The FBI released hate crime statistics for the year of 2010, which showed that anti-Semitic crimes topped the list of religiously motivated hate crimes. Islamophobes have latched on to this fact to claim that “there is no Islamophobia.” For example, Robert Spencer of JihadWatch asked: ”What do you have to say about the fact that FBI statistics show that there is no ‘Islamophobia’?”
The American Muslim’s Sheila Musaji published a response to this argument, pointing out that it’s a non-sequitur: it does not follow that “there is no Islamophobia” just because there were more anti-Semitic hate crimes reported than anti-Muslim ones. This would be like arguing that “there is no anti-Semitism” because there were more anti-black hate crimes reported than anti-Semitic ones.
In fact, Musaji points out that there was a 50% increase in the number of reported anti-Muslim hate crimes. Any reasonable person would think this trend to be concerning and ask: what is causing this steep rise in anti-Muslim hate crimes?
There is another issue here: it’s a well-known fact that ethnic minorities are less likely to report hate crimes. One of the common reasons cited for this is that such minority groups tend to distrust police and authorities–which is certainly the case for Arabs and Muslims, who have every reason to feel this way.
Islamophobia penetrates law enforcement and government on all levels, starting from the police: the Washington Monthly had a very eyeopening article on the subject: How We Train Our Cops to Fear Islam.
The FBI, the governmental institution responsible for monitoring hate crimes, is itself brimming with Islamophobia (see here, here, here, here, here, and here). Many Muslims in America don’t trust the FBI, and wouldn’t report hate crimes to them, for fear of being accused of something themselves.
This is exactly what happened to a female Muslim student at the University of Bridgeport who reported to authorities that a man was sexually harassing her; not only was the man not investigated, but the female Muslim student herself ended up being investigated by the FBI after the accused molester called her a terrorist. That’s how vulnerable Muslims are in this country: accuse them of being a terrorist and the FBI will come knocking at their door.
The chain of anti-Muslim bigotry goes even higher to the Department of Homeland Security. The House Committee on Homeland Security is led by the fervently anti-Muslim Congressman Peter King. It is Muslims, not Jews or people of any other religion, who are subjected to such hearings. If King had suggested holding anti-Jewish hearings, the comparisons to Nazi Germany would be quickly invoked (rightfully so) and the Congressman’s career would come to a swift end (again, rightfully so). Yet, when this bigotry is leveled against Muslims, the reaction is far more mild.
This brings me to my second (and main) point: it is Muslims, not Jews or people of any other faith, who are the number one victims of institutionalized bigotry in America. This is something more pernicious than lone-wolf hate crimes, because the effects of it are more far-reaching.
It is Muslims, not people of any other religious faith, that were (and continue to be) detained by the hundreds–without trial or charge–and holed away in the hell-hole known as Guantanamo Bay detention camp. This, even though it was known by the government that “the vast majority of detainees at Guantanamo were innocent.” Most Americans fail to realize the gravity of this injustice, and continue to believe–like mindless sheep–that the Gitmo prisoners are “the worst of the worst” and are evil Magneto-style villains. People of the future will be horrified that any sane person would think that this is necessary:
Who but the sickest and most deranged person could think this is OK?
Can you imagine the outcry had it been a Jewish person who had been imprisoned like so by our government? Even the idea is considered ludicrous.
Gitmo is just the tip of the iceberg. Thousands of Muslims have been imprisoned in Bagram (“the Other Guantanamo”) and there are probably tens of thousands Muslims that have been detained by the United States, without trial or charge, around the world. They are subjected to typical American forms of torture: solitary confinement (considered by human rights experts to be one of the worst forms of torture) and sexual harassment (including sodomy, rape, and having their testicles electrocuted). Mentally deranged guards routinely used dogs to torture the inmates.
Yes, it is Muslims who are the victims of these horrific crimes.
These abuses are carried out because the institution that is supposed to protect American citizens (including American Muslims)–the U.S. Armed Forces–has instead been, in the words of the hawkish Jeffrey Goldberg, ”waging a three-decade war for domination of the Middle East.” Quite predictably, the U.S. Armed Forces as an institution is rife with Islamophobia.
It is Muslim civilians who are being incinerated by our bombs, missiles, and drones. Over the course of the last two decades, the United States has directly or indirectly caused the deaths of over a million Muslims. America is dropping bombs on multiple Muslim countries (the list just keeps getting longer and longer); Americans feel comfortable dropping bombs on countries they can’t even locate on a map. These are Islamophobic wars that kill way more people than hate crimes do.
It is Muslims, not Jews or people of any other religion, who are the victims of civil liberty assaults and Endless War. Glenn Greenwald writes:
[W]ho are the prime victims of America’s posture of Endless War? Overwhelmingly, the victims are racial, ethnic and religious minorities: specifically, Muslims (both American Muslims and foreign nationals). And that is a major factor in why these abuses flourish: because those who dominate American political debates perceive, more or less accurately, that they are not directly endangered (at least for now) by this assault on core freedoms and Endless War…
To see how central a role this sort of selfish provincialism plays in shaping political priorities, just compare (a) the general indifference to Endless War and the massive civil liberties assaults… (ones largely confined to Muslims) to (b) the intense outrage and media orgy generated when a much milder form of invasiveness — TSA searches — affected Americans of all backgrounds. The success of Endless War and civil liberties attacks depends on ensuring that the prime victims, at least in the first instance, are marginalized and easily demonizable minorities.
It is Muslims who are the victims of such governmental abuses:
Assassination of U.S. citizens; Indefinite detention; Arbitrary justice; Warrantless searches; Secret evidence; War crimes; Secret court; Immunity from judicial review; Continual monitoring of citizens; and Extraordinary renditions.
