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Mosque Bomb Threat Suspect Pleads Not Guilty

By on July 24, 2012 in Loon Flashback, Loon at large

(Via IslamophobiaToday.com)

Mosque Bomb Threat Suspect Pleads Not Guilty

MURFREESBORO, Tenn. – A Texas man accused of making terrorist threats against a local mosque has pleaded not guilty.

Javier Alan Correa turned himself in to U.S. Marshals in Nashville for processing on Monday.

David Boling, the spokesman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Nashville, said Correa was released on his own recognizance. No future hearings have yet been scheduled.

The 23-year-old from Corpus Christi was indicted by a federal grand jury in June. He is accused of threatening to blow up the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro on the 10th anniversary of 9/11.

The curse filled message left on a machine at the center said “there’s going to be a bomb in the building.”

Authorities traced the call back to Correa, who lives in Corpus Christi, Texas.

Correa also is charged with violating the civil rights of mosque members by using a threat of force to interfere with the free exercise of their religious beliefs.

He could face up to 20 years in prison if convicted.

The mosque has been at the center of a fierce debate since 2010. Opponents recently prevailed in a court case that challenged its construction.

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    • Terrorist threats? Why this is freedom of speech?!

      [sarcasm]

  • mindy1

    *Sigh* why must people hate other people for no reason

Sodomy for Jihad or Islamophobic Hoax?

By on July 18, 2012 in Anti-Loons, Loon Media

Sodomy for Suicide

The Sodomy for Jihad hoax is making rounds all across the looniverse, on hate sites like Jihad Watch, Frontpage Magazine, and Winds of Jihad. Canada’s right wing Sun News also published the story and featured commentary from the ubiquitous native informant, Tarek Fatah.

The story even made its way onto an well-known U.S. based national gay and lesbian news magazine before it was debunked by the Electronic Intifada.

Sodomy for jihad? Venerable LGBT magazine The Advocate spreads vile Islamophobic hoax

by Benjamin Doherty

Screenshot from The Advocate article The Religious Exemption: Sodomy for Suicide Bombers that shows a photo collage with an erroneous caption.

Note: This post contains a translation of a sexually explicit and defamatory joke targeting Muslims

The Advocate, an important US-based national gay and lesbian news magazine, has published a homophobic, racist, sectarian and Islamophobic hoax as if it is actual news.

An article headlined “The Religious Exemption: Sodomy for Suicide Bombers” by Advocate.com editor Lucas Grindley published 12 July 2012 makes the following astonishing claim:

Suicide bombers were allowed to ask fellow militants for anal sex so it would be easier to hide explosives in their rectums — at least according to a researcher at a conservative think tank.

Raymond Ibrahim, a fellow at the conservative David Horowitz Freedom Center, said he’s found a 2010 Arab news video in which a Muslim cleric is caught explaining why sodomy is permissible if part of “martyrdom operations.”

“Is it permissible for me to let one of the jihadi brothers sodomize me to widen my anus if the intention is good?” someone asks cleric Abu al-Dema al-Qasab, according to Ibrahim’s account.

Although the cleric reminds everyone that sodomy is forbidden, he offers an exception.

“Jihad comes first,” he said, according to Ibrahim’s translation, “for it is the pinnacle of Islam, and if the pinnacle of Islam can only be achieved through sodomy, then there is no wrong in it.”

Origins of a Hoax

This claim reported by The Advocate is pure nonsense. It is a hoax purveyed by someone affiliated with the David Horowitz Freedom Center, an extreme right-wing organization whose founder and namesake is well-known for uncivil and racist attacks on liberal, progressive and leftist political groups.

The Advocate’s source is Raymond Ibrahim, a fellow at the Horowitz Center and at the Middle East Forum, who claimed that the religious directive was contained in a “2010 Arabic news video that aired on Fadak TV” and was advice given to Abdullah Hassan al-Asiri, who blew himself up in an attempt to assassinate Saudi Prince Muhammad bin Nayif in 2009. Some press reports stated that al-Asiri had carried explosives in his rectum.

