Categorized | Loon-at-large

46 Comments For This Post

1. mindy1 Says:
   June 23rd, 2011 at 12:39 pm

   Sad that people spend so much energy hating

2. eslaporte Says:
   June 23rd, 2011 at 1:22 pm

   “But all they care about is banning the Niqab? ”

   Yep – and all they care about are “jihadists and Islamists…”

   From looking at some of the European human rights and anti-racism activity on sites connected to UN, EU human rights, the Council of Europe – there appears to be little in the way of addressing Islamophobia and discrimination against Muslim communities ion Europe.

   The acquittal of Geert Wilders for his clearly inciting hate against Muslims (and destroying Dutch culture and national identity) – will wake the lard butts up at the Council of Europe, EU institutions and the United Nations as to the extent of these problems in Europe and the US. The acquittal of Geert Wilders will probably be addressed and condemned at the European Court of Justice — so Wilders’ legal problems are really not over and more can be done against him.

   But its instances like the Wilders trial, along with legal attacks on Muslims’ human rights, the obsession with “jihadists and Islamists” by police and security, and with EU and UN institutions ignoring Islamophobia — that will only make this problem worse. The acquittal of Geert Wilders could be a serious wake-up call as the Wilders’ case works its way up the European courts and UN human rights institutions and leaders in Europe are forced to address this issue.

3. Michael Akkawi Says:
   June 23rd, 2011 at 3:07 pm

   It’s only a matter of years and the world will find another group of people to hate. Maybe after exterminating another 1000,000 Muslim the world will wake up, like it did after the Holocaust, although too late.

   Only God knows who’s next!

4. eslaporte Says:
   June 23rd, 2011 at 5:59 pm

   After the Holocaust – we said, “never again!”
   Did we really mean this?
   I had relatives that fought murderous fascism – we might have to do it again in Western Europe.

   The next Anne Frank will be a Muslim.
   We will have to save Muslims from the gas and ovens!

   Europe still has the very problem that allowed the NSDAP and Hitler to get into power: The problem Europe of W-I-D-E open ballot access and election laws in many European countries that allow just about any flock of loons to get on the ballot as a “political party.”

   The PVV in an example of how a personal hate group can be formed by Wilders and become a “political party.” We also have the BNP in the UK that is a neo-Nazi groups glorified as a “political party.”

   Remember – Hitler’s National Socialist party was successful in the 1932 elections that help put the infamous mass murder into power. Slobodan Milosevic was elected president of Yugoslavia.

   This same rotten condition exists where threshold voting is now not high enough to keep radicals from getting legitimacy (and sometime funding) by just winning a few seats in European or national parliaments.

   The PVV and the BNP – hate groups that they really are – should have NEVER been allowed on the ballots and given legitimacy of legitimate political actors. This legitimacy given to these vile hate groups like the PVV and BNP in turn give legitimacy to their hateful radicalism.

   Putting place some standards for ballot access, such as support for the rights of all groups and not being a threat to the constitutional order (as in Germany), should be a test before “political parties” are given a place on the ballot – and this is the sad lesson Europe has not yet learned, are still in place, from the conditions that lead up to the horrors of the Holocaust.

5. khan4 Says:
   June 23rd, 2011 at 6:11 pm

   When economies go down, racism goes up.

6. Khushboo Says:
   June 23rd, 2011 at 6:33 pm

   ^true dat. When in hardship, people need someone to blame and I guess it’s the Muslims’ turn to be demonized. I pray that it’s just temporary situation and won’t go as far as a Muslim holocaust. I do have hope that majority of us are sane.

7. Persian Says:
   June 23rd, 2011 at 7:05 pm

   Well, its Europe, do you really expect any different? This is the same continent that produced the crusades, the inquisition, black slavery, pogroms, the nazis, the holocaust…i’m sure im missing out a lot.

8. marco Says:
   June 24th, 2011 at 3:20 am

   This is what happens when you spread lies and have people convinced Muslim are taking oover their country and preparing to force shariah on everyone. When you tell people to rise up and fight back – just what the hell do you suppose people do in such a situation?