It is absolutely crass to argue that there is more anti-Semitism in America than Islamophobia. There would be nothing less acceptable in our country than anti-Jewish Congressional hearings. One could simply not imagine imprisoning hundreds of Jews–without trial or charge–in Guantanamo Bay. If the United States caused the death of over a million Jews, people would be calling this the next Holocaust. Such things are simply unthinkable, except when Muslims are the intended victims.
Certainly, lone-wolf hate crimes are worrisome, and Jews are one of the most targeted groups in this regard. This is a serious concern that needs to be addressed–as does the fact that there has been such a steep rise in anti-Muslim hate crimes. But, we shouldn’t ignore institutionalized bigotry in America, which is even more worrisome. Muslims are the most vulnerable minority in this regard: they are the absolute lowest on the totem pole and get the dubious distinction of being the number one victims in this regard.
Lastly, it is very morbid the way the anti-Muslim cyber-world is pitting the Jewish community against the Muslim one. This is not a competition or game. Hate crimes are not points or goals. Jews, Muslims, and people of all faiths (or no faith at all) should unite together to fight bigotry and intolerance. After all, Jews are well aware of the tactics that were once primarily used against them but are now used against Muslims: it may be a different minority, but it’s the same message.
* * * * *
I encourage everyone to read Sheila Musaji’s take on the subject. It was her article that prompted me to weigh in on this issue.
Danios was the Brass Crescent Award Honorary Mention for Best Writer in 2010 and the Brass Crescent Award Winner for Best Writer in 2011.
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:46 pm
This world has become rotten.. And people are doing their best to make it even more rotten. We need to work harder than them if justice is to prevail, and without having to see more innocent blood. We don’t need any other Holocaust, and we don’t need more people like Breivik
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:48 pm
Unless we all see each other as humans first, I do not see this ending
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:55 pm
Yes, ironically whilst the vast majority in Guantanomo Bay were misled, and need help and education, to re-educate them, the ones who mislead them get away with it.
Not enough is being done to eradicate the idealogy of extremism in the Muslim world. More should be done.
Yes, Sheila Musaji is a great Islamophobe buster. I know that Ned May of Gates of Vienna is scared of her, just as Robert Spencer is scared of you.
You should make her a regular contributor here Danios. What gives her more credence is that she writes under her real name. That’s why I think you should too
You’re an underappreciated gem at the moment.
January 23rd, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Well, Inspired, why aren’t you posting under your own name?
January 23rd, 2012 at 5:33 pm
After the past ten years and the most recent NDAA and foreseeably worse “legal actions” of the future, I have decided to try my HARDEST to leave the united snakes as soon as possible… The US army’s reach is so far though, I am afraid that there is nowhere really to run…
January 23rd, 2012 at 5:45 pm
Reynardine, i’m a commenter here.
If I write anywhere, I am writing under my real name
That said, I am not against having commenters post with their real names, but I think that would be pushing it here. If the writers are anonymous here at Loon Watch, one can hardly call for commenters to write under their real names.
January 23rd, 2012 at 6:41 pm
“Not enough is being done to eradicate the idealogy of extremism in the Muslim world. More should be done.”
More needs to be done to eradicate the ideology of extremism in the US.
January 23rd, 2012 at 6:48 pm
Most of us are too damn passive or too scared to protest. I’m afraid nothing much will be done until it’s too late i.e. a Muslim Holocaust.
January 23rd, 2012 at 8:01 pm
I dunno if we are being passive, or scared… But, Most the Muslims I know, we fight by being ourselves… People are not afraid to ask us about our faith, and I know many people who are not Muslim who disagree with the way Muslims and other religious minorities are treated. Yes, the “Muslim Holocaust” may come, but most of us have resolved ourselves to just get as many people to see we are not evil/demonic/whateverspencercallsus/etc.
January 24th, 2012 at 12:49 am
Danios,
I have seen that many people want you to disclose your identity but I would ask you to reveal it when you think is the right time.
I am pretty sure, if these hatemongers know your identity, they would find something against you or most probably manufacture something to destroy your image and hence will succeed in destroying your work too.
good luck Danios, you are really a pain in their b….!
January 24th, 2012 at 1:41 am
Lilly, I agree and I think that is the best course of action. We should just Keep Calm and Carry On as the old poster used to say. Screaming and shouting at every little thing with the phrase ‘Islamaphobia!’ doesn’t help us. Yes, Islamapobia does exist, but I think the word is way to overused for every little thing, it harms our case.
We should seek to be ‘ambassadors’ for our faith, I wrote on a similar topic last year:
http://thepenofawanderingstranger.com/personal/dawa-and-why-i-dont-do-it/
Jack
January 24th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
Why don’t we first demand the muslim governments in the middle east properly educate their imams who demonize Jews while bashing Israel at the same time?
It’s fine to hate Israel and what their government is doing.
Just leave the “Jews are apes and pigs” rhetoric out and muslims will get enormous support like what the Black South Africans did during the apartheid era.
January 24th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
Wow! This was a good piece. I bet Spencer had stomach ulcers readings this!
January 24th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
Ron Paul 2012.
January 24th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
This kind of unconstitutional abuse is an abomination. Gitmo needs to be closed ASAP. Period.
January 24th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
The soldiers and those responsible for this abuse should get maximum punishment for their Islamophobic actions.
It is almost like they are actually proud of the abuse they are commiting…
January 24th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
Skeptic, I think that what happens with certain government sanctioned religious groups is despicable and should be stopped. It is a hallmark of the influence Christian antisemitism had on the Arab world, a sad legacy we should do our best to shake off. Maybe with the new regimes things will change; blaming The Jews (TM) was always a thing done by dictators to deflect blame from themselves. We shall see.
