trick in the Zionist advocacy book. Stop reading it, it dominates much of your comments here.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:44 am
@Get real
I have no problem against sane criticism of Israel however when someone compares Israel to nazi germany and invokes the myth of Jewish control that someone is an anti-semite. And then there’s the matter of how in focus has praised terrorists, claimed that the Jews provoked the holocaust and published hateful cartoons. The comparisons are perfectly fair; all three are bigots or do you deny that Bendib has drawn some of the most revolting cartoons ever pubished; such as the cartoon portrayed the ADL as fat and ‘hook nosed’? Or do you think there’s nothing offensive about Khaliq claiming that Hollywood is controlled by Jews?
“The equivocation of Israeli hawkish policy or the government of Israel to “judaism” or “jews at large” and then branding critics of the former as hateful of the latter (anti-semitic) is an old trick in the Zionist advocacy book.”
This sounds almost identical to Robert Spencer claiming that he doesn’t hate muslims and that his critics are out to brand him as hateful.
January 14th, 2010 at 4:18 am
Cassidy
“Salaam is an anti-semite who has compared Israel to nazi germany”
How many times do we have to tell you that anti-semitism is a wholesale criticism of the Jewish religion or people. Nobody does that here.
Time and again, you equate critcising Israel as antisemitsm.IT IS NOT. CRITICISING ISRAEL IS NOT ANTISEMITISM.EVEN IF SALAAM COMPARED ISRAEL TO NAZI GERMANY IT IS NOT ANTISEMITSM
“and claims that hollywood and the American government are controlled by Jews”
How is anti-semitism to say the Jews built Hollywood, that is a fact, even Jews don’t deny, see below and what Salaam meant was that Foreign Policy is controlled by neocons, it’s true, read Walt and Mearsherimeir’s book “The Israel Lobby” and wasn’t the Iraq war evidence fabricated by extremist Israeli’s? (OSP) I’ve posted links here before, the OSP went through Mossad . Douglas Feith was arrested shortly after for spying for Israel.
Hollywood and the Jews
By Rob Eshman March 19, 2009
http://www.jewishjournal.com/oscars/article/hollywood_and_the_jews_20090304/
I’ve said it before: The two greatest Jewish inventions of the 20th century are Hollywood and Israel. Both provided a means of refuge from the real world. Jews founded Israel to help Jews escape the world. They founded Hollywood to help the world escape reality.
In Hollywood, real men became ideal men, and real life became ideal life. Those two forces — the real and the ideal — are forever in conflict in the Jewish soul. Our stories and traditions present the world as it is — flawed, broken, bitter — but also as it should be — ideal, messianic, sweet.
Jews created an industry that struggles to blend the real and the ideal, art and money, the grinding reality of box office and the lasting impact of a perfect scene: the show and the business.
If God created man in his own image, Jews created Hollywood in theirs. And if you love movies like I do, for that you’d have to say, “Thank God.”
An Empire of Their Own: How the Jews Invented Hollywood (Paperback)
http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Their-Own-Invented-Hollywood/dp/0385265573
The author presents “an entertaining, wide-ranging, in-depth account” of the Jewish studio executives, theater owners, producers, writers, lawyers and talent agents who dominated the American film industry until shortly after WW II. “Gabler vividly recreates a way of life now gone forever,” commented PW. Photos.
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Why don’t you start your own blog? Why don’t you debate DrMaxtor at his own blog instead of moaning here? why don’t you learn that criticising Israel and the occupation is not anti-semitism? Don’t even think of trying to get us to stop criticising Israel under the pretence of calling it anti-semitism.
Cassidy, you are a most unwelcome distraction. Kindly go to blogger and start your own blog, and get your ass out of here. No need to give your email to me or emporer or anyone else and asking them to debate you offline.
I am sick of reading your ignorant posts on things you know nothing about. If you are Jewish you don’t even know your own history.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Muslim like beard? Check.
He seems to have fulfilled all the requirements.
January 14th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
A failed writer….spent years in obscurity struggling to pay the bills….an unknown and obscure “menial” research librarian……
Geez, if the guy is such a loser, why would an elite, exalted, widely repected and internationally revered website like this one even deign to comment on him?
I recall an old saying – the truth hurts.
January 14th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
What is a lethargic tirade? A tirade delivered…..lethargically? Guess ya had to be there…..
Time and again, you equate critcising Israel as antisemitsm.IT IS NOT. CRITICISING ISRAEL IS NOT ANTISEMITISM.EVEN IF SALAAM COMPARED ISRAEL TO NAZI GERMANY IT IS NOT ANTISEMITSM.
Who gives a hoot about what any one person says about the Jews or Israel.
Rather lets focus on what the koran says about the Jews. Need I say anything more?
Try defending that. For example, how about – “Oh muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me (Iam a tree…or a rock, forget which), come and kill it” – for starters.
January 14th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
@Lou
I am begining to believe Lou is that loser Raymond Ibrahim in disguise.