   Well done Rob Sperncer, Pam Geller. This is entirely the doing of scumbags like you. Of course you’ll wash ur hands of any wrong doing and claim you’re only warning…

9. Ahmed(was called Anonomous) Says:
   June 24th, 2011 at 6:16 am

   I hope this infection of hate does not spread to Down Under and ruin my lovely country…

10. Dan Says:
    June 24th, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    Well not all Muslims in Belgium are innocent anyways. You do have a lot of vocal Muslims in Belgium who are virulently anti-Western and embrace Muslim causes militantly. Why is marco and the rest of the victimizing folks on here ignorant of that? None of you ever bother to look at the root cause of why there is much Islamophobia, especially when there are many Muslims who do give the Islamophobes the ammunition it needs. And people like marco (who think the Taliban are okay in his view) refuse to condemn anti-Western Muslim militants who are part of the problem. Does a certain Muriel Degauque ring a bell to anyone here?

    How about you guys tell Belgian Muslims who embrace extremist causes to stop the hate as well? Or do you guys think it’s okay for Muslims living in Western countries to hate the West while shamelessly living in it?

11. Hatethehaterz Says:
    June 24th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    @Dan: So a few “vocal anti-western” Muslims justify over a hundred cases of discrimmination against other Muslims who are most likely innocent of any vocal anti-western sentiments?

    This is a typical Islamophobic tactic. Blame the victims of hate for the discrimmination and hate against them.

    So judging by the majority of your posts, your basic premise is that Islamophobia and hate and bias crimes against Muslims are completely justified because it is our own fault. Oh and we all have “victimization complex” since a Muslim can never be a victim. Cuz clearly, its always our own faults. Hmm… Where have I heard this sort of (ill)logic before? Oh yeah, from Muslim haters.

12. Hatethehaterz Says:
    June 24th, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    @Dan: What exactly do you mean by “anti-western Muslim militants?” Are you referring to actual criminals who were or are involved in criminal (extremist) activities? Or simply those who are critical (in a non-violent vocal way) of western foriegn policy? The former should be prosecuted as per the laws of thier nation. The latter, no matter how much you or anyone else may personally disagree with have a right to their free speech.

    Neither of these groups justify discrimination or bias against other Muslims. And why the hell should I or any other Muslim need to apologize for thier actions or opinions in the first place? Are all Christians expected to apologize for or “condemn” their coreligionists who commit crimes or make offensive comments? All Jews? No? This is my country and I am subject to the laws and rights of THIS land. Last time I checked everyone here is INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. There is no guilt by association. So I will only be held responsible for my own actions and my own words. I will not apologize for someone else, because their actions and words are their own. If a co-religionist does something wrong, I will point out that those actions or words do not conform to my faith, nor are they representative of it; but I see no need for me to apologize for someone else’s actions or words – especially if I do not agree with them.

13. Dan Says:
    June 25th, 2011 at 9:44 am

    @hatethehaterz: “@Dan: So a few “vocal anti-western” Muslims justify over a hundred cases of discrimmination against other Muslims who are most likely innocent of any vocal anti-western sentiments?”

    It takes a few bad apples to ruin the bunch, does it not?

    When there are Muslims in Belgium who are unwilling to compromise their rigid interpretation of the Islamic faith, you expect Belgians to love them? When you have protests in Antwerp or Brussels by anti-Western Muslims calling for jihad against the “kuffar” and the involvement of many Belgian Muslims flocking for jihad in Afghanistan, Kashmir, Chechnya, and Somalia, you expect discrimination and prejudice not to occur?

    Face it, stuff like the niqaab is going to make anyone in the West uncomfortable. Period.

    “This is a typical Islamophobic tactic. Blame the victims of hate for the discrimmination and hate against them.”

    No, it’s not. It’s necessary to see one’s own faults instead of pontificating like a little girl. Your refusal to see through that just only shows what a soft spot for militants you have.

    “So judging by the majority of your posts, your basic premise is that Islamophobia and hate and bias crimes against Muslims are completely justified because it is our own fault. Oh and we all have “victimization complex” since a Muslim can never be a victim. Cuz clearly, its always our own faults. Hmm… Where have I heard this sort of (ill)logic before? Oh yeah, from Muslim haters.”

    Well, it’s better to be a Muslim in Belgium than to be a Christian in certain Muslim countries. Time to clean up our own house instead of acting like there is no problem with Muslims in Belgium.

14. RDS Says:
    June 25th, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Dan: Any news source or reference? I knew the Turkish immigrants in Austria were a handful to deal with, but I haven’t heard about the ones in Belgium.

15. IbnAbuTalib Says:
    June 25th, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Dan, do you hold Javed Ahmed Ghamdi, Moiz Amjad and Amin Ahsan Islahi with the same contempt as other Pakistani Muslims?

16. Ahmed(was called Anonomous) Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 12:13 am

    Is Dan two persons?

17. Pascal Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    I have a question. Does Islam really allow sex slavery?

