Robert Spencer

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Bat Ye'or

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Geert Wilders

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The Nuclear Card

Loon Victory: Muslim Doctor Ousted for FGM Thought Crime

Posted on 06 June 2012 by Ilisha

Dr. Hatem al-Haj

Dr. Hatem al-Haj

by Ilisha

All across the Looniverse, hate mongers are congratulating themselves on a stunning victory.

They’ve managed to oust Dr. Hatem (Elhagaly) al-Haj from his role as a pediatrician at the prestigious, US-based Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, for nothing more than a thought crime.  There is no evidence Dr. al-Haj has injured, neglected, or in any way harmed any of his patients, and furthermore, there are no formal complaints against him stemming from his practice.

The successful campaign was spearheaded, according to loons, by a lone Jihad Watcher, who garnered hundreds of signatures on a petition submitted to the Mayo Clinic alleging the doctor endorsed Female Genital Mutilation (FGM), and therefore posed a potential danger to his patients. The “smoking gun” and centerpiece of  the campaign against Dr. al-Haj is a paper he wrote seven years ago as part of his doctoral thesis. The paper was translated from Arabic into English by a notorious translator already exposed as incompetent by Loonwatch here.

The translation appears to be deliberately manipulative, and falsely attributes a quote to Dr. al-Haj saying FGM  is “an honor for women.” It is unclear whether Dr. al-Haj resigned under pressure or was fired by the Mayo Clinic in the wake of the manufactured “controversy,” but it is nevertheless an astounding achievement for bigots devoted to marginalizing Muslims in the West and demonizing Islam.

Dr. al-Haj is the latest victim caught in the crosshairs of a relentless, coordinated campaign to portray Muslims as misogynist and barbaric by falsely attributing FGM to Islam. In fact, FGM does not have its origins in Islam, is not practiced exclusively by Muslims, and is virtually unheard of in many Muslim-majority countries.

What is FGM?

Female Genital Mutilation is a term used by most human rights groups to describe various degrees of genital cutting performed on girls and women. The United Nations categorizes four major types:

Type 1:

Excision of the prepuce, with or without excision of part or all of the clitoris.

Type 2:

Excision of the clitoris with partial or total excision of the labia minora.

Type 3:

Excision of part or all of the external genitalia and stitching/narrowing of the vaginal opening (infibulation).

Type 4:

Others, such as pricking, piercing or incising, stretching, burning the clitoris, scraping of itssue surrounding the vaginal orifice, cutting of the vagina, introduction of corrosive substances or herbs into the vagina to cause bleeding or to tighten the opening.

How prevalent are these procedures?

Although bigots always cite the most extreme forms of FGM and the corresponding side effects, Types I and II are most common, accounting for about 85% of all FGM procedures. Type III is mostly confined to Somalia, northern Sudan and Djibouti, and the highest rates of FGM today are found in parts of Africa:

FGM Map

Why is FGM performed?

FGM is sometimes viewed as necessary to control a woman’s sexuality, and though evidence contradicts this notion, some believe FGM helps to to ensure virginity and fidelity by diminishing sexual desire. In some tribal communities, FGM is part of traditional initiation rituals for girls entering womanhood, and continuation of the practice is sometimes bolstered by myths, such as the notion an uncut clitoris will grow to the size of a penis.

In other cases FGM is incorrectly thought to enhance fertility and improve hygiene, and some perceive it as more aesthetically pleasing. Some practitioners also believe it is religiously sanctioned or mandated, and in some communities, it is a prerequisite to marriage.

Is FGM a Muslim problem?

FGM does not have its origins in Islam, but it does need to be discussed among Muslims for several reasons. The practice is widespread in some Muslim majority countries, especially in Africa, and in countries like Somalia and Egypt, large majorities of girls undergo some form of FGM.

There is no direct correlation between religion and FGM. However, Muslims in areas where the practice is common often conflate this cultural inheritance with religion, believing FGM is either mandated or at least recommended, in Islam.

What is the origin of FGM?

Despite the fact many hate sites refer to FGM as “Islamic,” its is an ancient practice that predates Islam by centuries. FGM is thought to have originated under the Pharoahs of ancient Egypt, which is why Type III procedures are sometimes referred to as “pharaonic circumcision.” Archeologists have found circumcised female mummies, and in the fifth century BCE, Herodotus reported the practice among the Phoenicians and Ethiopians, as well as Egyptians, which means FGM predates Christianity as well.

