Benjamin Netanyahu
Do we even have to spell out a “what if…” scenario here?
MJ Rosenberg has a great piece on the assassination campaign against Iranian scientists and its implications.
Assassination in Tehran: An act of war?
by MJ Rosenberg (AlJazeera English)
Washington, DC - I rarely learn anything meaningful from reading The Atlantic‘s Jeffrey Goldberg. In my opinion, his tight relationship with the Israeli government and its lobby here greatly influences his take on both foreign and domestic events. Although he occasionally deviates from the Israeli line, he not only appears very uncomfortable doing so, he tends to correct course fairly rapidly.
Nonetheless, in a Goldberg column about Iran this week, there was one paragraph that was dead-on and which he will have a hard time taking back (should he be so inclined).
Writing about a piece in the current edition of Foreign Affairs that endorses bombing Iran as a neat and cost-free way to address its nuclear programme, Goldberg explains why he thinks the author, Council on Foreign Relations fellow Matthew Kroenig, is wrong. Goldberg says he now believes:
…that advocates of an attack on Iran today would be exchanging a theoretical nightmare – an Iran with nukes – for an actual nightmare: A potentially out-of-control conventional war raging across the Middle East that could cost the lives of thousands Iranians, Israelis, Gulf Arabs and even American servicemen.
Think about that for a minute. Uber-hawk Jeffrey Goldberg is saying that the threat posed by Iran is a “theoretical nightmare” while a war ostensibly to neutralise that threat would present an “actual nightmare”.
No critic of US policy toward Iran could say it better or would say it differently. And why would we?
According to the International Atomic Energy Agency, Iran has not yet made the decision to go nuclear. Speaking to CBS’ Face the Nation last Sunday, Defence Secretary Leon Panetta made the same point. Iran is not working on the bomb.
We do know, as Goldberg says, that a “potentially out-of-control conventional war raging across the Middle East” could “cost the lives of thousands of Iranians, Israelis, Gulf Arabs and even American servicemen”.
And that makes the decision against war a no-brainer. As Goldberg puts it:
Now that sanctions seem to be biting – in other words, now that Iran’s leaders understand the President’s seriousness on the issue – the Iranians just might be willing to pay more attention to proposals about an alternative course.
That alternative course would be an attempt “to try one more time to reach out to the Iranian leadership in order to avoid a military confrontation over Tehran’s nuclear programme”.
In short, dialogue.
The US, to this day, has never attempted a true dialogue with Tehran. Even under President Obama, all we have done is issue demands about its nuclear programme and offer to meet to discuss precisely how they comply with those demands.
That is not dialogue and it’s not negotiation; it’s an ultimatum.
The one attempt at dialogue (i.e., a discussion that involves give and take by both sides) was initiated by the Iranian government in 2003. That was when it proposed, according to the Washington Post, “a broad dialogue with the United States,” in which “everything was on the table – including full co-operation on nuclear programmes, acceptance of Israel and the termination of Iranian support for Palestinian militant groups”. In exchange, Iran wanted normalisation of relations with the United States.
As is well known, the United States did not respond. In fact, we chastised the Swiss intermediary who delivered the offer for having the temerity to do so.
It was us, not Iran, that spurned a process that would have led to improved relations.
Rather than diplomacy, we’ve pursued a policy of sanctions, which we escalate every time the war lobby demands them.
But sanctions will not prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapon capability, nor will “regime change”, considering that Iranians across the political spectrum support the Iranian nuclear programme. The only effect sanctions have is to please AIPAC, which has made confronting Iran central to its mission. AIPAC writes the sanctions bills, Congress passes them, the president signs them, and the Iranian people (not the regime) bear the brunt of the effects. (The politicians who endorse such measures, however, quite often are well rewarded.)
Goldberg deserves some credit for calling for dialogue. But his seriousness is undermined when he explains that the US offer must be our final one. Although real dialogue is a process, Goldberg’s suggestion is to try to talk just “one more time”. And then: war.
Nonetheless, Goldberg does not seem to be on the same page as the Israeli government or its neoconservative backers here, who reject any dialogue at all.