    The fact is that such questions circulate throughout the Internet and there doesn’t seem to be much of a Muslim response to Christian concerns about Christian girls being sold as sex slaves in obedience to Muslim teaching (like what just happened in Egypt).

18. Pascal Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    http://frontpagemag.com/2011/06/23/egypt-christian-girls-kidnapped-and-%E2%80%98sold%E2%80%99/

    Is there a Muslim response to this? I’d dearly like to know. Thanks!

19. Mosizzle Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    “there doesn’t seem to be much of a Muslim response to Christian concerns about Christian girls being sold as sex slaves”

    Here you go, a Muslim response:

    It’s wrong. Kidnapping women and then having sex with them is known as rape and rape is completely forbidden and detested in Islam, to the extent that in earlier times rapists would be stoned to death.

    By the way, nice try making it look like you were genuinely wanting an answer. You gave yourself away by using the Islamophobic Front Page magazine and lying that such actions were “in obedience to Muslim teaching”. As far as I know, Islamic scholars worldwide agree that slavery has been abolished for good and that enslavement that happens by kidnapping (not war) has always been forbidden. In any case, the incident in Egypt is rape and not “slavery”. If the criminals try to defend it as such, then it’s clear they are only using it as an excuse.

20. Pascal Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    “You gave yourself away by using the Islamophobic Front Page magazine and lying that such actions were “in obedience to Muslim teaching”.

    I posted a link to the FrontPage article because that is where I first saw the report about the kidnapping of Christian girls. Just because I happened to read Islamophobic material doesn’t make me an Islamophobe. Come to think of it, if I’m a real Islamophobe then why do I even bother to ask for a Muslim response?

    I also didn’t assert as a fact that women are being kidnapped and raped “in obedience to Islam”; what I said is that there are Christian concerns that such actions are being carried out “in obedience to Islam.” I’ll concede that I wasn’t clear enough, though.

    You know, as a Christian who believes that every side of a story should be aired and given a fair hearing, I genuinely would like to hear more Muslim responses to the relentless reports in the international media about the persecution of Christians in Muslim countries. Unfortunately the attitude of some Muslims seems to be that anyone who asks about these stories is an Islamophobe. Instead of condemning us as Islamophobes, why don’t you acknowledge that there are many Christians who are genuinely bewildered by all the stories about the persecution / rape / torture execution of their fellow Christians in the name of Islam, and who would like to hear more explanations from Muslims as to what is really happening? (Same with the continued burning of churches in Egypt.)

21. Mosizzle Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    “Unfortunately the attitude of some Muslims seems to be that anyone who asks about these stories is an Islamophobe.”

    Errmm…no. Your tone seemed to be quite sarcastic and similar to what other loons who first visit this site do — they post an incident happening somewhere (usually Egypt or Pakistan) and then ask (sarcastically) “Is this a small minority of extremists” or “please explain how this is wrong according to Islam” etc. I assumed (incorectly) that you meant the same. Thanks for clarifying.

    “Instead of condemning us as Islamophobes, why don’t you acknowledge that there are many Christians who are genuinely bewildered by all the stories about the persecution / rape / torture execution of their fellow Christians in the name of Islam,”

    Firstly, I didn’t “condemn” you as an Islamophobe. You yourself said that reading Islamophobic sites doesn’t make you an Islamophobe, so why did you assume I had “condemned” you as an Islamophobe when I only pointed out your use of Islamophobic sites as a source and claim that such things were in accordance with Muslim teaching. I also didn’t deny the existence of such problems in Egypt and neither does anyone on this site (have a look through the archives).

    “who would like to hear more explanations from Muslims as to what is really happening? (Same with the continued burning of churches in Egypt.)”

    Now, you say you have only come on this site demanding a “Muslim response” or a “Muslim explanation”. First of all, you have to understand that Muslims aren’t all collectively responsible for what other Muslims do so I am under no obligation whatsoever to explain what a Muslim that I don’t know has done in a country I have never been to. Sorry, the idea itself is fundamentally wrong. It would be like if I asked you, as a Christian, to explain and defend everything wrong Christians are doing around the world such as in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc. Obviously, you are not related to the people doing those things so I don’t require you to “explain” what is going on.

