Robert Spencer

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Pamela Geller

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Bat Ye'or

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Brigitte Gabriel

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Daniel Pipes

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Debbie Schlussel

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Walid Shoebat

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Joe Kaufman

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Wafa Sultan

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Geert Wilders

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The Nuclear Card

A Lavish Feast: Hatemongers, Hypocrites, and the Hate Du Jour

Posted on 30 January 2012 by Ilisha

Bart Simpson

In a daring display of “investigative journalism,” Loonwatch was recently “outed” as a site, “pretty much exclusively concerned with exposing the perceived enemies of Islam…” This jealously guarded secret was previously known only to tech-savvy visitors clever enough to click the link to our About page:

Loonwatch.com is a blogzine run by a motley group of hate-allergic bloggers to monitor and expose the web’s plethora of anti-Muslim loons, wackos, and conspiracy theorists…..

Isn’t that a fancy way of saying pretty much the same thing?

Throughout the screed ”exposing” our “super secret mission,” there are numerous ludicrous and fact-less assertions, which have been refuted here and here. A garden variety bigot isn’t of much interest to us here, but amid the baseless accusations, fuzzy logic, and shameless self-promotion, there is a question that warrants a response:

Does Loonwatch really shun all criticism of Islam and immediately silence our critics by branding them as loons?

Similar accusations have been made repeatedly, against Loonwatch and other sites devoted to fighting Islamophobia. The short and simple answer is “no.” As American Muslim civil rights activist Ahmed Rehab has said:

One thing we must never allow is for the bad amongst us – terrorists, extremists, ideologues of exclusion and hate – to succeed in turning the rest of us against each other. We must condemn them, ostracize them, and disempower them. The way to do that is to strengthen our relations, and stand with one another. That is the only way to spell defeat for the agents of hate.

We must emerge from our comfort zones and stand together as one against all forms of violence, ignorance, and intolerance….

Islam should be subjected to its fair share of constructive criticism and we have said as much in a significant number of articles. In fact several of our writers have severely criticized the theological premises of certain violent and regressive trends within the worldwide Muslim community. The problem is that there’s nothing fair or constructive about the ocean of half truths and outright lies that are routinely spread about Islam and Muslims by a well-funded network of pseudo scholars, grassroots activists, media amplifiers, serial fabricators, and other assorted anti-Muslim crackpots.

Legitimate criticism is truthful, proportionate, and in accordance with fair standards.

One of our most popular recent articles, Fake Nigerian Christians Burnt Alive Photo Resurfaces on Facebook, exposes anti-Muslim bigot and serial fabricator Pamela Geller trying to pass off a photo from a tragic accident as an incident of Muslims burning Christians alive.

Legitimate criticism is truthful. 

There is a constant barrage of  propaganda that says “Islamic terrorism” is the world’s greatest threat. Hate sites far and wide trumpet brash and baseless claims, which we routinely expose as lies: 17,000 “Islamic terrorist” Attacks Exist in Fevered Islamophobic Brains.

Yet meticulously documented statistics on the website Unknown News put the figures in proper context:

About 303 times as many people have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq than in the ghastly attacks of September 11, 2001.

More than 130 times as many people have been killed in these wars and occupations than in all terrorist attacks in the world from 1993-2004, according to data compiled by the US State Department.

Every life is sacred and precious, and reducing individuals to statistics is a grisly calculus. However, we must make the point that war consistently kills far more innocent civilians than terrorism. What justifies the myopic focus on the latter?

Legitimate criticism is proportionate.

Another favorite trick of anti-Muslim bigots is to cherry pick violent and intolerant passages from Islamic scripture and juxtapose them next to relatively peaceful passages from Jewish or Christian scripture. Loonwatch has a whole series of articles addressing this inconsistency: The Understanding Jihad Series: Is Islam More Likely Than Other Religions to Encourage Violence?

The most recent additions are here and here. We repeatedly expose this unfair tactic and insist that all religions be measured by the same set of standards.

Legitimate criticism is in accordance with fair standards.

Our mission is to expose the lies, exaggerations and double standards employed by anti-Muslim bigots, and our articles do exactly that. We advocate universal human rights, and refuse to give anyone a free pass.

We condemn all acts of terrorism and the killing of innocent civilians, no matter who is responsible.

No matter how many times we condemn terrorism, “critics” insist we haven’t condemned terrorism, and have even had the audacity to smear us a terrorist spin control network. It’s become almost laughable and reminiscent of a famous scene from the 1979 British comedy film, Monty Python’s Life of Brian:

Brian: …Will you please listen? I’m not the Messiah! Do you understand? Honestly!

Woman: Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!

Brian: What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right, I am the Messiah!

Crowd: He is! He is the Messiah!

Will you please listen? We do condemn terrorism! Do you understand? Honestly! …

It’s time to resort to a more potent weapon: common sense. When some halfwit sets his underwear on fire in a failed terrorist attack, anyone with the slightest stake in the Muslim community instantly thinks, “Please, please…don’t let it be a Muslim!”

If it turns out the perpetrator is a Muslim, it is an unmitigated disaster for Muslims everywhere. Besides being morally repugnant, terrorism is self-defeating.

