Recently a case regarding a 19 year old Somali-American accused of attempting to blow up a Christmas event in Oregon has garnered national attention. The arrest fits a familiar pattern in which individuals are encouraged, supported and financed by the FBI to detonate bombs. Did the FBI stay within their limits when pursuing the Somali-American, or did they cross over the boundary into entrapment?
Glenn Greenwald has an excellent piece that questions this arrest and highlights for the umpteenth time the motive behind these “attacks,” a motive that is obfuscated quite often by politicians, the media and anti-Muslim activists.
These individuals aren’t, (as the Robert Spencer’s of the world proclaim) randomly convinced to blow up things because of some religious prescription/motivation, they are motivated by “occupations” and aggression against Muslims and Muslim countries! (Note to the FBI: Spencer is not going to tell you that when he is training your gumshoe detectives)
Time and time again the statements of these misguided individuals speak towards the reality that “It’s the occupation stupid!” but the Cassandra cries of Glenn Greenwald and those like him are willfully ignored and marginalized and so the fear-mongering, exploitation and violence against innocents continues unabated.
The FBI successfully thwarts its own Terrorist plot
(Salon.com)
by Glenn Greenwald
The FBI is obviously quite pleased with itself over its arrest of a 19-year-old Somali-American, Mohamed Osman Mohamud, who — with months of encouragement, support and money from the FBI’s own undercover agents — allegedly attempted to detonate a bomb at a crowded Christmas event in Portland, Oregon. Media accounts are almost uniformly trumpeting this event exactly as the FBI describes it. Loyalists of both parties are doing the same, with Democratic Party commentators proclaiming that this proves how great and effective Democrats are at stopping The Evil Terrorists, while right-wing polemicists point to this arrest as yet more proof that those menacing Muslims sure are violent and dangerous.
What’s missing from all of these celebrations is an iota of questioning or skepticism. All of the information about this episode — all of it — comes exclusively from an FBI affidavit filed in connection with a Criminal Complaint against Mohamud. As shocking and upsetting as this may be to some, FBI claims are sometimes one-sided, unreliable and even untrue, especially when such claims — as here — are uncorroborated and unexamined. That’s why we have what we call “trials” before assuming guilt or even before believing that we know what happened: because the government doesn’t always tell the complete truth, because they often skew reality, because things often look much different once the accused is permitted to present his own facts and subject the government’s claims to scrutiny. The FBI affidavit — as well as whatever its agents are whispering into the ears of reporters — contains only those facts the FBI chose to include, but omits the ones it chose to exclude. And even the “facts” that are included are merely assertions at this point and thus may not be facts at all.
It may very well be that the FBI successfully and within legal limits arrested a dangerous criminal intent on carrying out a serious Terrorist plot that would have killed many innocent people, in which case they deserve praise. Court-approved surveillance and use of undercover agents to infiltrate terrorist plots are legitimate tactics when used in accordance with the law.
But it may also just as easily be the case that the FBI – as they’ve done many times in the past — found some very young, impressionable, disaffected, hapless, aimless, inept loner; created a plot it then persuaded/manipulated/entrapped him to join, essentially turning him into a Terrorist; and then patted itself on the back once it arrested him for having thwarted a “Terrorist plot” which, from start to finish, was entirely the FBI’s own concoction. Having stopped a plot which it itself manufactured, the FBI then publicly touts — and an uncritical media amplifies — its “success” to the world, thus proving both that domestic Terrorism from Muslims is a serious threat and the Government’s vast surveillance powers — current and future new ones — are necessary.
There are numerous claims here that merit further scrutiny and questioning. First, the FBI was monitoring the email communications of this American citizen on U.S. soil for months (at least) with what appears to be the flimsiest basis: namely, that he was in email communication with someone in Northwest Pakistan, “an area known to harbor terrorists” (para. 5 of the FBI Affidavit). Is that enough to obtain court approval to eavesdrop on someone’s calls and emails? I’m glad the FBI is only eavesdropping with court approval, if that’s true, but certainly more should be required for judicial authorization than that. Communicating with someone in Northwest Pakistan is hardly reasonable grounds for suspicion.
Second, in order not to be found to have entrapped someone into committing a crime, law enforcement agents want to be able to prove that, in the 1992 words of the Supreme Court, the accused was “was independently predisposed to commit the crime for which he was arrested.” To prove that, undercover agents are often careful to stress that the accused has multiple choices, and they then induce him into choosing with his own volition to commit the crime. In this case, that was achieved by the undercover FBI agent’s allegedly advising Mohamud that there were at least five ways he could serve the cause of Islam (including by praying, studying engineering, raising funds to send overseas, or becoming “operational”), and Mohamud replied he wanted to “be operational” by using exploding a bomb (para. 35-37).