    However, because Muslims are so disgusted by what is going on and annoyed by the Islamophobes who exploit such tragedies to further their anti-Muslim/anti-Islam agenda that we respond and distance ourselves from the morons responsible. If you are a regular reader of Loonwatch, you will know that people here believe in religious tolerance and are 100% against the extremists and terrorists committing these atrocities in the name of Islam. As for the attacks on Coptic Churches, you will find numerous Muslim “responses”. It is your job to look for them rather than fold your hands and complain that peaceful Muslims remain silent will their extremist brethren terrorise minorities. Here is a response by Ahmed Rehab:

    http://www.ahmedrehab.com/2011/01/a-silver-lining-to-egypts-dark-cloud/

    “This is not just an attack on Copts, this is an attack on me and you and all Egyptians, on Egypt and its history and its symbols, by terrorists who know no God, no patriotism, and no humanity,”
    – Sheikh Ali Gomaa, the Grand Mufti of Egypt.

22. NassirH Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    FrontPageMag is not a reliable source. Hence, they posted the completely fabricated story about Palestinians having a “mass child wedding” in Gaza.

23. JN Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    “Come to think of it, if I’m a real Islamophobe then why do I even bother to ask for a Muslim response? ”

    There are lots of possible reasons. Many Islamophobes come here practicing their own form of taqiyya (which is what they accuse Muslims of without producing any evidence). They feign politeness and curiosity when it’s obvious that they have an underlying agenda.

    It’s not clear if that’s the case with you or not. However, the fact that you cited FrontPage as though it were a serious source doesn’t look very good, Pascal. It’s right-wing propaganda and absolutely meaningless on this issue.

    I think Mosizzle addressed your concern very well – but what next? Is your only interest in trying to force Muslims to explain away all of your “concerns?” Do you really think that that is a formula for any kind of productive and positive dialogue, Pascal?

24. Mosizzle Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    And we were right to suspect FrontPage’s account of the incident. All the other websites on the Internet are spreading around Raymond Ibrahim’s article and there doesn’t seem to be another article corroborating his claims. The author blames the lack of coverage in the English press. This is not true, an English language Egyptian paper publishes the story but gives a completely different (and more believable) account of what happened.

    http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/15006/Egypt/Politics-/Coptic-families-of-two-female-converts-to-Islam-pr.aspx

    The girls haven’t been enslaved by some big, bad Mooslims. It appears that the two girls are under the care of the authorities after they ran away from home. After their father reported their disappearance, they went on YouTube to announce that they really have converted and have not been kidnapped. The families (understandably) want their children back and are trying to obtain custody.

    Raymond’s claims that the girls are “victims of Islam’s slave trade” appear to be false.

    Maybe there are such incidents in Egypt but in this case, the story appears to be wrong and is a good example why we shouldn’t trust FrontPage.

25. Hatethehaterz Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    @Dan: “you expect Belgians to love them?”

    No I do not. But I do expect them to obey the law and not violate their civil rights. I also expect them to be intelligent enough not to generalize the actions/words of the few to an entire community. There are people of every religion who are unwilling to compromise a rigid interpretation of their faith. This does not justify bigotry, discrimmination, and/or violence againt an entire group.

    And what exactly are you referring to when you talk about certain Belgian Muslims being too rigid in thier interpretation of Islam? What exactly did they do that was so offenive in your eyes that it justifies discrimmination and bigotry? Any specific incidents? The only protests I’m aware of in Belgium were the protests against the insulting cartoon of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and protests against a proposed ban on the hijab. Is this what justifies hate crimes in your mind?

26. Hatethehaterz Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    @Dan: “Well, it’s better to be a Muslim in Belgium than to be a Christian in certain Muslim countries.”

    Again, the treatment of minorities in Muslim countries is irrelevant to this argument. What happens in another country is not justification for hate crimes and discrimmination in Belgium. Muslims in Belgium are not responsible for whatever happened to non-Muslims in ANOTHER COUNTRY; and should not be held accountable for the actions/views of someone else. By your logic, we should blame all Jews for Israeli crimes against Palestinians. By your logic, we should hold all Christians accountable for the invasion and subsequent attrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan (after all, the countries which led these wars are majority Christian). But that would be no more just than blaming all Muslims for the actions of a few “bad apples” as you call them. This line of thinking btw is very close to the rhetoric of the extremist/militant Muslims you always rail again. Many of them do blame the entire “west” (i.e. Europe and America) for the wars and attrocities against Muslim countries.

27. Hatethehaterz Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    @Dan: “soft spot for militants”

    Define “militant.” If you mean someone who commits violence against civilians/non-combatants or someone who condones aggression and violence against others simply because they have different beleifs; then no. I do not condone such individuals. Of course, this definition fits non-Muslim, right wing fascists and war-mongers just as well (if not better) than it fits Muslim extremists.

