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This is Why Radical Christians are One of the Greatest Threats to the US Constitution

Santorum_Separation_Church_and_State

Rick Santorum on “This Week” with George Stephanopoulos

For the past several years Loonwatch writers have repeatedly made the very “significant” (and obvious) point that radical Christian Islamophobes seek to undermine the constitution of the USA by entangling church and state; i.e. undermining the separation of Church and State.

We have also pointed out that the fervent fear-mongering about “Islamization,” a fairytale concept, is nothing more than projection on the part of these radicals. (Propaganda about the “Islamization” of the USA is even more ridiculous when one considers history; the fact that America was forcibly “Christianized” by colonial settlers and their offspring.)

Many Radical Christians today believe America has changed too much and that the superior place of Christianity needs to be reasserted, i.e. re-Christianization. Not only does this thought permeate the GOP, it has infact captured the GOP. This much is clear from the ongoing reality TV circus known as the Republican primary debates.

Take Rick Santorum, it was recently revealed that he “felt like throwing up” when he first read JFK’s famous speech on the separation of church and state. He was questioned about this by George Stephanopoulos, Santorum replied that he felt like vomiting after reading the first substantive line of the speech in which JFK said, “Apparently it is important for me to state again, not what kind of church I believe in, for that should be important only to me, but what kind of America I believe in. I believe in an America in which the separation between church and state is absolute. Santorum went on to say,

I don’t believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute. The idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country.

This is a leading Republican candidate for the presidency saying this, it’s not something that should be simply ignored. Can one imagine if Rep.Keith Ellison, a Muslim Congressman had said the above? For a surety the Islamophobesphere would be flailing wildly about “Islamization” and the impending Sharia take over in Ellison’s home state of Minnesota.

One must also ask where is the condemnation from loons such as Robert Spencer, a fellow Catholic? We can answer our own question, Spencer is not interested in condemning this threat because he likely agrees with Santorum. Spencer in the past has spoken in forums where he has agreed with other speakers attacking the Enlightenment. His attacks weren’t of the philosophical post-modernist variety either but couched in defense of the faith rhetoric. As I wrote at the time,

Spencer agrees with Professor Kreeft regarding the Enlightenment being a threat to Catholicism though he didn’t explicitly say that Islam was less of a threat. I can see how Ultra-Conservative Catholics may rail against the Enlightenment, it was the era which saw a secularist revolt in the name of reason against the Catholic Church and which led to formulas for the Separation of Church and State, it also witnessed the decline of the power of the Catholic Church in the temporal realm.

Coming back to the main topic, I don’t believe Santorum misspoke. I don’t believe Santorum misunderstood what JFK meant or the impetus behind why he gave that famous 1960 speech. I don’t believe Santorum was making a point about how voices of faith need to be heard in the public square, etc.

Santorum believes America is a Christian country, he believes the “founding fathers” meant for it to stay that way and in fact supported such a notion. I am not sure whether Santorum follows the Dominionist ideology, (an ideology that seems to plague Protestants mostly), but he clearly believes the Church has a part to play in the operation of government.

This incident reveals the deep hypocrisy and faux loyalty to the Constitution amongst many of the Islamophobes and the populist politicians who are riding the Islam/Muslim-bashing wave. Islam and Muslims are being used as a distraction that serves to 1.) make us lose sight of the real issues, and 2.) covers a darker intent of reconquista, rechristianization by any means necessary.

Lastly, I want to clarify that this post is obviously not an attack on Christianity and should not be understood that way. The great majority of Christians are as repulsed as any other citizen when they hear such inanities spewing forth from the mouths of politicians speaking in the name of their faith. They are also on the front lines actively fighting this scourge.

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A very good video from the Young Turks on Rick Santorum’s attack on the Separation of Church and State:

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    • Hassan Nasrallah

      As an ex-Muslim, I have stopped supporting any country, government, religion, culture etc. in the world. I just consider myself a human being, I don’t belong to any “club”. For me there are only 2 categories of people; those who do and support evil, and those who do and support good deeds and peace.

    • Hassan Nasrallah

      Humans can easily see the radicalism of others, but they are unable to detect the radicalism in themselves. This goes for Muslims, Christians, Jews and others. Their group-thinking mentality, ego and pride prevents them from thinking objectively.

    • Kirook

      Are you writing this while high?

    • Kirook

      Yeah… I’m a Catholic, and even I think medieval/Enlightenment Catholics were a**holes.