But strangely, while all other conversations with Mohamud which the FBI summarizes were (according to the affidavit) recorded by numerous recording devices, this conversation — the crucial one for negating Mohamud’s entrapment defense — was not. That’s because, according to the FBI, the undercover agent ”was equipped with audio equipment to record the meeting. However, due to technical problems, the meeting was not recorded“ (para. 37).
Thus, we have only the FBI’s word, and only its version, for what was said during this crucial — potentially dispositive — conversation. Also strangely: the original New York Times article on this story described this conversation at some length and reported the fact that “that meeting was not recorded due to a technical difficulty,” but the final version omitted that, instead simply repeating the FBI’s story as though it were fact: ”undercover agents in Mr. Mohamud’s case offered him several nonfatal ways to serve his cause, including mere prayer. But he told the agents he wanted to be ‘operational,’ and perhaps execute a car bombing.”
Third, there are ample facts that call into question whether Mohamud’s actions were driven by the FBI’s manipulation and pressure rather than his own predisposition to commit a crime. In June, he attempted to fly to Alaska in order to work on a fishing job he obtained through a friend, but he was on the Government’s no-fly list. That caused the FBI to question him at the airport and then bar him from flying to Alaska, and thus prevented him from earning income with this job (para. 25). Having prevented him from working, the money the FBI then pumped him with — including almost $3,000 in cash for him to rent his own apartment (para. 61) — surely helped make him receptive to their suggestions and influence. And every other step taken to perpetrate this plot — from planning its placement to assembling the materials to constructing the bomb — was all done at the FBI’s behest and with its indispensable support and direction.
It’s impossible to conceive of Mohamud having achieved anything on his own. Before being ensnared by the FBI, the only tangible action he had taken was to write three articles on “fitness and jihad” for the online magazine Jihad Recollections. At least based on what is known, he had no history of violence, no apparent criminal record, had never been to a training camp in Afghanistan, Pakistan or anywhere else, and — before meeting the FBI — had never taken a single step toward harming anyone. Does that sound like some menacing sleeper Terrorist to you?
Finally, there is, as usual, no discussion whatsoever in media accounts of motive. There are several statements attributed to Mohamud by the Affidavit that should be repellent to any decent person, including complete apathy — even delight — at the prospect that this bomb would kill innocent people, including children. What would drive a 19-year-old American citizen — living in the U.S. since the age of 3 — to that level of sociopathic indifference? He explained it himself in several passages quoted by the FBI, and — if it weren’t for the virtual media blackout of this issue — this line of reasoning would be extremely familiar to Americans by now (para. 45):
Undercover FBI Agent: You know there’s gonna be a lot of children there?
Mohamud: Yeah, I know, that’s what I’m looking for.
Undercover FBI Agent: For kids?
Mohamud: No, just for, in general a huge mass that will, like for them you know to be attacked in their own element with their families celebrating the holidays. And then for later to be saying, this was them for you to refrain from killing our children, women . . . . so when they hear all these families were killed in such a city, they’ll say you know what your actions, you know they will stop, you know. And it’s not fair that they should do that to people and not feeling it.
And here’s what he allegedly said in a video he made shortly before he thought he would be detonating the bomb (para. 80):
We hear the same exact thing over and over and over from accused Terrorists — that they are attempting to carry out plots in retaliation for past and ongoing American violence against Muslim civilians and to deter such future acts. Here we find one of the great mysteries in American political culture: that the U.S. Government dispatches its military all over the world — invading, occupying, and bombing multiple Muslim countries — torturing them, imprisoning them without charges, shooting them up at checkpoints, sending remote-controlled drones to explode their homes, imposing sanctions that starve hundreds of thousands of children to death — and Americans are then baffled when some Muslims — an amazingly small percentage — harbor anger and vengeance toward them and want to return the violence. And here we also find the greatest myth in American political discourse: that engaging in all of that military aggression somehow constitutes Staying Safe and combating Terrorism — rather than doing more than any single other cause to provoke, sustain and fuel Terrorism.
UPDATE: A very similar thing happened last month when the FBI announced that it had arrested someone who was planning to bomb the DC Metro system when, in reality, “the only plotting he did was in response to instructions from federal agents he thought were accomplices.” That concocted FBI plot then led to the Metro Police announcing a new policy of random searches of passengers’ bags.