    If you mean someone who opposes unjust war, invasion, killing of civilians/non-combatants, and discrimmination and bigotry. Then I would say this is not a proper definition of “militant.” Islam only condones physical violence in the case of self-defense. This is also a universal human right.

    I would say you are far closer to a “militant” than I. I have never condoned any sort of violence unless it is in self-defense. You on the other hand have threatened physical violence against Ms. Gellar in the June article on Loonwatch about her response to Mladic’s capture, you stated: “I wish I could seriously punch her in the face.”

    Here’s the link: http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/05/pamela-geller-watch-serbian-war-criminal-mladic-caught-pamela-geller-inconsolable/#comments

    Now don’t get me wrong. I’m opposed to her Islam/Muslim bashing rhetoric as much as the next guy. But I never condoned any sort of physical violence or aggression.

    But enough with your stupid labels of “militant” etc. There is no justification for the discrimmination and bigotry taking place against Muslims. Just because someone who claims to be Muslim does something wrong half-way around the world from you does not give anyone the right to vandalize your local Mosque, prevent your sister/wife/mother from wearing hijab or slandering your faith. Heck, even if someone claiming to be Muslim right next door to you did something wrong, that still does not justify any crime against YOU. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.

28. Hatethehaterz Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    As far as the claim that it is better to be a Muslim in a non-Muslim country than it is to be non-Muslim in a Muslim country… I’m genuinely curious if this is actually true? Dan mentioned it above, but I’ve also heard it from numerous others (usually the haters). Has Danios or any other Loonwatch writer ever written on this topic? I think it might be an interesting topic to explore.

    I mean many western countries have the highest standard of living. So I would say it is better to live in these countries regardless of faith simply because of the higher standard of living. But controlling for that, is it really better to be a Muslim in a non-Muslim country than vice versa? I know many horrible crimes have been commited against non-Muslims in Muslim countries; however the same can be seen against Muslims in non-Muslim countries. For example: The Bosnian genocide (former Yugoslavia), Chechnya, Gujrat riots in India. In addition, many Mosques have been vandalized/firebombed in several non-Muslim countries. So too has there been violence and murder against Muslims in non-Muslim countries. So I am genuinely skeptical of this claim that it is better to be a Muslim in a non-Muslim country than vice versa. But I would like to see the matter presented in a non-biased, scholarly type article.

    And for the record, I’m not saying I don’t like it here in the U.S. Quite the contrary, I like it very much. But then, I’ll bet much of that has to do with the good standard of living as well.

29. Solid Snake Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    @HatetheHaters

    I believe that the reason why the standard of living in the West in general is higher than anywhere else is because most Western countries have never been suppressed by a dictator being funded by a separate entity ex Chile,Iraq, etc etc, have not had their resources stolen or given away be a dictator being funded by a separate entity,did not have their land carved up and divided into separate countries by an external entity, etc etc.

    To sum it up, most of the Western countries have been largely left alone and allowed to develop and evolve to where they are today. When you look at the Central and South American countries as well as the Middle East we see a consistent pattern in which every time there is an opportunity to develop or evolve an external superpower(usually USA, Britian , or other developed countries ) steps in and installs a brutal dictator who stunts the growth of the country in question.

    Of course that is only one factor in the equation,there are many other reasons like internal struggles.

30. Farlowe Says:
    June 26th, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    Does anyone have a copy of the report mentioned in this article?
    I couldn’t find it on the website.

31. Dan Says:
    June 27th, 2011 at 12:57 am

    @RDS: “Dan: Any news source or reference? I knew the Turkish immigrants in Austria were a handful to deal with, but I haven’t heard about the ones in Belgium.”

    I used to post on a blog a couple of years ago that gathers news pertaining to Islam about Europe which was riddled with Islamophobes but nevertheless a good source of information about news stories regarding Islam in Europe: http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/search/label/Location%3A%20Belgium

    @IbnAbuTalib: “Dan, do you hold Javed Ahmed Ghamdi, Moiz Amjad and Amin Ahsan Islahi with the same contempt as other Pakistani Muslims?”

    No of course not, why would I?