Jack
January 24th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
Spencer is a complete fool who hides behind a scholarly guise. The Schmuck needs to be debunked on national TV, much in the same manner that clown Shoebat was.
January 24th, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Peter King, boy would I enjoy punching him square in that ugly dumbass goblin like face of his.
This Islamophobic control of our institutions needs to be completely and effectively reversed. This fear mongering and hatred can continue no longer. All Islamophobic policies must meet their death.
January 24th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Islamophobia undoubtedly does exist. Anyone who claims the contrary should not be taken seriously.
January 24th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
The USA is a power hungry Imperialistic, barbaric, savage, power hungry, and oppressive country that brainwashes it’s citizens with words like “defense” or “national security” and then abusing usage f these terms, convinces it’s citizens that it’s imperialist wars in the Muslim world are actually meant for national security. It is a prime example of classical Orwellian manipulation. Down with American Imperialism!!! DOWN WITH IT!!!
RON PAUL 2012!
January 24th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
@Jack Cope,
Well good luck with that. I don’t think the middle east is gonna change much in the near future on that front.
Seeing that the most successful muslim countries of Malaysia,Indonesia and Turkey don’t seem to have a proper holocaust lessons in their education systems so anti-semitic incidents/rants seem quite rampant there.
January 24th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
Skeptic, Israel doesn’t have a proper Bosnian Genocide lesson in their education system so Islamophobic incidents/rants seem quite rampant there too.
January 24th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Skeptic
You misunderstood what Jack Cope said.
Anti Semitism in the Muslim world has been taken there by European colonials. It didn’t exist prior. It’s a Christian thing, and it is actively promoted more by Christian Arabs. When European Christians went there, Christian Arabs were more receptive to the Christ killer myth.
Even Islamophobic Jews assert this. It has nothing to do with Holocaust lessons.
January 24th, 2012 at 5:54 pm
Skeptic, let me continue on other’s points.
As Khushboo said, what relevance does having lessons about the Holocaust have to do with antisemitism? It is European History, rather small minded to think that somehow Europe is the most important place in the world! To an Asian the Holocaust is largely unimportant when compared to what happened to their own peoples under the Japanese at the same time. The same applies to Turks and other Muslim groups; we really played no part in it all.
Why don’t European students learn about the Rape of Nanking? The Indonesian Independence War? Or the Cultural Revolution? There are three extremely bloody, at times genocidal, events in Asian history that are taught here but get no real mention in ‘western’ schools. I found it quite amusing teaching students in Asia what we call ‘history’ for their A-Level exams, all the stuff about Europe and the US, while their people and nations never really featured.
To continue on teaching of the Holocaust, why are people not taught or even aware about what happened in Stalin’s Russia? The body count was higher for one thing, it was genocide and lots of religious minorities were exterminated (Jews included). What is so ‘special’ about the Holocaust that it must occupy so much of our time and space… and why do I get shouted down for asking that question. Oh and yes, I accept it was a terrible event, but a terrible event standing amongst a whole mass of terrible events.
Now to Inspired by Mohammad’s points, she does get what I was talking about (thank you!). As she states, what relevance does most antisemitism have to Muslims? Very little and there is no grounding for it in our texts.
It is a rather embarrassing part of our history, both for Muslims and for Christians (but for different reasons), that antisemitic ideas transited via Christianity to the Muslim world. For example, the first translation of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was done by an Arab Christian in 1927 or 1928, no translation by a Muslim existed until 1951 when opposition to Israel was starting to get big.
From this alone we get a clearer picture of why the antisemitism exists; not for religious reasons but for nationalistic ones. And as I said, the changes in the Arab world will no doubt change this. The dictators of old had a useful punchbag in Israel, one they could use to distract while secretly supporting its existence. I hope the new regimes have no need for any of this nonsense.
Jack
January 24th, 2012 at 5:54 pm
Ignorant Khushboo, probably picked up this line from AJ. Unaware of the close relations between Bosnia and Israel, she proves herself to be a fine example of what Skeptic described above.
————
Jewish and Israeli Support for Bosnian Muslims
http://bosniakandjewishfriendship.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/jewish-and-israeli-support-for-bosnian-muslims/
The Mayor of Jerusalem Teddy Kollek and the holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel both signed the petition urging the World to bomb the Serbs in 1993 and lift the discriminatory arms embargo against the Bosniaks. Wiesel publicly protested the systematic slaughter of 8,000 Bosniaks in Srebrenica calling the Serb leader, Radovan Karadzic, pigheaded liar for denying the masssacre.
———–
And let us not forget: Israel was the first country in the entire world to help Bosnian Muslims by accepting Bosniak refugees in February 1993
Israel was the First Country to Help Bosnian Muslims
http://bosniakandjewishfriendship.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/israel-was-the-first-country-to-help-bosnian-muslims/
January 24th, 2012 at 6:01 pm
@Danios:
During the last few weeks ive been trying to educate myself on Islam, and I find everything you have written extremly helpfull. Your writings are brilliant and always with that hint of sarcasm. You want to take a go at this “three stages of Jihad” non- sense as well?
January 24th, 2012 at 8:10 pm
Skeptic…
In 1965, I was in a town near Banda Aceh, in Indonesia. At this time, I was going through the family, visiting all I could because I was to start universiti studies on a scholarship in Penang.
I have family there, although I am a Malaysian citizen, in those days, people didnt mind the borders, because if you can imagine living near the Canadian border, and an American, it is the same thing.