In his post on the Gatestone Institute, Ibrahim elaborates:

Apparently a cleric, one Abu al-Dema al-Qasab, informed al-Asiri and other jihadis of an “innovative and unprecedented way to execute martyrdom operations: place explosive capsules in your anus. However, to undertake this jihadi approach you must agree to be sodomized for a while to widen your anus so it can hold the explosives.”

This is the video he’s writing about.

To a non-Arabic speaker, it would be reasonable to believe that the person speaking in the video is “Abu al-Dema al-Qasab” because Ibrahim does not give any context to the video. Apparently The Advocate believed this, because it posted a screenshot of the man from the video next to a photo of al-Asiri with the following caption:

Cleric Abu al-Dema al-Qasab (left) reportedly said suicide bombers like Abdullah Hassan al-Asiri (right), who hid explosives in his rectum, were allowed anal sex.

However, the person in the video is Abdallah al-Khallaf, host of “The morals of the Prophets, Peace Be Upon Them,” a show broadcast on UK-based satellite channel Fadak TV whose target audience is Shia Muslims.

In the video, al-Khallaf tells the audience that he is going to read an item from a website called “Muntadayat Usud al-Sunna” (Lions of the Sunnah forums).

Al-Khallaf reads the item from the website as if it is real. He also characterizes the alleged protagonists as “Wahhabis.” It appears his intention is to incite his audience’s disgust at the supposed thinking and behavior of Wahhabi Sunni Muslims who, he suggests, will justify anything in pursuit of their goals.

“one Abu al-Dema al-Qasab”

I found the likely source that Abdallah al-Khallaf reads in the video. The Internet Archive includes a forum post from 28 August 2009 on montdiatna.com.

The text appears to be at best an extremely vulgar joke and at worst sectarian defamation. It is written in a style commonly used for stories in which both the teller and listener know it is a joke or fiction.

The Electronic Intifada has translated this text into English. Please be warned that it contains very explicit language and imagery:

It is said that the terrorist who blew himself up in an attempt to assassinate Prince Muhammad bin Nayif inserted capsules of explosives in his anus like suppositories.

It is said – only God knows – that before he acted, the terrorist asked a sheikh, that he intends to insert explosive capsules in his rectum, seeking jihad, in order to carry out jihad operations, in desire for virgins.

The terrorist asked the sheikh the question in the following way: Our Sheikh, May God give you martrydom and virgins in paradise. I want to carry out a martrydom operation and so I presented myself to “Sheikh Bloody Butcher” [Sheikh Abu al-Dema al-Qasab].

He told me we devised a completely new and unprecedented way for martyrdom operations and that is to put explosives in your rectum. And in order to train you for this method of jihad you must agree to be sodomized for a period in order that your anus will be widened such that your rectum can take the explosives.

And my question, God have mercy on you: Is it permitted to offer my anus to one of the mujahidin brothers if the intention is pure and the goal is to train for jihad, and to widen my rectum?

And the sheikh offered praise to God and said: In principle sodomy is forbidden and out of the question. Except that jihad comes first, it is the pinnacle of Islam. And if the pinnacle of Islam cannot be achieved except through sodomy then there is no wrong in it.

The jurisprudential rule says: necessity overcomes what is forbidden. And if the only way to carry out a duty is with a certain thing, then that thing becomes a duty, and there is no greater duty than jihad.

After you are sodomized you must ask forgiveness from God and praise him abundantly and you must be certain my son that on Judgment Day, God rewards the mujahidin according to their intentions, and your intention, God willing is the victory of Islam.

This text, or versions with slight variations, can be found on several other websites by searching for the name “Sheikh Abu al-Dema al-Qasab” in Arabic.