    @Hatethehaterz: I already made this clear many times. If some Belgian Muslims continue to express support for al-Qaeda, continue to be involved in terrorist plots in the country, flock to Muslim countries to fight as jihadis, raise money for extremist groups, and refuse to make compromises with their host country (a lot of Muslims in Belgium are so rigid that they even have no problem assaulting homosexuals in the country), then they are NOT doing the image of Belgian Muslims ANY favors whatsoever. If Belgian Muslims refuse to condemn the Taliban and continue to praise Islamic extremist groups then they shouldn’t be surprised if their hosts do not like them. You just don’t want to lecture fellow Muslims who believe in this because you would rather come up with 70 excuses than to do the right thing and combat mischief. The rise of fascist groups in Belgium like Vlaams Belang is purely as a result of Belgian Muslims’ inability to integrate and make compromises (why wear a niqaab in a Western country when you could wear a hijab?) The issue of Islamic extremism among Belgian Muslims is a reality and you don’t want to look into that problem as the root cause of discrimination and prejudice.

    And for the record, I did not say it is better to be a Muslim in a non-Muslim country. For the sake of the argument, I stated that it is better to be a Muslim in Belgium than to be a non-Muslim in a Muslim country. Go ask Asiya Bibi on how it’s like to be a Christian amongst a Muslim majority who want her dead and then tell me how life is allegedly so bad for Muslims in Belgium.

    And it also doesn’t help when you have dumbasses who keep bringing up the Holocaust all the time as if Muslims are going to be the next victims in Europe (quite ironic since I doubt many Muslim immigrants believe the Holocaust even occurred to begin with).

    Very few people here are willing to accept the reality that it is the actions of Muslims in Belgium which fuels the rise of Vlaams Belang and similar groups. Either Muslims in Belgium learn to be tolerant and not freak out over the sight of women not covered and the presence of homosexuals or stop whining when they refuse to make compromises. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

32. Dan Says:
    June 27th, 2011 at 1:02 am

    This group doesn’t do Belgian Muslims’ fight against injustice any favors http://shariah4belgium.com/

    Minor group or not, these morons give Belgium all the ammo it needs to demonize Muslims.

    Perhaps you guys should spend more time combating the rhetoric of these fantasists instead of whining about how life is supposedly bad for living in the West?

33. DrM Says:
    June 27th, 2011 at 2:01 am

    @hateTheHaterz,

    Dan’s hypocrisy and stupidity could not be more transparent. Using his brilliant illogic, it is completely for logical Muslims to discriminate against, and demonize westerners because some of them are bad apples(ok fine, a lot of bad apples).
    This slanderous loon is a broken record, pretending to be a Muslim yet he always tries to justify western bigotry against Muslims with the same tired cliches of many an Islamophobe. Sounds like Tarek Fatah to me.

34. RDS Says:
    June 27th, 2011 at 2:30 am

    That website seems…a little suspect. What about mainstream news outlets like BBC etc, local Belgian news (that are not tabloids a la Bild/Daily Mail)?

35. Ahmed(was called Anonomous) Says:
    June 27th, 2011 at 3:41 am

    Whats with all the saying that Muslim countries are intolerant. Most Muslim countries are poor so human rights are low. They treat Muslims bad there and there are countries like the UAE, Oman and Qatar which are rich so they tolerate others while Indonesia and Malaysia despite some violence are not that bad. The faults of another(intolerant Muslim majority countries) should not be an excuse to curtail civil liberties in a rich country.

36. Peakofelephants Says:
    June 27th, 2011 at 7:28 am

    “Well, its Europe, do you really expect any different? This is the same continent that produced the crusades, the inquisition, black slavery, pogroms, the nazis, the holocaust…i’m sure im missing out a lot.”

    AND you left out the French! *shudder*

37. Dan Says:
    June 27th, 2011 at 10:43 am

    DrM(urtad) shouldn’t you go back to inciting murder against Muslim liberals and Ahmadis as you always do? I’m sure you’re already late for your Hizb-ut-Tahrir meeting already. Not my fault you have a serious hard-on for people like Anjem Choudary and Omar Bakri, especially when you prefer to have all liberal Muslims executed while crying about being a victim. Go back to peddling 9/11 conspiracy theories you braindead moron, I find it hard to believe that a supposed “doctor” would spend all his time trolling on various Muslim sites instead of treating his patients. I’m sure you would turn down an Ahmadi to treat IF you are allegedly a doctor.

    Loud-mouthed anonymous coward.

38. NassirH Says:
    June 27th, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    If one insignificant corner of the internet can be used to justify Islamophobia against all Muslims in Belgium, then that’s an indictment against the profound Islamophobic double standards of many Westerners, not Belgium Muslims in general.

    By the way, there are far more anti-Muslim hate sites — advocating nuclear genocide, ethnic cleansing, etc. — then vice versa; and anti-Muslim hates sites are far more popular too. Do those facts mean that it’s okay to discriminate against Westerners?