Various forms of female genital cutting have also been traced to parts of Africa, the Philippines, the Upper Amazon in South America, and to parts of Australia where aborigines performed FGM and in some areas, still do. Female genital cutting also occurred among the early Romans.

In Victorian times, clitoridectomies were performed in Western countries.  The first reported clitoridectomy in the West was carried out in Berlin in 1822 by Isaac Baker Brown, an English gynecologist who was the president of the Medical Society of London. He believed that “unnatural irritation” of the clitoris caused epilepsy, hysteria, and mania, and would remove it whenever he had the opportunity. His views sparked outrage and he was eventually expelled from the Obstetrical Society, though he certainly was not alone in believing removal of the clitoris was a legitimate treatment. As recently as the 1950s, clitoridectomies were sometimes performed in Western Europe and the United States to treat various “ailments,” including hysteria, epilepsy, mental disorders, masturbation, nymphomania, melancholia and lesbianism.

What’s being done to end the practice worldwide?

Fortunately, FGM has already been eradicated in many regions, and in 2003, the United Nations launched the International Day of Zero Tolerance to Female Genital Mutilation as part of a campaign to end the practice worldwide. In recent years, a growing number of countries have passed laws banning FGM. However, laws alone are not enough to eradicate the practice, and may in some cases, merely drive FGM underground.

Firmly entrenched in some societies where it has been practiced for centuries, FGM is viewed as essential by some families, regardless of their religious affiliation. If physicians are banned by law from performing any form of FGM, families sometimes resort to an unlicensed practitioner who may use crude tools in an unsanitary environment, causing further pain, trauma, and potential complications. Stiff penalties also may deter families from seeking proper medical attention if complications arise, further endangering the lives of girls who undergo the procedure despite the ban.

This brings us back to Dr. Al-Haj, who discussed in his paper the “ritual nick” as a possible alternative to other forms of FGM, which in some cases may appease families convinced FGM is necessary without causing permanent harm to the girl or woman. This suggestion caused a firestorm of protest, yet it is noteworthy that the supposedly “radical” position espoused by Dr. al-Haj in his paper was endorsed in 2010 by the American Academy of Pediatrics as reported in the New York Times. Criticizing a federal law that prohibits all forms of female genital procedures, including the ritual nick, the group said:

It might be more effective if federal and state laws enabled pediatricians to reach out to families by offering a ritual nick as a possible compromise to avoid greater harm. ~ The American Academy of Pediatrics

No matter how adamant and eager activists may be to end the practice, social change is a process, and it takes time. The strategy for eliminating the practice should first and foremost take into account the health and well being of girls and women, and not the politics of bigotry.

The Other Side of the Story

Many of the hate sites crowing about their victory include a link to Dr. al-Haj’s website, despite the fact his thoughtful explanation undermines their case against him:

I have always condemned Female Genital Mutilation, or FGM. Moreover, I have unequivocally voiced both orally and in written form the condemnation of all harmful forms of Female Genital Cutting FGC, justifiably known as FGM. Furthermore, I have taught that nothing in Islamic Law and religious texts supports such a heinous crime. In fact, it is repugnant to Islamic principles and values to inflict such trauma and suffering on any female. The severest forms of this practice are akin to killing in Islamic Law.

The statements I have made, that are now being unfairly distorted against me, are those regarding a subtype of Female Genital Cutting FGC, a harmless procedure called the ritual nick. This subtype doesn’t involve any form of clitorectomy. It is merely an incision (or a minimal excision, as explained in the details below) of part of the clitoral hood, the counterpart to the foreskin in males, and does not remove any part of the clitoris. This opinion is scientifically irrefutable and shared by many American non-Muslim pediatricians. It is the position expressed by the Committee on Bioethics of the American Academy of Pediatrics. [Pediatrics Vol. 125 No. 5 May 1, 2010 pp. ‎‎1088 -1093‎.], which noted:

“This [the ritual nick] is no more of an alteration than ear piercing. A legitimate concern is that parents who are denied the cooperation of a physician will send their girls back to their home country for a much more severe and dangerous procedure or use the services of a non–medically trained person in North America.”…

The claim that I said, “Female genital mutilation is an honor” is so repugnant. The statement sounds to me like an intractable conflict. However, my opponents have used against me every other logical fallacy in their campaign, such as generalization, poisoning the well, straw man, etc. Therefore, it does not surprise me that they ascribed such statement to me.

