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Gate of the Sun: Where Islamophobia meets “Ziojuana”

Gate of the Sun

Israeli border policemen stood near what Palestinians called the new village of Bab Al Shams (Gate of the Sun), on Saturday 11 January 2013. Israeli forces raided and dismantled the encampment early Sunday. (Issam Rimawi / APA images)

by Ilisha

What does the conflict between Israel and Palestine have to do with Islamophobia? The fact that 1.) Foundations based in the United States are major backers of the Islamophobia Movement at home while at the same time being huge supporters of Israeli Settlements. 2.) The Islamophobia Movement consistently demonizes, in stark “Good” vs. “Evil” terms, Islam/Muslims and Palestinians in the name of Pro-Israel advocacy. 3.) The promotion of the “Clash of Civilizations” theme that pits the “Judeo-Christian” world against “Islam.”

Israeli governments have exploited the theme of “civilizational conflict” ever since the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the US more than a decade ago. In the immediate aftermath of the horrific terrorist attacks on America in 2001, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was asked what it would mean to relations between the US and Israel, he was surprisingly candid:

It’s very good.

Then, apparently realizing that would probably not be well received, he edited his remark:

“Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy.” He predicted that the attack would ”strengthen the bond between our two peoples, because we’ve experienced terror over so many decades, but the United States has now experienced a massive hemorrhaging of terror.”

In case anyone doubted his sincerity, he repeated similar sentiments during a conference in 2008 at Bar-Ilan University on the division of Jerusalem as part of a peace deal with the Palestinians:

“We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq,” Ma’ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events “swung American public opinion in our favor.”

Want to drum beat support for a reckeless and dangerous war against Iran?

Invoke the “Mad Mullah with Nukes” theme.

Want to steal more Palestinian land, while pretending to be engaged in a peace process? Blame the lack of progress on bloodthirsty Islamocrazies hellbent on throwing Jews into the sea.

And it works.

How else can Israel appear to be the victim of the “Islamocrazy Palestinians?”

It is, after all, Israel that is occupying Palestinian land, not the other way around. It is Israel that is building illegal settlements on stolen Palestinian land, complete with “Jews only” bypass roads. Yet we are told it is the Palestinians who are somehow holding Israelis captive, and that’s why it’s impossible to make peace.

Some Palestinians have decided they too can play the “settlement” game. They set up a makeshift “settlement” called “Gate of the Sun” on private Palestinian land that Israel plans to expropriate for an illegal Jewish settlement that will effectively cut the West Bank in two. (We must ask who exactly are the Jewish settlers? Usually, they are extreme, right-wing religious fanatics, accommodated by the Israeli state, who have also been known to participate in price-tag attacks on West Bank villages, mosques and churches.)

Unlike Israeli settlers in the West Bank, Palestinians set up their “settlement” on Palestinian land. In response, occupation authorities evicted the “settlers” within days.

Violating court order, Israeli occupiers forcibly remove Bab Al Shams village from Palestinian land

Demonstrating once again the illusory nature of the rule of law in Israel when it comes to the rights of Palestinians, Israeli occupation forces on Sunday morning violently expelled dozens of Palestinians who had on Friday established a village they called Bab Al Shams [Gate of the Sun] on privately-owned Palestinian that has been seized for Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank…

Read the rest here

Are we really expected to believe a great civilizational struggle between the West and Islam is forcing Israel to gobble up what’s left of Palestine?

As long as the Israeli regime and supporters in the US exploit the “bloodthirsty crazed Muslims are the problem” theme to obscure real issues, we have an obligation to expose them. In the case of the Gate of the Sun “settlement,” the real issues are discrimination, lawlessness, double standards, blatant land theft and a relentless effort to put the final nail in the coffin of the two-state solution.