January 14th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
@Schlafituis
No. Lou is a moron who’s been hanging around here for a while now. He takes out his frustrations on Muslims because he can’t deal with the fact that he has a pathetic life devoid of any real value and full of failures. Ignore him. He’s not worth responding to.
January 14th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
“How many times do we have to tell you that anti-semitism is a wholesale criticism of the Jewish religion or people. Nobody does that here.”
So you really don’t see anything offensive about comparing Israel to nazi germany? And for the record I’m uncritical of Israel; I am opposed to Israel settlements for example and a great deal of Israeli settlers strike me as being whiney fanatics.
“Time and again, you equate critcising Israel as antisemitsm.”
Did you even read my post? I don’t think that sane criticism of Israel is anti-semitism; however when someone invokes fantasies of Jewish control straight out of the protocol and compares Israel to nazi germany that is anti-semitism.
“read Walt and Mearsherimeir’s book “The Israel Lobby”
You mean the book written by Jew haters that’s full of lies? Please read this:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/talking/44_Harvard.html#2
So Jews or ‘neo cons’ do not control Americans politics or foreign policy; that’s a lie straight out of the protocols of the elders of zion. It also sounds very similar to the claims that anti-muslim bigots make about saudi influence.
“and wasn’t the Iraq war evidence fabricated by extremist Israeli’s?”
That’s a conspiracy theory; better stop taking Alex Jones seriously.
“They founded Hollywood to help the world escape reality.”
If Jews control Hollywood then please explain why Eisner’s replacement George Mitchell isn’t Jewish but is in fact of Irish and Lebanese descent. The spew you’ve posted is nothing but a rehash of the protocols of the elders of zion, if Hollywood was founded by individuals of Jewish descent it doesn’t prove a vast Jewish conspiracy. I suppose you also think that a vast Norwegian conspiracy controls the black metal industry since so many early black metal musicians were Norwegian? See how silly that is?
“why don’t you learn that criticising Israel and the occupation is not anti-semitism?”
I’ve posted this so many times; sane criticism of Israel is not anti-semitism, nonsensical fantasies of Jewish control and comparisons of Israel to nazi germany is anti-semitism however, not to mention the support of terrorism that in focus has published. Also that comment sounds rather similar to robert spencer insisting that opposing ‘jihad’ isn’t islamophobia.
January 14th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Also I’m uncritical of Judaism; which has given the world misogyny, anti-LGBT bigotry and child genital mutilation/torture, thankfully reform and liberal Judaism exists.
January 14th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
@Cassidy
“You mean the book written by Jew haters that’s full of lies? Please read this:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/talking/44_Harvard.html#2
So Jews or ‘neo cons’ do not control Americans politics or foreign policy; that’s a lie straight out of the protocols of the elders of zion. It also sounds very similar to the claims that anti-muslim bigots make about saudi influence.”
Jews haters? Is anyone who’s critical of Israel a Jew hater in your eyes? Typical, you provide a link from JVL, a Zionist website that denies the Nakba. (note: that doesn’t mean it’s not a good resource for other things such as the Holocaust)
And no one said the Jewish community at large is at fault, mostly the right-wing factions. Jews do not control the world, but there’s no denying that there are powerful pro-Israeli forces that influence US policy, one of them being the Israel Lobby. It’s not antisemitic to say that. I actually think the Israel Lobby may be overrated in terms of its influence. I didn’t think that when I first read their thesis, but a few articles from Joseph Massad, Noam Chomsky, and As’ad Abukhalil convinced me of other factors that are at play and some holes in their argument, but of course from a pro-Palestinian perspective.
“comparisons of Israel to nazi germany is anti-semitism however”
Not really. It’s fair to compare the highly militaristic nature between Germany and Israel. You could also use imperial Japan as an example. If I compared Israel to imperial Japan, is that also antisemitic? Or is it only antisemitic when you use Nazi Germany? It’s also perfectly acceptable to compare the Palestinian resistance to Israel to the Jewish resistance against the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto. In fact, Marek Edelman, a commander of the Jewish resistance in Warsaw, who remained an anti-Zionist his whole life and supported the Palestinians, made this comparison. So I guess this Jewish hero is also an anti-Semite? The PLO would lay flower-wreaths at the Warsaw monument to honor their sacrifice. But I bet your Zionist propaganda told you that the PLO were a Holocaust denying terrorist organization!
January 14th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
Cassidy, you stupid illiterate moron,
Walt and Mearsheirmeir are not Jew haters, Mearsheimer is a Jew himself, and Walt is a Harvard tutor. Read and learn from him
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com
It’s not they, it’s you who is living a conspiracy theory. How dare you come here with your garbage that you vomit time and time again
“The spew you’ve posted is nothing but a rehash of the protocols of the elders of zion, if Hollywood was founded by individuals of Jewish descent it doesn’t prove a vast Jewish conspiracy.”
Again, blind stupid illiterate skitzo, THOSE ARE JEWS TAKING PRIDE IN THEIR ACHIEVMENTS, AND a skitzo like you thinks that is anti semitism and a conspiracy. Why aren’t you accusing the Jewish Journal of jew hatred because they said Jews built hollywood?
