Angus Macleay
If the words “Christianity” were replaced with “Islam,” Robert Spencer would be saying how all of this is confirmed by the Quran, blah blah blah. However would he be brave enough to say that what this English priest is saying is confirmed by the Bible?
Just imagine if a Muslim Imam had said that?
A British pastor offended his parishioners by encouraging women to “be silent” and “submit” to their husbands, The Sun reported Saturday.
Church of England reverend Angus MacLeay issued a leaflet to churchgoers saying that women should not speak if questions could be answered by their husbands.
The leaflet, entitled The Role of Women in the Local Church, adds that wives should “submit to their husbands in everything.”
It continues, “Wives are to submit to their husbands in everything in recognition of the fact that husbands are head of the family as Christ is head of the church.
“This is the way God has ordered their relationships with each other and Christian marriage cannot function well without it.”
Dozens of women canceled their membership at St. Nicholas Church in Kent, England, where married MacLeay is rector after the leaflet was handed out.
Last Sunday, the curate at the same church delivered a medieval-style sermon called Marriage and Women, telling women to submit to their husbands to make marriage work.
Reverend Mark Oden, a married father-of-three, told the congregation, “We know marriage is not working.
“We only need to look at figures – one in four children has divorced parents. Wives, submit to your own husbands.”
During the sermon, Rev. Oden also blamed “modern woman” for the high divorce rates in the U.K.
One female member of the church said she was “disgusted” by the sermon and will no longer be attending that church, adding, “How can they talk that way in the 21st Century?
“No wonder the church is losing touch if this is the kind of gobbledegook they want us to believe in.”
February 16th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Wow, well you wont really hear about this from the MSM.
February 17th, 2010 at 3:48 am
Apart from in The Sun. I gather that’s fairly mainstream.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:09 am
“What if he were muslim?” Well, it wouldn’t be news, would it?
February 18th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Of course, the point is that the preacher was being very orthodox and ‘Biblical’ in everything he said. This subject of wives being subject to their husbands was staple fare in the fundamentalist churches in which I was raised. Every one of the statements by this preacher is almost a direct quotation from the Christian Apostles Paul and Peter. For instance, Paul in Colossians 3:18 said: “Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord”. In Ephesians 5:22-33, Paul expanded on the idea, explaining (just as this preacher did) that the wife’s submission to her husband represents the Church’s submission to Christ. Peter (in 1 Peter 3:1-6) traced the obligation of the wife to submit back to the time of Abraham, when Sarah was subject to Abraham and called him ‘lord’.
What is not made clear in the article is that each time one of the ‘apostles’ told the wife to be submissive to her husband, he immediately followed it with the command to the husband to love his wife and treat her with respect. For instance in Colossians 3:19 Paul says: “Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them”. In Ephesians 5, while the wife is to submit to her husband as the church is submissive to Christ, the husband is to love his wife and cherish her just as Christ loves and cherishes the church. Peter, in 1 Peter 3:7 puts it this way: “Likewise you husbands, live CONSIDERATELY with your wives, bestowing HONOR on the woman as the weaker sex, since you are JOINT HEIRS of the grace of life, in order that your prayers may not be hindered”. The article doesn’t say whether or not the Church of England preacher was careful to maintain this balance.
I don’t know enough about the Quran and the sunnah to know whether or not the Muslim wives were ever told to ‘submit’ to their husbands; I’m still very much in the process of learning. What I have seen makes it very clear though that the Islamic faith does not permit women to be treated as ‘second class citizens’, and that they are considered essentially equals of the men – pretty much the same as when Peter said that the wives are “joint heirs of the grace of life”. Perhaps someone here can help me out on the Quranic teaching on the relationship between men and women – or give me some links as to where I can go to find that information. Thanks, and I hope I’m not giving the impression that I’m being a “Christian preacher” in this comment. Peace be on you all.
I’m sure. though, that it is quite correct that people like Spencer and Geller would have a field day if that had been a Muslim man saying wives should be submissive to their husbands.
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:56 pm
I appreciate some non-Muslims/Christians being honest and fair with their comments with their comments – we don’t need to add fuel to the fire of the extreme right wing minorities who are praying for and trying to strive for an armageddon.
February 28th, 2010 at 5:09 am
… a simple quote by a muslim cleric (a very representative one) is banned on this forum. So much for “open debate”…
February 28th, 2010 at 10:12 am
Leo
what are you talking about ? Or are you trying to suggest a none exsisting quote had been censored? Then you try to claim this site is biased?
nice try but no prize this week
March 1st, 2010 at 8:34 am
@ Leo:
there are many hateful commentors on this site, and some of then use the Quran and Hadith to justify their views. I doubt u ever submitted a comment in the first place. Shouldn’t this very represantative scholar u quote have a name?
April 10th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
Bill Lussenheide candidate for congress ca-45 running on a religious platform..would like to send us all back to the 1700′s!! Conspiracy loon,
and former cultist…beware Inland…trys to con people.
May 29th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
disgusting pathetic and insulting that this guy even said this.
January 15th, 2011 at 10:57 pm
Just imagine if a Muslim Imam had said that?A British pastor offended his parishioners by encouraging women to
January 15th, 2011 at 11:34 pm
Just imagine if a Muslim Imam had said that?A British pastor offended his parishioners by encouraging women to
June 4th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Just imagine if a Muslim Imam had said that?A British pastor offended his parishioners by encouraging women to