Meanwhile, in Oregon, the mosque sometimes attended by Mohamud wasvictimized today by arson. So the FBI did not stop any actual Terrorist plots, but they may have helped inspire one.
November 29th, 2010 at 10:14 am
It still doesn’t change the fact that the Muslim community needs to do a lot more in order to prevent idiots like this dumb kid from ruining it for the rest of us.
The kid was determined to murder innocent civilians, including children in which he expressed absolutely no concern for. If the FBI didn’t get involved, someone else would have, and how would Greenwald feel if he was successful in killing civilians? Sure occupation and foreign policy are major factors, but according to his recent article he wrote about “jihad-fitness”, he also felt disdain over mixed gyms, music, and anything that had to do with the West. He also stated people falling from the towers on 9/11 was “awesome”, do any of us not find anything wrong with the crap he is spewing?
Instead of us Muslims acting like victims, how about we do more to make sure dumb kids like this one do not take matters into their own hands and make matters worse for us? We do a much better job of giving ammunition to Islamophobes for crying out loud.
November 29th, 2010 at 10:18 am
Excellent article. While it may be that the individual arrested was dangerous, I am a bit more than slightly cynical about the whole thing. Sting operations are notoriously difficult to keep from becoming entrapment.
Should we arrest people for bad thoughts, when our own law enforcement feeds the delusion that they can act upon those thoughts?
November 29th, 2010 at 10:54 am
This kid is not technically a minor, but anyone who is vulnerable at this impressionable age will trust adults who ‘seem’ to help/guide/direct him. Vulnerable kids at this age will listen to someone who helps them get an apartment, much less just befriend them and show concern. The FBI was an accomplice in this case then? The FBI does not have a lily white track record when wanting to target certain groups… be it blacks or now Muslims.
And of course we in general have stopped thinking in all matters relating to Muslims.
November 29th, 2010 at 11:12 am
There are probably thousands of people who have such a hatred of the US that they wouldn’t mind being involved in so,something like this. But, this man, like the other people, would not have tried this if it hadn’t been for the FBI. He may have had the drive to do it but without the FBI’s money or their bomb, this guy would have just gotten a job, had a family and kids and forget about his extremism as a student.
We all did weird things during our teen years and dreamed of doing even worse things, but like everyone else, we move on and grow up. This guy would have grown out of this ‘let’s kill their people cos they kill our people’ phase but thanks to the FBI, he acted on his desire and will probably spend the rest of his life in jail.
November 29th, 2010 at 11:28 am
Teenagers are essentially Jackasses that do not know their front end from their rear. How is the FBI any different from Omar Khadr’s extremist father who put a weapon in the hands of an impressionable boy and asked him to fight? If this guy (Mohamed) had any extremist leanings, why not arrest and convict him based on available evidence instead of encouraging and schooling him to commit bigger crimes? I would like to know if he possessed weapons or was in the process of procuring them before the FBI started schooling him?
Dan – I understand your point. But when I look back at the stupid things I did when I was a teenager – I am surprised that I am still alive with all my limbs intact. My parents don’t know the half of it too. Now I have kids of my own and almost get a laugh out of telling them to avoid all the things that I had fun doing
But I would be extremely pissed off if I learned that someone was using their innate inexperience to entrap them. Parents have a tough time as it is trying to raise their kids properly without having these government thugs with tons of resources trying to snare them.
November 29th, 2010 at 11:59 am
Delenda est Mecca
November 29th, 2010 at 11:59 am
“It still doesn’t change the fact that the Muslim community needs to do a lot more in order to prevent idiots like this dumb kid from ruining it for the rest of us.”
Yet one more federally manufactured “terrorist” conspiracy. It’s so much easier to create a crime and “solve” it than to use traditional police work to apprehend real criminals. Use of confidential informants and so-called “stings” were features of Stalinist Russia’s NKVD and later the KGB and Hitler’s German GESTAPO. American policing now is most regrettably relying on same policies.
The FBI is a terrorist organization. FBI, CIA, NSA spend 99% of their time setting up ways to justify their own existence. Oversight is impossible when these agencies’ raison d’etre is to deceive.
The non-Muslim community needs to do more in keeping it’s crooked “intelligence” agencies accountable. This is like OJ looking for Nicole’s killer. The timing is perfect, right after the TSA was on the defensive for 2 weeks.
Note, if someone is trying to sell you an rocket launcer in a Walmart parking lot, chances are it’s one of the alphabet soup agencies. Walk away.
November 29th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
what does this eternal idiot guy mean, delenda est Mecca? It’s plain for everyone to see, with that kind of unintelligent statement such guys only disqualify themselves and show themselves to be the evil morons they are.