During the time I was there, the government elected by the people of Indonesia was overthrown. A man was “installed” with the blessing of the west by the name of Saharto. Being far away from Jakarta, we really didnt think anything of it…until about a week later, when Indonesian soldiers came to the kampung we were in.
To keep my dignity as a woman, and as a human being, I will never tell what I had to do to leave the nightmare that the place had become. To me, this was THE HOLOCAUST. Not one in a book, or story from land far away…but one I lived, and only by the mercy of Allah, did not die.
Later in history, we found that 500 thousand Indonesians died in the ‘ideolgical war’, many of them never understood. All throughout IndoChina, people suffered, and this was a part of the war you call Viet Nam.
To me, all war is a holocaust, and there were many autrocities in thier context. To me, a Jewish mother crying for her baby is no more worthy of our rememberance than a Russian, or a Chinese, or an Israeli or Palistinian mother.
Perhaps you now understand that although the history of the Jewish suffering in Europe is important to a Malaysian…we learn also about the people we relate to, that look like us, where we can pronouce thier names, and that can tell us in thier own language, and say the places we know, but not from books or museums, or rememberance monuments…but from our own photo albums, through the tears of your grandparents.
I dont know if your are Jewish, or know any Jewish people personally that have told you of thier suffering…but history to us is not in books. History to us is legacy.
January 24th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
inspired, I’m talking about Bosnian Genocide in their education system. If there was education, there would be more sympathy towards Muslim Palestinians and what they’re going through.
LW did a coverage where teenagers were being taught to shoot at practice targets with palestinian headgears. I blame the Regime for this ofcourse, not the majority of Israel.
So stop trying to twist my words around! You’re trying your best to villainize me to make yourself look good but in reality you’re just an Israel a$$ kisser like most corrupt politicians.
Oh and another thing, just because AJ and I agree on something doesn’t mean we’re in “cohoots” or that we’re related. You just love jumping to ridiculous conclusions!
January 25th, 2012 at 3:21 am
@Jack Cope/Nur Alia,
Perhaps why I’m Pessimistic because of the Islamists are slowly taking over the old dictators of countries like Tunisia and Egypt.
I have seen clips of them on youtube and many other video sites on how they deny the holocaust.
I’ve also heard horror stories of the Indonesian regime’s crime against the Indonesian Chinese communities from a colleague of mine.
If things in the middle east or any other muslim countries were to improve for the better, all this have to stop.
January 25th, 2012 at 5:01 am
I agree with you on many points there Skeptic and I myself have written extensively on the need for people to speak out. This I wrote today and the last bit is more relevant to what we are saying here. I’ll admit that the post is pretty crappy, but you get the gist:
http://thepenofawanderingstranger.com/personal/the-muslim-world-needs-more-heroes/
I think a lot of people are becoming more aware now, and that can only be a good thing. We just need more…
Jack
January 25th, 2012 at 8:44 am
Be careful with the word “Islamist” Skeptic. Islamists rising in Egypt does not mean that they are radicals or terrorists. Their definition of “Islamists” is different from the West’s definition. “Islamists” to Egyptians simply means religious people. Muslim Brotherhood has done alot for them so ofcourse the majority will be voting for them. Muslim Brotherhood has become much more moderate than they used to be decades ago and they’ll be too busy cleaning up their own country than worrying about what Israel is doing to the Palestinians in case that’s what you’re worried about.
You may have seen clips of people denying the holocaust but that doesn’t represent the majority of them.
What we should be concerned about is what’s happening now that the military has taken over brutally killing thousands of innocent protestors yet no one cares. All they care about is what might happen in the future and how it will affect Israel.
Arab League hasn’t done a damn thing either!
January 25th, 2012 at 9:19 am
correction: killing thousands of protestors in Syria and hundreds in Egypt (1200 incarcerated).
January 25th, 2012 at 10:01 am
I just don’t buy a word of it. Egyptian mainstream Jew/Israel hate is mainstream:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-middle-east-14911786
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2011/12/egypts-mufti-threatens-israel.html
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/01/egyptian-minister-israel-is-1-enemy-of.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcjpTyflYmM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GvsNFWRbM0
@Skeptic
I don’t think this so called Arab spring will end well Libya looks like it will have Sharia as the basis for its constitution, so called “moderate” Islamists in: Tunisia, Morocco who have been sending out some very duplicitous messages then there is Egypt with the Salafists/Brotherhood. Where there is Jew/Israel hate mixed with Sharia an innate and hysterical hate there is no help for those people.
“Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood, Mohamed Morsi, told Hamas’ Khaled Meshal that his organization supports the establishment of a Palestinian state “on the entire occupied land” as well as the Palestinian “right of return.”
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/01/muslim-brotherhood-in-egypt-calls-for.html
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/01/muslim-brotherhood-in-egypt-insists-it.html
“Dr. Rashad Bayoumi, deputy leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, told the newspaper Al Hayat of London in an interview published Sunday: “Is there a requirement that the government recognize Israel? .. This is not an option at all, whatever the circumstances, we will not recognize Israel at all, they are an usurping criminal enemy occupier entity.”
He stressed that the Brotherhood “will not recognize the state of Israel under any circumstances,” suggesting that the group “would put a peace treaty with Israel to a referendum.”
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/01/egyptians-plan-to-block-jews-from.html
Even the Pew Research polls don’t fill me with much hope.
Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt insists it will never recognize Israel
January 25th, 2012 at 11:16 am
In fact, Musaji points out that there was a 50% increase in the number of reported anti-Muslim hate crimes. Any reasonable person would think this trend to be concerning and ask: what is causing this steep rise in anti-Muslim hate crimes?