Several features identify this story as a tasteless joke, especially the name “Sheikh Abu al-Dema al-Qasab.” It translates to Sheikh Bloody Butcher. This is not a real person. The post is peppered with phrases like “it is said” and “only God knows” which indicate storytelling.

The Advocate’s ongoing Islamophobic crusade

The Advocate was a cornerstone of the LGBT civil rights movement, providing serious journalism and analysis since 1967 for a community that suffered discrimination and even violence as it struggled for legitimacy and recognition…

Read the Rest

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    • As-salaamu ‘aleykum, I’m from the future (2014 to be exact). I can attest that you are correct; this story is still making its rounds. Though the actors have changed, the script is the same. Tellingly, no-one can seem to produce the text of the fatwa in this latest version of the hoax.

    • Spartacus

      @CriticalDragon1177

      “Let me get this straight. So you expect me to believe that there are absolutely no tolerance for homosexuality in the UK Christian community as well?”

      There is measurable structural homophobia from all the major UK Christian institutions, including Anglicanism and Catholicism. A non-homophobic Christian belonging to those organisations should be treated like a stated “non-racist” who joins Stormfront.

      If you join or support an organisation that perpetuates homophobia you are perpetuating homophobia even if you claim to “disagree” with homophobia.

    • Isma’il Marshall

      This is an example of non-Muslims taking something at face value because they’re not aware of the sort of vulgar insult and joke telling that goes down in sectarian polemics between Sunnis and Shi’ah. I have seen with my own eyes countless instances of Sunnis and Shi’is producing made-up fatwas and reports to accuse the other group of approving of homosexuality, bestiality, necrophilia, and all sorts of other things. It’s extremely common on sectarian forums, and this is just an example of someone on a Shi’ah TV station sharing one of these obscene stories. Any Muslim or non-Muslim with any familiarity with sectarian rhetoric would immediately recognize that.

    • @Spartacus

      Let me get this straight. So you expect me to believe that there are absolutely no tolerance for homosexuality in the UK Christian community as well? How do you explain the existence of openly gay Christians and Muslims, and not to mention Christians and Muslims who openly support gay rights, including in the UK? Also how do you explain the studies in thoses stories that Ilisha linked to?

    • Spartacus

      That study was cited was published in the Guardian.

      Also, from the counter-study showed similar levels of homophobia to the Christian community – a community that has driven homophobia, opposed gay rights and marriage, and which creates a toxic atmosphere for gay people.

    • RDS

      So basically.

      -Satire was posted on a Wahhabi forum to poke fun at themselves, albeit a bit tasteless.

      -Satire was picked up by a Shia cleric to tell others that the Wahhabis are batsh*t insane to even consider that.

      -Satire is then picked up as news by Raymond Ibrahim et al., who obviously missed the intent and the paper trail.

      -Satire is then repeated as truth.

      This is like Onion News all over again!

    • @Ilisha

      I read about that “study” Spartacus sited, I knew it had to be false, immediately after I saw it. Even ignoring everything else, including the fact that its an extraordinary claim and the fact that I’ve heard about openly gay Muslims, even through I don’t know any personally. The thing I want to know is how did they bias that “study” so they got that result, assuming the people who first reported didn’t outright lie?

    • Spartacus

      This is a “vile” Islamophobic hoax when homophobia is rare within Islam rather than the norm.

      For example, UK Muslims have a “zero tolerance” view of homosexuality (500 British Muslims were interviewed, not one found homosexuality to be “morally acceptable” (Google for the 2009 poll).

      These attitudes, be they Islamic or Christian, their prevalence – both mainstream and community – create and perpetuate a malevolent environment for homosexuality.

      I see nothing wrong in documenting, and attacking, including satirising, the Catholic and evangelical Christian teachings about homosexuality and the malevolence their adherents can generate.

      And I see nothing wrong in extending that into the provably, measurably, murderously homophobic Islamic sects.