The 9/11 terrorist attacks paved the way for the US to bomb, invade, and occupy one Muslim country after another, including Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan, and Yemen. Syria and Iran may be next.  The Islamophobia that germinated in the aftermath of the attacks has rooted itself in the public imagination and continues to deepen and expand, despite the loons’ absurd claims it doesn’t exist.

The blatantly obvious, self-evident truth is that terrorism hurts Muslims and damages the fight against bigotry.

In fact, it’s hard to imagine anything that sets back the cause of fighting anti-Muslim bigotry more than a terrorist attack that is in any way associated with Muslims. The loons delight in reporting terrorist attacks because their interests are served, not ours. In fact, anti-Muslim hatemongers and outrage peddlers are so eager to publish news of “Islamic” terrorist attacks, they don’t even care if there are no Muslims involved, as we’ve reported here and here.

We condemn all acts of terrorism and the killing of innocent civilians, no matter who is responsible. 

Our question to critics: Do you? 

As Danios said in his recent article, We’re at War!” — And We Have Been Since 1776: 214 Years of American War-Making:

The objects of American aggression have certainly changed with time, but the primary motivating factor behind U.S. wars of aggression have always been the same: expansion of U.S. hegemony.  The Muslim world is being bombed, invaded, and occupied by the United States not because of radical Islam or any inherent flaw in themselves.  Rather, it is being so attacked because it is in the path of the American juggernaut, which is always in need of war.

The evidence that radical Islam is the justification, but not the catalyst, for US invasions is simply historical precedent. Decades before the War on Terror, the late civil rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. spoke out against the war in Vietnam, and his words are no less relevant today:

As I have walked among the desperate, rejected, and angry young men, I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems. I have tried to offer them my deepest compassion while maintaining my conviction that social change comes most meaningfully through non-violent action; but they ask and rightly so, “What about Vietnam?” They ask if our nation wasn’t using massive doses of violence to solve its problems…and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without first having spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today: my own government…

This business of burning human beings with napalm, of filling our nation’s homes with orphans and widows, of injecting poisonous drugs of hate into the veins of peoples normally humane, of sending men home from dark and bloody battlefields physically handicapped and psychologically deranged, cannot be reconciled with wisdom, justice, and love. A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death…

The time has come for America to hear the truth about this tragic war. In international conflicts, the truth is hard to come by because most nations are deceived about themselves. Rationalizations and the incessant search for scapegoats are the psychological cataracts that blind us to our sins…

Even as we commemorate Dr. King’s eloquent and timeless truths, it seems we’ve missed his essential message.

The US dominates the world through military power, maintaining over 700 bases in more than 130 countries, and is still bombing and invading nations with impunity. How is it that we view Muslims as the ones who are exceptionally violent and hellbent on taking over the world?

pro·jec·tion

: the attribution of one’s own ideas, feelings, or attitudes to other people or to objects; especially : the externalization of blame, guilt, or responsibility as a defense against anxiety.

The US has been variously bombing and starving Iraqis for more than two decades, which begs the question:  What did the nation of Iraq ever do to the United States? The answer: nothing.

How is it possible to fixate on acts of terrorism while simultaneously ignoring the colossal crimes the US has visited on the once prosperous nation of Iraq?

dou·ble stan·dard

: a set of principles that applies differently and usually more rigorously to one group of people or circumstances than to another.

de·ni·al

: negation in logic

: a psychological defense mechanism in which confrontation with a personal problem or with reality is avoided by denying the existence of the problem or reality.

Iran hasn’t attacked another country in over 200 years. Even as the US threatens to launch a war against this relatively peaceful nation, many Americans continue to view their country as peace-loving  and standing firmly on the moral high ground.

What accounts for this resilient sense of self-righteousness?

pro·pa·gan·da

: the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person

: ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one’s cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect

ra·tio·nal·ization

: to attribute (one’s actions) to rational and creditable motives without analysis of true and especially unconscious motives.

de·lu·sion

: a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary; also : the abnormal state marked by such beliefs.

How can our critics remain virtually silent on the Western violence and simultaneously assert, ”Loonwatch is protecting Jihadists and terrorists through lies of omission.”

hy·poc·ri·sy

: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion.

Defense mechanisms and relentless propaganda are the “psychological cataracts” that embolden us to criticize others and remain blind to our own faults. Refusal to take a good look in the mirror is also a lie of omission.

We condemn all acts of terrorism and the killing of innocent civilians, no matter who is responsible.

Again, our question to critics: Do you? 

Of course, the so-called “counter-jihadists” could reasonably argue that they too have a limited focus, and are, “pretty much exclusively concerned with exposing the truth about Islam…” That’s fine, as long as their criticism is truthful, proportionate, and in accordance with fair standards.

Read the following excerpts and decide if they constitute hate speech or merely tell the unvarnished truth about Islam:

The cultured peoples, both today and in the past, create and build, proving their worth as the creators and advancers of culture. Islam was and remains only the corrupter and destroyer of culture… Islam can never be great, can never create culture, for it is not a people, but rather only a corrupt mixture of inferior desert tribes with no national life or longing, with no proud and famous past.

