This man is responsible for a war crime, and it is totally sick that he is getting away with massacring innocent civilians:
Marine gets three months in jail for massacring two dozen civilians
(RT)
More than six years after Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich led a squad of Marines into two Haditha, Iraq homes and massacred two dozen civilians, the American serviceman in charge has reached a plea deal.
For nine counts of manslaughter, Wuterich will get three months of confinement.
Wuterich is the last of eight men tied to the November 2005 killing that left 24 Iraqis dead, including women, children and the elderly. It was announced on Monday this week that he had reached a plea with prosecutors during his military tribunal and is now expected to be sentenced as early as Tuesday. According to the Associated Press, Wuterich will face a maximum of three months of confinement, the forfeiture of two-thirds of his pay and a rank demotion.
Of the other seven Marines charged with the now-notorious massacre, one was acquitted and six had their charges dismissed. Wuterich’s attorneys have been confident throughout the ordeal that he would see a similar outcome. “He’s going to be glad to have it over because he knows that he’ll be exonerated,” lawyer Neal Puckett told National Public Radio earlier this month.
On November 19, 2005, Wuterich led a squad of men into two separate homes in the town of Haditha and opened fire on everyone in sight. Prosecutors say that a roadside bomb exploded moments before the Marines stormed the home, and were brought into hysterics by seeing a fellow soldier die in the attack. In response, they went on a rampage and for 45 minutes raided the two homes and were never faced with gunfire. Wuterich later said he instructed his team to “shoot first and ask questions later.”
“My Marines responded to the threats they faced in the manner that we all had been trained,” he explained to CBS’ 60 Minutes in 2007. After the roadside bomb was detonated, Wuterich said that, “My responsibility as a squad leader is to make sure that none of the rest of my guys died. And at that point, we were still on the assault.”
Lt. Col. Joseph Kloppel, spokesman of the Camp Pendleton marine Corps base near San Diego, California, told the media on Monday that “By pleading guilty to this charge, Staff Sergeant Wuterich has accepted responsibility for his actions.”
January 24th, 2012 at 11:41 am
War desensitizes people, and the next logical extreme are things like this-been reading two books, Will war end, and The end of war both by paul chappell. He is an Iraq vet, and has good insight into how things like this can happen
January 24th, 2012 at 12:00 pm
One has to ask: where’s the justice, bro?
Would the Islamophobes describe this as a case of “sudden crusade syndrome” as they have done to other cases of terrorism where the perpetrators were nominally Muslim?
January 24th, 2012 at 2:08 pm
Kissinger once said “military men as “dumb, stupid animals to be used” as pawns for foreign policy. Sounds politely accurate to me. As much as I loathe these filthy war criminals, their supporters I despise even more.
January 24th, 2012 at 2:42 pm
with this ruling, the US military has forfeited any moral ascendancy it believed itself to posses. once again they demonstrate clearly that the lives of those they kill are considered to be worthless. I as an Iraqi, spit upon this ruling, shame on you.
January 24th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
they “responded in the manner they had been trained”? seriously? they had been trained to become hysterical when one of their men actually DIED in a war zone and proceed to slaughter civilians?
why are these men still in uniform?
January 24th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
January 24th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
They became hysterical when one of them got killed? What did they expect kisses and hugs? Anyway maybe these marines should be taken back to Iraq without any weapons or protection and let the relatives of the victims have at them.
January 24th, 2012 at 3:20 pm
This monster should not be allowed to serve a mere three months in jail…
Another an who commits manslaughter for killing a teenage boy whie driving drunk and gets six years but this guy who massacres innocent civilians as part of the monstrous American war crimes gets only three months.
This guy should get the death penalty, without doubt. It should be swift.
There has to be something concerned citizens can do to perhaps get this guy the death penalty…
Either way, the United States needs to face the consequences for violating international law.
I am furious that nothing is being done. The US needs to realize that it can no longer invade other lands as part of it’s Grand Plan.
How utterly depraved and sickening….
January 24th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
This man isn’t a human being.