Any doubt on that score came today when an Iranian civilian nuclear scientist was assassinated in his car on a Tehran street. This was the fifth Iranian scientist killed in such an attack in the last two years.
The attack today certainly looks like an Israeli hit, especially when top Israelis themselves have warned that “unnatural” events were about to befall Iran. At this point, circumstantial evidence is all we can go on.
| “For those hell-bent on getting the US engaged in a war that even Jeff Goldberg views as a ‘nightmare’ for both the US and Israel, this is a very good day indeed.” |
That, and the answer to the ancient Latin question: Cui bono? Who benefits? (Check out Commentary, the neocon website that iscelebrating the murder.)
In theory, at least, the Netanyahu government benefits. A 32-year-old Iranian nuclear scientist is dead. The opportunities for dialogue or successful multilateral negotiations diminishes. And, if Iran responds in any way, US neocons (including Congress, which will recite its AIPAC talking points) will intensify calls for war.
On the other hand, actions like these against civilians in one country endanger civilians in others. Imagine how the United States or Israel would react if Iran or even Canada started bumping off nuclear scientists (or anyone else) in Washington.
Innocents in Israel, the US, Europe or elsewhere will pay a price for this criminal act of colossal stupidity. And from a security standpoint, such clear acts of aggression can only convince the mullahs that they need to develop a nuclear deterrent.
Here is Jeff Goldberg again in a column subsequent to the one I already cited:
If I were a member of the Iranian regime (and I’m not), I would take this assassination program to mean that the West is entirely uninterested in any form of negotiation (not that I, the regime official, has ever been much interested in dialogue with the West) and that I should double-down and cross the nuclear threshold as fast as humanly possible. Once I do that, I’m North Korea, or Pakistan: An untouchable country.
In short, for those hell-bent on getting the US engaged in a war that even Jeff Goldberg views as a “nightmare” for both the US and Israel, this is a very good day indeed.
Congratulations. Or something like that.
MJ Rosenberg is a Senior Foreign Policy Fellow at Media Matters Action Network. The above article first appeared in Foreign Policy Matters, a part of the Media Matters Action Network.
You can follow MJ on twitter @MJayRosenberg
January 13th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
I really hope this can be resolved in a peaceful manner
January 13th, 2012 at 7:59 pm
I feel sorry for the decent Israelis having to live under an immoral, murderous zionist regime. Hopefully this war will never happen (it never ceases to amaze me when I see people actually demanding war, so eager for the deaths of others, once I actually saw some scumbag post that he was always disappointed at the low casualty rate in the Iran/Iraq war, what do you do with creatures such as these? But IF there is a war all the right wing chickens should be pulled out of their hiding places and be sent to the front lines and then we can see how much they still like war.
January 13th, 2012 at 8:28 pm
U.S. and Israeli warmongering and sanctions, recently against Iran, must come to an end.
We, the U.S., have one of the largest nuclear arsenals in the world, yet we say to Iran that they cannot develop one…
How hypocritical is that?
January 14th, 2012 at 1:42 am
That Shia theocracy needs to be toasted. PERIOD!
January 14th, 2012 at 4:34 am
You sound just like one of the ‘shia theocracy’ twiceasnice…
Jack
January 14th, 2012 at 6:32 am
Twiceasnice, take your Islamophobia elsewhere.
January 14th, 2012 at 7:05 am
The ones who would suffer the most in such a war would be babies, children, the handicapped, elderly and so on, as is the case in all wars.
January 14th, 2012 at 9:17 am
The zionist regime needs to be toasted. PERIOD. By the way twice as stupid, IF there is a war are you going to enlist? Of course you won’t! You’ll sit on your fat ass pounding on your keyboard gloating over the deaths of Iranian civilians because you don’t consider them human. I’d tell you to read some history of that region other than the swill fake scholar fat bob spenser writes but I understand that intelligence isn’t your strong point.
January 14th, 2012 at 9:45 am
David Frum of “The Daily Beast” defended Israel’s alleged actions against the Scientists last night on the Bill Maher show stating that the assasinations could help to prevent a war. He also stated that these scientists were making something that was intended to kill.
So I guess it’s okay to kill civilians now? What about nuclear scientists here in the states? Didn’t they build weapons to kill others?? Do they deserve death??