*********************

In the meantime, Israel is busy recruiting the next generation of Jewish settlers with a “Birthright” rally in Jerusalem, inspiring glaze-eyed fervor reminiscent in some ways of the 2006 American documentary film Jesus Camp. You will also see that Sheldon Adelson makes a cameo in the video. Adelson is a big backer of ‘Birthright,’ while also being a major funder of Islamophobia, he has made his views on Islam and Muslims clear in the past.:

‘Birthright’ ecstasy in Jerusalem — Ziojuana, no occupation, lotta Jewish babies | Mondoweiss

 

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  • Chameleon_X

    This is also a waste of my time, but when you have the gall to accuse me of making the exact argument I am passionately arguing against (conflating Judaism and racist ideologies like Zionism), I cannot let that stand.

    “The fact is you don’t make “rational sense,” you’re still going on about how the overwhelming majority of Jews are racists for believing in matrilineal descent.”

    The rational sense of my argument is that there is no rational basis for the matrilineal DNA argument in the Bible, as I proved when the Deuteronomy quote was brought up by Ilisha in support of this racist argument. The Bible makes it clear that it is not about matrilineal DNA at all. It is about the influence of the mother in raising the child as a Jew. As I stated very clearly, I have no opposition to the default assumption that a child can be considered a Jew when he or she is raised as a Jew. This is a universal assumption across all religions. My opposition is to the racist belief in an irrational “birthright”, which implies a right by birth alone, i.e., DNA.

    If you truly believe that my argument has no “rational sense”, then why don’t you organize a campaign against Rabbi Morris Kertzer’s very rational, unequivocal and non-complicated definition of “What is a Jew?”. My view is the same as his, notwithstanding my obviously tongue-in-cheek ridiculing of him as a “loon”. Just as a reminder, here is how he characterized the matrilineal descent in a very non-racist way, as any sixth grader reading the Bible would also conclude is the view of Judaism (my emphasis in caps):

    “In a sense, ALL JEWS ARE JEWS BY CHOICE TODAY, since even born Jews now have to make the conscious decision that they will remain Jewish, rather than join another religion or become nothing in particular. THE ETHNIC DEFINITION IS GOING THE WAY OF THE DINOSAUR.”

    “An important part of any VALID definition is what a Jew is not. TO BEGIN WITH, THE JEWS ARE NOT A RACE.”

    And while you are at it, you should also campaign against the hundreds of Jews who gave this book overwhelming praise. Your argument is with Jews, not with me, contrary to your brazen argument that you speak on behalf of the majority of Jews.

    “You argued that who is a Jew is “uncomplicated,” that they are Jews if they follow Judaism, to do so you cited Rabbi Kertzer. I showed how you understood him wrong, and supported the fact that “who is a Jew” is in fact “complicated” a fact that a REAL LIFE JEW, Just Stopping By affirmed in the previous debate you lost.

    Rabbi Kertzer unequivocally claimed that the racial definition of a Jew is NOT VALID and that the only criterion all Jews have in common is a deep affiliation with Judaism, which is exactly my point. Sorry, but making a bald claim to the contrary does not win an argument.

    As for the debate with JSB, he unequivocally lost that debate because he could not provide even one single criterion or set of criteria to define a Jew that was not provably irrational. He tried, but I proved each one of his criteria to be completely bogus, after which he ran away with his tail between his legs. You continue to argue that the definition is complicated, contrary to the uncomplicated definition of Rabbi Kertzer, but you too cannot come up with a single rational criterion that defines a Jew other than some multi-faceted direct affiliation with Judaism. This is the same criterion in defining a Muslim or a Christian. There are many facets to religious identity, of course, but there is one commonality among every facet: affiliation to a single religion. Rabbi Kertzer sums up all these facets of being a Jew in exactly the same consistent way as I do: “Judaism is this people’s way of life.”

    Halakhic Judaism, by contrast, asserts that race overrides affiliation to Judaism, which is a racist view of Judaism that the Bible rejects. It is this view of Judaism that is predominant in the racist political policies of Israel, which is why it is relevant and not just some ridiculous argument for “theological purity”, as if I actually care how “pure” Jews are in their private practice of Judaism.