January 24th, 2012 at 3:23 pm
If I was in charge, I would order unbelievable punishment inflicted to this thing. I would make it wish it had never been born.
January 24th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
Perhaps it should serve a ruling under Islamic law for butchering Muslims.
January 24th, 2012 at 3:32 pm
This breaks my heart. There is one thing to be at war, and there is another thing to kill innocent people. Where is the humanity? Oh, wait, he received 3 months. Everything is ok!
January 24th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
only 3 mos?! sickening. Just goes to show the values the US military fights to uphold (hint: they haven’t any!)
January 24th, 2012 at 4:49 pm
What did they say in the Crusades? “It is not murder to kill an infidel.” Seems to be the same mentality toward American soldiers killing innocent Arabs.
January 24th, 2012 at 6:08 pm
Those of you who think it was the Marines claiming they became hysterical after seeing one of their number killed need to reread the article. It clearly states that that is what the prosecutor said about the Marines. You ought to start something called Literacy Watch.
Isa: Plenty of imams have stated that killing infidels is legal, OK, and desirable.
January 24th, 2012 at 7:35 pm
@Reader,
Tell us the names of these “plenty of imams” of yours. Do you believe Iraqis or any other occupied people have an obligation to fight invader terrorists?
January 24th, 2012 at 8:03 pm
Reader wrote:
“Those of you who think it was the Marines claiming they became hysterical after seeing one of their number killed need to reread the article. It clearly states that that is what the prosecutor said about the Marines. You ought to start something called Literacy Watch.”
Keep in mind that by pleading guilty, Wuterich essentially agreed to the prosecutor’s case.
Secondly, if the Marines didn’t do what they did out of an emotional motivation (whether you call it “hysterics” or something else), then are you saying what they did, they did in cold blood? If so, that’s even more damning.
“Isa: Plenty of imams have stated that killing infidels is legal, OK, and desirable.”
If they did, then they should be condemned as well. Saying that killing someone’s ok because they don’t hold a certain religious view (or that they DO hold a certain religious view) is hateful bigotry.
January 24th, 2012 at 8:26 pm
Sigh…if you want to play that game reader how about a small list of what the west has done…killed hundreds of thousands of Iraq, killed untold amounts of Afghans, suported Iraq against Iran, turned back when saddam killed Kurds, along with the uk and israel overthrew democracy in Iran and put in the brutal shah, which lead Khomenis Theocratic regime, lets not forget the genocide of the native Americans and well you know this is only a small sample all you need do is read history and it will appall you how much suffering and death the west caused. I didn’t do this to be cruel but because I’m sick of the lies the right-wing so called patriots tell acting like Muslims/Arabs are bringers of death and destruction and the West hands are clean of blood. Like I said read, but you won’t because it’s easier to just hate.
January 24th, 2012 at 10:36 pm
Emperor,
Talk about a light sentence!
January 25th, 2012 at 1:02 am
Reader Says:
January 24th, 2012 at 6:08 pm
Those of you who think it was the Marines claiming they became hysterical after seeing one of their number killed need to reread the article. It clearly states that that is what the prosecutor said about the Marines. You ought to start something called Literacy Watch.
Isa: Plenty of imams have stated that killing infidels is legal, OK, and desirable.
——–
Yes the prosecutor are lieing Jar heads or anyone from the military can’t do no wrong they are above God . This over the top Hero Worship flag waving patriotism stuff is really getting old.
Right is Right
Wrong is Wrong
There is no middle if and or buts to it. If our guys messed up they messed up Please stop defending people like this as if pointing out there flaws is a person attack on You insulting your mom or something and or This country .
and 2
As the other here said If some extremist did say that then they should be condemned thrown in jail
Its Funny bigots are quick to point the view of extremists but never the liberal’s
Bin Laden Distorts Islam, Islamic Scholars Say
http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/wtc-distortion.html
During Friday prayers Muslim clerics in the Arab world have strongly condemned Tuesday’s (9.11)attacks in America.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1544955.stm
Grand Sheikh condemns suicide bombings
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1690624.stm
January 25th, 2012 at 2:08 am
I’m glad that this ordeal is over and justice was served. Nobody knows what happened other than this man, his legal team and those that were there. I wonder how man of the posters fought in a war and how you know if his training under stress made him call right. Its war not a science and innocent people die. I’d love to see just a single article condemning what Iraqis do not only to themselves by to non-Iraqis. I wont hold my breath.