This brings me to my second (and main) point: it is Muslims, not Jews or people of any other faith, who are the number one victims of institutionalized bigotry in America. This is something more pernicious than lone-wolf hate crimes, because the effects of it are more far-reaching.
While I abhor any hate crime against people of any religion, your statements here are very misleading. Yes, the increase of hate crimes against Muslims was 50% higher than last year, that constitutes 53 more cases than last year- from 107 to 160. But you have failed to show the percentages, which would make it clearer in all respects. From statistics available 2009 70% of all reported hate crime was against Jews; in 2010 it was 65.4%. In 2009 there was 8.4% hate crimes against Muslims and in 2010 it 13.2%. That constitutes just over 3% increase overall. When you actually combine all other religious groups including Muslims, it is a quarter of the overall crimes except Jews. Going back to 2004, hate crimes against Jews has been 5 times that of Muslims.
I don’t think that there needs to be hysteria here. The statistical trends need to be monitored closely, I agree. But when hate crimes against Muslims climbs to 500 from 160, then I think action needs to be taken. I pray that is not the case this year.
January 25th, 2012 at 12:00 pm
@twice, elderofzion and youtube? you’re really going to rely on them as facts? Really?? You’re not buying it because you don’t want to buy it. No info. will convince you otherwise. You’re wasting time here.
January 25th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
“Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt insists it will never recognize Israel”
Just like Newt thinks Palestinians don’t exist. So what?!
January 26th, 2012 at 11:55 am
@Khushboo,
“Just like Newt thinks Palestinians don’t exist. So what?!”
It matters because this is about the middle east and not the united states.
If Muslims can come to terms about respecting jews properly without denying the holocaust and distinguishing Jews and Israel, They would have gotten the respect that the black south africans used to have during the apartheid era around the world.
Israel would have to let hold their grip by now.
January 26th, 2012 at 12:28 pm
@khushboo
I can tell you haven’t actually checked the links. I’m referring to speeches by the Clerics themselves where it is on video. Second point check the sources on his blogs which you haven’t done they are independent news agencies you can use google translate as some are in Arabic. So please do no insult my honesty and integrity.
What do you expect if THEY made statements on camera that is translated from MEMRI/PALWATCH etc or they have Arabic news sources. It really would help if you actually could prove what the links of the statements made are false from checking sources directly. What’s next the LEFT-WING anti-Israel BBC wrong to right. You are really living in denial. I can even present what Sheik Qadawi said and even that wouldn’t be enough even though he has huge sway with the Arabs/Muslims.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-middle-east-14911786
“You’re not buying it because you don’t want to buy it. No info. will convince you otherwise. You’re wasting time here.” – I’m putting it into perspective. Muslims certainly aren’t the victims they claim especially in the West, compared to other groups and that much of the wicked on others is being done by Muslims. If you don’t like it, tough – your problem, can’t take or read what I’ve linked by the sources, tough – your problem. I don’t need to lie its in black and white and from their mouths.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-reason-why-the-egyptians-hate-us-1.381074
***ARABIC SOURCES***
http://paltoday.ps/ar/post/126145/%D9%85%D9%81%D8%AA%D9%8A-%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1-%D9%8A%D8%AD%D8%B0%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AD%D8%AA%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%84-%D9%85%D9%86-%D8%BA%D8%B6%D8%A8-%D9%85%D9%84%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D9%88-%D9%86%D8%B5%D9%81-%D9%85%D8%B3%D9%84%D9%85
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/node/616516
http://www.youm7.com/News.asp?NewsID=583449
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/node/577881
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/01/egyptians-plan-to-block-jews-from.html
@Skeptic
They will never ever accept Israel as a Jewish nation state but want a Palestinian nation state for the Palestinian people. One which incidentally like Gaza will be 100% free. All that you need to do is listen to their media, read what they say in Arabic, the countless terrorist attacks 10,000 rockets. They could have had peace so many times but they’d rather not have one than Israel to exist. Its not going anywhere.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/128897#.TyGYvcW29_g
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-09-13/palestinian-israeli-jews-future-state-israel-PLO/50394882/1
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4122473,00.html
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
http://www.haaretz.com/news/abbas-olmert-offered-pa-land-equaling-100-of-west-bank-1.1747
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/000555.html
January 26th, 2012 at 7:44 pm
twiceasnice, you’re not really ‘putting it into perspective’, rather you are exclusively showing one side of the story.
And as I said, the ‘antisemitism’ is all linked to the fact that Israel exists, I sort of understand it. To the Arabs Israel is a nation that was built without their permission on land that they consider their own. I know you’d get pissed off if someone came and said that your house now belongs to them.
This however will go somewhere, it will lead to peace. Times change, the younger generations have less ‘connection’ to what happened in the 1940′s and 50′s, less reason to care. Just you wait.
Jack
January 26th, 2012 at 10:53 pm
Jack Cope
You seem okay from what I’ve read of your comments. I do disagree with you regarding Israel though. Jews were being massacred well before the creation of modern Israel and were subject to various progroms in Arab lands. As a mother I hope you its true, I don’t want my child going to get blown up or go into the army. When I was a girl my mother said to me that I’ll never need to go into the military. Sadly its she was wrong. I’ll openly admit that I believe in the Jewish peoples right to self-determination in our own homeland. I did believe in two-states. I don’t any more. However, I’m a huge critic of Israel attack the religion, crazy Rabbis and other social issues so don’t think I blind about things I care about. Anyway be well. I’m looking for believingatheist…..
January 27th, 2012 at 7:05 am
Islamophobia (irrational feat of Islam)???
There is nothing irrational about fear of the influence of a supremacist,fascist,tota
Itarian culture.
Islamonausea is a more accurate definition of the regatd in which Mohammedans are held.