“That’s a conspiracy theory; better stop taking Alex Jones seriously.”
again your exhibit your crass ignorance, the Guardian is the most influential publication in the world, with a 4 million daily readership. Hardly Alex Jones now is it? Are you saying the OSP did NOT fabricate the Iraq war intelligence? Feith arrested in the aftermath
————-
The spies who pushed for war
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,4714031-103681,00.html
The OSP was an open and largely unfiltered conduit to the White House not
only for the Iraqi opposition. It also forged close ties to a parallel, ad
hoc intelligence operation inside Ariel Sharon’s office in Israel
specifically to bypass Mossad and provide the Bush administration with more alarmist reports on Saddam’s Iraq than Mossad was prepared to authorise.
“None of the Israelis who came were cleared into the Pentagon through normal channels,” said one source familiar with the visits. Instead, they were waved in on Mr Feith’s authority without having to fill in the usual forms.
The exchange of information continued a long-standing relationship Mr Feith and other Washington neo-conservatives had with Israel’s Likud party.
—————-
and not only Iraq, now the neo cons are trying to push the US into Iran
————–
Iran Nuclear Trigger Document a Forgery, Mossad Suspected
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/12/30/iran-nuclear-trigger-document-a-forgery-mossad-suspected-as-culprit/
—————-
http://www.truthout.org/topstories/122809vh4
by: Gareth Porter | Inter Press Service
Nuke Document Was Forged
Monday 28 December 2009
————–
POLITICS: U.S. Intelligence Found Iran Nuke Document Was Forged
By Gareth Porter*
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=49833
WASHINGTON, Dec 28 (IPS) – U.S. intelligence has concluded that the document published recently by the Times of London, which purportedly describes an Iranian plan to do experiments on what the newspaper described as a “neutron initiator” for an atomic weapon, is a fabrication, according to a former Central Intelligence Agency official.
———-
and Cassidy, check out J Street, their founding mission was to set up a peace lobby to rival AIPAC, that has too much influence over US foreign policy. Likud influence. That is exactly what Walt and Mearsheimer were saying. J Street founders and supporters include prominent American and Israeli Jews as well as Americans and Arabs, both Christian and Muslim, who support this mission.
Are you saying J Street is also a jew hating conspiracy? Take your ignorance and your sorry ass out of here.
I have had it with your nonsense, and your vomiting, and your total lack of knowledge of the political scene, you say you’re a Jew, yet how can you be so ignorant of your own history?
don’t you ever come here and tell Emperor and others that they cannot use, such and such a source, don’t you ever deign to tell others your revised, narrowminded, picture of history, we’re not interested nor have the time to write rebuttals to your garbage.
January 14th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
First i want to apologise for goiing off topic, but i think it is important that readers here see what we are up against.
Cassidy is a prime example of those who apologise for the neo cons and Christian Taliban, who cannot seem to do anything wrong in their eyes. Cassidy said it’s an Alex Jones type conspiracy to say the neo cons fabricated the iraq war evidence, but the sources below and what J Street Supporter posted are all respectable sources.
Cassidy cannot even stomach Jews taking pride in their achievements, does anyone see anything wrong in taking pride in building Hollywood? In this same way, he has tried to belittle Islamic contributions to history. For some sick reason, he thinks achievements are something that should not be bragged about.
The grandest irony of Cassidy’s accusation of jew hating lies by Walt and Mearshiermer is that Haaretz, Israel’s most respected daily, itself had an articile in which it blamed 25 Jewish neo cons without which Iraq would not have happened.
This is the reason that neo cons want Armeggedonites in power, because their Armeggedon agenda means they support a war against Iran just like they did with Iraq.
Yet we have this dangerous skitzo Cassidy, who is here to whitewash, deceive and deny what is before our eyes.
—————
False Pretenses
http://www.publicintegrity.org/WarCard/Default.aspx?src=home&context=overview&id=945
Following 9/11, President Bush and seven top officials of his administration waged a carefully orchestrated campaign of misinformation about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.
By Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith
January 23, 2008
————–
Public Statements Regarding Iraq By US Government Officials Were
Substantiated By Intelligence Information
http://intelligence.senate.gov/080605/phase2a.pdf
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Last update – 01:08 05/04/2003
White man’s burden
By Ari Shavit
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=280279&contrassID=2&subContrassID=14&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history. Two of them, journalists William Kristol and Charles Krauthammer, say it’s possible. But another journalist, Thomas Friedman (not part of the group), is skeptical
In the course of the past year, a new belief has emerged in the town: the belief in war against Iraq. That ardent faith was disseminated by a small group of 25 or 30 neoconservatives, almost all of them Jewish, almost all of them intellectuals (a partial list: Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, William Kristol, Eliot Abrams, Charles Krauthammer), people who are mutual friends and cultivate one another and are convinced that political ideas are a major driving force of history. They believe that the right political idea entails a fusion of morality and force, human rights and grit. The philosophical underpinnings of the Washington neoconservatives are the writings of Machiavelli, Hobbes and Edmund Burke. They also admire Winston Churchill and the policy pursued by Ronald Reagan. They tend to read reality in terms of the failure of the 1930s (Munich) versus the success of the 1980s (the fall of the Berlin Wall).