JD:
For every religious “sheikh, scholar, authority, politican, Muslim” that condemns OBL there are plenty that justify his actions using subtle language or even explicitly. It also becomes a matter of what is suicide or murder depending on how and how it is directed at. Its not a question of semantics.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/hamas-osama-bin-laden
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/143848#.Tx-3sqW29_g
http://www.ajc.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=ijITI2PHKoG&b=849241&ct=9378095
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/2319.htm
I wont post because I get censored. Islam doesn’t like a contrary view.
January 25th, 2012 at 2:31 am
I saw this on Al Jazeera yesterday and couldn’t help but laugh! This guy gets 3 months for cold blooded murder of innocent civilians, Omar Khedir gets 16 years in Gitmo because his dad sold him to militants in Afghanistan to be a translator whilst he was 14-15, a child soldier under international law even if he did pick up a gun, (which the evidence shows is extremely unlikely), ridiculous!
January 25th, 2012 at 3:35 am
@Reader
Are your type going to condemn those right wing extremist Rabbis in Israel – who people like your Icons Robert Spencer and Pam Geller associate themselves support – who say Non Jews can be killed???
January 25th, 2012 at 9:34 am
@twiceasnice You say “Its war not a science and innocent people die” But usually if innocent people die its supposed to be by mistake, NOT ON PURPOSE!!!Its against the rules of war to purposely attack non combatants. So your flippant comment seems to imply its no big deal , innocent Arab people got killed,its war, as if its some legitimate excuse. Yet your comment hides the fact that these people were targeted ON PURPOSE so the, “its war” excuse doesn’t work here.
And your links with the exception of the Guardian are all BS anti arab, anti muslim websites with a clear Bias against islam. No wonder you bigots dont have a clue, you read biased , and non-neutral sources and think you now are well informed. What fools!!!
January 25th, 2012 at 10:10 am
As General Sherman said “war is hell”. If you have not been on the front lines you cannot be a fair judge of anyone’s action or response to a given situation. The United States has become involved, rightly or wrongly in a number of foreign wars and has asked the young men in uniform to put their life on the line for you and me. They have answered that call, have you?
January 25th, 2012 at 10:35 am
@jermiec,
Another brainwashed, idiotic, apologist for terror. What you’re saying is that it’s perfectly alright to kill innocent people as long as they got army uniforms on. Anybody with a human heart can judge what these evil bastards committed was mass murder. They aren’t putting their lives on the line for you or me, but dying to steal a barrel of oil.
January 25th, 2012 at 11:43 am
@Mrislamanswersback
Have you been privy to information that I haven’t read or anybody else on this forum if so please provide some links. I’m saying that in modern warfare innocent people die, that’s a fact. I’d love to know what military service you have done? You are only misrepresenting what I’ve written.
I’m sure you’d like the Gaurdian because like you its generally anti-Israel. Instead of you showing how and what is “BS” about the links you dismiss them, why? You clearly have a chip on your shoulder I HATE RELIGION and I’ve written it everywhere. It doesn’t follow I hate all followers of a religion. I read this site which is not neutral. What you call “neutral” is subjective, a fact is a fact. End of.
I’ve been to your YouTube channel and everything boils down to anti-ethnic/racial issues with you. Tell me non-native Arabic speaker where the religious person in the MEMRI video was wrong. I love converts schooling me.
January 25th, 2012 at 11:49 am
@TwiceasNice and Jeremiec,
1. The U.S. invasion of Iraq was an unjust war built on a pack of lies. Where are the WMDS? So American sons and daughters died defending a lie as George Galloway likes to put it. (I am not a big fan of George Galloway btw, but I think he was right in this regard).
