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Right-wing rabbi’s ruling: Israel may totally destroy Gaza if necessary

Dov_Lior

Right-wing rabbi’s ruling: Israel may totally destroy Gaza if necessary

(Haaretz)

Dov Lior, the rabbi of the settlement of Kiryat Arba, has issued a religious ruling permitting the total destruction of Gaza if Israel’s military leaders deem it necessary.

Lior is considered one of the more extreme rabbis on the religious right. In his ruling, he wrote that the Torah also teaches Jews how to act during wartime. In any war in which the people are under attack they are permitted to fight back against the nation from which the attackers come, he wrote.

“Therefore, in a time of war, the attacked nation is permitted to punish the enemy population with whatever measures it deems proper, like blocking supplies or electricity. It may bomb the entire area based on the judgment of the war minister and not wantonly put soldiers at risk,” Lior wrote, adding that “deterrent measures to exterminate the enemy” were allowed.

“The defense minister may even order the destruction of Gaza so that the south should no longer suffer, and to prevent harm to members of our people who have long been suffering from the enemies surrounding us,” he wrote.

After the ruling was published, the head of a left-wing party, Meretz’s Zahava Gal-On, asked Attorney General Yehuda Weinstein to launch an investigation.

“Rabbi Dov Lior’s racist comments long ago lost the protection of the right to free expression,” Gal-On wrote to Weinstein. “These remarks follow his racist comments through the years, among them his many comments before the murder of [Yitzhak] Rabin and support for Baruch Goldstein,” the man who gunned down 29 Muslim worshippers in Hebron in 1994.

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  • Just_Stopping_By

    Okay, we agree to both agree and disagree. We’re making more progress than most rounds of I/P negotiations!

    As for the Golda Meir remark, I said, “It made me wonder if I owe an apology to Golda Meir.” Note that I did not say I agreed with her in full, but rather that I had to wonder. I should probably have been clearer that I was wondering only about activists in their role as activists and not about anyone as a common person, so I’ll apologize for not making clear that I was considering only one portion of those covered by her statement.

    I understand that Ilisha feels that as a moderator, it may be improper for her to recommend any particular charity, and I respect that view. But even excusing her from specific recommendations, if you count the number of recommendations on LW for boycotts or for purchasing products like Max Blumenthal’s Goliath, versus the calls for supporting charities for Palestinians or for purchasing Palestinian products whether generally or recommending specifics, whether by mods or commenters (and taking out the calls by Sarah Brown and me), it is actually rather depressing and completely the opposite of what I see on “the other side.” Of course Golda Meir’s remark is overstated, as are many political statements. Putting aside the overstatement, the kernel of her remarks was one of the “myths” I had learned that I hoped to see disproved in sites like this. I think that in terms of people’s personal lives, it is just false; but in terms of the way much policy and activism work, it seems to me to have more than a kernel of truth.

    Take care as well.

  • Solid Snake

    Yes, I agree.

    [We can continue via email if youd like, as after posting I think it was out of line to bring the discussion here from another website.]

  • Just_Stopping_By

    I think we’ll have to agree to agree on parts and disagree on parts.

  • Tanveer ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Khan

    Yes, I know. But the average person probably doesn’t even know clearly about what’s happening right now, let alone what happened 50 years ago. All they probably see is Hamas firing rockets at Israel and then Israel responding, albeit brutally. But as you have said, Hamas has extremely limited options and as you have also said, this doesn’t mean we condone the attacks. Hamas are between a rock and a hard place

  • Solid Snake

    No, no. I was not denying they were members of Hamas, I was in disagreement with the assertion that this was a plot concocted by the political entity Hamas and by its leaders which is the official line of the Israeli government and the sole reason for the collective punishment of the West Bank. There is a difference, if a lone group of members did this without orders or if the leaders themselves sanctioned this kidnapping. Much like the kidnapping and immolation of Muhammad Abu Kdheir by Israeli citizens, they were a lone group who most likely were followers of the ruling Likud party, it would make no sense to say that the Israeli leadership ordered that kidnapping and murder.

    Well, it really isn’t a murky issue at all. Rounding up of 500+ (surely they all were part of kidnapping plot), demolishing houses, murdering innocents while suppressing information that the teens were already dead are clear violations of all and any form of civilized law.

    You are correct, we will find instances on both sides, and I condemn any instances of Palestinians murdering civilians .But without context it will lead us to a flawed understanding of the conflict.
    You see, it depends on what premise you base your analysis . If you somehow think that a tiny,poorly armed and equipped, besieged political resistance movement like Hamas is somehow equal to Israel a Nuclear-armed modern nation that enjoys the almost unanimous support of Western governments then I can see how you reach the conclusions that you do.

    But if one views reality objectively we find that Hamas is a relatively new creation by Israel that was designed for the sole purpose of rebutting the secular PLO and the moderate strand of Palestinian resistance.