    “Falsities about Taqiyya, dhimmitude, Jihad, apostasy etc. have all been taken on by writers here for instance, marking our responses to Islamophobia as comprehensive from a summative standpoint. Our most recent article in fact takes down the myth that the Quran says “Jews are apes and pigs.”

    I have been reading LoonWatch for years, and most of these articles were from the Danios days, as I already asserted. The mission of LoonWatch has noticeably changed since then to something much more superficial and almost deliberately non-confrontational, even when confrontation is absolutely warranted and, in my opinion, obligatory. I did notice the “apes and pigs” article, which was a wonderful exception to the general rule of not defending Islam based on Islamic doctrine. My point was not that such articles don’t exist. My point was that defending Islam based on what Islam actually says is clearly “priority #3″ for LoonWatch, as I stated. I also asserted that it is not part of the current mission of LoonWatch, as Ilisha stated in a very recent comment to SarahAB within the past two weeks (I am not going to bother finding the exact quote unless you insist she did not say it).

    “Now you are making a whole new claim stating that we say Zionism is “complicated.” See how you just conflated the conversation on “Who is a Jew” with Zionism?”

    “Conflated the conversation”? What the hell does that mean? You are making the Orwellian argument that having a conversation about how two ideologies should NEVER be conflated is somehow equivalent to conflating those two ideologies? Are you serious? You still don’t get it, do you? It is the Zionists who are conflating racist beliefs with Judaism. It is the Zionists who are leeching off of the noble religion of Judaism by making irrational claims of entitlement to land based on racial interpretations of the Bible with no relevant scriptural facts. It is only when you debunk these irrational claims (i.e. by calling out irrational interpretations of “What is a Jew?” that Zionists leverage in hijacking Judaism) that you can forcibly debunk the conflation of Zionism (as politicized racism) with Judaism.

    “Conflate” literally means “to join or merge two or more things into a unified whole”. How the hell am I trying to unify Zionism and Judaism into a unified whole? I am passionately arguing that such a conflation is utter nonsense, irrational, and completely rejected by the scripture of Judaism. It is Zionists who are conflating the two. When you refuse to condemn race-based political interpretations of Judaism and “What is a Jew?” as totally antithetical and repugnant to Judaism, it is only you and Zionists who are supporting the conflation of the two, not me. Now if your argument is that Zionists are not conflating Judaism and Zionism based on racial interpretations of the Bible, I would be more than happy to disillusion you of this fantasy.

    “It [Zionism] is a social-political ideology that in its most basic definition calls for the self-determination of Jews”

    White supremacists would also argue that their ideology’s “most basic definition calls for the[ir] self-determination”. “Self-determination” for a single race in an entire nation designated only for a single race does not make such “self-determination” democratic. That kind of “self-determination” is barefaced racism. You are implying that Zionism has a sacred democratic side to it, so it is not all that bad, which means it cannot be categorically condemned. Got it.

    “One can be a Jew and be anti-Zionist.”

    My point exactly. Jews are not the problem, and Judaism is not the problem. Politically motivated racism is, and that racism finds its ideological roots within Zionism.

    “As for your demand for a categorical condemnation of Zionism, that’s quite different actually than what we were originally discussing, root causes of Islamophobia or IP. I would be happy to say Zionism is the root cause of the latter, whereas the root cause of Islamophobia is not necessarily Zionism.”

    As for Zionism being the only root cause motivating Islamophobia, I did not make this claim. However, I did say that politically motivated racism (as a more generic cause than Zionist racism in particular) was the predominant root cause by far.

    Now we get to the shocking part. As you finally admit, Zionism is the root cause of atrocities by Jews against Palestinians. However, according to you, that doesn’t mean you can categorically condemn Zionism. So how many atrocities will it take for you to condemn this root cause? When will it be enough racism to deserve your condemnation?

  • GaribaldiOfLoonwatch

    This is a waste of my time and will be my last comment on the subject.