    • Brie

      The Catholic church has a history of not only getting involved in government, but running the government, which is one of the reasons our founders harbored anti-catholic sentiments sadly and the separation of church and state was so important, to the point that catholics were not allowed to vote or even hold office in many states during Americas early years. The Catholic church’s atrocities and violation of rights in controlling the state are a lesson in history as to why separation of church and state is vital to a free society. As to the enlightenment, let us not forget history as to why people left the catholic church in droves. It started with Martin Luther, a man who the Catholic church tried to kill, and who had to be hidden away for years due to the catholic run state’s threat to his life because he held differing views of the Bible. Now during his isolation he translated the New Testament into German, a language people could read. The Catholic church would not translate the bible into a language of the people therefore effectively preventing them from reading the Bible themselves and therefore not able to challenge false doctrines. The enlightenment was due to the use of printing presses and people reading the Bible for themselves and therefore leaving the catholic church for Protestant denominations, people did not become less religious, just less Catholic. It is a shame to look at Catholic dominion before the enlightenment as something to be praised, it was nothing more than withholding the word of God from the common man, something Martin Luther put an end to, and without the reformation which led to the enlightenment even Catholics wouldn’t have a copy of the bible today.

    • Franczeska

      @”Truth man” Please let us all know the results of that upcoming drug-test you appear to have been cramming so hard for.

    • Truth man

      this article/garibaldi FACT-FREE article is such a sham/buffoon..HE FIRST SAYS THAT “separation of Church and state” ARE AT RISK IF THE “evil””right wing” christians win the elections, but he fails to admit that it is only in christian countries that secularism exists in its purest form, most honest and effective form, THANKS to the teachings of the christian churches-“Give to God what belongs to God, and to ceasar what belongs to ceasar!”-JESUS CHRIST.he then carries on with his manipulative warped logic waring that considering “america2 as a “christain nation” is somehow “offensive,false, evil and dangerous”?!??!!WTF..?!?? buit when muslim imans, sheiks consider christianity (along with christians anmd all non-muslims)”evil”,”shirk2″impure2″sinful2 and destined to be destroyed by muslims, alonmg with everything that came out from christianity that includesdemocracy, human rights, freedom of expression..secularism, that IS NOT a threat to the constitution, neither is the sharia that totally contradicts all american values and rights to the core!Garibaldi..leftys, pleeease..wake up and smell the smoke.what are you doing to mankind, to maerica and to yourselves? you are in bed with satan-islam!!yopu contrdict yourselves in the worst way possible.ther is nothing rightful, progressive, liberal, humansit about deffendinf barbarism, violence, never-ending jihad/wars, opression of wimen and non-muslims, destroying mankind!

    • Lo

      Why are radical Muslims called ‘Islamists’ when radical Christians are not ‘Christianist’? Even radical Jews are not called ‘Jewist’ (they are more likely referred to as ‘Kahanists’). I’d like to point out the bitter fact that even Loonwatch has a tag of ‘Islamist’. How would Americans like it if organisations like SIOA and idiots like George Bush are called Americanists?

    • Saladin

      @Solid Snake

      “WOW! That pretty much covers all the bases! Please tell me he’s black! A black gay Muslim defending santorum! THERE’S NO WAY HE COULD BE A BIGOT! LOOK WHOS DEFENDING HIM Lmao!!”

      It gets better than that I think he is also mixed with Latino and Black I mean how can a person with a Latino/Black/Gay/Muslim friend ever be a bigot I think LoonWatch should reconsider their stance on him LOL

    • Black Infidel

      If your against the separation of church and state, US Constitution, Bill of Rights etc. etc. you are a Dominionist and a threat to the American way. No ifs, ands nor buts about it.

    • Black Infidel

      Not many people are aware of Christian Reconstruction, Dominionism and Dominion Theology. Those 3 are the real threat to the US. I’ve just watch the video called “The Rise of Dominionism” it mention Rick Santorum. Rick Santorum is indeed a Dominionist.

  • mindy1

    @Believingatheist that is good to see

Pennsylvania “Sharia Court”: Loons Jump the Gun AGAIN on Ginned up “Legal Jihad”

Zombie Atheists

Zombie Pope and Zombie Muhammad Marching in a Halloween Parade

by Ilisha

(H/T: CriticalDragon1177)

All across the looniverse, there is an uproar over an alleged triumph of Sharia in a Pennsylvania court case presided over by a “Muslim” judge.  It’s not the first time anti-Muslim bigots pounced on a story of so-called “legal jihad” before they got their facts straight.