    That Israel has been occupying and terrorizing a population for 60+ years way before Hamas was around.

    That every time a round of peace talks begins Israel immediately begins stealing more land by building settlements. In fact that alone should make any reasonable person conclude that Israel has no interest in peace and as Netanyahu recently stated they will never accept a Palestinian State.

    There is much more to be discussed and I stand with my previous statement, when the factual record is examined both present and past it stands as a stark indictment of Israel.

    I dont say this lightly.

  • Tanveer ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Khan

    Personally, I think that if Hamas gave up the rocket attacks and just focused on soldiers, more people would support them.

  • Just_Stopping_By

    Did you see the clarification by a new statement Friday, after my post on Thursday?: http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/world/meast/mideast-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 (“A Hamas official admitted Friday that militants from his group abducted three Israeli teens in the West Bank in June, but the official said the kidnappers did not tell their leaders about the action. … ‘At that time, the Hamas leadership had no knowledge about this group or the operation it had just carried,’ Aruri said, referring to the abductors. ‘It turned out later, however, that they were members of Hamas.'”) It seems as if Hamas did not know at first that “members of Hamas” acted on their own, explaining why the group’s leadership did not admit to the kidnappings/murders initially. I think that we now have little dispute that it was members of Hamas behind the kidnappings/murders.

    I agree that Netanyahu saw the kidnappings/murders as an opportunity to try to root out Hamas in the West Bank. But, it becomes a murkier issue as to where arresting Hamas members there falls on the spectrum of a political action to a legitimate rounding up of likely suspects in a murder investigation. My guess is that Netanyahu saw the ambiguity and was happy to seize upon it.

    Yes, the violence began before. You can also look up Hamas’ record of murdering Israelis and taking credit for those actions, admitting that they were planned operations aimed at civilians. Sadly, we could go back and forth on such history all day, and I think if we are honest, we will find instances of each side pushing the violence up another notch or more at various points, making it silly to blame just one side or the other.

  • Solid Snake

    Hmm, seems quite fishy.

    The 3 teens are kidnapped, killed immediately, the Israeli government knows that they are dead within the hour, the Israeli government issues a gag order on all media and suppresses the information, Hamas does not claim responsibility Khaled Meshaal even denies knowing anything about the kidnappings, later on Israeli Police said that the investigation turned up that the kidnappers were lone cell, and now this? So I did some looking around and it turns out that it was not an admission at all:

    “All the Israeli papers stated that “Hamas admits to kidnapping three Israeli teens,” based on a recording from a Muslim scholars conference in Turkey. However, almost all of them used the translation given by Channel 2 News, which is not an admission: “There are those who say that it was your brothers in the al-Qassam Brigades, who carried it out for the sake of al-Qassam members who are in jails and who sit in a hunger strike,” al-Arouri was quoted saying. Times of Israel said that this quote was the strongest evidence yet of a Hamas link. [Which if true, means that there is little evidence until now despite Israel’s claims that Hamas was linked. – OH] Hamas has denied involvement in the plot. Haaretz+’s military affairs reporter Gili Cohen used the translation given by an anti-Hamas YouTube channel, which is very different and according to which, Arouri said Hamas’ military wing was responsible.”

    http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=8dc4822ca41e3938eb4a03c73&id=f1fb79d639&e=1458d84675

    The “there are those who say that..” has been cut off from the quote in many articles. the fact that Israeli military affairs reporters have to rely on Anti-Hamas Youtube Videos is telling.

    Plus, even if true that they admit it, it makes no sense whatsoever. Why would they hide it? Its not like Israel would not have done any of this anyway, as it was reported the government knew about their deaths (and their non-decaying bodies were found later) and still went out to “search” for them by conducting a campaign of collective punishment to terrorize a subdued population.

    Also, the violence did not begin with the kidnappings, the Israelis were murdering children frequently before that.

  • El Cid

    So? Is not it a superior attrition slicing strategy? What is wrong with it? The Facebook likes suggest that it is democracy at work…as loved by the American Way. And backed by its formidable clout.

    The Palestinians have long since been written off by the World powers and the democratic way. Democracy and the Capital system is at work here with some help from friends and armadas on the high seas.

    All this is perfect logic if Israel has to fulfill its mandate. US and UK have just airlifted a huge amount of state of the art, newly designed ammo and weapons. US has just exponentially increased its military aid to Israel as Hamas seemed to have been getting the better of the Jews in close combat lately. It is expected this will improve the odds in the Zionists favor. American advisers have also arrived in Israel to install and upgrade these weapon systems.

    Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Kuwait are also helping with fuel, finances and supplies and in suffocating the Palestinians, tightening the noose so to speak.