And don’t bother answering back!
November 29th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Did any of you morons ever cry entrapment when that Christian anti-abortionist was arrested a month or so ago?
November 29th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
But was there a case for entrapment bob? As this stands, his case for entrapment from what I can see is very strong.
November 29th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
I don’t know. Glenn Greenwald never came to Justin Carl Moose’s heroic defense like he has for Muslim terrorists, who openly cite the text and teachings of Islam for justification and motivation of their terror plots.
The article does say Moose met up with an FBI agent, but again, I wasn’t complaining about entrapment back when he was arrested, just pointing out that Muslims and Leftists seem to have forgotten about their convenient excuses they have in store whenever Muslims in the West are arrested for terrorism related incidents (which happens much more often than for Christian extremists, for some reason).
Then again, Glenn Greenwald has never condemned the OIC, President Obama or the UN for stifling free speech by criminalizing speech that is insensitive to Muslims.
Funny that.
Useful idiots, the lot ‘em.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Thanks for the good article by Glenn Greenwald, and the comments. I’m glad I’m not the only person seeing through the antics of the FBI and other “Intelligence Agencies”.
If the FBI was really interested in national security and wanted to ‘infiltrate’ terrorist organizations, why aren’t the agents pretending to be angry young people like Mohamed Mohamud, seeking organized help in carrying out “jihad”? Then they might actually be able to infiltrate and destroy the whole organization (or at least an entire ‘cell’) rather than simply entrapping one individual. If angry Muslims are so prone to form terrorist organizations, why do the FBI and CIA need to set up fake organizations rather than infiltrating the existing ones?
But as is evident in this case, the US Intelligence organizations have their own agenda to pursue: entrap angry and impressionable young people in order to actually set up “terrorist” incidents – so they can give the government further excuse to create and enforce tyrannical laws “for national security”, keep up public support for our aggressive wars in Muslim countries, and keep up support for our undying allegiance to Zionist Israel. (And that’s not meant as an “anti-Jewish” statement, because there are plenty of Jews who have no love for Zionism and the “Jewish state” of Israel).
November 29th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
First-retaliating the Mosque is wrong-period. Second-I agree with the poster who said that people need better outreach programs so that people like him won’t consider doing this, FBI or not.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
I meant AGAINST the Mosque
November 29th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Where does he defend what this guy did? I don’t see it, do you? And if you don’t know then I suggest that, against your normal behavior, you research the case of Moose rather than make empty statements.
As for the arrests of ‘more’ Muslims that is debatable, we have already seen the FBI files, as displayed on this site, that suggest the opposite. All that is different is how they are reported, with the media’s standing against Muslims at this moment in time, Muslim getting arrested is much better at selling newspapers than Christian being arrested. As I said, the FBI files show a different story to that in the media. There is also the fact that whereas Muslim extremists tend to be given up by other Muslims, there are many cases of non cooperation on the half of people who know Christian extremists. And regarding your comment on Muslim extremists openly citing Muslim texts, need I remind you that Christian extremists do exactly the same. As I’ve said before, we all have nutters, stand against them which again is something you appear to have failed to do on a number of occasions, not one peep from you over Mr Pork’s junk for example.
As for Greenwald and your o so serious piece of legislation, just drop it. We had that conversation a number of times, you slinked out. Once you back out of something, we take it as you can’t support your points. Yes, he indeed is useful, an idiot he is not though. But of course, I forgot that you, bob, as world expert on Islam, are superior to the lot of us on this issue. Please excuse my infringement on your ground.
Peace Be Upon You.
November 29th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
I dont recall a case where the Fbi recruted urged the abortion Dr killers to attack hospitals and tell them they will back them with money and tools needed and just in time stop them in this case and other JB that is what happend ….Please look up the definition of the term before you start a argument and take your foil hat off there is no conspericy
November 29th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
The Fbi is creating the problem and then busting the guy and takeing credit for the bust. That is the diffrence between Justin Carl Moose case and this case and Moose’s anger were abortion doctors, President Barack Obama’s health care plan, and the plans to build the so-called Ground Zero Mosque in New York City he sound like one of your brothers to me
November 29th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
So if end the occupation of Iraq, and let the Sunnis and Shia’s slaughter each other, and leave Afganistan to the Taliban, and let the Somali warlords finish up, and let the slaughter continue in Yemen, then the terrorist problem would be solved?
November 29th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
@Buck – how do your comments address the issue being discussed?
November 29th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
So if end the occupation of Iraq, and let the Sunnis and Shia’s slaughter each other, and leave Afganistan to the Taliban, and let the Somali warlords finish up, and let the slaughter continue in Yemen, then the terrorist problem would be solved?