2. Intentionally Killing and targeting unarmed civilians is a war crime.
3. Arabs are human beings and hence have human rights, and we repeatedly violate their human rights.
4. You’re right that war is hell. But it is often than not a choice. Choose life over death. Choose peace over violence. Choose justice over oppression and choose love over hate, my friends.
Do not be apologists for unjust wars. Be the change we want to see in the world.
January 25th, 2012 at 12:46 pm
JD:
For every religious “sheikh, scholar, authority, politican, Muslim” that condemns OBL there are plenty that justify his actions using subtle language or even explicitly. It also becomes a matter of what is suicide or murder depending on how and how it is directed at. Its not a question of semantics.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/hamas-osama-bin-laden
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/143848#.Tx-3sqW29_g
http://www.ajc.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=ijITI2PHKoG&b=849241&ct=9378095
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/2319.htm
I wont post because I get censored. Islam doesn’t like a contrary view
==============================================
Well Islamaphobes always point out there never any muslims or muslim leaders that condemn or distance the religion of Islam from the actions of these kind of people
When We point out to them There are as I have done
They use there fall back tactic There may some use religion as a excuse so that cancels out or out weight the good muslims.
So which one is it? Is there a winning argument with you people? Is it ever good enough or will you always never acknowledge or give small bit ?
We can also point out idiot comments from idiot people like
“The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle),” Friedman wrote in response to the question posed by Moment Magazine for its “Ask the Rabbis” feature.” Rabbi Manis Friedman
or
“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel,” he said in his weekly Saturday night sermon on the laws regarding the actions non-Jews are permitted to perform on Shabbat. ” Rabbi Ovadia Yosef
or
“Thank God for the tsunami, and thank God that two thousand dead Swedes are fertilizing the ground over there [in Asia]. How many of these two thousand, do you suppose, were fags and dykes? This is how the Lord deals with His enemies. And the Lord has got some enemies. And Sweden heads the list. You filthy Swedes. You filthy Swedes!” Fred Phelps
“You know, I don’t know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we’re trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It’s a whole lot cheaper than starting a war … We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don’t need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It’s a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with.” –Pat Robertson
But then you prob come back with they are not following the right version of there religion and that is not main stream _____ or ______ religion
Well do we also get that option
January 25th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
It’s sad how the justice system in this country can be tweaked, as needed. The sad thing is that if an African American was caught with some marijuana, he will be in jail for much longer than someone who’s committed a war crime.
But oh, I forgot. Those civilians he killed are “potential terrorists”, I mean, who knows, one day they may blow up something.. so what this brave soldier did was ridding the world of future terrorists.
Welcome to the “New American Century”, tainted by the evil ideologies of the neocons.
January 25th, 2012 at 1:13 pm
Interesting. I point out two facts and suddenly I am a “type”.
My comments about the prosecutor saying the Marines were hysterical was directed at those people on here who are saying the Marines claimed that in defense of their alleged actions. They did not. We can’t talk about anything if people cannot read well.
Do I support “rightwing” Rabbis who say it is OK to kill non-Jews? Of course not. How does such an assumption follow from what I DID say? Anyway this thread and story are not about them, are they? Of course, the number of “rightwing” Rabbis or their followers strappiing bombs to themselves to murder innocent people is pretty low, right? I don’t know of any.
You can find those imams who say it is OK to kill infidels with a google search – do it yourself. Or read the koran which says the same thing.
January 25th, 2012 at 1:43 pm
@reader,
Slippery as ever, eh slimy? Forget Google, post your “evidence” directly here to “prove” your point. What’s the matter, too chicken to post links to Geehad Watch? Not that I need the Quran or any Imam to instruct me to defend myself from the terrorists you giddily support.
You never did answer the question : Do you believe Iraqis or any other occupied people have an obligation to fight invader terrorists? A simple yes or no will suffice.
January 25th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
@ reader
“You can find those imams who say it is OK to kill infidels with a google search – do it yourself. Or read the koran which says the same thing.”