Despite my acknowledgment of the harmlessness of the ritual nick, I have unwaveringly discouraged all people from having it done because of its illegality in the US. I have never advised, suggested or encouraged any of my patients or their families to undertake any type of female circumcision, including the ritual nick…

The smear campaigns against me are unfounded in that they are based on religious bias, ignorance and misconceptions of my real positions and actions on the issues at hand. These defamers have misquoted me, taken excerpted words out of context, distorted my position and plainly fabricated lies against me in order to vilify me as some type of evil, backward extremist physician. I am none of these things. Quite the contrary, I give medical care to my young female patients, as I would my own daughters…”

Read the Rest here: http://www.drhatemalhaj.com/

Whatever one thinks of the “lesser evil” of a ritual nick, it doesn’t seem as if mere discussion of the prospect should cost a doctor his job. As Dr. al-Haj has said, and even the loons admit, he has never performed any form of FGM, has never seen any such procedure performed, and has never actually recommended it to any patient. His paper merely provided an overview of Muslim opinion with respect to FGM.

Circumcision in Islam: A Wide Range of Opinions

Hate sites put an emphasis on any evidence they can harvest to suggest FGM is mandated by Sharia (Islamic Law). Fortunately, they are not able to present evidence from the Qur’an, nor reliable hadith, promoting the practice of FGM. They must resort to quoting dubious sources, ranging from uneducated villagers to imams whose credibility is highly questionable, and who are not recognized authorities in the Muslim community. In the absence of a comprehensive global survey, it is impossible to determine how widespread support for FGM is among Muslim scholars. However, it is clear there is a broad range of opinion regarding the practice.

Despite Pamela Geller’s constant reference to “clitoridectomies” as being “Islamic,” there is apparently no credible Muslim scholar who believes removal of the clitoris is mandated in Islam. Based on his interpretation of the ”Reliance of the Traveller,” a classical manual for the Shafi’i school of Islamic jurisprudence written over 600 years ago, American-born Sheikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller has said that circumcision is mandatory, and includes removing the prepuce of the penis in men and the prepuce of the clitoris in women. His opinion is based not on the Qur’an, but an interpretation of the Sunnah, and he makes it clear that this does not include removal of the clitoris itself. Keller distinguishes between the procedure he advocates, which he refers to as “circumcision,” and what he considers to be female genital mutilation.

Other prominent Muslim scholars have issued fatwas against FGM in all its forms. In 2006, leaders from around the world gathered in Egypt and ruled female circumcision un-Islamic, and the following year, Egypt’s Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa issued a fatwa against the practice. Gomaa said FGM is not commanded in the Qur’an, nor the hadith, and while it may have been accepted in the past, studies showing dangers to health make it unacceptable today.

Gomaa also pointed out that there is no record of the Prophet Muhammad’s wives or daughters ever having undergone the procedure, and suggested it was an unwelcome innovation stemming from cultural tradition. The full fatwa can be read on his website here.

Gomaa received support from the Grand Sheikh of Egypt’s prestigious Al-Azhar University, Muhammad Sayyed Thanthawi. Thanthawi said female circumcision is prohibited and cannot be justified on religious grounds. Despite the loons consistent efforts to present inauthentic hadiths as evidence of support for FGM, Thanthawi also confirmed that FGM is justified neither by the Qur’an nor reliable hadith, and further stated that circumcision in Islam applies only to men.

While the circumcision of men is a majority opinion, it is further testament to diversity that some Muslim scholars believe all forms of circumcision are prohibited in Islam. They cite passages in the Qur’an (40:64, 64:3, 95:4, 4:119, and 6:38) as evidence that God created the human being in the desired state, without need for alteration, and argue that circumcision violates the central theme of compassion in Islam.

The Prophet Muhammad is said to have been born without a foreskin (aposthetic), and while some Muslims argue boys should be circumcised in order to emulate the Prophet, opponents point out it is possible to glean the opposite message: since the Prophet Muhammad obviously didn’t undergo circumcision, boys today can best follow his example by not being circumcised.