January 14th, 2012 at 2:20 pm
Iran claims that it has evidence that the CIA was behind the killing of the scientist according to Yahoo News
http://news.yahoo.com/iran-sends-rare-letter-u-over-killed-scientist-173011574.html
January 14th, 2012 at 5:19 pm
Iran is a threat to Israel. Iran wants to to destroy Israel. Iran pretends that the legitimacy of Israel depends upon the Holocaust. Iran is an enemy of Israel.
Israel has every right to defend herself.
January 14th, 2012 at 9:49 pm
Um…when has Iran threatened Israel? (don’t give me the old stories of Ahmadinejad said he wants to wipe Israel off the map etc…because all those stories have been debunked as lies and only right wing Israelis and their apologists try to insist on them). However we have seen Israel and the US threaten Iran for many years. It’s not even that Israel fears the lie of being wiped off the map (even if that ever Is what Iran wanted to do they would never be able to do it). No a nuclear Iran would mean Israel wouldn’t be the toughest kid on the block anymore, no more regional dominance. Maybe Israel should stop being aggresive and theatening everybody before it loses the last 2 friends it has.
January 14th, 2012 at 11:03 pm
Israel is a threat to Iran. Israel wants to destroy Iran. Israel wants the whole Middle East to bow down to her. Israel is the enemy of the free world. Israel has brought nothing but death, tension and war in the Middle East. Israel is the enemy of Iran.
Iran has the rught to defend herself.
January 15th, 2012 at 2:27 am
Jeff Goldberg: If I were a member of the Iranian regime, I would take this assassination program to mean that the West is entirely uninterested in any form of negotiation and that I should double-down and cross the nuclear threshold as fast as humanly possible.
Well, no, Jeffie. Were you a member of the Iranian regime, you would think like this:
Zionist Israel is going to do everything it can to provoke Iran into doing something ~ anything at all ~ to give the chicken-hawks in Congress a pretext for increased ~ and overt ~ military attacks on Iran. It’s a “Let’s you and him fight” strategy successfully employed by Israeli zionists (elected to the government of Israel) for decades. The Iranian was not assassinated because he was a nuclear scientist, but because he was a muslim nuclear scientist not working for Israel or Israel’s Big Brother with a Big Stick, America. In other words, he is a martyr ~ the assassins did him a favor, and in all probability did no damage to Iran’s nuclear program: those who are really vital are protected better than the US President, who is only “vital” when he’s in someone’s way. No</b response giving the enemies any ammunition makes any sense.
Jeffie doesn't think that way, but he's underestimating the leaders of Iran. So Jeffie would never be "a member of the Iranian regime."
January 15th, 2012 at 2:37 am
Crow writes: I feel sorry for the decent Israelis having to live under an immoral, murderous zionist regime.
Save your pity. Those “decent Israelis” elected those murderous zionists, just as they’ve been doing for over half a century.
January 15th, 2012 at 3:16 am
“Israel is a threat to Iran. Israel wants to destroy Iran. Israel wants the whole Middle East to bow down to her. Israel is the enemy of the free world. Israel has brought nothing but death, tension and war in the Middle East. Israel is the enemy of Iran.
Iran has the rught to defend herself”
That would be cleverer if it were true.
January 15th, 2012 at 6:31 am
“Save your pity. Those “decent Israelis” elected those murderous zionists, just as they’ve been doing for over half a century.”
I disagree, is democracy not just ‘tyranny of the 51%’? I think like many elections people don’t really get what they want. It is also a fact that the parliament is effectively run by a few more extreme voices; to get a majority then either side has to such up to them and thus their views will always get heard. That is democracy!
Jack
January 15th, 2012 at 10:43 am
No offence but do Iran have the training and skill to even touch the hair of an Israeli scientist?
IDF/Israeli police anti terrorism units constantly top world rankings and competition. The only realistic option for Iran to win is to nuke Israel into oblivion because if they fail to do so, you can count on the samson option retaliation.
January 15th, 2012 at 10:48 am
Time to just bomb the heck out of the suspected site and be done with it. I just hope Israel has the will to do it. Damn what you Islam apologists think.