No, the onus is on you to provide us evidence, and I have read the Quran and I can’t see where the Quran, as you claim ‘says the same thing’.
January 25th, 2012 at 1:53 pm
@twiceasretarded,
So because you’re “saying that in modern warfare innocent people die, that’s a fact,” that makes it perfectly acceptable to give 3 months jail time to a terrorist who killed women and children. Wonder if you’d be that cavalier if the scenario was reversed.
You’re not fooling anyone with your cliched “I hate all religion” line. Anybody who hates all religion and religious people as a rule is mentally unstable and anti-human, guess that explains your attitude towards dead Iraqi civilians. It’s utterly laughable for you speak of neutrality. Furthermore, anybody who uses the crap put out by the israeli hacks behind MEMRI can’t be taken seriously.
January 25th, 2012 at 6:34 pm
@twiceasnice,
Correct me if I am wrong but I think you’re a militant atheist. I too am a militant atheist and I hate all religions just like you but I don’t believe that gives us a license to kill religious people be they Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. We should instead respect their beliefs and they ours, coexist and mutually benefit off of each other.
I want to show you something. An article from counterpunch published today. I will quote from it briefly:
“Over 6000 residents of Fallujah were reportedly killed in the nine-day sacking of the city which followed, beginning on November 7. Given that the Pentagon concedes that many of the insurgents managed to slip out of the city before the attack, or to hide out until it was over, this means that thousands of civilians, including boys — many of whom had tried to leave before the attack — were slaughtered by invading American and British troops.
This past December, as the last American troops were pulling out of Iraq in what President Obama is terming a “victory” in the nine-year war launched by President Bush, several American news organizations published retrospectives on Fallujah, a city that was, according to various accounts, anywhere from 30% to 70% leveled by the two assaults in 2004.”
And:
“The Nuremberg Charter, as well as the Geneva Conventions, drawn up in 1949 and approved by the US Senate, make it clear that collective punishment, as practiced widely, particularly on the Eastern Front in World War II by the Nazi Wehrmacht, is a war crime. As Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention puts it:
No protected person may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.
Other Geneva Conventions were also violated by the US assaults on Fallujah, which featured the deliberate targeting of hospitals and ambulances, as well as the active refusal to allow male non-combatants to flee the scene of impending battle, the execution of wounded or captured enemy fighters, and the denial of protected status to boys under the age of 18 who were seeking to flee the scene of battle.”
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/01/25/see-no-evil/
So we are in fact violating the Geneva Conventions via our assault on Iraq. Does that mean anything to you?
January 25th, 2012 at 7:56 pm
Hi @DrM….. Shukran for the straightforwardness, double tongued and hypocrisy never solves anything for anybody, and it’s always best to remember what Allah(swt)said, to stand up for justice, even if it is against yourselves, your parents, relatives, or country. So how come there is not many out there who call themselves American, even here at Loonwatch, who can have the honest guts to call a spade for what it is, and admit that what their USA government is doing in that part of the world is nothing short but legalized terrorism? and on way bigger scale than all other terrorist groups put together? Why is it fine and dandy to condemned few loony, underground groups that throws few bombs here and there as big-bad terrorists, but look-away, legitimize and protect under the guise of “war”, all-out US or Israeli groups with planes senselessly bombing innocent people, as “big-brave soldiers”? Who is’t anyway that declared war on America in order for her to sent her “soldiers” to destroy Iraq? Did Saddam Hussein did?……..I think those are questions the ordinary Americans don’t want to ask themselves, nor anyone to ask them. And the sad part in all this, is that they’re still unable to realize even 10 years after 9/11, that their own leaders keep on reproducing several 9/11′s, and on much greater scale than the one they’ve suffered themselves. And maybe then when they finally realize, will they be able to speak-up and stop the destructive measures, and the brutality their leaders have brought upon other human beings like them. I keep on asking this question, to understand why American people are so hasty in putting their whole energy in condemning some already marginalized, and denounced groups, but seem so passive and inert to their own leaders actions throughout the world…..They demand the whole world of Islam to get-up at once, and scream condamnations each and every time an unknown, lone lunatic blows up a hangar, but yet won’t do an inch of effort to do the same with their well known, elected leaders blowing up whole countries. I think you may know here an individual who goes by the fictitious name HGG, but anyway, when I stated that yes indeed the actions of USA in Muslim countries can be categorized as terrorist actions, he goes bananas, saying that whosoever say such, is no better than “Islamophobes”. But surprise-surprise, when I asked him why is it intolerable and huge evil(i.e., terrorism) to blow-up few building here and there, but it isn’t when to blow-up whole countries? could never answer…. Unfortunately, I think that’s the kind of amnesia, and comatose American people are in for the past 10 years, while they’re distracted with Hollywood latest, and Paris Hilton/Kardashians’s dances and shopping Sprees, the world, specially the Muslim world, is wondering why is it the American Frankenstein been unleashed on them, and why aren’t his makers stopping him. I think that’s fair question to ask, isn’t? ——— Salaam.