    • Of course it’s a hoax. All western closet army queens f.i. know that one does not need a buddy or sarge to get used to anal penetration. A set of dildos in increasing formats will do. Maybe the terrorists will be so amazed by the discovery that inside they have a clitoris too that they’ll forget all about the suicide plans?

    • corey

      Nassirh lets not forget that reymond ibrihim is the same idiot who came up with one of the most retarded articles from jw on how muslims with beards could be more dangerous then those without one http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/09/raymond-ibrahim-why-the-muslim-beard-bodes-trouble.html its like this guy loves coming up with idiotic bullshit to get people supportive of reducing muslims to second class citizens which would pretty much get bigots like sheik his mommy, morons at bni, geller and spencer to break out the champagne and declare it a “victory for human rights”

    • Nassir H.

      The fact that man in the video makes a crude joke against terrorists belies several common Islamophobic talking points. The mistranslation and spread of this video is more indicative of how dishonest “counterjihadists” are than anything else.

    • Nassir H.

      This blatantly fabricated story is still going to find its way around Islamophobic sites for years to come. Perhaps, like desensitized porn addicts, Islamophobes will need increasingly new and shocking material to satisfy their “hobby.” Thus, their “pornographers” (in this case, Raymond Ibrahim) will try to supply new material.

      Of course, you can’t really expect much from someone like Ibrahim. Apparently he couldn’t even keep his job as a librarian because of his bigotry. This isn’t the first time he has mistranslated Arabic and it certainly won’t be the last.

  • Dawood

    The content of the joke/tale and the duplicity involved in this are both disgusting!

    And what makes matters worse is that even the name “Shaykh Abu al-Dama’ al-Qasab”, or “the Bloody Butcher”, is instantly recognisable to anyone with Arabic ability as a play on words and entirely fake name. The fact that Raymond Ibrahim – who has been touted for his Arabic knowledge etc. previously by the Islamophobesphere – did not make that clear, shows his ulterior motives.

    It’s almost as bad as believing that Juha is a “Mullah” because the South Asian Muslims know him as Mulla Nasruddin!

More Fairytales from Geller about the EDL’s Bristol Demonstration

By on July 15, 2012 in Loon Politics, Loon Violence

Pamela Geller‘s defense of the EDL falls in the face of logic and facts–once again (Islamophobia-Watch):

More fairytales from Geller about the EDL’s Bristol demonstration

Having confidently predicted that “thousands” would be marching with the English Defence League yesterday to protest against the “Islamification of Bristol“, Pamela Geller has failed to explain why only a few hundred people turned out for what was advertised as a national mobilisation by the EDL.

Shifting her ground, she has now decided to emphasise the supposedly respectable, non-violent character of the EDL, reporting that they were “well-behaved” and “maintained a calm and peaceful assembly” during their Bristol protest (in contrast to their anti-fascist opponents, who Geller claims “trashed the city and assaulted police”).

However, as you can see from the above photograph (via the Press Association), it was only the weight of police numbers (officers had to be drafted in from as far away as Yorkshire to allow the deployment of a 1,000-strong riot control force) that prevented the EDL from attacking their opponents.

On their way home from the march, and without a police presence to restrain them, the EDL were free to indulge in their proclivity for drunken violence, as is illustrated by this Facebook comment (viaEDL News) from a witness who was, until then, an EDL supporter (and still shares their hatred of “scummy muslims”).

You can understand why Geller might want to cover up the violent nature of the EDL. She and her friend Robert Spencer are jointly launching a “worldwide counter-jihad alliance” with this gang of drunken thugs in Stockholm next month.

And we’re still waiting for Geller and Spencer to explain their support for an organisation that recently carried out an attack on a peaceful anti-monarchist protest in co-operation with the neo-Nazi, white supremacist and antisemitic National Front.

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    • Sam Seed

      @Critical, The Pamela Geller Blog Generator.

      That was really funny!