    I didn’t bring up the short time that you’ve been on this site as some sort of discussion of “who you are” but to point out you are unaware of the bulk of what we have written and done on the subject of Islamophobia–as is evident to me from your comments.

    The fact is you don’t make “rational sense,” you’re still going on about how the overwhelming majority of Jews are racists for believing in matrilineal descent.

    Again, we also have another instance of you conflating Judaism and Zionism.

    You argued that who is a Jew is “uncomplicated,” that they are Jews if they follow Judaism, to do so you cited Rabbi Kertzer. I showed how you understood him wrong, and supported the fact that “who is a Jew” is in fact “complicated” a fact that a REAL LIFE JEW, Just Stopping By affirmed in the previous debate you lost.

    Now you are making a whole new claim stating that we say Zionism is “complicated.” See how you just conflated the conversation on “Who is a Jew” with Zionism?

    Zionism is not a race, ethnicity or a religion. One can be a Jew and be anti-Zionist. It is a social-political ideology that in its most basic definition calls for the self-determination of Jews, and yes it was influenced by the nationalisms of Europe where it was birthed. One of the many problems with Zionism comes from the fact that its leaders believed Jewish self-determination could come to fruition by denying and infringing on the self-determination and rights of another people.

    As for your demand for a categorical condemnation of Zionism, that’s quite different actually than what we were originally discussing, root causes of Islamophobia or IP. I would be happy to say Zionism is the root cause of the latter, whereas the root cause of Islamophobia is not necessarily Zionism, Zionists are however disproportionately represented in the Islamophobia Movement through funding and activism more than any other group.

    Falsities about Taqiyya, dhimmitude, Jihad, apostasy etc. have all been taken on by writers here for instance, marking our responses to Islamophobia as comprehensive from a summative standpoint. Our most recent article in fact takes down the myth that the Quran says “Jews are apes and pigs.”

    I am glad you have found better uses of your time, and hope that you actually do get your site off the ground, contributing to fighting and exposing Islamophobia.

    Your disappointment in my opinion is misplaced but on that we’ll have to agree to disagree.

  • http://www.loonwatch.com/ Ilisha

    Nur Alia,

    I didn’t mean this literally. I meant it more like when someone says, “from here to Timbuktu,” to mean a long distance, and not literally all the way to Timbuktu in Mali. Mongolia is sparsely populated, so it came to mind.

    I didn’t mean to offend anyone, as I said in another comment.

    I do find Asia, the people and the history, quite interesting, and especially the regions around Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, and China. I remember reading about some people (perhaps in northern Afghanistan?) who insisted they were descended from Geghis Khan, and though many people were skeptical, modern science seems to support their claim. I found that fascinating:

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.UPwQjifSGSo

    In any case, I wouldn’t suggest anyone should literally take over parts of Mongolia, or any other country for that matter. I was just illustrating a point.

  • Nur Alia binti Ahmad

    “… If Zionists had chosen to established their state on empty land in some far off corner of Outer Mongolia, who would’ve objected?…”
    This is the land where most of my legacy comes from. I, and the people I come from are the Hui people, and we live in Northern China and Mongolia.
    Although we dont have big cities, or as an ethnic group dont have a nation, if the Zionists were to have chosen to inhabit our part of the world, we would have been like the Palistnians are now.
    Lets understand that the reason the Zionists got so intrenched in the Palistinian land is because it was ignored due to the isolation of the people from each other. We must also remember that the Bedouins, the nomatic people of that area…for the same reason are also being affected by the Zionist regime occupation.
    We would have the same problem…thier claim of an ‘ancestrial right’ to have some dirt they can call thier own at the expence of our culture and people.