This time, Pennsylvania State Director of American Atheists, Ernest Perce V, was parading down the street as “Zombie Muhammad,” when an outraged Muslim bystander allegedly grabbed him, choked him from behind, and attempted to remove a “Muhammad of Islam” sign from around his neck. Both men complained to  police, Perce for assault and Elbayomy because he apparently thought insulting Islam was a criminal offense.

Perce filed charges, but a judge dismissed the case after he allegedly said, “I’m a Muslim,” and chastised the atheist in question for his misinterpretation and lack of understanding concerning Islam. Judge Martin is not a Muslim, and later said himself he is Lutheran.

Parts of the court video are garbled, and it seems he either misspoke or part of his statement was inaudible.  In any case, his statements and decision to dismiss the case have sparked a fresh controversy over  the limits of free speech.

The judge said in part:

Before you start mocking someone else’s religion you may want to find out a little bit more about it. That makes you look like a doofus…

Here in our society, we have a constitution that gives us many rights, specifically, First Amendment rights. It’s unfortunate that some people use the First Amendment to deliberately provoke others. I don’t think that’s what our forefathers really intended. I think our forefathers intended that we use the First Amendment so that we can speak our mind, not to piss off other people and other cultures, which is what you did.

I don’t think you’re aware, sir, there’s a big difference between how Americans practice Christianity – uh, I understand you’re an atheist. But, see, Islam is not just a religion, it’s their culture, their culture. It’s their very essence, their very being. They pray five times a day towards Mecca. To be a good Muslim, before you die, you have to make a pilgrimage to Mecca unless you are otherwise told you cannot because you are too ill, too elderly, whatever. But you must make the attempt…

Then what you have done is you’ve completely trashed their essence, their being. They find it very, very, very offensive. I’m a Muslim, I find it offensive. [Unintelligble] aside was very offensive.

But you have that right, but you’re way outside your bounds on First Amendment rights.

Pamela Geller’s hate site, Atlas Shrugs, blared the headline: “AMERICAN MUSLIM JUDGE WHO IMPOSED SHARIA IN PENNSYLVANIA COURT THREATENS TO JAIL INFIDEL VICTIM FOR BLASPHEMY — RELEASING RECORDED AUDIO OF THE CASE

The inflammatory headline was followed by, “Infidel victim, Ernest Perce, has received 471 verifiable threats.” No source was cited to substantiate the claim.

Robert Spencer’s Jihad Watch declared:

This is enforcement of Sharia in a Pennsylvania court. The attacker supposedly got off because he “is an immigrant and claims he did not know his actions were illegal, or that it was legal in this country to represent Muhammad in any form. To add insult to injury, he also testified that his 9 year old son was present, and the man said he felt he needed to show his young son that he was willing to fight for his Prophet.”

Though part of the statement on Jihad Watch is in quotes, it’s unclear who Spencer is quoting. A full transcript of the judges statement is here, and the defendant’s immigrant status and lack of legal knowledge are not cited as reasons for dismissing the case.

Spencer also doesn’t explain how this is an example of Sharia. What Islamic Law did the judge cite in this case? Spencer doesn’t say, and apparently that’s fine with his no-evidence-required audience.

Although Eugene Volokh of  The Volokh Conspiracy strongly disagreed with the judge’s decision, he said:

…This is not a situation where the judge “applied Sharia law” in any normal sense of the phrase. The judge claimed that he simply didn’t find enough evidence against the defendant. Perhaps the judge was biased against the victim because of the victim’s anti-Muslim speech, but an anti-Sharia law wouldn’t have helped avoid that. More broadly, a law banning judges from “consider[ing] … Sharia Law” (in the words of the Oklahoma anti-Sharia amendment) wouldn’t keep judges from concluding that someone who insults members of other religious groups should be admonished, punished, or even stripped of the right to legal protection — they would just conclude this based on their own notions of refraining from offending other groups….

The case has nothing do with Sharia, and everything to do with the interpretation and application of American Law.

In the US, free speech is protected by the First Amendment to the US Constitution, and in most cases, speech that is distasteful, inflammatory, racist, sexist, or even outright hate speech, is usually permitted. However, there are exceptions, including “fighting words” and “incitement to imminent lawless action.” Though the judge did tell the plaintiff it was his opinion he’d gone way outside the bounds of free speech, this was not the stated reason for dismissing the case.