    • Jai

      This is the BBC News article about the EDL’s Bristol demonstration: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-18828908

      Full article:

      “Fourteen arrests and missiles thrown during Bristol demo

      Missiles have been thrown and 14 people arrested during two demonstrations in Bristol.

      Some 300 supporters of the English Defence League (EDL) marched from Redcliffe Wharf to Queen Square.

      A counter demonstration at the same time by We are Bristol took place at Castle Park.

      Avon and Somerset Police said “some missiles have been thrown” but they were now scaling back their operation as demonstrators returned home.

      On Twitter the force said it had responded to missiles being thrown and it had been “working to calm things down”.

      The violence broke out after both rallies had finished.

      The routes of both marches had been pre-planned to ensure demonstrators were kept apart.

      “Rubbish bins were overturned and set on fire, lumps of concrete were ripped off the wall and thrown at the police,” BBC reporter Nigel Dando at the scene said.

      He added that a group of people in Victoria Street had tried to charge police lines and that about 60 police in full riot gear had been at the scene.

      “There is a bit of standoff at the roundabout between Victoria Street and Redcliffe Way as the EDL supporters attempted to get to Temple Meads but police have stopped them at the moment,” he said.

      Fourteen arrests were made for alleged offences including a racially aggravated public order offence, refusal to remove face coverings after being asked to do so by police, assaulting a police officer and unlawful assembly.

      All those arrested remain in custody, Avon and Somerset Police said.

      It had drafted in officers from other police forces and there were about 1,000 officers on duty.

      Avon and Somerset Police said it would facilitate peaceful protests, but would tackle anyone who became involved in violence or disorder.

      A separate and unrelated march organised by the city’s gay community set off from Berkeley Square at 11:00 BST.

      The colourful procession snaked down Park Street to College Green for the Pride festival.”

      The Huffington Post also has a detailed article about the EDL’s demonstration in Bristol, including multiple photographs of EDL members and the police during the demonstration: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/07/14/english-defence-league-arrests-bristol_n_1673365.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

    • Sir David ( Illuminati membership number 5:32) Warning Contains Irony

      Chris said “I’m saying that I made myself a witness to see first hand”

      This really begs the question , er ….. Why ?

      I am sure the gay pride march was more colourful , entertaining and musical .

      Unless you are a supporter of the EDL ;-).

      I agree the BBC reports the truth about the EDL espicially the truth about there previous antics and the fact that a number of their members are currently inside jail contemplating the error of their violent ways .

      Sir David

    • Chris

      I’m saying that I made myself a witness to see first hand, which is why I know this article is lying.

      You can assume all you like, which appears to be all this site does.

      As for the images, it clearly says NF and was not part of the demonstration that happened in Bristol. For starters, that statue is not in Bristol, and if it was, it would of been all over the mainstream.

      Therefore, this article is nothing but a perversion of the truth and should not be considered newsworthy.

      As for the article it was attacking, it doesn’t matter. The truth was reported by Bristol’s local news and even by the BBC’s televised mainstream.

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Sheila Musaji: Robert Spencer Uses 4th of July to Spread Islamophobia

By on July 5, 2012 in Loon Blogs

Robert Spencer is lost

Spencer‘s always on the prowl to demean Muslims and spread Islamophobia (h/t: Critical Dragon):

Robert Spencer uses 4th of July to spread Islamophobia

by Sheila Musaji (The American Muslim)

Robert Spencer cannot let any opportunity go by to find a way to make a negative statement about Islam and Muslims.  Today, he used the occasion of the celebration of OUR nation’s Independence Day, the 4th of July to find a way to target American Muslims rather than to simply express his patriotism.