If for example one disagrees with the dogma of the Ku Klux Klan are individuals who fnd the KKK
guilty of Klanophobia?
And are Mohammedans who are not in agreement with we infidels guilty of Kufrophobia?
Freedom of speech means that we can mock and deride Islam to our heart’s content.
And you Mohammedans can object if you want to.
If it were not for specious fatwas onartists(Salman Rushdie),book burning,arson attacks,suicide bombings,religious endorsement of ritual mutilation of minors,sactified domestic violence.an instant
claom of exclusivity jointly backed by egregios violence or its threatened use.
Then no none Mohammedan would be writing anything of consequence in the blogosphere!
January 27th, 2012 at 7:46 am
“There is nothing irrational about fear of the influence of a supremacist,fascist,totaItarian culture”
Hey Fatty, put your snacks away and read the Quran to get the real facts you dumb bigot!
January 27th, 2012 at 10:29 am
twiceasnice, I try my best to bring peace to the world. I might fail miserably but I think one should try. Like you I’ve seen to much war to have a stomach for any more bloodshed… I think that all those who call for war should first see it for themselves.
Anyway, I’m going to go on a bit here so feel free to either skip through or not respond to my points, just let me know you read it even if you disagree (though I’d welcome a longer discussion of course).
First of all, while it is correct that Jews and other minorities were sadly subject to many terrible things they were never on the scale of what happened in Christian lands. As I said, Islam has no religious grounding to hate Jews, we are rather commanded to treat them as protected persons (so long as they are not at war with us of course). Our two faiths are largely similar, so are our ‘native’ languages that we pray in.
This is a stark contrast to Christian beliefs such as Jewish Decide which has over time called for them to be attacked. Even when Jews were treated better in Christian lands it was often for some other motive; for example Jews were allowed to settle in European countries because Christian thinkers at the time believed that for the end of times to come, Jews had to be in every nation. This is similar to some Christian views on Israel today.
Thus we have to look elsewhere for the spate of antisemitism in the Muslim world… and as I said it is largely down to the nationalistic sentiments that came with the creation of Israel as well as the aforementioned flood of Christian antisemitic propaganda.
Will it die out? I think so, we only have to look at history. I am not sure how much you know of Ireland and the British-Irish conflict over Northern Island but perhaps you know enough to know that there is some sort of peace over there. Ireland is a lot like the Israel situation in many ways; immigrants of a similar but separate faith (Protestantism) being settled into an area that ‘belongs’ to someone else (Catholics) and then taking that land.
In fact… the Protestants took all of Island for a few generations until in 1921 it was divided into Eire (a separate Catholic state) and Northern Island (a largely Protestant territory with a Catholic minority as part of the UK). Wars were fought, blood shed, terrorists attacked from both sides and armies clashed with civilians, civilians took up arms against armies… right up until the late 1990′s when we had peace deals signed.
Yes, Northern Ireland is still a troubled place, only a few weeks ago there were more bombings, but it is far better. Why? Because people tire of war, they lay down their arms and get on with life. As the new generations come in they have less and less to care about from the past. So what if Great-Granddad was forced out of his home in 1910? I live here now.
The situation is identical in so many ways to Israel. A conflict divided on ‘religious’ grounds but in reality all about nationalism… with the UK as Israel and Eire as Palestine, the British Army as the IDF and the IRA as Hamas. I see no reason why what happens today in the Middle East will not go the same way. Maybe our grandchildren will know peace, no I am sure they will!
We just need to do what we are doing now, talk to each other and realize, as you said that ‘you seem okay’. We see each other as humans and we learn to live with each other.
Now that I have to turn into an article for the newspaper
Jack
January 27th, 2012 at 12:00 pm
@jack cope,
Yes there are similarities of antipathy between the two sets of Christians in Northetn Ireland and the Jews and Arabs in Israel;but it’s a very superficial difference.
The two NI groups speak the same language and those that are militant are in a very tiny minority.
(the neighbours in the Irish Republic don’t give a toss)sectarianism hardly exists at all(I lived in Dublin
until just recently for 10 years)
What I’m really happy about is the atrophy of Catholicism in the republic and the growth of secularism
and atheism.
Peace in the North is pretty well established and apart from a few extremist head cases will continue to flourish.
For a similar situation to occur in Israel then Mohammedanism must die ,hopefully together with the more extreme versions of Judeism.
Get rid of the imaginary sky monsters and give people the chance to get to know one another.
January 27th, 2012 at 12:22 pm
“For a similar situation to occur in Israel then Mohammedanism must die ,hopefully together with the more extreme versions of Judeism.”
Not at all, all that needs to ‘die’ are extremists. I don’t think that atheism is the answer to anything, the communists were atheists and they killed rather large numbers of people.
But yes I agree, once one gets to know ones neighbors then it all dies down. We aren’t all that different in reality.
Jack
January 27th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
@Jack Cope: You say, “First of all, while it is correct that Jews and other minorities were sadly subject to many terrible things they were never on the scale of what happened in Christian lands. As I said, Islam has no religious grounding to hate Jews, we are rather commanded to treat them as protected persons (so long as they are not at war with us of course). Our two faiths are largely similar, so are our ‘native’ languages that we pray in.”
I think the view is more nuanced. I treasure the pro-Jewish statements in the Qur’an and later Islamic thinking, but it would be a mistake to think that there are not other statements that can (and have) been used in an anti-Jewish way. I won’t repeat those, but anyone who has been on certain websites will know that they are repeated there ad nauseum, generally to the exclusion of all the positive ones.
