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“Jewish” Pamela Geller’s “Christian” EDL ally rants about non-Christians being “pagans”

Robert Spencer – Kevin Carroll – Pamela Geller – Stephen Yaxley-Lennon – Stockholm August 2012

Original guest article by Jai

Readers will be aware that Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller’s main British allies are the English Defence League/British Freedom Party leadership. The EDL’s “second-in-command” is Kevin Carroll, who is also the BFP’s co-deputy leader. Along with EDL leader/BFP deputy leader Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (aka “Tommy Robinson”), Kevin Carroll was involved in hosting the anti-Muslim demonstration in Stockholm in August 2012 alongside Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, BFP leader Paul Weston, and European neo-Nazis.

Kevin Carroll at Pamela Geller’s “SION” anti-Muslim conference in New York

Along with Yaxley-Lennon, Kevin Carroll was also one of the main speakers at Geller’s anti-Muslim conference in New York on September 11th 2012, a fact that Geller has enthusiastically publicised on her “Atlas Shrugs” website. Other speakers included David Yerushalmi, who has represented Geller in various lawsuits. Kevin Carroll himself repeatedly made false claims about the current situation in the United Kingdom and continued his long-term behaviour pattern of hijacking Christianity. He previously attended Geller’s demonstration against the so-called “Ground Zero Mosque” in New York in September 2010.

Kevin Carroll’s views on non-Christians

Ironically, in December 2010, Kevin Carroll wrote a number of very revealing comments on Facebook which were posted online on his behalf by Yaxley-Lennon’s PA Hel Gower (multiple screenshots here). In these comments:

1. Kevin Carroll ranted about executing “traitors”, ie. opponents of the EDL.
2. Kevin Carroll continued by ranting about Britain being “a Christian country not a multicultural one”, and he also explicitly described Christianity as “the fundamental culture” of Britain.
3. Kevin Carroll is clearly (mis)using “multicultural” to mean “multireligious” (and similarly, misusing “culture” to mean “religion”).
4. Kevin Carroll ranted about Britain being a Christian country absolutely everywhere.
5. Kevin Carroll explicitly described non-Christians as “pagans”.
6. Kevin Carroll ranted that he will never “bend or bow” to such “pagans”.
7. Apart from confirming the EDL/BFP leadership’s fanatical religious supremacism, Kevin Carroll’s statements also:

a) Confirm their extreme bigotry towards non-Christians in general, not just Muslims, including the various non-Christian groups the EDL/BFP leadership are cynically trying to court as allies against Muslims;

and b) Most revealing of all, Kevin Carroll’s bigoted statements about “pagans” also expose the EDL/BFP leadership’s real attitudes towards their American Jewish allies Pamela Geller, David Yerushalmi, and Robert Spencer’s “boss” David Horowitz.

It is currently unclear whether Geller, Yerushalmi and Horowitz are aware of what their main British allies actually think of them, or whether they are so utterly lacking in self-respect that they are happy to be formally allied with individuals who are on record as explicitly stating how much they despise non-Christians and regard them as “pagans”.

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  • Géji

    JSB, “or why you are so bothered by evidence that Israel is neither completely evil nor completely good.”

    You still not seeing? “Israel”, IS Palestine.

  • Just Stopping By

    @Géji: “JSB, lets drop it! clearly you don’t see Palestine.”

    I’m not sure what you mean. I support a fully independent state of Palestine and an independent state of Israel, the two-state solution. If you mean that I don’t support a one-state solution, that is true mostly because I don’t think that it would be successful but would devolve into a civil war in which people of many religions and ethnicities would die. I have no desire to support a plan that I think would increase the amount of bloodshed all around, though I respect those who think that such a plan would be successful.

    And, with the two-state solution, I do not think that either state should be ethnically pure, but that both should treat their minorities as full citizens with equal rights.

    I understand you may not support my position, but I don’t see why it bothers you so much, or why you are so bothered by evidence that Israel is neither completely evil nor completely good.

  • http://aayjay.wordpress.com AJ

    @Géji,

    I think JSB sees Palestine.

    @JSB,

    If you are a certain poster with their first name beginning with S, I am positive you see Palestine.

    In any case, there is God and there will be justice, insh’Allah!