In his article, he lists four freedoms that “we” must defend.  In his commentary on what “we” must defend against, he uses only examples that he thinks represent Muslim attitudes at variance with the Constitution, and most of the examples he gives are from other countries, and from ancient texts.  According to the worldview Spencer is promoting, Muslims are anti-Constitution, anti-American, and untrustworthy and disloyal citizens.  It is clear that the “we” he refers to does not include Muslims.  He doesn’t mention any other individuals or groups who might pose a threat to our Constitution.  He also doesn’t mention any positive contributions of Muslims toward defending the Constitution and our freedoms.

Spencer only gives three references to American Muslims, and those in his first point.  Omar Ahmed, the individual accused of making one of the statements denies that he ever made this statement.  The supposed quote from the Muslim Brotherhood memorandum is questionable at best (see Muslim Brotherhood Document of the Muslim or Islamophobic Lunatic Fringe?).  The quote attributed to Ibrahim Hooper is not only out of context, but can be variously interpreted (see A response to Daniel Pipes’ allegations).

Here are the 4 freedoms Spencer mentions:

— 1. Freedom of religion, and non-establishment of religion.  “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” — First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution — 2. Freedom of speech “Congress shall make no law…abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press…” — First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution — 3. Equality of rights before the law “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” — Declaration of Independence — 4. Governments deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.  “That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…” — Declaration of Independence

I would agree with him on the importance of these freedoms and many more (for example,habeas corpus, the rule of law, civil rights, surveillance and profiling of citizens, etc.) and agree that all Americans must in every generation defend these freedoms from those who would undermine them.  American Muslims have strongly defended those freedoms:

1.  Freedom of religion, and non-establishment of religion.  American Muslim Academics/Scholars/Imams/Professionals issued a statement upholding the Freedom of Faith and the Freedom to Change one’s Faith.  And, many Muslims have spoken out about this issue.  See Apostasy and Freedom of Faith in Islam which includes a collection of articles.

2.  Freedom of speech.  American and Canadian Muslims issued a Defense of Freedom of Speech.  This statement specifically states that We uphold the First Amendment of the US Constitution and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.  Both protect freedom of religion and speech, because both protections are fundamental to defending minorities from the whims of the majority.

3. Equality of rights before the law, and 4. Governments deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. See below.

Read the rest…

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    • Sarah Brown

      That’s fair enough Ilisha – I have been arguing the same myself today!

      “Adrian – I think you, anyone, should be able to criticise Islam – to be Islamophobic indeed. I also think some strands of that criticism might reasonably be objected to by Muslims. I think they should, obviously, be able to articulate those objections. Then we can all make up our minds where we stand. It would be possible to agree that Islam is subjected to a lot of scrutiny, or make the kind of point I make in that comment I quote about people only focusing on the worst manifestations of Islam, without in any way wanting to censor such criticism of Islam.”

      And in both the instances I cite where I bore that piece by Danios in mind, I did so in a not unsympathetic spirit. Sometimes – and this is the same with some pieces I read about antisemitism – I may not quite agree, or not be sure whether I agree (there isn’t a litmus test) but do recognize that the concerns are sincerely felt and worth thinking about.

    • Sarah Brown

      Geji – well, I do wish you would comment to clear things up directly. Some of it is just anti-Islam (but do note that we have a couple of commenters who just can’t stand any religion) but some of it seems more genuinely challenging of some of the positions here maybe. I feel that, much of the time, I’m not so far away from ATL writers here, or if I don’t agree I see where they are coming from. For example, when I read the piece about Mona Eltahawy and Arab men I felt ambivalent as I felt that she should be able to say what she likes where she likes, and was raising some valid points. But I bore it in mind both when I posted about a pro-women march in Egypt (through emphasising in my post the presence of supportive men – that was where the piece here influenced me) and also when I posted about this piece about Alice Walker’s Israel boycott stuff –

      https://engageonline.wordpress.com/2012/06/23/alice-walkers-latest-bds-move/

      I quoted Danios as an interesting parallel. So – I’ll listen to you, but I listen to the people on HP as well and it gets hard to adjudicate when you don’t occupy the same spaces much.