The best treatment I have seen about anti-Jewish sentiment in the Muslim world, and why up until recently it was generally much less than that found in Christian lands, is Mark Cohen’s Under Crescent and Cross. (Hat tip to Danios for mentioning the book in one of his articles, which is what caused me to purchase it.) To say “Islam has no religious grounding to hate Jews” is, per the title of this article, a bit of an outlandish claim. But I have not personally met a Muslim who I believe adopted those views over those that call for Muslims to do good to all people. And, as you say, “[o]ur two faiths are largely similar,” and I have had much more interesting and illuminating discussions of religion with Muslims than with Christians as a result.
January 27th, 2012 at 6:31 pm
Sad!
January 27th, 2012 at 6:43 pm
For a similar situation to occur in Israel then Mohammedanism must die, hopefully together with the more extreme versions of Judaism.
That’s false. Jewish and Christian and muslim Palestinians lived as near neighbors, in peace, and cooperatively, from the time that Palestine was liberated from the Byzantine/Roman/Persian occupation until the early years of the Twentieth Century, after Baron Rothschild (and others) had started buying land from absentee landlords for the Eastern European Ashkenazim successors of the nationalist pharisees and scribes, and Hitler began shipping Czechoslovakian arms and military-trained Jewish Germans to the Irgun, the Stern Gang, and the Palmach brigades.
History didn’t start when you started listening to zionist propaganda.
January 29th, 2012 at 8:18 am
> “I treasure the pro-Jewish statements in the Qur’an and later Islamic thinking, but it would be a mistake to think that there are not other statements that can (and have) been used in an anti-Jewish way. I won’t repeat those”
@Just Stopping By
Salaam, you’re right by saying that some fundamentalist Muslims with their ill-intentioned Sites may have distorted some passages of the Qur’an to suit their narrow views-(remember cuckoo-uncle OBL?), we all have those crazzzy uncles….. But there are no what we can call “anti Jewish” sentiments in the Qur’an…. I understand it may seem as such to the untrained or unfamiliar eye that haven’t read the Qur’an in it’s entirety and context, but those passages that seem “anti-Jew” to some, are not at all….. What the Qur’an in those seem “unfriendly” passages states or “report” if you will, are criticism based on the behaviours of some and not all Jews, displayed in various stages since “the Covenant” with Allah according to Qur’an… But even more telling is, I believe most of those criticism stated in the Quran are also reported in the Bible, for example the episode of the Golden Calf, and the violation of the Sabbath by some Jews during stages of Judaism….Anyway here’s what Aisha Y. Musa say in her article on the subject, that may give you more clearing views of what the Qur’an states about Jews.
1– Today, it often seems as if the relations between Muslims and Jews are dominated by bigotry, intolerance, and even downright hostility. Some claim that Muslim hostility toward Jews is taught in the Qur’an itself. How does the Qur’an portray the Jews? Is it inherently hostile toward them? Are they described, as some have claimed, as apes and swine”? The simple answer to the latter question is no, the Qur’an never says the Jews are “apes and swine”
2– There are approximately 60 verses in the Qur’an that speak directly about or to the Jews. Two thirds of these use the phrase “Children of Israel” (bani Isra’il), others use the terms “Jews” (yahud) or “those who are Jewish” (alladhina hadu). In addition to verses specifically about or addressing the Jews, the Qur’an also speaks of the people of the Book (ahl al-kitab) and “those who have been given the Book” (alladhina utu al-kitab). These verses are generally understood to refer to both the Christians and the Jews, those who received the scriptures which preceded the Qur’an. The Qur’an also mentions the Torah more than a dozen times. In addition to the variety of verses that speak to or about the Jews, chapter 17 of the Qur’an is entitled “The Children of Israel.”
3– In order to better understand the Qur’an’s portrayal of the Jews it is important to understand the Qur’an’s portrayal of religion itself. Right religion, according to the Qur’an, is submission to God (lit. islam in Arabic). Those who submit to God are, by literal definition, muslim. Thus, islam, in its generic, literal meaning is the religion of all the prophets and messengers from Noah to Abraham to Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad, according to the Qur’an (10:71-72, 84; 2:128-131; 5:110-111). All of the prophets before Muhammad were thus, according to the Qur’an, muslim, as were those who believed them and followed them. The children of Israel enjoy a special status: “O children of Israel, remember my favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I favored you above all creation.” (Qur’an 2:47, 2:122). *
4– The Qur’an discusses God’s favors and covenant with the Children of Israel in detail:
O children of Israel, indeed we delivered you from your enemy and made a covenant with you on the right side of the mountain, and we sent down for you manna and quails. (20:80) *
Indeed we gave the children of Israel the Book, and wisdom, and the prophecy, and we provided them with good things and favored them above all creation. (45:16) *
We made a covenant with the children of Israel: “Serve none except God. Be good to parents, relatives, orphans, and the poor. Speak kindly to people. Establish prayer and give alms.” Afterward, you turned away, except a few of you, and you were averse. (2:83) *
to be continue….
January 29th, 2012 at 8:55 am
Continue…
5- Their special status and covenant with God gives the children of Israel a great responsibility: the responsibility to uphold the covenant and abide by the law and guidance God has given them. So, what of the Qur’an’s criticism of Jews? An indication of the problem appears at the end of verse 2:83, above: Afterward, you turned away, except a few of you, and you were averse. Just as it provides details of God’s favors and covenant with the children of Israel, the Qur’an also discusses violations of that covenant.