Is the Iraq war the great neoconservative war? It’s the war the neoconservatives wanted, Friedman says. It’s the war the neoconservatives marketed. Those people had an idea to sell when September 11 came, and they sold it. Oh boy, did they sell it. So this is not a war that the masses demanded. This is a war of an elite. Friedman laughs: I could give you the names of 25 people (all of whom are at this moment within a five-block radius of this office) who, if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and a half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened.
January 14th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
“Jews haters? Is anyone who’s critical of Israel a Jew hater in your eyes?”
I already went over this; I have no problem with sane criticism of Israel, comparing it to nazi germany and spouting fantasies about Jewish control do not fall into that category.
“Typical, you provide a link from JVL, a Zionist website that denies the Nakba.”
They provide a good critique of the book and besides you can find that stupid book disproven on other sites.
“Jews do not control the world, but there’s no denying that there are powerful pro-Israeli forces that influence US policy, one of them being the Israel Lobby. It’s not antisemitic to say that.”
If that’s true why did Walt and Mearsherimeir have to spin fairy tales about Israel getting the US into the Iraq war? And yes it is anti-semitic it’s straight out of the protocols.
“I didn’t think that when I first read their thesis, but a few articles from Joseph Massad, Noam Chomsky, and As’ad Abukhalil convinced me of other factors that are at play and some holes in their argument, but of course from a pro-Palestinian perspective.”
Hahahaha! You think chomsky is an objective source? The guy denies the genocide of muslim Bosniaks and supported the Khmer Rouge, kind of like how you deny the brutalities of islamic slavery.
“It’s fair to compare the highly militaristic nature between Germany and Israel.”
No it’s not; it’s offensive for obvious reasons it’s an attempt to highjack the Holocaust for Arab imperialism and the comparison an example of godwin’s law. However if you were to ask what states are comparable to nazi Germany I would have to say China and Iran (because of their homophobic policies).
“The view that Zionism is Nazism — there is no other way to understand the phrase “Zionist SS” — is not different in kind from the view that the moon is cheese. It is not only spectacularly wrong, it is also spectacularly unintelligent. I will not offend myself (that would be self-hate speech!) by patiently explaining why the State of Israel is unlike the Third Reich, except to say that nothing that has befallen the Palestinians under Israel’s control may responsibly be compared to what befell the Jews under Germany’s control, and that a considerable number of the people who have toiled diligently to find peace and justice for the Palestinians, and a solution to this savage conflict, have been Israeli, some of them even Israeli prime ministers. There is no support for the Palestinian cause this side of decency that can justify the locution “Zionist SS.”
-Leon Wieseltier
“It’s also perfectly acceptable to compare the Palestinian resistance to Israel to the Jewish resistance against the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto.”
No it isn’t, that’s a bogus and offensive comparison.
“But I bet your Zionist propaganda told you that the PLO were a Holocaust denying terrorist organization!”
So you’re now sticking up the PLO? And you expect me to believe that you’re not an anti-semite? The PLO has promoted holocaust denial material although I don’t want to turn this into a debate about the Israeli – Arab conflict, if you want to debate that email me at Wilburwhately48@gmail.com
January 15th, 2010 at 1:48 am
“Cassidy, you stupid illiterate moron”
Thanks for showing that you are unable to debate like an adult.
“Walt and Mearsheirmeir are not Jew haters”
Then explain the book’s support for terrorism, tell me how does it feel to use a book endorsed by Osama Bin Laden as a source? You also ignored the critique of that book, also check out the significant criticism the book has recieved:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Foreign_Policy#Criticism
“Goldberg finds that the authors “cherry-picked” their sources, deliberately leave out important information, and come to irrational conclusions and inferences based on their chosen evidence.”
“Walt is a Harvard tutor.”
Except Harvard professors have also criticized the book.
“THOSE ARE JEWS TAKING PRIDE IN THEIR ACHIEVMENTS, AND a skitzo like you thinks that is anti semitism and a conspiracy.”
You completely missed my point, if you really can’t see the difference between claiming that a Jewish cabal controls Hollywood (which is what Khaliq said) and pointing out Jews who happened to be involved in the founding of hollywood decades ago you need help.
Why aren’t you accusing the Jewish Journal of jew hatred because they said Jews built hollywood?”
Because they’re simply pointing out that Jews decades ago were involved in the founding of hollywood they are not claiming that Jews control hollywood.
“again your exhibit your crass ignorance, the Guardian is the most influential publication in the world, with a 4 million daily readership. Hardly Alex Jones now is it? Are you saying the OSP did NOT fabricate the Iraq war intelligence?”
First off that article offered no sources, second of all British intelligence also fabricated evidence about Iraq so do you also think that the British secretly control America?
“you say you’re a Jew, yet how can you be so ignorant of your own history?”
I’m not Jewish and I never said I was Jewish; your reading comprehension is terrible.