Of course it would, it wasn’t until the invasion of Iraq that the world witnessed the emergence of the global Jihad movement.
Of course, if anyone wants these attacks against Mosques to end, which I fully condemn, then Muslims living in the West should stop trying to blow us up. Simple as that, really.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
The so-called global Jihad movement emerged after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the Iranian Revolution—which was basically a reaction to Operation Ajax and the secular dictatorship of the Shah. As for Bin Laden, he wants non-Muslim nations completely out of Muslim-majority countries, namely Saudi Arabia. It was the United States’ presence in the Gulf that originally miffed him off.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
I know we are angry because of the invasions, killings by neo-imperialist westernofascist(i made this word just like they made the word islamofascist) but theseacts bring way too many harm than good. Now they are gonna have this 19 year olds face in front of TIME magazine and basically use it as propaganda.
I will urge every Muslim here/everywhere to never participate in any such activity. Instead we should use the mightiest weapon, which is the pen. Just get educated, excel in every way you can, lobby for real change. Do positive things in your community, to better humanity.
November 29th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
@Syed – “We all did weird things during our teen years and dreamed of doing even worse things, but like everyone else, we move on and grow up. This guy would have grown out of this ‘let’s kill their people cos they kill our people’ phase but thanks to the FBI, he acted on his desire and will probably spend the rest of his life in jail.”
I’m 26 and never once did I have fantasies of blowing up a mall full of innocent people just because they have a “decadent” lifestyle, which is what a lot of these wannabe jihadis believe. It’s as much of a hatred of Western culture as much as the occupations and illegal invasions which tick them off. How many teenagers you know that thought the 9/11 attacks were “awesome”? How can any sane Muslim, let alone human, state that was “awesome”? What teenager would have complete disregard for the safety of children out of revenge? Remember what happened in Beslan 6 years ago?
I see what you’re saying Syed but I don’t believe this applies in this case.
And because of his actions, normal Muslims often have to pay the price.
November 29th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
FXG: I was addressing Buck, not giving a reason for Mohamud’s actions. There’s no condoning his stupid mistakes.
Buck: You do realize that rates of violence between Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq have been becoming increasingly lower? (At least, that’s what I’ve heard). As for the other three countries, they’ve definitely had better days.
Anyways, you should know that the folks at Jihadwatch openly support violence between Sunni and Shiites, just check out some of Hugh Fitzgerald’s vitriolic writings.
November 29th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
@JihadBob
http://www.defendtheprophet.com/deviant-theology-of-violent-extremists/
“Recent cases of young people engaging in violent extremism clearly show they have not learned Islam from respected, well-known Muslim scholars. Instead they have learned a deviant theology through the Internet, often from Western-born hate preachers adept at misusing their knowledge of our society. These hate preachers claim that genuine Islamic scholars are not credible, and actively try to invalidate their teachings by completely distorting both the message and the way it is communicated.”
November 29th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
JihadBob, I think you should read Osama Bin Laden’s 1998 Fatwa. This was before the Iraq War, but he has plenty of reasons to hate America anyway:
Question: What do you seek?
Osama bin Ladin: What I seek is what is right for any living being. We demand that our land be liberated from enemies. That our lands be liberated from the Americans. These living beings have been given an inner sense that rejects any intrusions [of their lands] by outsiders.
Let us take an example of poultry. Let us look at a chicken, for example. If an armed person was to enter a chicken’s home with the aim of inflicting harm to it, the chicken would automatically fight back.
http://www.representativepress.org/1998Fatwa.html
November 29th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
“Contrary to what [President George W.] Bush says and claims — that we hate freedom –let him tell us then, “Why did we not attack Sweden?” It is known that those who hate freedom don’t have souls with integrity, like the souls of those 19. May the mercy of God be upon them.
We fought with you because we are free, and we don’t put up with transgressions. We want to reclaim our nation. As you spoil our security, we will do so to you.
I wonder about you. Although we are ushering the fourth year after 9/11, Bush is still exercising confusion and misleading you and not telling you the true reason. Therefore, the motivations are still there for what happened to be repeated.
And I will talk to you about the reason for those events, and I will be honest with you about the moments the decision was made so that you can ponder. And I tell you, God only knows, that we never had the intentions to destroy the towers.
But after the injustice was so much and we saw transgressions and the coalition between Americans and the Israelis against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it occurred to my mind that we deal with the towers. And these special events that directly and personally affected me go back to 1982 and what happened when America gave permission for Israel to invade Lebanon. And assistance was given by the American sixth fleet.