Moses came to you with clear proofs, yet you took the calf [for worship] in his absence, and you turned wicked. (Qur’an 2:92) *
We made a covenant with you, that you not shed each others’ blood, nor evict each other from your homes. You agreed and bore witness. Yet it is you who are killing each other and evicting a group among you from their homes, supporting each other against them unlawfully and aggressively; and if they should come to you as captives you would ransom them—while evicting them was unlawful for you. Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other? (Qur’an 2:84-85) *
You have known those among you who violated the Sabbath, so we said to them: “Be despicable ape.” (Qur’an 2:65)
6- It is in a similar context that the Qur’an uses the term “apes and swine,” in Qur’an 5:60, though in that verse, it is not said in reference to Jews. Here is 5:60 in its entirety.
Say: “Shall I inform you of something worse in the sight of God: those whom God has cursed and with whom he is angry, and he has made some of them apes and swine and servants of evil. These are in a worse position and more astray from the even path.” *
While some people may claim that the above refers specifically to the Jews, reading the verse in its context shows this is not necessarily accurate. This is clear from verses 5:57-58.
O you who believe, do not befriend those who make a mockery of your religion from among those who were given the Book before you or the disbelievers. Reverence God, if you are truly believers. When you call to prayer they make a mockery and a game of it. This is because they are a people who do not understand. *
7- As these verses show, the discussion is about those who make a mockery of religion, whether they are those who received previous scripture or those who are disbelievers. Of course, Jews are among those who received previous scripture, which is the basis of the claim that verse 5:60 refers to Jews. However, there is no Qur’anic basis for claiming that it refers exclusively or even primarily to Jews. The emphasis in the discussion is not the religion of, or lack thereof, of those with whom God was so angry that he cursed them and some of them apes, swine, and servants of evil. The emphasis is on the actions that may lead to such retribution from God—making a mockery of the religion of those who believe in God and in a scripture the mockers do not accept. Some of those mockers are among those who received previous scriptures:
Say, “O people of the scripture, do you resent us because we believe in God, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down before us, and because most of you are not righteous?” (Qur’an 5:59) *
But does this mean all of those who received the previous scripture? Other verses of the Qur’an make it clear that it is not.
They are not all alike; among the people of the Book there is an upstanding community. They recite God’s revelations through the night, and they fall prostrate. They believe in God and the last day. They advocate good and forbid evil, and they hasten to do good works. These are among the righteous. Whatever good they do will not be denied. God knows those who are reverent. (Qur’an 3:113-115). *
Surely those who believe, those who are Jews, the Sabians, and the Christians, whoever believes in God and the last day and does good, has nothing to fear nor will they grieve. (Qur’an 5:69) *
8- The above verses clearly extend the promise of God to all who believe and do good, whether they are believers in the Qur’an or not. Those who are criticized in the Qur’an are those who fail to uphold their covenant with God. Nothing in the Qur’an calls on the Jews to abandon the Torah in favor of the Qur’an. Quite the opposite. The Qur’an repeated declares that it comes to confirm the previous scripture, not to supplant it. Indeed, the Qur’an criticizes the Jews of Medina for coming to Muhammad for judgment when they had the Torah:
How do they make you a judge while they have the Torah in which is God’s law? Then they turn back after that—these are not believers. (Qur’an 5:43) *
The following verse further emphasizes the importance of the Torah, and the fact that those who follow it are submitting to God.
We sent down the Torah, in which there is guidance and light, by which the prophets who submitted judged the Jews, as did the rabbis and the priests, according to what they were required to observe of God’s Book, and thereunto were they witnesses. So do not fear people, but fear me, and do not sell my signs for minor gain. Whoever does not judge by what God has sent down are disbelievers. (Qur’an 5:44) *
Considering all of these verses, whether they are speaking to or about the children of Israel, or the Jews, or people of the Book, it is clear that Qur’anic criticism and condemnation is aimed not at the Jews as a people, but only at those among them who fail to reverence God and uphold their covenant with Him. Moreover, the Qur’an calls on Jews to adhere to what God has sent down in the Torah. So, if a Jew recognizes Muhammad as a messenger and the Qur’an as God’s Book, should follow the Torah. To do otherwise would be to disobey the Qur’an. The Qur’an also offers a clear remedy for religious bigotry and intolerance:
comparison for it; therefore judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their low desires, turning away the truth that has come to you; for each of you we have ordained a law and a way of doing things. If God wished, He would have made you a single community, but he tests you according to what he has given you, so compete with each other in doing good. Your return is to God, and then He will let you know about that in which you differed. (Qur’an 5:48) *
9- Let us consider these words from the Qur’an with care and open our minds and our hearts to the possibility of accepting that God has given our communities different traditions and practices by which we serve Him, so that we can begin to compete with each other in doing good for His sake and our own.
@Just Stopping By, I know it’s a long read and I’m sorry for the length, but I had to post this article in order also for the “loons” to read it, who usually never bother to find this kind of articles that gives a very different perspective from what they usually get from their Islamophobic Sites, then comes here to “transmit” the message of what the Qur’an been “saying” about Jews, but I don’t hold my breath they’ll read it anyway….While I don’t really care what the loons might thinks about it, I certainly hope it will be a good read for you bro or sis… Salaamu Alaikum.
January 29th, 2012 at 10:10 am
@Géji:
Thank you for those informative posts. I have gone through them once, but given how much they explain, I will obviously need to review them a few times to get a better understanding.
I hope that I was not unclear when I said “it would be a mistake to think that there are not other statements that can (and have) been used in an anti-Jewish way.” Note that I said that those statments “can (and have been) used in an anti-Jewish way,” not that those statements “are anti-Jewish.”
While I do find that certain statements look troubling out of context (whether in Islam, Christianity, or Judaism), my experience is that people looking to truly know other nations and tribes will limit the scope of the negative words while those looking to condemn others will argue that such statements are universal truths.
Wa aleikum salaam, akhi / akhti.