“don’t you ever come here and tell Emperor and others that they cannot use, such and such a source, don’t you ever deign to tell others your revised, narrowminded, picture of history, we’re not interested nor have the time to write rebuttals to your garbage.”
I didn’t say what he couldn’t use; my point is that if Emperor serious about being opposed to hatred he shouldn’t use a source that openly supports terrorism.
“Cassidy is a prime example of those who apologise for the neo cons and Christian Taliban”
I’m nothing of the kind, I have never professed any neo con or conservative Christian sentiments; especially since I’m a proponent of LGBT rights.
“Cassidy said it’s an Alex Jones type conspiracy to say the neo cons fabricated the iraq war evidence, but the sources below and what J Street Supporter posted are all respectable sources. ”
If you’re talking about the Israel Lobby myth yes it is an Alex Jones type conspiracy theory.
“Cassidy cannot even stomach Jews taking pride in their achievements, does anyone see anything wrong in taking pride in building Hollywood?”
That’s not what I said; my point was that a history of Jewish involvement in hollywood does not prove the existence of a Jewish cabal dominating hollywood which is what khaliq was talking about, in addition to lying about me you are distorting what I posted.
“In this same way, he has tried to belittle Islamic contributions to history.”
I don’t deny that Arabs have contributed great things to humanity; however what I do deny is that islam can be credited with those achievements mainly because religion and science are opposites and since people like Al-Razi were not exactly devout muslims, but that’s another topic.
“For some sick reason, he thinks achievements are something that should not be bragged about.”
Another lie I’ve never said that.
‘The grandest irony of Cassidy’s accusation of jew hating lies by Walt and Mearshiermer is that Haaretz, Israel’s most respected daily, itself had an articile in which it blamed 25 Jewish neo cons without which Iraq would not have happened.”
I suggest you read this:
http://www.jcpa.org/brief/brief3-25.htm
“Yet we have this dangerous skitzo Cassidy, who is here to whitewash, deceive and deny what is before our eyes”
That’s rich coming from someone who posted a disgusting defense of Islamic slavery.
January 15th, 2010 at 3:06 am
I could hardly believe my eyes when I saw Cassidy’s last line to Yusuf.
I think this wilburwhately gmail id is set up with a trap of some sort, so often has Cassidy tried to lure posters here.
Yusuf, be careful, I personally believe Cassidy is here for unlterior motives, like harvesting IP addresses of the members. You’re about the 10th member here he/she has given his email to.
Once again, he/she is trying to get someone here to email him offline.
What i find pecular about Cassidy’s obsessive desire to debate with LOON WATCH MEMBERS is that he has criticised DrM, Joachim Martillo and a number of other members blogs here. Cassidy objects to them posting here, because he/she doesn’t like the material on their own blogs which they link to on their moniker. His/her typical retort to such members is:
“Do you see the double standard of what you’re saying when you’re propogating anti-semitism at your own blog?”
Yet if you check their blogs, Cassidy does not debate them there. Why doesn’t Cassidy debate DrM Johachim Martillo and others at their own blogs? they have a commenting system there.
If Cassidy really wanted to debate people or has disagreements with them at their blogs, why does he raise them here and not on their blogs?
Why is so desperate to debate people at Loon Watch?
January 15th, 2010 at 11:14 am
“No it’s not; it’s offensive for obvious reasons it’s an attempt to highjack the Holocaust for Arab imperialism and the comparison an example of godwin’s law. However if you were to ask what states are comparable to nazi Germany I would have to say China and Iran (because of their homophobic policies).”
What is Arab imperialism? Pro-Palestinian intellectuals do not use the Holocaust for their own self-interests, that’s what Zionists do. And Iran is not Nazi Germany. Not even close. Israel has been attacking its neighbors for 6 decades. It’s a highly militaristic state. It has attacked Tunisia, Libya, Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt. Clearly the aggressor.
“Hahahaha! You think chomsky is an objective source? The guy denies the genocide of muslim Bosniaks and supported the Khmer Rouge, kind of like how you deny the brutalities of islamic slavery.”
Where did I deny Islamic slavery? I didn’t. I said that European Christian slavery was worse, which is a fact. And I don’t agree with Chomsky on everything (which obviously as a Muslim, I have a lot of problems with his views), I was specifically referring to his arguments on the Israel Lobby. Massad and Abukhalil thoughts on the Israel Lobby were more convincing because they approached it as pro-Palestinian Arabs.
“So you’re now sticking up the PLO?”
Maybe we can discuss this in another thread when the topic is relevant.
January 15th, 2010 at 11:48 am
Lou is a moron who’s been hanging around here for a while now. He takes out his frustrations on Muslims because he can’t deal with the fact that he has a pathetic life devoid of any real value and full of failures. Ignore him. He’s not worth responding to.
Geez Jusuf. Your revelations on people you’ve never met are simply amazing! Pathetic life devoid of value and full of failures?
I’ve been intimately involved in 2 successful startup companies that went on to be acquired by Fortune 500 companies. Thats the American Dream, nimrod. That provides jobs and security for hundreds of families.