    • Sam Seed

      @Mesa, this site is about fighting Islamophobia. Maybe you should ‘listen’ to what you write before making a judgment.

    • Géji

      @Sarah Brown: “It’s not premoderated and it’s very liberal”

      Sarah my dear, there’s nothing “liberal” about a free fall ignorant spewing, especially if there isn’t really substantial back up to stop the sinking, at the end all it does is just inevitably hit the floor. Some, if not most of those comments are just pretty appalling, it will take a whole lot of web to stop the chute.

    • Mesa

      Do you ever listen to yourselves speak? I have read your articles, responses, ideas, attitudes and wordings and it sounds worse than the rhetoric Spencer uses. Instead of looking to protest “Islamaphobia”, why not discuss the very many Muslim organizations? Give the names, addresses and positive outcomes from the very many American/Islamic demonstrations showing solidarity with OUR constitution! Perhaps then, more American Christians, Jews, Buddhists and others will be able to discuss the situation more intelligently.

    • Sarah Brown

      Yes, it is the same Adrian Morgan. I am not a fan of Spinwatch BTW. I don’t always agree with AM, and clearly the kind of profile you link to is going to pick out the most controversial pieces/incidents. But even though I – let alone you – don’t see eye to eye with him, that doesn’t itself invalidate any substantive points he might raise. He has actually argued extremely eloquently against anti-Muslim bigotry on many occasions, although I still accept he isn’t going to be your cup of tea!

      I am sorry you find some comments offensive – yes, I shouldn’t have given the impression that anything offensive, which is a subjective term, is deleted. I wish you would point out anything wrong, I mean factually wrong – either mention it here or there – the commenters who were more hostile to my post are also probably those most immersed in the issues, so it’s hard to get a complete picture.

    • Sarah Brown

      @Garibaldi – It’s not premoderated and it’s very liberal. Really offensive – say racist – comments are deleted. Unfortunately I don’t know enough about the specifics of Islam/Muslims in the US, so it has been difficult to know how to respond to some of the criticisms of Musaji.

    • Garibaldi

      @Sarah,

      You’re welcome.

      That’s a real interesting discussion that has ensued, is it a completely free comment policy at Harry’s Place?

    • Given the choice between the Muslim Brotherhood and a military party, I think Egyptians made the right choice. I just hope my country, the United States, backs off and allows Egypt to find it own way in its own democracy.

      This business that democracy and Islam are not compatable is nonsense. Iran had a democracy in the early 1950s. Unfortunately, England and the United States couldn’t stand the decisions being made in democratic Iran, i.e., the decision to own its own oil, and they, England & the U.S. staged an assassination and the return of authoritarian rule.

      I have this wish of my country regarding all other countries in the world: back off, let them be, and take care of your own backyard.

    • Garibaldi

      @Sarah, where was this question posed, and by who?

      We don’t have an official stance on the Muslim Brotherhood. Most of the articles about the MB on Loonwatch discuss the pervading myths in the West, especially in the USA, that somehow the MB is infiltrating and taking over not only our government but our societies, that they are using taqiyyah, stealth jihad, etc. to do so.

      I don’t see a theocratic totalitarian threat from the MB’s political party FJP. The FJP’s positions and statements have all been aligned towards embracing and affirming Republican and Democratic values/processes. As Islamic scholar Khaled Abou Fadl said recently in an interview with the Huffington Post that we re-posted,

      What you’re going to see is a lot of tension and friction forcing the Ikhwan (MB) to distinguish themselves from the Wahhabi and Salafi types. I think they’re going to draw closer to the model of [Tunisia’s] Ghannoushi and the Islamist party in Turkey. Among the Ikhwan themselves, no one is in any mood to talk about whether music is halal or haram, or whether women should be banned from this or that, or all that social stuff, while the Jama’a al-Islamiya (Wahhabist) are fantasizing about it. And I think there’s going to be a lot of friction, and ultimately the Ikhwan are going to be forced away from the Wahhabis. It’s very difficult to work with the Wahhabis or live with the Wahhabis long term, because they lack flexibility in their thought.