  • Nur Alia binti Ahmad

    Ary…
    Lets make something clear about the way people express themselves on my side of the world.
    When we say Jew, or Judism, we are talking about people who concider themselves Jews and practice the faith of Judism.
    When we say Israel, we are talking about the political entity (nation state) with that name. We may critisize the policies of the state, but we are not talking about Jews.
    When we say Israeli nationalism, we are talking about the Israeli citizen’s pride in his nation, her love for her nation and it’s accomplishments…just like everyone else who loves thier homeland, and supports it…no matter where they live.
    When we say Zionism, or Zionist, it is NOT the same as nationalism, or partiotsim. To us, Zionism is a political ideology, and a Zionist is one who supports it.
    So, I did not mention Jews, Judism, or thier Holy book. What I posted has nothing to do with the Tor’ah, or religion, except to mention that the reason Christian Zionists are so gung ho about the political entity, is that thier ‘God’s Word’…through slaughter and genocide…God gave them the land.

  • http://jabhawiyya.tumblr.com/ jabhawiya

    Ziojuana? LOL. More like Zio-Bath-Salts.

  • http://jabhawiyya.tumblr.com/ jabhawiya

    Absolutely disgusting. Zionism is evil incarnate and direly needs to be snuffed out. Palestine is my land. It’s my family’s land. Not some overly made up skank from New Jersey’s. Those two girls who laughed at the thought of beating up Palestinians, I really hope they get a rocket in the face.

    I don’t care who I offended by saying that. Palestinians are human beings with feelings and souls, not playthings or punching bags. Zionists are devoid of souls, evil, hollow creatures whose only reason for existence is perpetual torment.

  • Chameleon_X

    “You’re a relative new comer from what I can gather…”

    Your comments on who I am are an irrelevant diversion.

    “Zionism is not “sacred,” and no one has even implied that on Loonwatch EVER. It seems unfortunately you get hung up on JUDAISM rather than criticize or dissect the political-social ideology of Zionism, which makes me curious why you conflate and confuse the two. It’s quite laughable actually for you to claim that “Zionism” is held as sacred on THIS site.”

    Help me to start laughing with you, rather than at you, by pointing out where in the past you have categorically condemned Zionism rather than calling it something politically correct like “complicated”.

    If you had actually read my posts carefully, you would have understood very clearly how passionately and unequivocally I am arguing AGAINST the conflation of Judaism and Zionism. Shall I embarrass you with some of my quotes while I await your quotes condemning Zionism? I said “Zionism has no place whatsoever within Judaism”. I said “Zionism is anti-Judaism and anti-Jewish”. Do you even know what the word “conflate” means? Shall I continue embarrassing you some more with yet more proof that I am passionately and persuasively arguing that these two concepts should NEVER be conflated? It is only you who has never condemned Zionism in this way like I have. It is only you and Ilisha and JSB who refuse to acknowledge that Zionism is founded upon an irrational racist ideology and has no place being conflated with Judaism whatsoever. If you disagree that you have never so acknowledged the racist foundations of Zionism, then where is your condemnation of Zionism now? And where is your proof that you are not conflating Zionism and Judaism? Where is your argument, like mine, that Judaism utterly rejects Zionist racism? Just say it if this is what you believe. Or does it make you uncomfortable to do so, contrary to the claim that it doesn’t?

    “You are making assumptions as is clear through your qualified claim that Loonwatch doesn’t want to “dig into uncomfortable root causes.” We consistently discuss root causes.”

    I have seen little discussion or formal rebuttals of root causes since Danios went AWOL, except by some posts after the actual article. I am beginning to wonder if Danios is even still alive or doing anything along the lines of what he originally did in founding this site. It just does not make logical sense that he would not pop his head up even once every month or so.

    Loonwatch focuses on the lampooning of loons and (secondarily) on countering what would more appropriately be called “Muslimophobia” (i.e., the irrational fear of Muslims). There is little countering of ISLAMophobia (in the more restricted sense of an irrational fear of Islam separate from Muslims) except in the posts of others after the articles. If you are truly interested in combating Islamophobia, then priority #1 should be countering the lies against Islam and exposing the repugnant ideologies motivating those lies as the root cause (and motivation) behind Islamophobia. Priority #2 would be countering the irrational fear of Muslims as the symptom of that true root cause. And then priority #3 would be lampooning the loons as we all “watch” them make irrational fools of themselves. I have no logical objection with priority #3 being Loonwatch’s overriding mission. I am just explaining why it has limited value to me and why I am so disappointed in this limited mission, since my mission — my Jihad — is to fight the root cause of Islamophobia. The rest is just entertainment.