January 15th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
“That would be cleverer if it were true.”
Unfortunately, it IS true, the whole truth and nothing but the truth – at least for more than 95% of Middle-Easterners that live in the region, whether Muslims, Christians, Atheists and so on, and that includes about 75 million Iranians, but not only those, but for the many Jews who wants nothing but to leave in peace with their neighbours see the Threat as nothing but truth reality as well.
January 15th, 2012 at 1:53 pm
Save your pity. Those “decent Israelis” elected those murderous zionists, just as they’ve been doing for over half a century”
That’s what people say about us too for electing Bush and Obama. Little did we know how corrupt they would be. As a result, we have a growing # of Occupy Wall Street, occupy any city, growing # of unhappy Americans as a result of the wars that were never even declared.
I only hope that the decent Israelis protest too or are they too scared??
January 15th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
“That Shia theocracy needs to be toasted. PERIOD!”
“The Zionist regime needs to be toasted”.
“Iran wants to to destroy Israel.”
Man, this thread has some funky karma happening. I am glad I live on the other side of the planet.
January 15th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
I was going to respond to twice as stupid but then I realized there’s no reasoning with someone who calls himself twice as stupid. But anyway if Israel does bomb Iran, it’ll inflame the region and Israel would probably would never know another moments peace. Iran having nukes isn’t a bad idea, it would guarentee that other countries (israel) were less likely to attack, sure Israel would have to find another weak, non-threating country to pick on. Aslo twice as stupid Islam is Beautiful religion and does not need any apologies. Youre welcome and I’m glad I could disabuse you of your ignorance.
January 15th, 2012 at 5:57 pm
>”No offence but do Iran have the training and skill to even touch the hair of an Israeli scientist?”
Hilarious @”Skeptic”, but seriously it would’ve been wise of you if you’d used a bit of that “wisdom” in your pseudonym “skeptic” before you made such childish statement. Be always skeptical “Skeptic” of what an rusty old Persian can do. Those old calculative Persian bastards are unpredictable, they definitely have more than few tricks under their sleeves, and they’ve proved to be hardcore survivors against all odds especially for the past 30 some years or so, than even the most imperialist regime in the world can venture their way. So how can an on life-support, surviving on pitiful donations, clit can? even one with a mouth bigger than a desert?
January 15th, 2012 at 6:07 pm
Sorry, that should read – That even the most imperialist regime in the world can’t venture their way.
January 15th, 2012 at 10:54 pm
People are deluding themselves if they think killing 5 scientists out of hundreds who are probably hiding underground is going to stop them from building nukes. If they want to build it, they will and they have every right to. US needs to seriously back off! If Iran wants to retaliate, no one will help us. NO ONE!
January 16th, 2012 at 1:10 am
@Geji -
The fact of the matter is that Israel took on many arab countries and won.
Anytime they lose = end of Israel and they understand that.
If Iran was so confident, You would think that they would have “liberated Jerusalem” by now as many of the Iranian leaders declared in the past but none executed the threat?
Even if the USA were to stop supporting Israel one day, Israelis will still win their battles because they are more united and secular than it’s surrounding muslims countries IF they don’t get taken over by their religious jewish nationalists.
January 16th, 2012 at 1:58 am
ScareCrow writes:
“I feel sorry for the decent Israelis having to live under an immoral, murderous zionist regime”.
Well I feel sorry for the decent Iranians having to live under an immoral, murderous theocratic regime.
khushboo writes:
“Those “decent Israelis” elected those murderous zionists, just as they’ve been doing for over half a century”.
At least the Israelis experience democratic elections, after all they are living in a democracy. I wish I could say the same thing about the Iranians who live in one of the most oppressive theocracies in the world.
January 16th, 2012 at 2:33 am
Skeptic
Iran is probably already a nuclear power already, 2 of her neighbors, India and Pakistan are nuclear powers. I do not for one minute believe Iran is not already a nuclear power.
I only hope that the decent Israelis protest too or are they too scared??
Hajji Dawud,
Save your pity. Those “decent Israelis” elected those murderous zionists, just as they’ve been doing for over half a century.