January 25th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
@Reader
You wrote: “Of course, the number of “rightwing” Rabbis or their followers strappiing bombs to themselves to murder innocent people is pretty low, right? I don’t know of any.”
I am afraid you have a pretty myopic view of terrorism. If terrorism encompasses the killing of innocent civilians as its basic premise then there can hardly be a distinction between state-sponsored terrorism and individual or small-group terrorism.
Muslim terrorism has killed 18,334 people after 9/11 worldwide.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/TheList.htm
It saddens me that I have to get this information from a bigoted website called Religion of Peace, but to make this point I have no choice.
But the deaths of civilians from Iraq alone is 104,990 – 114,667 according to Iraq Body Count
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
So do you really wish to measure body count? A death is a death, one single loss of life unjustly is a tragedy. It really doesn’t matter who is pointing the gun.
I condemn any action that results in the death of innocent civilians so I condemn Muslim terrorism and U.S. aggression in Iraq.
Let’s all just put down our guns and live together side by side not as enemies but friends. Let us forgive each other for our sins and start anew. A new earth, where animosity between Muslims and the West does not exist.
January 25th, 2012 at 10:45 pm
This makes my blood boil.
Omar Khadr is a CANADIAN citizen who was then an UNDERAGE teen that was dragged to Afghanistan by his father and with little evidence killed ONE AMERICAN SOLIDER, and is now stuck in an AMERICAN PRISON, one with the world worst reuptation for another 20 yrs?
And this man is part of an ILLEGAL invasion of a sovereign nation and kills 24 INNOCENT CIVILIANS and is only going to spend 3 FREAKIN MONTHS?
And what’s worse is the excuses people make for him!
“Oh, war de-sentaizes people. He was young and foolish blah blah blah.
What a fucking sick world we live in
January 26th, 2012 at 12:02 am
Waliakum Asalam Géji,
Very well said. The militarist state is fooling itself, many of these psychopaths are already back on American streets, and will no doubt commit similar crimes after all the practice shooting up “hajis” in Iraq and Afghanistan. The difference is many Americans will wholeheartedly support terrorism as long as its done in foreign lands by their army thugs in uniform, and will of plenty of BS excuses on their behalf, yet ask where are the “moderate” Muslim. Sick murderous bastards who will pay the price sooner or later for their innumerable crimes. INSHALLAH.
As for the rest of it, Jasmine summed up my anger and thoughts on this miscarriage of justice.
January 26th, 2012 at 12:38 am
Believing Atheist Says: “@twiceasnice, Correct me if I am wrong but I think you’re a militant atheist. I too am a militant atheist and I hate all religions just like you, but I don’t believe that gives us a license to kill religious people be they Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc”
- To hate, to oppress, to persecute, to smear viciously, to belittle, to disrespect, to desecrate ect – them, their families, communities, their places of worship, or what they hold sacred and drear – is completely vile and unacceptable, whether intentionally or unintentionally ——- And if any “militant” whatever decided to show his/her “hate” by “getting the licence to kill”- them, and their families solely for their religion? Then, what was it again that Malcolm X said in one of his famous quotes? ah! yes! “send them to the cemetery”, which pretty much sum-up the idea of self-defense in Islam, that he-(may Allah have mercy on his soul)- was trying to explain. But that goes for any group, whether they’re religious or Atheists, no one should oppress and kill another group solely for what they believe or don’t “Believe”, and vice-versa….. Chio!