  • Géji

    JSB, lets drop it! clearly you don’t see Palestine. And I certainly never saw a “Jewish State” in Palestine.

  • Just Stopping By

    @Zakariya Ali Sher: “Also, has Pipes not gone on record claiming that there is ‘no such thing’ as moderate Islam or some such? I might be getting him confused with other Islamophobes.” Close. Here’s what he said at one point: “Moderate Muslims do exist. But, of course, they constitute a very small movement when compared to the Islamist onslaught.” http://www.danielpipes.org/4426/bolstering-moderate-muslims

    @Géji: I brought Danios’ statement into this because I wanted to show that some of Pipes’ statements are pretty much the same as those of people you may admire. However, as I said above, Pipes also makes outlandish statements that essentially say that no Muslim is to be trusted in the US government, and Danios has absolutely never (to my knowledge) made any type of analogous statement. The question I originally addressed dealt with how Pipes can maintain some degree of connection with the mainstream Jewish community, and the answer is that he has a lot of reasonable-sounding material that he can use to claim that he is moderate; only when people investigate him do they find the bigoted material.

    “tell me, what are the difference & similarities of between current regimes leading the ‘Jewish state’ vs that of Gaza?” Israel has growing Christian and Muslim minorities. All Jews were expelled or fled from Gaza around 1949 (they of course came back as settlers but left again recently), and the Christian population in Gaza is shrinking dramatically. The charter of Hamas, the elected leadership in Gaza says, “For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave,” while Israel’s Declaration of Independence says, “we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to return to the ways of peace and play their part in the development of the State, with full and equal citizenship and due representation in its bodies and institutions – provisional or permanent.” I certainly won’t say that Israel has fully lived up to those statements in how it treats its citizens (to say nothing of how it treats non-citizens in the West Bank and Gaza), nor would I deny the racism in Israel, but it also has affirmative action programs to increase educational and workforce attainment by what is called “the Arab sector” and has had or still has Arabs in positions such as government minister, ambassador, military general, and Supreme Court justice. Also, it may be the only “Western” country that pays Islamic courts to administer rulings according to shariah. :-)

  • Géji

    “but in the same way that others distinguish between Islam and so-called “Islamism” or “radical Islam.””

    You got it! (I hope). There no such thing as “Islamism” or “radical Islam”. The meaning? ask the inventors of what they meant by.

  • Géji

    This being my last comment on the subject, I’m traveling in just few hours to visit family members, deserved vacation!. JSB, please lets not conflate bringing ‘Danios’ into discussing Daniel Pipes/Zionism/Islam, its seems highly ridiculous. If you have uncomfort about some of Danios statements regarding Zionism or even Judaism, address to him. Bringing Danios into admitted bigot Pipes, seems either perhaps you sees Danios as using the same rethorics about Judaism, or perhaps you see Zionism as reflective of Judaism. But in all honesty though, and please don’t take this the wrong way (cause I like discussing with you), but in currently tendency of viewing lenses trough Islamic/Judaic mannerism, tell me, what are the difference & similarities of between current regimes leading the ‘Jewish state’ vs that of Gaza?

  • Zakariya Ali Sher

    Also, has Pipes not gone on record claiming that there is ‘no such thing’ as moderate Islam or some such? I might be getting him confused with other Islamophobes. They all start to blend together after a while. Pipes is irrefutably racist, but at least he’s more intelligent than Spencer. Then again, that’s really not saying much. There are high school dropouts who are more academically credible than Spencer!

  • Just Stopping By

    @Believing Atheist: I don’t think anyone is defending Pipes. What I am saying is that he makes a lot of statements that sound reasonable on their face, meaning that organizations that do not investigate him may not understand his true beliefs.

    @Géji: I’m not sure I follow your last comment. I agree that Muslims tend to distinguish between Judaism and Zionism, but in the same way that others distinguish between Islam and so-called “Islamism” or “radical Islam.” It’s just that there is a convenient term for the Jewish nationalism that you object to. Once you get beyond the semantics, the thinking of the different groups is in fact remarkably similar.

  • Believing Atheist

    Pipes is a racist. No need to defend him. This entry shows his racism and bigotry:

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Daniel_Pipes

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