No Jusuf, the devotees of islam are the pathetic failures whose lives are devoid of meaning. Just look at the middle east and tell me differently. These jihadis simply have nothing better to do with themselves. And they are even more frustrated because of the strict segregation of the sexes.
Islam produces nothing. Anywhere. Oh geez, did I forget about 1001 islamic inventions? What a joke that one is. Islam, always living in the past.
January 15th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
Raymond Ibrahim has never been a research librarian. He was a library technician spending most of his day at the front desk.
January 16th, 2010 at 5:30 am
Oh poor Lou, look at his whining
“I’ve been intimately involved in 2 successful startup companies that went on to be acquired by Fortune 500 companies. Thats the American Dream, nimrod. That provides jobs and security for hundreds of families.”
Boo hoooooooooo, hey Yusuf, you grossly underestimated Lou LOL, man, didn’t you know being “intimately involved” in building Fortune 500 companies can be construed to mean, making tea..being a delivery boy…well you get my drift..please give Lou his dues
I personally think Lou is either Robert Spencer, or Daniel Pipes or someone sent by them…
and Lou,
“Islam produces nothing. Anywhere. Oh geez, did I forget about 1001 islamic inventions? What a joke that one is. Islam, always living in the past.”
Perhap’s you should’ve studied economics whilst you were builing (…..coughs) your Fortune 500 companies. You would’ve discovered that the reason the Muslim countries they’re in the mess they’re in now is because of colonial misrule, that imposed dictatorships, that claim to be Muslim, but they’re usually some other ideology masquerading as Islam. The Islamic system of rule does’t exist anywhere in the world today, it’s mainly tin pot dictatorships, abusing religion for power.
However this is a temporary phase, and it was actually foretold in Islamic prophecies, which i won’t go into since you’re not Muslim. Everything is being played out as foretold.
But anyway, the Middle Eastern countries along with indonesia and RUssia, India, and other tiger economies are the power houses of tomorrow.
Cassidy
If you choose to selectively answer some, and ignore that which exposes your duplicity, then don’t bother to answer at all.
You pretend to be all neutral and anti-hate but youre a sly deceiver and i can see through you. We don’t need fake allies like you. How dare you blame Britain for fabricating the iraq war evidence, and for someone who claims to be pro american, you sure don’t have a problem with Douglas Feith being a traitor.
It’s patently clear what you’re trying to do here, we can see your pretence and lies.
Give me Lou, or Dolly or Milad, or Laurnece at least they don’t pretend to be our friends, or put on a neutral air, whilst trying to intimidate.
Your statement on religion being incompatible with science is something that you like to hide behind to show your contempt for religion. some religions are like Christinaity, because they discourage thinking and learing, but Islam is not like that, neither is Judaism.
Islam and science are wholly compatible. You’re a hypocrite and a fake, and i can see through you, i also know what you’re doing here. Don’t worry, i shall be right behind you, exposing you at every step.
So go and take your self fabricated garbage, and your “air of neutrality” and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine.
Yusuf, don’t be taken in by Cassidy, you obviously don’t read all his posts or you’d understand what he/she is all about.
January 16th, 2010 at 7:52 am
Yusuf
You’re feeding the troll called Cassidy, don’t fall into his/her trap, he/she is here to deliberately take threads off topic, by pretending to be a neutral whilst in reality the picture is quite ugly
Cassidy lies, and attributes things to people they have not said, all the time apologising for American terror, and excusing American crimes by the neo cons. He is an apologist for terror, an apologist for Zionist crimes, an apologist for Douglas Feith, an apologist for American traitors who are neo cons, and he does this, not like Lou or Durendal, in an honest way, but in a nasty insiduous low down cheap cunning way.
Unlike neo cons we don’t want fake support. Take your neutrality and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine, Cassidy you apologist for terror. Yusuf, Cassidy objected to being told that America groomed Bin Laden and the Taliban,
I for one as sick of seeing this ugly character here
Cassidy has yet to explain why he/she posts here, nor why she/he never invites the Islamophobes to debate her/him offline.
and no Cassidy don’t respond to this ,with your usual lies, history revising and pretence neatrality, your love for paganism, what the hell are you doing in a club for Monotheists?
go and join a pagan cult and leave us alone
January 16th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
@ Lou:
congrats on the company, although u cud by lying, I don’t see why u would be. I’ll tell u rite now tho, I’m a Muslim, and I’m in high school getting straight As, and my failure Muslim parents are not only devout toward their “cult”, they are BOTH successful doctors, my dad himself is a heart surgeon and my mom a pediatrician. My mom wears a hijab by her own choice, as does my older sister. My mom has her own car which my DAD bought for her. As for myself, I wanna combat islamophobia and become an influential politician like wilders except with a better brain. Hell, I may even be the first Muslim president!
So, if ur gonna refer to Muslims as failures, just be a little more careful.
January 16th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Okay, I apologize Lou. I have no reason to not believe you. Congratulations. I’m an engineering graduate student at the moment.