That is the logic Osama bin Laden used to attack the USA. So you agree with him then, and the world that regards the US as a number 1 threat should not pity you because the murderous regimes of the USA were VOTED IN DEMOCRATICALLY?
January 16th, 2012 at 8:08 am
And how do you know Iran didn’t kill them just to blame Jews for all their problems?
January 16th, 2012 at 8:31 am
Sorry khushboo, the second part of my comment should be addresed to Hajj Dawud.
January 16th, 2012 at 10:41 am
“And how do you know Iran didn’t kill them just to blame Jews for all their problems?”
And how do I know that there isn’t a goblin living in my bathroom? I don’t, but probability states that there isn’t.
Jack
January 16th, 2012 at 1:38 pm
“And how do I know that there isn’t a goblin living in my bathroom? I don’t, but probability states that there isn’t.”
LOL Jack, you owe me coffee! *wipes screen*
January 16th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
@jack
I don’t know about any goblins in bathrooms but I know of a guy who has an evil monkey in his closet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8l2bzyyKqg
January 17th, 2012 at 1:22 am
@Inspired-by-mohammad
As I was saying, the only way for Iran to stop Israel(“Liberating Jerusalem” as some of the Iranian Ayatollahs might put in) is to actually nuke Israel out of existence instead of empty talk. If by some reason they fail to do so, The Samson Option Retaliation from Israel will definitely be brutal enough to wipe out Iran.
Right now, Israel can slowly grind you out with their covert ops and assassinations as they are the masters at it.
It’s a disadvantage to Iran as the Israeli forces are much better trained and more tactically sound than the Iranian forces.
Despite the casualties sustained by Israel during the lebanon War, I’m sure the Israelis will just view it as lessons learnt not to be repeated.
I remember one of the arab generals who participated in the 6 day war stated that the arab soldiers only trained for parades but the jewish soldiers trained for the actual war.
January 17th, 2012 at 5:30 am
Not Again writes (first quoting me): Save your pity. Those “decent Israelis” elected those murderous zionists, just as they’ve been doing for over half a century.
That is the logic Osama bin Laden used to attack the USA. So you agree with him then …
44% of America’s eligible voters split their votes between Obama and McCain ~ the Prez was elected by a 1/4 minority who didn’t know who they were electing. Israel’s voters ~ 75% of whom are Jewish ~ know exactly which “remove Arab Christians and muslims” strategy they’re voting into the Knesset that elects their Prime Minister with his cabinet chosen to mollify the Haredi parties.
bin Laden was just a tool of the world’s biggest arms dealers ~ the U.S., the U.K., Russia, France, and China ~ the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council. I agree with killing him, which I’m not convinced ever happened.
… and the world that regards the US as a number 1 threat should not pity you because the murderous regimes of the USA were VOTED IN DEMOCRATICALLY?
They won’t pity me because I remained in my native country among people who allowed a minority to elect a series of serial mass murderers and abandoned their political responsibilities. All Americans will suffer for that abandonment, and history has no pity ~ not that any of us deserve any pity for anything but short-sighted idiocy.
Let’s see how America’s on-going revolution turns out. My money would be on terminal stupidity and national suicide, if I had any money to bet with. Ron Paul could beat Obama just in time to have a “heart attack,” or sit on his thumbs in the Oval Office for a while, because voters imagine that he could control the Executive Branch and win possession of an imperial Congress bought and owned by enemies of his plans.
But there ain’t no Superman, Folks. The house lights are already dimmed, and when the curtain rises it will be too late to stop the play. The Flood this time is survival knowledge, and too few know how to swim in shark-infested waters.
Be wary of those who invite you into an Ark. Or into a Yellow Submarine. The Captains are just looking for a cargo to feed to the crew.
January 17th, 2012 at 11:39 am
“remove Arab Christians and muslims”
A- majuscule for Arabs?
C- majuscule for Christians?
J- majuscule for Jews?
But “m”- minuscules for Muslims? —- wondering.
January 17th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
Hajji Dawud,
Are you demented or what? Please take your medications before you post here.