39. Dan Says:
    June 27th, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    NassirH, you never were on ClearGuidance in the early 2000s at the height of their popularity?

    Even if you go on MPACUK you will find people who think the West is at war with Islam while shamelessly reaping the benefits their Western hosts provide them with.

    You can go on Muslim forums and find posters advocating the murder of Shi’as and Ahmadis, and you know how much Pakistani Muslims hate Ahmadis and look a blind eye to any terrorist attack against them.

    I don’t know why people here think that all Muslims are angels and refuse to point out the extremist lunatics who give Belgium the excuse it needs to initiate discrimination against Belgian Muslims. I guess it’s easier to act like a victim than to crack down on the people within one’s midst who perpetuate the ever-longing cycle. No one wants to point out the fact that EDL came about as a reaction to Anjem Choudary’s protests condemning British troops as “butchers of Basra” 2 years ago. You know there is a problem when you have some Belgian Muslims flocking to Muslim countries to fight on behalf of militant groups. It’s not a secret you know?

40. NassirH Says:
    June 27th, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    Two wrongs don’t make a right.

    By the way, discrimination against Muslims seems to be a more pressing concern than terrorism in Belgium — the last deadly Muslim terrorist attack in Belgium occurred in 1980 (that is if I remembered correctly). It also seems that most terrorism in Belgium is not “Islamic,” but instead rooted in Western ideologies.

    I think you will find that there is more anti-Muslim hatred on the web than hatred from Muslims. Heck, just look at Yahoo News’ threads under articles about the floods in Pakistan. There were dozens (hundreds?) of commentators rejoicing at the suffering in Pakistan, with one loon describing how he fed his dog a “hearty meal” while he “laughed” at the filthy, evil Mooslims starving after their livelihoods were destroyed by floods. This was on a mainstream news site, not FOX news of FrontPage.

41. NassirH Says:
    June 27th, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    *or FrontPage

42. Mosizzle Says:
    June 27th, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    Sharia4Belgium and Sharia4Holland all appear to be offshoots of Anjem Choudary’s ridiculous Islam4UK group. In any case, they are very new and it’s a stretch to say that workplace discrimination of the type described in this news article is their fault. Sure, their existence is being exploited by right wingers to spread Islamophobia but things like verbal abuse of Muslim employees, or firing them, or transferring them without reason are unlikely to be the result of a small group. It’s more likely to be the product of many generations of negative stereotypes of Moroccans and Turks in Belgium as being more likely to commit crime, become terrorists, live off the state etc.

    In any case, whether it’s Sharia4Belgium or general anti-immigrant sentiment and/or racism, it’s the Islamophobes who are discriminating against Muslims and justifying it and they should be held responsible for what they are doing. Sure, Muslims can try to eliminate some of the things that annoy Belgians but at the end of the day, a racist will still be racist and will discriminate whether you have done something bad or not. If someone thinks it’s funny to photoshop a picture of a Muslim colleague as Osama bin Laden or to email a picture of a pig to them, he will still find it funny even if all Muslims become a “model minority”.

    Definitely Muslims should do everything possible to sort themselves out and aim for “model minority” status but that does not mean we should restrain ourselves when giving the Islamophobes the smack down they deserve until we get there.

43. DrM Says:
    June 27th, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    @Dan

    LOL! You really are a nutjob. Show us where I have ever called for violence on “Muslim liberals” or Ahmedis etc. You can’t because you are, in fact, lying or delusional. Or both. You have elevated the strawman argument to a trollishly hellish level. You simply pick things out of your depleted mind, and project them onto your betters without any concern for truth whatsoever.Your relentless misrepresentations indicate something very unhealthy about your mental life. You’re a broken record repeating the same retarded, refuted, anti-Muslim nonsense. That’s your M.O. because you have nothing of any value to add to any discussion.
    So whats up with the takfir act, internet tough guy? Isn’t that what you often accuse “conservative Muslims” off? You’re not a Muslim but a Muslim hater, anony-buffoon. A comparison of the number of posts on this website will show which of one of us has a lot of free time on their hands. I’d tell you not to quit your day job, but you probably don’t have one.

44. Dan Says:
    June 28th, 2011 at 10:24 am

    @NassirH: “Two wrongs don’t make a right.

    By the way, discrimination against Muslims seems to be a more pressing concern than terrorism in Belgium — the last deadly Muslim terrorist attack in Belgium occurred in 1980 (that is if I remembered correctly). It also seems that most terrorism in Belgium is not “Islamic,” but instead rooted in Western ideologies.”