Don’t expect to see this wide range of opinion on the issue of circumcision on hate sites devoted to portraying Muslims as a monolith. Anyone sincerely devoted to ending the practice of FGM should be promoting statements by Grand Mufti Gomaa and like minded scholars to spread the good news FGM is not mandated in Islam. Instead, bigots masquerading as “human rights activists” use their considerable resources to spread the opposite message, putting their agenda ahead of the interests of the girls and women whose rights they pretend to represent.

The Fate of Dr. al-Haj

Emboldened by their ill-conceived victory, anti-Muslim bigots have waged a new campaign aimed at having the doctor’s license to practice medicine revoked as well. Because their baseless accusations can’t stand up to even rudimentary scrutiny, the new campaign should fail. Unfortunately, in the current climate, where irrationality and knee-jerk reactions often prevail, they may very well succeed in sacrificing Dr. al-Haj’s career and reputation on the alter of anti-Muslim bigotry.

It is shocking and disappointing that the Mayo Clinic would take action based on this devious and dishonest witch hunt. Dr. al-Haj is guilty of nothing more than being a Muslim and engaging in a “thought crime,” perpetrated years ago in a paper written as part of his doctoral thesis. If the prestigious Mayo Clinic is willing to cave into a few loud-mouthed bigots based on a campaign of lies and distortions, what’s next for Western Muslims?

  • Just Stopping By

    @Géji and @Hgg:

    If the two of you agree on something, the end of the world may be near. ;-)

    I will think about it, but it is not “a stray comment here or there” that worries me. This site has some a lot of double standards and biases. Now, before anyone jumps on me, I think the same of most advocacy sites, and I have seen some in the opposite direction. Nor am I immune: I have read articles around the Internet that I agreed with and thought were quite fair only to see a commenter point out something biased that I completely overlooked.

    I have learned from what I read on LW, but I will admit that there have been times when I have left here feeling saddened that this is what a claimed anti-hate site has to offer. As for my friends, I will think about it more, but if you can’t or don’t see the biases here the way I do, then with all due respect, you can’t really imagine how showing them this as a “good” pro-Muslim site could have negative implications.

  • HGG

    @JSB I have to say I agree with Geji here. Yes, there are some worthless comments by fake doctors and miscellaneous trolls; maybe a few members here and there from various religions with some rather uncomfortable and/or backwards thoughts, but I’ve found that for the most part even the comments are good, and so are the editors.

    I don’t think it can hurt. If they already lean towards Anti-Muslim sentiment, I doubt a stray comment here or there will be what turns them against Muslims. But I believe that, for example, reading Ilisha’s articles, or Emperor’s, or Garibaldi’s might help them go towards a better understanding.

  • Sabhanak Yarabi

    Well said Doctor, that makes a lot of sense. Well, I suppose if you don’t need the help of atheists, homosexuals, agnostics, anti-circumcisionists, animal rights activists, people against vaccines, the left, the right, the center, etc, etc, we should take our services elsewhere, by default. Seems like you’d want all the help you could get, but I guess you have it under control. It doesn’t really seem like you have it under control to me, but that’s probably just because I’m an illiterate atheist extremist who wants to spread STDs.

    Oops! I mean, “Yur rite. gud bi docter em, nd gud luk.”

    مع السلامة يا طبيب

  • Géji

    @Just Stopping By Says: “I have sometimes thought of suggesting this site to friends who may be somewhat Islamophobic to help them see otherwise,”

    Salaam JSB, if its ok I give my two cents worth of suggestion suggesting this site, I would say go ahead, whatever they may encounter and get from this site, or from its posting section, its still better than not knowing at all, even if its not all that positive contact at first, we never know something good may come out of it. And particularly if they’re “somewhat Islamophobic” as you say, that’s even better since I think the greatest contributor to any type of bigotry its the lack of communication from the concerned parties.

  • Géji

    @Sabhanak Yarabi says: “Meanwhile the Muslims are losing ground, ostracizing themselves by driving away potential friends.”

    1 – Dear Ms/Mr Yarabi, its a good thing that you want to denounce offensive posts, and I understand your point. But it will be much better if you’d denounce them on all sides, and not just when it concerns or directed at Atheism, in order to be at least consistent in your condemnation.

    Example, on the article – Ma’an News: Settlers Storm Nablus Village, 5 Palestinians Detained – one atheist that goes by the name “Awesome Atheist” said on June 7th, 2012 at 3:03 pm …

    Quote: “Here are the three most ridiculous and stupid religions in the world, beginning with Christianity:

    1) Christianity

    2) Judaism

    3) Islam”

    I think that to be very offensive to adherents of those faiths he/she arrogantly deems “most ridiculous and stupid in the world” .