I asked you a simnple question, I didn’t ask you about the conspiracies from A to Z, from Zimbabwe to Israel, from Arms dealers to where gnats pee,
By your own logic, then OBL was right. Every American is a legitimate target, so we should save our pity for Americans. Just address this point, and no other
January 17th, 2012 at 12:14 pm
and by the way, Hajji Dawud, before you try any dancing games with words, you fake Shaykh, it doens’t matter if a minority votes in a government in a democracy, because the people have the power to bring it down, like the British did with Tony Blair, they kicked him out.
By the way, did you go through an authentic conversion to Islam? What do you think of Suhaibb Webb? Unlike you, he went through a proper converstion and shed his baggage, you havn’t.
An honest Christian is better than a fake Muslim
January 17th, 2012 at 12:18 pm
Where did you get your scholarly credentials from? Please list them, how dare you call yourself a Shaykh
January 17th, 2012 at 12:46 pm
Géji Says: “remove Arab Christians and muslims”
A- majuscule for Arabs?
C- majuscule for Christians?
J- majuscule for Jews?
But “m”- minuscules for Muslims? —- wondering.
“Proper nouns” that are capitalized in English are prefixed with one or another form of “al-” in Arabic. al-Islam; ash-Shaheed; etc. There is no “al-” prefixed to “muslims” in common usage, and we (muslims) do not pretend or purport to share the dignity and distinction of a “proper name” with Allah, all of Whose Names are “proper nouns.” We belong to Him, we are not His “children” or “partners.”
But with Jews and Christians, good manners requires that we not “offend” them by appearing to “diminish” their exalted status by using lower-case letters in what they call themselves. They are, after all, The Chosen People, distinguished from all of humanity (including the muslims) by their exclusive Covenant to lead people to the Messenger of the Covenant and join him after the Messiah allowed them to do what they had been prepared to do, and the faithful of Jesus did that everywhere but in Pauline Europe, so those who joined Jesus and fulfilled the Covenant are entitled ~ forever, even as muslims when they embrace the completion of His Favor on humanity ~ to that distinction that is indicated by a “proper noun” with English capitalization.
I’m just an insufficiently grateful recipient of His Mercy. I don’t capitalize whichever of my names that I’m using unless I’m including my distinguishing name, Hajj (and sometimes not even then). With “official paper,” I’ll use some appropriate “name” from “Shaykh al-Hajj al-Imam Dawud Ahmad al-Amriki, M.S.J.D.” in respect of that which Allah has given me or invested in me, but should you ever see “abujamal” capitalized, either it’s not me or it’s a typographical error. “Respect” is due to ALLAH Alone, and His Attributes with which He dresses some individuals ~ not to the individual himself. It makes me a little uncomfortable when people refer to me as “The Honorable [Whatever] Dawud Ahmad” ~ I’m walkin’, talkin’, stinkin’ clay, my “real” name is “mud.” That’s what I see in the mirror, and although I like what I see, my hope is that by the time the worms finish with my carcass, everyone will have forgotten me except Allah. I’m sure not going to miss me when I’m gone.
January 17th, 2012 at 12:52 pm
Inspired by Mohammad Says: nothing, as usual.
January 17th, 2012 at 12:52 pm
>”I asked you a simnple question, I didn’t ask you about the conspiracies from A to Z, from Zimbabwe to Israel, from Arms dealers to where gnats pee,”
@Inspired by Muhammad
Salaam Inspired, I think there is actually some truth in what he said, maybe if you’d pay a little more attention to his reply, you’ll realize its not all that “crazy” for your “advise” to immediate “medication”.. I think its also unfortunate the word “conspiracy” is thrown around lightly nowadays, especially from those who don’t want to have a clearer picture at what’s taking place in our world today, I’m not talking specifically about you, but in general sense.
January 17th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
I think there IS a goblin living in my bathroom.
January 17th, 2012 at 2:27 pm
@Skeptic, I told you before and even many more times before that, best for you is to be “wise” finally using some of that “wisdom” behind your fictitious name. Until then, there is no need for any of us to waste time discussing with a junky who’s obviously intoxicated via eachday injection on Zionism junk.
January 17th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
Geiji
I am well aware that all is not as it appears, that is why every country has intelligence services and covert forces. That is not the subject.
The point is whenever this fake Shaykh who by the way has rejected the Orthodoxy which makes him a non Muslim though he calls himself one, a charlatan.