    “I will just reiterate that none of the Loonwatch contributors, not me, Ilisha, Danios, Emperor, Gefilte or Mooneye agree with you on that particular topic.”

    It is funny that I have not heard from anyone but you and Ilisha on this topic if this is true. It is also funny that I am still waiting on just ONE root cause rebuttal analysis for the IP conflict from all of you that makes rational sense, pinball catalyst theories notwithstanding. Also, the fact that you and Ilisha still think my mission is to enforce “ideological purity” on Judaism, or to condemn mere beliefs as racist, screams just how much you are totally missing my point. I could care less about racist beliefs that someone privately holds. I only care about politicized racism that persecutes, oppresses and kills, as is the case in Israel and the occupied territories. It is this type of racism that is our obligation to expose if we truly care about what is happening over there.

    When we don’t open our eyes to see that racism being actively prosecuted TODAY (not just 2/3 of a century ago), we politely call the conflict a “land dispute” so that we are politically correct in not condemning what deserves full condemnation as the true root cause of the conflict. A “dispute” implies both sides have some legal entitlement or justified claim to the land. It is no mere “land dispute” when homes are being razed illegally according to clear international law and only one group of people is being forced from the land by another group of people. This is called “land theft” and “ethnic cleansing”. “Land dispute” is nothing but an obnoxious euphemism.

    “to disagree without taking it personally”

    I don’t take it personally. I am just deeply disappointed and have come to realize that there are better uses of my time for the reasons already stated.

  • Chameleon_X

    “we go round and round, wasting time and energy on nonsensical arguments over “anti-Zionist Zionists.”

    You can blame that waste of time on JSB. I never brought up this absurd diversion to begin with. In fact, I ridiculed it.

    “My complaint is that Israel was established in Palestine, at the expense of the Palestinian people. If Zionists had chosen to established their state on empty land in some far off corner of Outer Mongolia, who would’ve objected?”

    You have still not identified a single root cause for the ongoing conflict in IP. So what you are saying is that nobody’s actions since the founding of Israel have caused any atrocities. What we are witnessing today is just a pinball consequence of actions taken over 2/3 of a century ago. The racist Law of Return being actively implemented today is either a figment of our imagination or simply not the responsibility of Jews today to change because they are merely held hostage to a racist decision made 2/3 of a century ago. The rapturous recruiting of ONLY Jewish youths by the hundreds of thousands to move to Israel now (with guided tours of “cool settlements” contrary to international law) is just a figment of our imagination too or not at all related to racist decisions being made today. The razing of Palestinian homes and the ethnic cleansing of them from the land that is going on today is just a pinball consequence of a decision made 2/3 of a century ago. Got it.

    And even if you somehow agree that racist decisions and actions are being implemented today, you cannot or will not come up with a single root cause for that racism. It is just a “land dispute” to you as a consequence of actions 2/3 of a century ago. Your analysis is beyond superficial. It is nonexistent, and that is why this conversation is a waste of time.

    You keep talking about your “pro-democracy” efforts as if you have some sort of mysterious solution you are pushing. But you have not offered a single solution or campaign to help. If everything is due to what happened 2/3 of a century ago, then the only logical, but absurd, “pro-democracy” solution would be to work on a time machine to prevent that event from happening, since all further actions are merely a pinball consequence of that event. The reality, of course, is that this event was merely the catalyst for the conflict, and this catalyst itself was the result of European racism against Jews. European racism was merely exported into someone else’s back yard, thereby becoming manifest as politicized racism by Jews against Palestinians. What happened decades ago does not explain the oppressive motivation and continuation of that racism to this day. Only racism conjoined with a politicized ideology explains it.

    The rest of your post is just irrelevant ad hominem.