In response to the controversy, Judge Martin gave a statement clarifying :  ((H/T: Just Stopping By)

This story certainly has legs. As you might imagine, the public is only getting the version of the story put out by the “victim” (the atheist). Many, many gross misrepresentations. Among them: I’m a Muslim, and that’s why I dismissed the harassment charge (Fact: if anyone cares, I’m actually Lutheran, and have been for at least 41 years).

I also supposedly called him and threatened to throw him in jail if he released the tapes he had made in the courtroom without my knowledge/permission (Fact: HE called ME and told me that he was ready to “go public” with the tapes and was wondering what the consequences would be; I advised him again to not disseminate the recording, and that I would consider contempt charges; he then replied that he was “willing to go to jail for (his) 1st amendment rights”- I never even uttered the word “jail” in that conversation).

He said that I kept a copy of the Quran on the bench (fact: I keep a Bible on the bench, but out of respect to people with faiths other than Christianity, I DO have a Quran on the bookcase BESIDE my bench, and am trying to acquire a Torah, Book of Mormon, Book of Confucius and any other artifacts which those with a faith might respect).

He claims that I’m biased towards Islam, apparently because he thinks I’m Muslim. In fact, those of you who know me, know that I’m an Army reservist with 27 years of service towards our country (and still serving). I’ve done one tour in Afghanistan, and two tours in Iraq, and am scheduled to return to Afghanistan for a year this summer. During my first tour in Iraq, I was ambushed once, attacked by a mob once, sniped at once, and rocketed, bombed, and mortared so many times that I honestly don’t know how many time I’ve been attacked. Presumably by Muslim insurgents. My point: if anyone SHOULD be biased towards Muslims, one would think it would be me. I’m not, however, because I personally know or have met many good, decent people who follow Islam, and I shouldn’t characterize the actions of those who tried to kill me as characterizations of all Muslims.

When I asked him why he dressed up as “Muhammad zombie,” he told me that it was because he was reflecting the Muslim belief that Muhammad rose from the dead, walked as a zombie, and then went to heaven. That was one of the reasons I tried to spend 6 whole minutes trying to explain and de-mystify Islam through my own knowledge, and in an attempt to prevent an incident like this recurring in my community. Unfortunately, the message was obviously not received in the vein that I had intended. And, in the interest of full disclosure, I did use the word “doofus,” but didn’t call him that directly; I said something akin to “ if you’re going to mock another religion or culture, you should check your facts, first- otherwise, you’ll look like a doofus.”;

In short, I based my decision on the fact that the Commonwealth failed to prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that the charge was just; I didn’t doubt that an incident occurred, but I was basically presented only with the victim’s version, the defendant’s version, and a very intact Styrofoam sign that the victim was wearing and claimed that the defendant had used to choke him. There so many inconsistencies, that there was no way that I was going to find the defendant guilty.

A lesson learned here: there’s a very good reason for Rule 112 of Rules of Criminal Procedure- if someone makes an unauthorized recording in a Court not of Record, there’s no way to control how it might be manipulated later, and then passed off as the truth. We’ve received dozens upon dozens of phone calls, faxes, and e-mails. There are literally hundreds of not-so-nice posts all over the internet on at least 4 sites that have carried this story, mainly because I’ve been painted as a Muslim judge who didn’t recuse himself, and who’s trying to introduce Sharia law into Mechanicsburg.

Attempts to link the case to Islamic Law are illogical and absurd, but will no doubt provide convincing “evidence” for those already inclined to believe “creeping sharia” is a genuine threat to America.

However, the case may very well spark a wider debate. The idea that a judge may have sacrificed free speech on the alter of religious and cultural sensitivity is bound to attract attention, especially as Western democracies increasingly grapple with issues of multiculturalism, provocation, and the boundaries of free speech.

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The judge’s controversial statements begin in minute 29:

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    • TexasVetgal

      Freedom of speech is a fundamental right. Freedom to criticize has kept people free, be it thru individual rights or a free press. Judge Martin was wrong, and worse, he was ignorant of our Constitution.

    • JT

      I’m pretty sure Judge Martin was saying “If I’m a Muslim…” but the audio wasn’t the best and the people heard what they wanted to hear.

    • @Stoned Gremlin

      I think Judge Martin was either misquoted or the audio was bad.

    • HGG

      “And tell your friends that they switched the order of the sentences in Hebrew! It actually reads: “With this, you have a choice. You know that’s a myth.” I’m not sure that’s what they intended.”

      It obviously was intended as a slight against Jedis, too!

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