January 26th, 2012 at 3:13 am
http://rt.com/usa/news/jail-sentence-wuterich-haditha-697/
January 26th, 2012 at 3:18 am
@Believing Atheist
That statistic you quoted from an anti-Muslim hate site is bogus.
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/07/17000-%E2%80%9Cislamic-terrorist%E2%80%9D-attacks-exist-in-fevered-islamophobic-brains/
January 26th, 2012 at 5:40 am
US troops kill Muslims because we Muslims let them kill. Ask Abdullah, ask Karzai and ask Zardari.
January 26th, 2012 at 9:07 am
@athiest
the religion of peace site is a load of crap in so many ways for one thing even those idiots say that number isnt accurate, and also they claim muslims have done nothing about the issue of extremism when in reality muslims have been doing things like that, and third they seem to tie everything a muslim does to terrorism another reason that site is not a trusted source for information about terrorism at all.
January 26th, 2012 at 9:20 am
@BelievingAtheist
This is a second part response. The whole reason Iraq was invaded was because of WMD’s not oil. Its all well and good after the fact to conclude that the governments/their agencies lied when it was in fact flawed intelligence. Let’s remember Saddam used WMD’s in the Kurds in Halabjah, wouldn’t let further inspections. That was reason enough to invade. This was a man that ethnically cleansed the Marsh Arabs, killed thousands of his own people as per the mass graves, invaded sovereign Kuwait, sponsored terrorist/their families. Just like the case in Iran somebody like that can never be allowed to have WMD’s. The war basically and all the death and maiming was a result of that. Also, Saddam could have left office when Bush told him to. Look at the result.
http://www.cfr.org/iraq/terrorism-havens-iraq/p9513
http://www.cfr.org/iraq/iraq-iraqi-ties-terrorism/p7702
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/02/iraq_events/html/chemical_warfare.stm
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/11/20/sbm.documents/index.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/5727868/Saddam-Hussein-lied-about-WMDs-to-protect-Iraq-from-Iran.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/15/defector-admits-wmd-lies-iraq-war
Now for the more controversial part: having read your last post. I don’t see why countries should care about the Geneva convention when dealing with non-state actors and countries where it isn’t respected. That was written in 1949 when warfare was different. By the way I’m no fan of the US but I’d rather them with all their faults the world superpower than any Muslim state. I do think that it is a greater force for good than bad.
January 26th, 2012 at 10:16 am
@Geiji,
I said being an atheist and hating all religions DOES NOT GIVE US A LICENSE TO KILL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. I was contrasting myself with another atheist (at least whom I believe to be an atheist) twiceasnice.
@llisha,
It may be inaccurate but I was trying to make a different point. The point I was trying to make was that no matter what the numbers are of Muslim terrorism. U.S. aggression in Iraq far exceeds the death level and body count. So there is enough blame to go around both sides. Hence, let’s all just put down our guns and start a new world.
@twiceasnice,
I will answer you after work.
January 26th, 2012 at 6:07 pm
@twiceasnice
“Its all well and good after the fact to conclude that the governments/their agencies lied when it was in fact flawed intelligence.”
If it is was flawed intelligence that compelled us to invade Iraq, then we should have corrected our flaw by leaving.
“Let’s remember Saddam used WMD’s in the Kurds in Halabjah, wouldn’t let further inspections. That was reason enough to invade. This was a man that ethnically cleansed the Marsh Arabs, killed thousands of his own people as per the mass graves, invaded sovereign Kuwait, sponsored terrorist/their families”
The U.S. provided Saddam with Chemical Weapons. So why wasn’t the U.S. govt held accountable alongside Saddam as an accomplice to the killing of Kurds?