If he voiced his conspiracies without the Islamic spin, it wouldn’t bother me one bit. But he takes Christian and Jewish prophecies, (since he is not a Rabbi he shouldn’t be interpreting the laws which they reject, i’ll listen to the Rabbi’s rather than a fake Shaykh) adds an Islamic twist to it, peppers it with quackery and fake scholarly nonsense, and misses the point.
Note he didn’t answer any of the quesitons above which would expose him to be the fake he is.
1. If he says ‘save your pity’ and collective guilt should be applied on the Israelis then he is in agreement with Osama bin Laden about democratics countries citizens as ALL being guilty. That is why he targeted civilians.
2. He won’t answer a simple question, where he got his Islamic credentials from. I don’t believe he has gone through a proper conversion. In this case, he should call himself a Christian, and i’d have no problem with his ‘christianness’. But he pretends it is Islam he is representing and that is a no no.
3. He rejects the laws. He once said Sharia law is not mandatory. This puts him outside the bounds of faith.
4. He wont’ say what he thinks of Imam Suhaibb Webb, a former Christian who went through a proper conversion to Islam. Now that is a guy who can use a title and be respected but not this fake.
January 17th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Dear Fake (wannabe Muslim but don’t want the responsiblity of the laws)
But with Jews and Christians, good manners requires that we not “offend” them by appearing to “diminish” their exalted status by using lower-case letters in what they call themselves.
Well I have no good manners sorry, especially when a fake tries to distort the Quran. You have no understanding of Islam. God tells he deliberately didn’t create us as one with the same belief, but that all the Monotheisms are a route to reach him. That is why Muslims recognise Ahl Kitaab. Not because they will eventually save us, but because they have divine guidance which though corrupted (for Muslims) they can adhere to and ‘save’ themselves.
They are, after all, The Chosen People, distinguished from all of humanity (including the muslims) by their exclusive Covenant to lead people to the Messenger of the Covenant and join him after the Messiah allowed them to do what they had been prepared to do, and the faithful of Jesus did that everywhere but in Pauline Europe, so those who joined Jesus and fulfilled the Covenant are entitled ~ forever, even as muslims when they embrace the completion of His Favor on humanity ~ to that distinction that is indicated by a “proper noun” with English capitalization.
The covenent of the Jews was fulfilled at Sinai. The Torah was the promise. Even Jesus kept the laws. This is where you are wrong. Moreover, the Quran describes Christians as ‘those who went astray’. You sure are a shining example of that. Th Jews are described as ‘those who roused his anger’ ie. disobediance to the laws. Being lazy and not practicing. The gone astray ones are the Christians.
JESUS DOES NOT SAVE.
The QUran was given as a ‘reminder’. ie. that which already had been given. Even Prophet Mohammed acknowledged that the greatest of the Prophets was Moses who was given the law first. The Quran is but the same message.
Nothing but adherance to the laws saves you. Get that into your head, and hopefully, you will reject Islam and become a Christian again.
Sorry for the tough talking, but someone has to do it.
January 17th, 2012 at 8:45 pm
Sorry for the tough talking, but someone has to do it.
You don’t need to be sorry for providing some comic relief and a lot of laughs.
January 17th, 2012 at 11:09 pm
Inspired by Muhammad “JESUS DOES NOT SAVE”
Whether Jesus does or does not save is purely the word of Muhammad against Paul and John.
Mathematically I would not like a bet on either of them being right.
Religious people sure are long odds punters.
January 18th, 2012 at 1:28 am
“Ron Paul could beat Obama just in time to have a “heart attack,””
What a fantastical world you live in. It’s a shame how much less interesting real life is.
January 18th, 2012 at 6:35 am
HGG writes (first quoting me): Ron Paul could beat Obama just in time to have a “heart attack,”
JFK had to wait three years before he was whacked, until after he had made a move to put US currency back on the gold standard. Fiat money bankers do not like Ron Paul.
What a fantastical world you live in. It’s a shame how much less interesting real life is.
Truth is stranger than fiction. “Real life” just moves a lot slower than television.