During those crucial moments, my mind was thinking about many things that are hard to describe. But they produced a feeling to refuse and reject injustice, and I had determination to punish the transgressors.
And as I was looking at those towers that were destroyed in Lebanon, it occurred to me that we have to punish the transgressor with the same — and that we had to destroy the towers in America so that they taste what we tasted, and they stop killing our women and children.”
Why don’t we attack Sweden?. Lol.
November 29th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
“We agreed with the leader of the group, Mohammed Atta, to perform all attacks within 20 minutes before [President George W.] Bush and his administration were aware of what was going on. And we never knew that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would leave 50,000 of his people in the two towers to “face those events by themselves when they were in the most urgent need of their leader.
He was more interested in listening to the child’s story about the goat rather than worry about what was happening to the towers. So, we had three times the time necessary to accomplish the events.
Your security is not in the hands of [Democratic presidential nominee John] Kerry or Bush or al Qaeda. Your security is in your own hands. Any nation that does not attack us will not be attacked.”
More interested in goats than saving his people. Lol.
November 29th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
@Dan – LOL… Mosizzle wrote that – not me! Mosizzle did it again! The loons at JW will use that quote till eternity as proof that Muslim teenagers dream of doing unmentionable evil.
November 29th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
jihadwatch, in their never ending display of police blotter scholarship, is all over this story, jumping to conclusions as usual
Allahu A’lam
November 29th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
I never said I dreamed of blowing up people during my teens…I was making a point that without FBI help, this man would have grown up and moved on…
November 29th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
I was making a point that without FBI help, this man would have grown up and moved on…
LoL.
If only the government were as good at getting Americans to pay their income taxes as they are at getting a Muslim to want to blow himself up and kill his fellow citizens…
November 29th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Oh well, at least this time you didn’t take his comment out of context.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:58 pm
Jihadbob….take something out of context?? Whatchu takin bout Dawood.
Jihadbob would love to discuss the global jihad movement….except w/ Danios.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
Lol Jawad!
November 30th, 2010 at 12:44 am
CAIR Asks FBI to Probe Attack on Calif. Sikh Mistaken for Muslim
Cabbie called ‘Osama Bin Laden,’ believes turban prompted bias assault
(SACRAMENTO, CA, 11/29/10) — The Sacramento Valley chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-SV) today called on the FBI to investigate a possible bias motive for an attack on a Sikh taxi driver who was attacked after apparently being mistaken for a Muslim.
CAIR-SV reported that the driver was severely injured after being attacked early Sunday by two men he picked up in his taxi. He reportedly told his attackers, “I’m not Muslim.” One of the attackers allegedly shouted expletives and called the driver “Osama Bin Laden,” in apparent reference to the turban worn by Sikh men
November 30th, 2010 at 12:56 am
That’s very sad.
The same thing has happened in many places, sadly.
November 30th, 2010 at 5:41 am
Seems like the kind of maneuver the East German Stasi (or Tito’s UDBA) liked to do: chat up some guy and try to provoke him into making some antigovernmental statement or comment and then arrest him and charge him with subversion.
November 30th, 2010 at 6:18 am
Altyhough Glenn Greenwald has proven in past cases,involving possible violation of the laws of the land what he wrote about them based on his own investigations was correct and what his opponents wrote was wrong,one must admit that the damage has been done by a foolish kid.
However,accepting Glenn Greenwald’s investigations and his conclusion about the FBI,one is compelled to raise several questions demanding concrete answers and I raise three of them,off-the-cuff:
~ Who are the FBI agents who were involved in this bizzar tale and what exactly their cultural,political party affiliation and religious belief,if any?
~ Is it possible that the FBI has already been inflitrated by agents who are Anti-Muslims and that was their aim in joining the FBI,in the first place?
~ According to Greenwald,the kid wanted to go to Alaska to work there but could not,because his name was/is listed in the “No Fly List” and hence no airline could accept him and provide him with a flight. The big question from this is: Who had put his name in the “No Fly List”,in the first place,and more importantly,WHY?
At any rate,I agree with Dan: all Muslims in this country should do a better job in raising thair kids before the foolish ones hurt the whole Muslim community. How? it is simple: parents should take their time and teach their young kinds the true tenents of Islam,the essence of Islam and what Islam is really all about: Be compassionate toward,and tolerant of,your fellow human beings.Period.