I know Nabeela. Cassidy is so obsessed with Israel it’s hard to resist sometimes.
January 17th, 2010 at 12:52 am
“Cassidy lies, and attributes things to people they have not said, all the time apologising for American terror, and excusing American crimes by the neo cons.”
Could you back your baseless accusations up with examples? Oh wait that’s right you can’t.
” Yusuf, Cassidy objected to being told that America groomed Bin Laden and the Taliban,”
What I objected to was someone claiming that bin laden was a CIA agent.
“Cassidy has yet to explain why he/she posts here, nor why she/he never invites the Islamophobes to debate her/him offline.”
We’ve already gone over this.
“your love for paganism”
Ah yes your bigoted opinions against pagans; of course you actually know very little about paganism (which is actually a blanket term it doesn’t refer to a single faith).
January 17th, 2010 at 1:01 am
@Nabeela
“How dare you blame Britain for fabricating the iraq war evidence, and for someone who claims to be pro american, you sure don’t have a problem with Douglas Feith being a traitor.”
You miss my point; if Feith’s treason ‘proves’ alleged Jewish control over America then surely the British fabrication of evidence proves British control of America, of course it doesn’t.
“Give me Lou, or Dolly or Milad, or Laurnece at least they don’t pretend to be our friends, or put on a neutral air, whilst trying to intimidate.”
And where have I tried to intimidate anyone?
“Your statement on religion being incompatible with science is something that you like to hide behind to show your contempt for religion. some religions are like Christinaity, because they discourage thinking and learing, but Islam is not like that, neither is Judaism.”
That’s pure nonsense, all religions of incomptible with science, since religion is based on faith while science isn’t, just look at the religious rejection of darwinism.
“Islam and science are wholly compatible.”
I hate to break it to you but there’s nothing remote scientiffic about believing in an invisible man in the sky who care what women wear. The rest of your post is a collection whiney garbage that doesn’t merit a response, if you can’t stand me then stop replying to me.
January 17th, 2010 at 4:10 am
Fortune 500 companies? LOL The only thing Lou is a pioneer is in trying to convince everyone that his seven shades of turd doesn’t stink. This guys ancestors were wallowing in dirt while Muslims were putting together the periodic table. These retarded idiots ought to be banned.
The usual zionazi mental defectives chiming in their racist absurd nonsense living 5000 years in the past. How typical.
January 17th, 2010 at 5:22 am
@Yusuf
“What is Arab imperialism?”
Just look at any Arab state secular or otherwise.
“Pro-Palestinian intellectuals do not use the Holocaust for their own self-interests”
Oh please practically every pro-palestinian individuals rushes at the chance to compare israel to nazi germany.
“And Iran is not Nazi Germany. Not even close.”
The comparison is highly fitting, Iran’s vile anti-gay policies mirror the nazi’s policies towards jews such as ahmadinejad claiming that ‘Iran doesn’t have homosexuals’. Also look into the vile murder of Mona Mahmudnizhad, an action easily comparable to nazism. Plus there’s the fact that khomeini was an avid listener to nazi propaganda broadcasts.
“Israel has been attacking its neighbors for 6 decades.”
Yes because we all know that those brutal dictatorships just want to be pals.
“Where did I deny Islamic slavery? I didn’t. I said that European Christian slavery was worse, which is a fact.”
There is no such thing as ‘worse’ or ‘better’ slavery; by making that absurd argument you are trying to minimalize the suffering of countless people just how genocide deniers try to minamalize mass murder, just like how David Irving tries to minimize the amount of people who died in the holocaust. Try telling these people what they experienced was ‘humane’ or ‘not so bad’:
“Many freed slaves bore signs of beatings, burnings and other tortures. More than three-quarters of formerly enslaved women and girls reported rapes.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Sudan
“Massad and Abukhalil thoughts on the Israel Lobby were more convincing because they approached it as pro-Palestinian Arabs.”
If the Israel Lobby is really that big of a deal then why the guys who wrote that crappy book the israel lobby distort facts?
“When the authors imply that the bipartisan support of Israel in Congress is a result of Jewish influence, they function as classic conspiracy theorists who attribute decisions to nefarious alliances rather than to the choices of a democratic electorate.”
“The paper contains three types of major errors: quotations are wrenched out of context, important facts are misstated or omitted, and embarrassingly weak logic is employed.”
January 17th, 2010 at 6:17 am
Ah Lou,
“Islam produces nothing”
We produce a lot of babies….and will continue to do so until we outnumber everyone, then we will forcibily convert everyone, make them wear pink jubbas and eat ladoos and baklava.
Now run along and wait for the coming end of the civilised world in your bunker.
@Cassidy- for you to call anyone a bigot is just so beyond hypocritical when you make statements about ‘invisble men in the sky caring about what women wear’. You have zero knowledge about Islam, a complete disregard for anyone’s opinion when it differs from yours.