      Another positive indicator in terms of political Islam. I personally was surprised in this whole process how very few Egyptians even contemplated the idea of living in a state resembling the Iranian or Saudi model. Even those who voted for the Ikhwan believe that personal piety might make people less corrupt, but I haven’t encountered any substantial numbers who say, “We vote for the Ikhwan because they will rule in the name of God and apply God’s law, which is infallible.” I definitely think this whole experience in Tunisia, and Egypt, and Syria is a return to authenticity in the sense that no one is denying their Islamic identity. But at the same time they are re-structuring that identity in a way that is entirely consistent with ideas of democracy. It’s remarkable to me how many mosques I attended in Egypt where the sheikh would say, “God has given you the right to decide who will rule you, and no one can take that away.” That has to be positive. It’s very different from the years I spent in Kuwait or Saudi Arabia, where all you’re told is basically that you have to obey the ruler if he beats you or oppresses you. It’s a really different discourse, so yeah I’m optimistic.

      I think the real issue is the military and foreign intervention. That’s quite clear. This is not the first constitutional awakening in this part of the world. There have been several in the past, and some quite enlightened ideas, and every time foreign intervention aborts the project. But I think it’s not going to be at all easy, because of the level of education and because of the modern means of exchanging information, which provide multiple sources so that no one relies on state TV. It’s not going to be easy to just control and steer people as happened in the past.

      https://www.loonwatch.com/2012/07/islamic-scholar-khaled-abou-el-fadl-discusses-the-struggle-to-control-egypt/

      It goes without saying that criticism directed against the MB is something that is NECESSARY and should be completely welcome, it does not translate into anti-Muslim hatred, duh! Isn’t that obvious?

      In the past I have commented that I do view the MB’s rise with trepidation, but I agree with Fadl that there are more positive indicators than bad.

    • Sarah Brown

      I hope you don’t mind if I pass on a question from someone which stemmed, indirectly, from Sheila Musaji’s post.

      “Does Loonwatch regard the Muslim Brotherhood as a problematic and theocratic totalitarian organisation?

      Or does it take the view that the Muslim Brotherhood is a benign organisation which is unjustly maligned, and that even specific directed criticism against the party and particular activists is essentially anti-Muslim hatred?”

      Of course different people will probably have different answers.

    • marco

      They talk freedom only for themselves, yet at the same time seek to restrict the freedom of anyone they disagree with.

    • Sir David Illuminati membership number 16.69

      I think you are being really hard on the poor guy . I mean his employers made him work on a national holiday . Its no wonder he turns out such shoddy material. I think we should campaign for better pay for Spencer. Then maybe he could afford some decent clothes , get a real girl friend insted of having to hang around with deranged millionaresses and may be just may be write a book that would be worth reading .

      Sir David Leftwing mooslim Alliance West Anjou Branch

      Note We are still collecting Funds for the Free Sarko Fund , So far we have collected a staggering 0.14€

    • Sarah Brown

      I thought this was a really good post.

    • moosern

      The interesting thing about the Constitution is that there were many Christian pastors that were against it, as it did not create a Christian nation or give Christianity dominion over other faiths. And Mr. Spencer’s religion was outlawed in most of the US before the Constitution.

    • Yes, Robert Spencer is a very sad figure. But let us remember that one of our Founding Fathers, Thomas Jefferson, who also died on the Forth of July, had his very own copy of the Quran.

    • @mindy1

      He’s done this before actually. This not the first fourth of July Spencer has used to spread promote his message. I think the Jihad Watch commentary that Sheila is refuting is an old one that Spencer simply re-posted again this year.

  • mindy1

    Sad that he cannot even celebrate a holiday without hate

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