November 30th, 2010 at 7:20 am
Even though this case borders on entrapment, Portland Muslims are reiterating their position that terrorism is forbidden in Islam:
http://www.defendtheprophet.com/islamic-society-in-carroll-county-condemns-attempted-terrorist-attack-in-portland/
http://www.defendtheprophet.com/portland-muslims-decry-bomb-plot/
November 30th, 2010 at 11:59 am
@Buck – how do your comments address the issue being discussed? Syed
Syed, If you read more carefully, this article makes 2 points, one is:
“We hear the same exact thing over and over and over from accused Terrorists — that they are attempting to carry out plots in retaliation for past and ongoing American violence against Muslim civilians and to deter such future acts”. NassirH then hits the nail on the head with his comment:
“The so-called global Jihad movement emerged after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the Iranian Revolution—which was basically a reaction to Operation Ajax and the secular dictatorship of the Shah. As for Bin Laden, he wants non-Muslim nations completely out of Muslim-majority countries, namely Saudi Arabia. It was the United States’ presence in the Gulf that originally miffed him off.”
Its common knowledge as well that the Taliban (and Al-Quida)will be formed from the CIA’s efforts against the Soviets. After 9/11, the US formally invades. WHat’s done is done. My point is that it is a recurring theme here that if the US packed up and left the middle east, the provocation for terrorism would end. Maybe so but have you thought of what would happen in the short term? The taliban would be back, and maybe in Pakistan. There would be a genocide in Iraq. There would be a civil war in the US backed Saudi Arabia (maybe not a bad idea). It would be BEST for everyone for the US to be out of the middle east, but who’s going to keep the piece in the short term? I don’t see any country from the Muslim block stepping up, although I’m sure Iran would love to spread its influence. I suggest the abandonment of the middle-east by US forces at this time is a simplistic soluton.
The primary point made is there was no crime here and nothing but an FBI entrapment. I don’t know but I don’t it like when so many facts float around before a trial as that does raise the suspicioun of FBI motives. However, if it does turn out that this guy pushed the button with the fully expectation to kill and maim 500 people then I’m glad he’s off the streets.
Lastly, sounds like he was ratted out by his family…
November 30th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
@Buck – I don’t think any action by the US or any other country will be able to get rid of these clueless extremists. The only good that will come out of it will be that these guys will find another ’cause du jour’ to vent their anger on and hopefully will leave the Muslims living here in peace. The US has not and will never be able to solve the underlying problems of this region through armed conflict – they just make more enemies for themselves (some of whom seem hell-bent on taking the fight to the US shores). The problems you mentioned will exist regardless of whether the US pulls out of the region today or 10 years from now.
Some more information on Mohamed Omar from the Agonist blog (I am not sure of its veracity, but it would explain why this guy was on the no-fly list). So the FBI had two years to feed the fire and create the monster that would press the button to kill his people?
BEGIN ^C
1.) The suspect’s father two years ago notified federal authorities that his son was in sympathy with Islamicist terrorists, and even turned over to them his passport, so that he was unable to leave the country.
2.) The young man entered the United States at 3 years of age and had been at odds with his parents for quite some time, since they appreciated the opportunities here much more than he did.
3.) So assimilated are his parents that his mother was present among the crowd celebrating the beginning of the Christmas shopping season while he was engaged in attempting to kill everyone in it.
END ^C
November 30th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
Lets also not mention the fact that his own community refused to help him.
November 30th, 2010 at 7:43 pm
As much as I hate quoting an Islamophobe…I hold my nose and do so anyway because he makes the point very well.
JihadBob wrote this…
“..Did any of you morons ever cry entrapment when that Christian anti-abortionist was arrested a month or so ago?..”
JihadBob.
The murderer of Dr Tiller acted on his own. He obtained the gun, he stalked out the victim, even to the point of going to Mr Tiller’s church and sitting in thier services. He visited other murderers, bombers, religious nuts in jail, had thier literature, and phone numbers. He had encouragement from murderers, religious nuts, bombers, and other evil people.
So there was no entrapment there. However, I belive that if the FBI would have gotten a tip from a concerned person about this murderous religious fanatic, they would have stopped him…not encouraged him.
Although it hurts with a great pain to acknowledge you, and I wish you were banished from this site forever, I just thought I would point that out.
November 30th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
My thinking is this…
Ther really is no excuse for this young man’s behavior. He was wrong, and should be punished for his crime.
For those who claim that this happened ‘because the Muslims need to have things in place to stop the radicalization of people like this’ I take issue.
We know that someone ‘concerned’ about him brought it to the attention of authorities. More than likely it was someone he knew personally…perhaps another Muslim, and more than likely too, it was a family memeber. So, it seems that there was already something in place, had it been utilized for this young man, in that someone was ‘concerned’ about him.