    As soon as Islamic States insurgency has been crushed under the full load of American might the elimination of the Gaza and West Bank parasites can be accelerated.

  • Just_Stopping_By

    Not that it in any way excuses what I see as the excessive use of force by Israel, and certainly not Hamas’ firing of rockets into civilian areas, but Hamas seems to have admitted to the kidnapping:
    http://www.ibtimes.com/hamas-claims-responsibility-kidnapping-israeli-boys-idf-1664564
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/hamas-admits-kidnapping-3-young-israeli-men-setting-off-gaza-war-1.2742649

    Just to repeat, this, if true, would in no way justify or excuse either deliberate targeting of or reckless endangerment of civilians on either side. We have around 2,000 dead, mostly civilians, and many just young children, and that is a terrible tragedy no matter what the sequence of events that led up to that was.

  • Awesome

    Except there is nothing in the Qur’an or the ahadith that is prescriptive about exterminating Jews, nor do Muslims routinely call for it. Regurgitating Zionist propaganda against Islam and Muslims proves nothing besides ignorance.

    In addition, a Rabbi saying that the IOF can basically destroy all of Gaza if they feel like it, can only be regarded as “hatred” for the people living in Gaza. I’m not sure how you managed to construe that as him just saying to “kill those who routinely kill you”, but nothing you are saying makes much sense anyways.

  • Awesome

    Palestinians have a right to vote for whoever they want to, and it is the responsibility of everyone else to try and work with those elected rather than against them. Israel rejects Hamas, and chooses to punish the Palestinians collectively over it. However, collective punishment is a war crime, and those who engage in it are war criminals. Israel engages in collective punishment as if it were a standard policy of theirs and that makes them war criminals.

    It’s also hard to care much about rockets and mortars when they literally manage to do almost zero damage. Israel also doesn’t seem to care much about them either, otherwise they would have brought an end to them a long time ago.

  • julietsm

    I really didn’t think you would post my comments. No big surprise there.

  • Awesome

    In that case, maybe they are hiding in the Israeli Knesset too, so perhaps the IOF should do to the Israeli Knesset what they did to the rest of their targets.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    I can only say to my Palestinian brothers and sisters (as well as to my Bosniak brothers and sisters) that despite all horrible things being done to them:
    Defend your freedom with all your might. But don’t give in to the temptation of becoming genocidals yourselves if Allah swt should by His grace give you the upper hand.
    Of course this is for most a hypothetic question now. Nevertheless, the notion of pushing the Jews into the sea (or the Bosnian Croats, or leaving just a handful of Serbs or none at all in Bosnia) is not right and not realistic. Neither is the idea of having them as second-class citizens. But I believe most people here as well as there, would not stand for it anyway.
    For the sake of those whom John J. Mearsheimer calls the Righteous Jews (and for those non-Muslim Bosnians who love and cherish Bosnia-Herezegovina): A negotiated settlement which allows people to live in mutual respect is possible. It just needs the will of those involved.
    It is written that God created Man into all those different peoples and nations so that they may learn to respect each other.
    Too bad I don’t see the will on either side, but too much genocidal intent.
    As it is, I believe only the victims of genocide will see Heaven. All others will go the other way.
    And if somebody says that Muslims committed genocide that’s just an anti-Muslim propaganda lie. Even the Armenian Genocide was committed by ultranationalists, not by believing Muslims.

  • Sam Seed

    Oh good as when I last checked it was 56% Yes. I ve been WhatsApp’ing my friends too.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    They do. Nevertheless you’d be surprised how many of us are actually white. For those of us who are it’s actually worse for the islamophobes see them as “traitors” or “renegades.”

  • Friend of Bosnia

    Rather, disgusting islamophobic war propaganda lies.

    The serbo fascists had a similar one, I saw it in one bit of evening news around 1992. It was an interview with one of their bigwigs, Momcilo Krajisnik I think (or was it Karadzic himself? A bit difficult to remember after 22 years): anyway, on the wall behind him was a poster. Depicted on that poster was a bearded figure, supposedly a “jihadi”, pouring a can of green paint over a globe, and the caption read “This is not a paint commercial.”

    This piece of garbage is as genocidal as th eone I just described.

    Well, what a surprise. The Israeli right got cozy with Karadzic back then. Lieberman and Milorad Dodik are buddies too. Of course. As if the ones could teach the others a little bit more about wasting Muslims. As the saying goes, “Birds of a feather flock together.”

  • Friend of Bosnia

    Like they did in the Western Balkans too.
    And it saddens me to no end that I will not see the end of it either. Or that it might lead to a bad end, with the Bosniak people first being ghettoized and then exterminated. Like the Spanish Muslims once were.

    You have said it right, and if there are Muslims who need to rally behind Turkey, or rathet that Turkey gives them their unreserved support, it’s the Balkan Muslims.

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