    2- I’m sorry to say this, and though I think you meant well, nonetheless, if you think few misguided inflammatory comments from some Muslims regarding Atheism (which I think those comments are more directed at some atheist bigots than Atheism itself) will drive you away from becoming a potential friend to Muslims, then perhaps your conviction to become their potential friend in the first place aren’t maybe strong enough.

  • Al

    Thank you SOOOO much for a very well written and thought provoking article. I really enjoyed reading it and am linking it now!

  • DrM

    Sabhanak Yarabi,

    You also seem unable to read, in addition to being blind. I will respond to any and all atheist(or theist) trolls and fanatics as I see fit, and I don’t care if it upsets you. Who turned this into a debate on male circumcision? Not the Muslims, so go back and read it again till it sinks in. You lot scream “freedom of speech” when you go on anti-religious diatribes and provocations but the moment the tables are turned(and on two of the atheist trolls at that) you can’t stop whining. You can’t silence rebuttals by playing victim. Don’t even attempt to teach me medicine because you can’t stomach the fact that there’s nothing wrong with male circumcision. Unlike myself, you’re NOT a doctor, and the handful of quacks(many of them atheists with an anti-religious agenda) you cite in the medical community are dismal minority of extremists which no one educated on the topic takes seriously. They belong in the same category as the anti-vaccine nutters. While we’re at it, let me throw the PETA “meat is murder” fanatics in there as well for good measure. No amount of fear mongering nonsense on the subject will overturn the mountain of scientific evidence for it. We don’t need your “support,” we will fight Islamophobia on our own accord, not yours. We will not be dictated to by the likes of you or the far right. It’s as simple as that. Don’t like it? Too bad, get over yourself.

  • Just Stopping By

    @Sabhanak Yarabi says, “Meanwhile the Muslims are losing ground, ostracizing themselves by driving away potential friends. … Nowhere is this more apparent than the comments section of loonwatch articles.”

    I think there are other places where it is more apparent, but I agree with your general point. Still, it is up to Muslims to decide what positions they wish to take and how to express those positions.

    I have sometimes thought of suggesting this site to friends who may be somewhat Islamophobic to help them see otherwise, but, for various reasons, I am not sure what the net effect of their browsing the site would be.

  • http://aayjay.wordpress.com AJ

    “if you continue to read that article you will see the writer is not entirely unbiased.”

    When I take Tylenol, it controls my fever and when I take Motrin, it controls my headaches… I am kind of biased you know…

  • Sabhanak Yarabi

    @DrM:  Freedom of speech has nothing to do with not allowing hateful rhetoric on a site dedicated to combating hateful rhetoric.   You can go cut the tips of your kids penises all you want — have at it!   But fact is, many doctors and pediatricians disagree with it and the religiously-motivated evidence cited to justify it.  So going on these anti-atheist tirades and making comments suggesting that atheists are ignorant of medical facts and anyone against circumcision wants to spread STDs is assinine and not at all unlike the behavior the anti-Islam crowd.  

    I’ve been following this anti-Islamaphobia movement for a while, and have come to the conclusion that the reason the anti-Islam movement is gaining so much more ground is that they know how to appeal to a much larger demographic by embracing groups they would normally be at odds with (atheists, feminists, homosexuals, humanists, etc…).

    Meanwhile the Muslims are losing ground, ostracizing themselves by driving away potential friends.  Unwilling to even overlook sectarian differences in some cases and unite against a common cause.  Nowhere is this more apparent than the comments section of loonwatch articles.  

    Until more Muslims recognize this and adjust accordingly, you’ll never gain traction.

  • http://aayjay.wordpress.com AJ

    “Unlike you I try not be bigoted in my views.”

    Who are you fooling?

  • Steve

    @AJ, if you continue to read that article you will see the writer is not entirely unbiased.

    @DrM, “When he said that violent EDL thugs should be ignored and not confronted while they rampage through and terrorize neighborhoods”

    That’s a job for the police, and not counter groups to wade in and make the sutuation worse.

    “He compounded that even further by insisting upside down swastika graffiti in Muslim graveyards could not be the work of neo-Nazi scum”

    I have pointed out many times to you that I have never said that. You are making things up and becoming upset about them, it’s like a child imagining a monster under a bed and then becoming frightened by it.