  • http://www.loonwatch.com/ Ilisha

    Yes, that’s what I meant. I’m not endorsing the takeover of empty land in Outer Mongolia, unless it was legally purchased from the rightful owner.

    I apologize to any Outer Mongolian visitors who may have offended by my imprecise language. :)

  • GaribaldiOfLoonwatch

    If Zionists had chosen to established their state on empty land in some far off corner of Outer Mongolia, who would’ve objected?

    I wouldn’t agree with it if it meant forced takeover of property that was already owned, thereby forcing the original owners out. I think by empty land you also mean land that is legally owned and recognized.

  • GaribaldiOfLoonwatch

    Chameleon, I have been documenting, exposing, rebutting and yes poking fun at Islamophobia for longer than you’ve been on this site. You’re a relative new comer from what I can gather, granted I don’t know what you were doing before you started commenting here. I consider you to be a thoughtful and good commenter generally, you made excellent points on the thread regarding atheism and apostates but you’ve lost the plot in several other debates, especially with your imposed definition of what a Jew is, etc.

    Zionism is not “sacred,” and no one has even implied that on Loonwatch EVER. It seems unfortunately you get hung up on JUDAISM rather than criticize or dissect the political-social ideology of Zionism, which makes me curious why you conflate and confuse the two. It’s quite laughable actually for you to claim that “Zionism” is held as sacred on THIS site.

    You are making assumptions as is clear through your qualified claim that Loonwatch doesn’t want to “dig into uncomfortable root causes.” I have already written as well as discussed the cross-section between Zionism and Islamophobia in a previous article, and plan to do a series on the connection between Zionism and Islamophobia as well as the “New antisemitism” as I discussed in several previous threads, quite apart from any discussions you were involved in.

    I understand you are creating your own website and I think that is excellent and you can blog over there about your view on how Jews who believe in matrilineal (or patrilineal in the case of Karaites) are racists. Put your ideas out into the world, that way your idea will be interacted with and be challenged and you can evaluate it’s true worth beyond the comments section debates here on Loonwatch. I will just reiterate that none of the Loonwatch contributors, not me, Ilisha, Danios, Emperor, Gefilte or Mooneye agree with you on that particular topic.

    Lastly, it’s up to you to decide how best to use your time on Loonwatch. I hope you continue to comment and add your perspective and when we disagree, agree to disagree without taking it personally.

  • http://www.loonwatch.com/ Ilisha

    loon watch is the islam watch website… why bother posting with them.

    Huh? A bit muddled, but still an excellent point for you to consider: You should not bother posting here.

    Why don’t you run along then?

  • http://www.loonwatch.com/ Ilisha

    My complaint is the Israel was established in Palestine, at the expense of the Palestinian people. If Zionists had chosen to established their state on empty land in some far off corner of Outer Mongolia, who would’ve objected?

    But even if you say the core issue is Zionism and I say it’s the land, so what? Should we waste time arguing over how to pronounce “tomato” too?

    You insist on absolute ideological purity, and if you don’t get it, you become caustic and condescending. I’m not a bobblehead doll, who will simply nod in agreement with everything you say.

    We’ve agreed in the past that we share the same goals, and yet, we go round and round, wasting time and energy on nonsensical arguments over “anti-Zionist Zionists.”

    It seems you’re either with Chameleon or you’re with Benjamin Netanyahu, getting stoned on Ziojuana.

    It’s almost comical for you to suggest we’re fawning apologists, especially when directing your statements at me.

    Perhaps instead of wasting your time too discussing root causes with me, you should contact Taglit-Birthright to see if you can give a seminar to these impressionable Jewish kids between their raptures of ideological ecstasy about how important it is to respect land rights of non-Jews…

    So if we aren’t in lockstep agreement with you, we’re on the verge of sponsoring “Birthrate” rallies? Your comment is obnoxious and ridiculous, though I do agree with you on one point: Discussing these issues with you is a waste of time.

    As I said before, good luck.

    Thanks for your sincere well wishes, and the same to you.

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