‘Religious’ rejection of Darwinism isn’t as straightforward as you seem to think and a lot of the scientific knowledge in this world came from men and women with strong religious convictions- it’s not your place to judge what is and isn’t compatible.
and Cassidy- in your tireless efforts to defend anything and everything Israel does and denigrate Palestinians and disregard their suffering- have you considered visiting the OPTs? Maybe the you might actually get some perspective and quit using Zionist propaganda as the unquestionable truth.
January 17th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
“or you to call anyone a bigot is just so beyond hypocritical when you make statements about ‘invisble men in the sky caring about what women wear’. You have zero knowledge about Islam, a complete disregard for anyone’s opinion when it differs from yours.”
How was that bigoted? It’s the simple truth; religion is an absurdity incompatible with science.
“Religious’ rejection of Darwinism isn’t as straightforward as you seem to think and a lot of the scientific knowledge in this world came from men and women with strong religious convictions- it’s not your place to judge what is and isn’t compatible.”
True very true; but those men and women achieved what they did in spite of religion; not because it, crediting scientific achievements to a religion is ludicrous.
“Maybe the you might actually get some perspective and quit using Zionist propaganda as the unquestionable truth.”
And provide with a few examples of this alleged ‘propaganda’.
January 17th, 2010 at 11:04 pm
@ Cassidy:
the science and religion thing is definitly an interesting claim. I can’t rly agree or disagree as I don’t know much in the subject but I completly reject evolution. Without religion I can’t imagine life. Can u gimme examples of science being incompatible with religion?
January 18th, 2010 at 4:01 am
It was bigoted- religion is not incompatible with science….science has yet to prove God doesn’t exist…I won’t hold my breath.
The only time religion and science clash is when it comes to evolution or how the world came about- things even scientists argue about.
How exactly does religion stop someone ‘believing’ in gravity? or medical advancements? or astronomy? It doesn’t.
No you can’t credit scientific achievements to religion- except for the fact that it was a part of the people who made those achievements either in motivation or inspiration…and considering all the phDs I know are Muslim females all in the field of science who would credit their achievements to God…your statement is yet another example of your own assumptions and prejudice.
That statement is offensive and elitist…yes, because the white western men tell us our beliefs are incompatible with their science and technology they have a right to dominate and ridicule us, ignore our achievements and deny our history and contributions because we must be ‘backward’ and ‘anti modern’ to have faith in something science can’t rationlise and caegorise (mostly in eurocentric terms and notions)
And oh please- the ADL?! They are rabidly pro Israel and have accused anyone even slightly fair towards the Palestinians of being ‘anti-semitic’. I’m sure you put a lot of stock in CAMERA or MEMRI too!
January 18th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
Seffi and Imad, you’re abetting Cassidy, in leading threads of topic, ignore this troll please
Cassidy, it’s time for you to explain why you post here. You’ve tried various techniques, deceiving and pretending, but you must be motivated by something to spend so much time obsessively posting here where nobody likes you, and most see you as a prize irritant and an unwelcome distraction.
Why do you post here?
January 18th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
@Seffi
“It was bigoted- religion is not incompatible with science….”
No it’s simply a factual statement; religion is based on faith, science is based on the scientific method, now does that mean that religious people are stupid? Of course not.
science has yet to prove God doesn’t exist…I won’t hold my breath.”
That’s kind of my point; religion basically says “God exists take our word for it” science on the other hand demands evidence, proof etc.
“How exactly does religion stop someone ‘believing’ in gravity? or medical advancements? or astronomy? It doesn’t.”
As I stated above, I’m not claiming that religious people are stupid, however what happens if a scientist who happens to be religious discovers something that contradicts his or her faith?
“That statement is offensive and elitist…yes, because the white western men tell us our beliefs are incompatible with their science and technology they have a right to dominate and ridicule us”
Oh please don’t try to drag race into this; my comment isn’t just about islam, there are people with religious agendas who try to credit all European and American achievements to Christianity, which irritates me, remember I’m talking about religion in general.
January 18th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
@ nabeela
I try to be open minded and Cassidy seems to make a good point. Like I said I can’t nessecarily agree or disagree, but I wanna hear her side of the argument.
January 20th, 2010 at 2:35 am
I am certainly willing to debate Cassidy any time, but for the record I disagree with a lot of the material from Walt and Mearsheimer.
I use the term Israel lobby for convenience, but the Israel lobby is not a lobby in any conventional sense. It is the public face of the Zionist Virtual Colonial Motherland or Judonia, which is natural development of Jewish political economic history just 19th century Polonia was a natural development of Polish political economic history.
Here are three links that are a gentle introduction to historical Jewish political economics:
Not Just an Ordinary Lobby
Martillo’s Three Hypotheses Plus One
Introduction: Jewish Historical Political Economics
While I feel sympathy for Palestinians, my main concerns lie in Jewish studies and the damage that the Zionist Imperial System is doing to the USA.
I have to make an additional comment. While I am not a specialist in Ottomoan slavery or the associated Islamic law, I have attended Hebrew University seminars given by experts in the fields and have some possibly relevant blog entries that allude to the complexity of the issue in the context of Jewish and Islamic studies:
Origins of Modern Jewry
Modern Identity Creates Ancient Origins