    What about recruitment for fighting jihad in places like Chechnya? It’s no surprise that Belgium has a very large population of Chechens and such pan-Islamist sentiments to support your Muslim brothers fighting oppression is not uncommon in the country.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11820008

    “I think you will find that there is more anti-Muslim hatred on the web than hatred from Muslims. Heck, just look at Yahoo News’ threads under articles about the floods in Pakistan. There were dozens (hundreds?) of commentators rejoicing at the suffering in Pakistan, with one loon describing how he fed his dog a “hearty meal” while he “laughed” at the filthy, evil Mooslims starving after their livelihoods were destroyed by floods. This was on a mainstream news site, not FOX news of FrontPage.”

    That’s Yahoo News, it’s a hotbed for trolls on the site. Even if you go on news stories not pertaining to Muslims (whether it’s about Obama or blacks) you will find such ridiculous comments as well. I remember reading comments on the site last year over the stampede tragedy in Berlin last July and they were on the lines of they deserved it.

    And if you don’t think there are comments of hate by Muslims on other sites, then you’re delusional. We all witnessed how much support and pride there was on Pakistani sites and Facebook when Salman Taseer was murdered (I wouldn’t be surprised if DrM cheered the murder since he hates anyone who dares to challenge intolerant mullahs and defend minorities). Just go on Pakistaniat and see how many people even wanted the author of the site dead for speaking out against the forces of intolerance. And in light of bin laden’s killing, MuslimMatters made a guideline when commenting that they will not tolerate the praise of bin laden (you know there are a lot of keyboard jihadis that comment on the site). Better yet, when you have time how about you check out Haq Chaar Yaar forums to see that Muslims are not immune from spreading hatred and murder either.

    @DrM: Nutjob? lol Mr. Pot go hook up with Miss Kettle. It’s funny how you complain about someone like Asra Nomani while supporting terrorist sympathizers like Yvonne Ridley. I guess it’s okay to support a woman who supports Anjem Choudary and mourned the loss of a Chechen terrorist like Shamil Basayev who had no shame in taking a school hostage and slaughtering non-Muslim kids in the process. You should take a good look in the mirror on who’s morally deficient, supporting Muslim demagogues who are anti-Western. Is there any wonder why you never call out Samir Khan who’s now a terrorist in Yemen after living in North Carolina amongst the “dirty kuffar” or Khalid Kelly since they share the same worldview as you do?

    @Mosizzle: “Definitely Muslims should do everything possible to sort themselves out and aim for “model minority” status but that does not mean we should restrain ourselves when giving the Islamophobes the smack down they deserve until we get there.”

    That’s a good point to make. I agree that you can’t reason with bigots and racists, but does that mean one should stick to their guns and not compromise? This article on AltMuslim makes some good points on one example of compromise: http://www.altmuslim.com/a/a/a/4348

45. DrM Says:
    June 29th, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    @Dan,

    Yawn, I didn’t know there was a clone of Tarek Fatah foaming at the mouth slithering about. You’re all over the place with your flight of tangents, nut job. You sound more and more like you’ve been overdosing Spencer’s droppings. Last I checked Asra Nomani was featured and shown to be an opportunistic loon on this site as well. So using your brilliant powers of deduction Loon Watch is also a radical Muslim outfit. Also since your “opinions” mirror those of anti-Muslim scumbgags it’s perfectly plausible to assume that you are in fact in cahoots with Spencer and Geller, and probably an EDL terrorist as well. And you hate kittens as well. I came to these conclusions using your methodology.
    But of course this isn’t about Nomani or any of the other distractors you desperately pepper your retarded, racist posts with. You make up lies(claiming I support violence against “liberal Muslims” and Ahmedis) and run off like scared poodle when asked for proof, only to return with more lies and distractors.
    You’re an intellectually dishonest quisling (or tacciya practicing lap dog, if you prefer), Danny boy. Piss off back to Geehad Watch where you belong, bottom feeder.

46. GC Says:
    April 13th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    Islam is not even a religion so the sooner everyone understands this then the sooner the muslims infiltrating Europe and beyond realize they must convert to Christianity or face deportation. Their ‘Mohammed’ is a person who did not exist. He’s an imagined character made up by old arabic tribes. Islam has caused only problems wherever they have settled. Their Qu’ran preaches death to women and decapitation of limbs to those who commit petty crimes. This is not a religion of peace, respect and love for your fellow man. Islam is a tribal evil arabic cult and it must be removed. I predict if nothing is done I can see another Holy Crusade rising up and defeat the islamists to protect Christianity.

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