January 19th, 2012 at 10:51 pm
> ““Proper nouns” that are capitalized in English are prefixed with one or another form of “al-” in Arabic. al-Islam; ash-Shaheed; etc. There is no “al-” prefixed to “muslims” in common usage.
- Al- (Arabic: الـ, also transliterated as el-) is the definite article in the Arabic language; a particle (ḥarf) whose function is to render the noun on which it is prefixed definite. For example, the word كتاب kitāb ‘book’ can be made definite by prefixing it with al-, resulting in الكتاب al-kitāb ‘the book’. Consequently, al- is typically translated as ‘the’ in English.
Therefore if al- is definitive article presenting a noun which the word “muslim” is, then we can say al-muslim, thus translating if understood according to your point as “Muslim”.
> “and we (muslims) do not pretend or purport to share the dignity and distinction of a “proper name” with Allah, all of Whose Names are “proper nouns.” We belong to Him, we are not His “children” or “partners.””
Although you’re definitely right about what you’re saying, for no Muslim should ever pretend sharing the dignity and distinction of Allah, and of course we’re neither His partners nor His children , I still don’t understand what that have to do in an non-literal way the word “Muslim”, after all He did name us Muslim —- —-
But what intrigues me more in all this, is since you choose to capitalize words such as ‘Christian’ or ‘Jew’ for they may take “offence to lower-case letters in what they call themselves” and for “fear of appearing diminished”, are you saying thus they themselves “pretend” to be partners with God?
> “But with Jews and Christians, good manners requires that we not “offend” them by appearing to “diminish” their exalted status by using lower-case letters in what they call themselves. They are, after all, The Chosen People, distinguished from all of humanity (including the muslims) by their exclusive Covenant to lead people to the Messenger of the Covenant and join him after the Messiah allowed them to do what they had been prepared to do, and the faithful of Jesus did that everywhere but in Pauline Europe, so those who joined Jesus and fulfilled the Covenant are entitled ~ forever, even as muslims when they embrace the completion of His Favor on humanity ~ to that distinction that is indicated by a “proper noun” with English capitalization.”
Not that it would change anything whatsoever in your mind, nor I’m going to pretend that it will, or even try. But, I am from the Ummah of Muhammad Ibn Abdullah Ibn Abd al-Muttalib, the last prophet and messenger of God, and the last law-bearer. Preacher proclaiming that Allah is One. Teacher explaining that complete surrender-(lit. Islām) to Allah is the only way (dīn) acceptable to Him. The restorer of the uncorrupted original surrender-(Islām) of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and other prophets. None are above him, none are superior to him, none are chosen over him, except ALLAH The Almighty, and so are his followers by righteousness.
But did it ever occur to you that some of that ‘good manners’ you’ve bestowed on the Jew and the Christian, may equally be deserving for the ‘muslim’? Don’t they have a right to be “offended” if the very name giving to them by God is “lower-cased” and thus undeserving to be capitalized? Don’t they have a right to ‘require’ respectfully that it should be?
January 19th, 2012 at 11:04 pm
“Therefore if al- is definitive article presenting a noun which the word “muslim” is, then we can say al-muslim, thus translating if understood according to your point as “Muslim””
Meant to say – Therefore if al – is used as definite article presenting a noun…
January 20th, 2012 at 12:24 pm
@Géji: I’m not persuaded to revisit my analysis on the basis of “contemporary” values.
The faithful of Moses who became the faithful of Jesus, and the faithful Jesus who became the faithful of the Messenger, have fulfilled the Law of the Kingdom first given to the Children of Israel, an everlasting distinction not shared by those who came to Islam after the Good News was no longer “news.” This distinction, promised to Abraham for Isaac, is honored by muslims, and any Jewish or Christian individual may embrace Islam and inherit from Isaac, preserving his entire heritage in Abraham and realizing the Favor of Allah that He promised them.
Judaism and Christianity as sent down are straight paths to The Straight Path in advance of all others that lead only obscurely to the faith of Abraham, which is one integral faith in three houses, not three faiths fighting over the spaces between the three houses widened by the Father of Lies na’oodhu billah.
I’m not going to quibble over capitalization and manners when the work of restoring communion among the three houses of Abraham is not done.