    “Add it the general cavalier dismissal of Islamophobia(writing books against Islamophobia is for profit, and no different then those who make a living spreading it)”

    I have said that claims of islamophobia are rather overblown, I don’t however deny it exists.

    “peppered with anti-religious bigotry”

    I am not religious and find religion to often to be rather distasteful. Unlike you I try not be bigoted in my views.

    It really is very difficult for civilised adults to hold a debate when people such as yourself are yapping on the sidelines and frothing at the mouth spouting unfounded allegations despite your crazed assertions being constantly shown to be baseless.

  • CJONE

    @DrM

    I couldn’t agree with you more re: Steve.

    He’s a moron who posts absolute tripe.

  • Garibaldi

    @Jack,

    Ilisha mentioned that above. Dr.al-Haj also wrote this:

    Despite my acknowledgment of the harmlessness of the ritual nick, I have unwaveringly discouraged all people from having it done because of its illegality in the US. I have never advised, suggested or encouraged any of my patients or their families to undertake any type of female circumcision, including the ritual nick…

  • Jack

    Hatem al Haj has written a clarification on his position on female circumcision.

    In short, it amounts to his: a ritual ‘nick’ in the clitoral hood (prepuce) or removal of (part of the clitoral hood) would be permissable both according to islamic law and regular medical ethics, but excision or damaging of the clitoris itself is a big no-no for dr. Al Haj, both from a medical standpoint as well as from an islamic point of view.

    “I have always condemned Female Genital Mutilation, or FGM. Moreover, I have unequivocally voiced both orally and in written form the condemnation of all harmful forms of Female Genital Cutting FGC, justifiably known as FGM.

    Furthermore, I have taught that nothing in Islamic Law and religious texts supports such a heinous crime. In fact, it is repugnant to Islamic principles and values to inflict such trauma and suffering on any female. The severest forms of this practice are akin to killing in Islamic Law. (..)

    The statements I have made, that have now being unfairly distorted against me, are those regarding a subtype of Female Genital Cutting FGC, a harmless procedure called the ritual nick. This subtype doesn’t involve any form of clitorectomy. It is merely an incision (or a minimal excision, as explained in the details below) of part of the clitoral hood, the counterpart to the foreskin in males, and does not remove any part of the clitoris.

    This opinion is scientifically irrefutable and shared by many American non-Muslim pediatricians. It is the position expressed by the Committee on Bioethics of the American Academy of Pediatrics. [Pediatrics
    Vol. 125 No. 5 May 1, 2010 pp. ‎‎1088 -1093‎.], which noted: “This
    [the ritual nick] is no more of an alteration than ear piercing. A legitimate concern is that parents who are denied the cooperation of a physician will send their girls back to their home country for a much more severe and dangerous procedure or use the services of a non–medically trained person in North America.”

    http://www.drhatemalhaj.com/

  • DrM

    Ahmed said

    “Please do not go around throwing wild allegations against people you do not even know.”

    I’m not making “wild allegations,” I know stevie fairly well based on his obnoxious trolling. Read his comments on different articles with discretion and you’ll see what him for what he really is. When he said that violent EDL thugs should be ignored and not confronted while they rampage through and terrorize neighborhoods, that’s a serious red flag. He compounded that even further by insisting upside down swastika graffiti in Muslim graveyards could not be the work of neo-Nazi scum. Add it the general cavalier dismissal of Islamophobia(writing books against Islamophobia is for profit, and no different then those who make a living spreading it), peppered with anti-religious bigotry. Do your homework.

    stevie blunder,

    “The fact is that unnecessarily lopping bits off a baby is mutilation.”

    Except that it’s not a “fact,” but the repetitive, weak, ill informed opinion of an irrelevant atheist buffoon like yourself. Your problem stevie is that hatred of faith has made you blind in your stupidity to the real facts. The science is in : you’re wrong, we’re right, end of story. Now go cry in a corner somewhere, troll.

  • http://aayjay.wordpress.com AJ

    “If there was a cheap, safe, one-dose vaccine that gave your newborn boy significant lifelong protection against AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases, as well as protection against cancer and various annoying infections, would you get it for him? Well, there is one. It’s called neonatal circumcision.