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/26825
January 27th, 2012 at 3:08 am
I know I am being a broken record by saying this (and I said this on the Facebook “Americans Against Islamophobia group”) but, here I go.
Smoking a doobie in America is a greater crime than killing innocent Iraqis, Afghans and Pakistanis.
January 27th, 2012 at 4:47 am
@twiceasnice
“This was a man that ethnically cleansed the Marsh Arabs, killed thousands of his own people as per the mass graves, invaded sovereign Kuwait, sponsored terrorist/their families.”
Others have done the same or worse, why were they not invaded?
@Believing Atheist
Your point is very true, I remember this front cover from a Private Eye in 1997:
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers.php?showme=944
(This one is good too: http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers.php?showme=1050 )
I disagree that the best way to right the wrong was to leave though, a mess was made and it should have been cleaned. Iraq should have been over within a year, the fact that there was no plan on what to do after the invasion ruined any chances of success.
I recommend “Rules of Engagement” by Col Time Collins who commanded the Royal Irish during the invasion Iraq. He actually managed to keep his sector under control simply by planning ahead and working with the locals after his forces took control of the area. He was also charged with ‘war crimes’ by the US, mostly it seems in response for him showing them up for not managing to do what he did and became disillusioned with what happened after. Interesting bloke anyway, the speech he gave his men before battle (exhorting them on good conduct and how they were there as liberators and helpers, to create a better Iraq) shows just how many soldiers thought Iraq should be, and how they were betrayed later.
Jack
January 27th, 2012 at 10:19 am
that werewolf looking “Harpur” of Canada has destroyed the life of Omar Khadr, yet this monster who’s responsible for the killing of 24 people gets three months in jail? his bible allows the killing of women, children, and the elderly, if he believes Jesus is God then Jesus himself is the genocidal GOD of the Old Testament!
January 27th, 2012 at 11:15 am
Jack Cope writes: the fact that there was no plan on what to do after the invasion ruined any chances of success.
There was a plan and we’re seeing the success.
January 28th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
@ twiceasnice again innocent people are supposed to get killed BY MISTAKE in war NOT ON PURPOSE. These marines killed on PURPOSE, get it!? So they have no excuse. THEY KILLED ON PURPOSE!!!!!! That’s not part of war. And what does my military service have to do with the issue at hand? Your are clearly shrugging this war crime as no big deal because according to you, “that’s war”.
And MEMRI has been exposed many times for its mis-translations and doctoring of clips http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/may/15/arabicunderfire
And I have no chip on my shoulder( Typical charge made by White bigots when a man of color rightfully speaks out against injustice).
And what facts have you presented? Again anti muslim, anti arab websites and blogs are not reliable when it comes to “facts” Something loonwatch has exposed over and over again.
January 30th, 2012 at 12:58 am
When this news initially broke, I was too upset to say or think anything. Men broke into houses of women and children and killed them all. But that is the “fog of war” we’re told usually results and which we give too much credit to and so these defendants are not responsible for their crime. Who is?
Inevitably, we are…those of us who believed the rhetoric, elected the officials who spouted the rhetoric and those who pardoned the people who formulated the rhetoric. There is an entire group of murderers, not just those boots on the ground, who are responsible for the atrocity at Haditha and many other places in Iraq and we have forgotten about them. Laws that we wrote or had a part in writing internationally and which we’ve imposed on other countries have been forgotten or swept under the rug as we condoned the full scale invasion and widespread murder of Iraqi people we said we were there to protect. Those of us who remain(ed) silent are the guilty party for this and all the other atrocities of Iraq and it is we who will pay.
January 30th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
The whole War is hell excuse and yes it’s a excuse to justify wrong behavior is getting old. It has become a justifiably acceptable excuse by ” The Club” nations to do what in a war zone while we hold others around the world Sadaam Gadafi Assad Prince_____ from Saudi Arabia with a different standard. We are leaving the door open for dictators war lords and and others to make the same claim after they wipe out a whole village. Also It really does not make us look good around the world us being the blah blah of democracy and freedom and human rights and all of that