I thought though that it was also a crime to aid, support, equip, fund, encourage, or otherwise a criminal. There are many puzzling things about this young man’s finacial ability to commit the crime on his own. He had no job, and the FBI was paying his rent. So, acting on his own…how would he have means to purchase bomb material?
The FBI agent ‘was in the van with him’. Does this mean the young man drove, or did the FBI agent drive to the scene of the crime? How did the young man obtain the van? Did he buy it? Did the FBI ‘lend it to him”?
It is said that he sent bomb making material through the post. Why isnt he being charged with ‘sending bomb making material through the post’? What did he send? Was it what the FBI told him he would need to make a device, something he didnt know on his own?
You see, it might be a case of entrapment, however there is certianly a co cospirator here.
Remember, even the act of enjoining with someone else to commit a crime is a crime. “the act of conspiring’
A conspiracy is a crime in which 2 or more people agree to commit. Aiding and ‘abedding’ a criminal is giving the criminal the means to commit a crime, and/or sheltering him from the law.
So, if the FBI aided this young man beyond his capability to act on his own, they are co conspirators. It is not a ‘sting’ because in a sting, the offender is not encouraged to commit the crime by the law enforcement.
December 1st, 2010 at 3:40 am
Dan
“Occupation” and “foreign policy” were the excuses not the “major factors” that motivated this warrior for Allah and Islam. Purification from sin and visions of salvation in an afterlife of endless delights is what drove this kid to kill thousands of infidels. The more he would have killed the greater the reward. Maybe Allah would double the number of blissful babes and give him the biggest harem in heaven. Allah can do such things.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:08 am
Its been along time since apollo troll was here. Just get out then ?
Same rubbish as before however. The prison must not have had any new books for a while . Where were we ?
Ah yes this bloke in Portland . A very odd case indeed the trial, if he has a good advocate should make for good reading. I often wonder where the boundry between entrapment and conspiracy lies. Young impressionable people are often the dupes on both sides . Note how the leaders are never the ones to take the risks
December 1st, 2010 at 5:15 am
^ Says the idiot who can’t even spell the name of his own website correctly. Yes your diatribe is taken real seriously. Don’t you have the latest Juice-Jihad to wet your pants over?
December 1st, 2010 at 5:33 am
And also an uncanny fascination with the number 42.
December 1st, 2010 at 6:19 am
Well 42 is the answer to life the universe and everything.
@Douglas Adams in the Hitchhikers guide to the Universe
December 1st, 2010 at 6:31 am
True, and the babelfish would sure be useful to have in our ear to understand loon language, amongst other things.
December 1st, 2010 at 6:46 am
What a pathetic existence, when all you could do with your time is conspiracy theorize about the number 42.
December 1st, 2010 at 11:05 am
I just read about a hate crime done in Oregon b/c of what happened with this kid. A room in the mosque was burned down as a result. so sad!
December 1st, 2010 at 9:36 pm
Khushboo, Portland Muslims should be extremely angry at the stupid kid for facilitating the backlash.
December 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 am
They should be angry at both crimes, Dan.
December 3rd, 2010 at 9:05 pm
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait – you missed it.
Rewind. Look what our resident brother Loon just said.
“Of course, if anyone wants these attacks against Mosques to end, which I fully condemn, then Muslims living in the West should stop trying to blow us up. Simple as that, really”
Wipe eyes. Hey, there is hope.
Yes, surely all normal people want that. Multilateral non-blowing up agreement here we come. Darth Boob, you there?
December 4th, 2010 at 12:13 am
Don’t disagree with you Khushboo but often times a lot of Muslims often take a muted outrage when it comes to idiots like him.
Don’t blame people for their unfavourable reaction to Muslims when there are knuckleheads like this idiot who give them the ability to make our lives miserable. I am sure these suspects are clearly aware of the Hell they could bring to the Muslim community yet they never bother to exonerate these idiots as they often do to other idiots like Asra Nomani or Tarek Fatah.
For God’s sake, I was on an Islamic message board when Faisal Shehzad was convicted, and you know what they said? They said that he was an “imprisoned brother” who needs our support against the “kuffar”! If we have idiot Muslims who sympathize with these people not just out of occupation and foreign policy, but their rabid dislike of Western culture and values, then by what logic can we blame the hosts for being sickened by us?
It’s very easy to rant like a victim than to do something about the extremism that continues to exist amongst a certain minority of Muslims. Seriously, does hating Western society and seeing women not wearing a niqaab give these morons a green light to bomb and murder innocent people?