    In studies published in the past decade, the removal of the foreskin provided a 50% reduction in HIV transmission, a threefold reduction in human papillomavirus (HPV) infections in female partners of circumcised men (HPV can cause cervical cancer), and lower rates of syphilis and chlamydia, which causes sterility and is the main sexually transmitted disease among teenagers. Circumcised infants were also roughly 10 times less likely to suffer urinary tract infections and the high fevers associated with them. And circumcision virtually eliminates serious penile cancers, which invade about 1 in 100,000 uncircumcised men.”

    Read more at:
    http://men.webmd.com/guide/circumcision-decision-weighing-risks-benefits

    Can someone tell us the benefits of FGM?

    There is a reason that God of the Abrahamic religions told us to circumcise boys and not girls! Steve and the rest of the Atheists United, London (and elsewhere), carry on your tirade against male circumcision, halal/kosher meats, mosques, etc, etc. You can’t stop God! :)

  • Steve

    @DrM, your language, attitude and false accusations do you no favours.

    The fact is that unnecessarily lopping bits off a baby is mutilation.

  • Ahmed

    DrM,

    Please do not go around throwing wild allegations against people you do not even know. I m debating Steve on a couple of threads – yes, I am having difficulty understanding his double standard when it comes to doing things to children that they wish had not happened to them when they grow older, but I have seen nothing to suggest Steve is an atheist (and even if he is, that has no relevance at all), or a member of the EDL.

  • DrM

    Sabhanak Yarabi,

    You must be blind as a bat. You have the other way round. A handful of bigoted atheist trolls like stevie(an EDL sympathizer and obnoxious contraction troll) and the fake pediatrician are the ones posting rubbish. Why should they not have their nonsense challenged and debunked? You want to ban those who disagree with these hacks? How freedom of speechy of you. Male circumcision is NOT mutilation, only a ignorant buffoon with an anti-religious agenda would utter such nonsense. HOw amusing to see so called rationalists being on the wrong side of science. As I said earlier the ill informed and have no business pontificating on this subject.
    No reason why the far left shouldn’t get their lumps, like the far right.

  • Garibaldi

    @Jasmine,

    Thank you for your perspective. It is very vital and important to hear the voices of those familiar with cultures that have the practice of FGM.

    I stop and wonder if people who demonize these people for the expressed intention of demonizing a faith and cashing-in at the same time, stop and question the deleterious effects they are having on ending such practices.

  • Ahmed

    @Steve,

    I have never met anybody who detests the fact they ate meat as children. You probably need to address your argument to somebody who has.

    And I have never met any guy who hates the fact that they were circumcised as a child. Does this mean that such people do not exist?

    A simple google would have shown you that there are people who hate the fact they ate meat as a child.

    http://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=369071273110778&id=116339545050620
    “I wish I had never eaten meat at all because as soon as I had a good understanding of what it was, I swore off it for life”

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080616090811AAjqZCb
    “i’m just starting to be a vegetarian, and when i think of the way i used to eat, it does sicken me. when i think of putting a steak in my mouth, i now think of a poor bloody dead rotting cow, and it makes me wish i had never eaten meat”

    http://www.gaiaonline.com/profiles/too-much-tylenol/2453555/?mode=comments&start=280
    “I WOULD NEVER DARE TOUCH MEAT NOW, INFACT I WISH I HAD NEVER EATEN MEAT BEFORE I STOPPED EATING IT. THE THOUGHT LITERALLY MAKES ME SICK.”

    http://fraser04.5.forumer.com/index.php?s=0461bdf1465f88da065342de576953a6&showtopic=101&st=15
    “i wish i had never eaten meat – but its not like at the age of 2 i was like “where does this come from”

    And I personally have met people who feel repulsed by the fact they ate meat as children.

    Therefore, I am asking you a very simple question – you think it is immoral to pierce a girl’s ears, because it should be her own choice. Yet you’re not against feeding a child meat, even though many of these children (some 8-11% in the UK) will grow up to find the eating of meat to be wrong. Why do you have a double standard?

  • Yusuf

    @ Garibaldi, I can email him and tell him you would like to talk with him.

  • Steve

    “Islam can be used to stop it if shieks come about and remind the muslim population that it is haram to alter what God gave you”

    They would have to argue male circumcision is haram too

  • http://www.loonwatch.com Garibaldi

    If anyone of our readers or commenters knows Dr. Haj, can they tell him to get into contact with us at: info@loonwatch.com. Currently, his personal site does not contain a “contact” form.

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