And:

In this war for the very existence of the American people, we must daily remind ourselves that Muslims unleashed this war against us….

There is nothing cruder than the Muslim religious books: the Qur’an, the Sunnah, and the Hadith…The whole is a collection of ghost hunting and mysticism, blind cursing and the crassest egotism, an unimaginable superiority complex, sick perversity, the overturning of all natural laws, lust for murder, terror, and horror.

The Crusades, with their enormous sacrifices in the blood of northern peoples, were the result of Muslim insanity.

And:

One feels horror at the unique depravity of the Muslims, at the crimes they have committed, at the devilish hate they have from the beginning directed against all those who did not want to bow to the yoke of Islam! This horror becomes terror when one reads the Qur’anic writings and reads such outbursts of Muslim rage as one finds in the Sunnah and Hadith…..

The term “kafir” expresses the deep antipathy Muslims feel toward infidels. Despite its inferiority, Islam was able to survive over the millennia because of its satanic hatred against infidels.

Muslim hatred today is as strong as it ever was. He who does not submit is their enemy. The Muslim hates the enemy with all his heart and with all the strength of his satanic soul….

Deep and boundless hatred is an essential characteristic of Islam.

Now there is war! The Muslims forced us into a struggle for life and death. The war has forced us to give up much we formerly thought was necessary. It has also forced us to give up the “politeness” that in reality is a weakness. A boxer in the ring must use his fists to defend himself against his opponent. A fencer can only win when he uses his sword. We as a people will survive this war only if we eliminate weakness and “politeness” and respond to the Muslims with an equal hatred. We must always keep in mind what the Muslim wants today, and what he plans to do with us. If we do not oppose the Muslims with the entire energy of our people, we are lost. But if we can use the full force of our soul that has been released by the new crusade, we need not fear the future. The devilish hatred of the Muslims plunged the world into war, need and misery. Our holy hate will bring us victory and save all of mankind.

Common themes include the cultural inferiority of “desert tribes,” crude scriptures, boundless hate for infidels, unique depravity, a superiority complex, sick perversity, and lust for murder, terror, and horror. Muslims pose an existential threat, and their collective insanity is even responsible for the Crusades.

This is pretty standard fare for hate sites like Jihad Watch, Atlas Shrugs, and Frontpage Magazine. Can you guess the source?

It’s a trick question because none of these excerpts came from contemporary hate sites. All are from articles published decades ago by Nazis. Every word in bold has been modified so the passages appear to refer to Muslims instead of Jews.

You can view the original versions here, here and here. We previously published an article comparing specific statements from pre-Nazi era Antisemitic propagandist Julius Streicher and Robert Spencer, here.

That brings us to the next part of the Loonwatch mission statement:

While we find the sheer stupidity and outrageousness of the loons to be a source of invaluable comedy, we also recognize the seriousness of the danger they represent as dedicated hatemongers…

Muslims have not (yet) been subjected to pogroms or rounded up en mass and herded into internment camps, and the point is to make sure that doesn’t happen. We have learned the lessons of history.

During the Nazi era, Antisemitic propaganda resonated with many “good Germans,” just as many “good Americans” once accepted slavery and thought of Native Americans as “savages.”  Everyone outside the lunatic fringe recognizes the monstrous injustices of the past, but far fewer have the moral fortitude to recognize and speak out against the socially sanctioned injustices of the present day.

Islamophobia is the hate du jour, and hatemongers and hypocrites are enjoying a lavish feast.

 

67 Comments For This Post

  1. Garibaldi Says:

    Excellent, balanced and hard-hitting. Great piece Ilisha!

  2. Al Says:

    They will go down on the losing side of history. 20 yrs and no one will know JihadBob or EaB.

  3. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Al

    I agree, unfortunately, it may take longer than twenty years. However, if we keep debunking them, and stop them from making any significant changes to our laws, eventually, Islamophobes will be driven out of the mainstream, and the overwhelming majority of Americans, and people living in other Western Countries will come to see them as the bigots they really are.

  4. Believing Atheist Says:

    Was this article inspired in part by my conversations with Twiceasnice and Reader on the thread: “Marine Gets Three Months in Jail for Massacring Two Dozen Civilians?”

  5. mindy1 Says:

    Interesting piece :)

  6. Juju Says:

    This was a strong piece. Even though these hate mongers are enjoying a good feast, they’re going to wake up one day regretting every bite they took.

  7. Juju Says:

    Of course, due to bad digestion!

  8. JT Says:

    Awesome article and well overdue. Too many loons with too few brain cells conclude, without evidence, that Loonwatch somehow supports terrorism. And every time I am left wondering: WTF? This site cannot, in any way, be interpreted as being supportive of Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Al-Shabaab etc.

    By the way, I totally could not distinguish the Nazi propaganda with what is written daily on Jihadwatch, Atlasshrugs and others. I guess that’s not a good sign.

    I hope Eric Allen Bell reads this.

  9. Believing Atheist Says:

    I am glad to see that Loonwatch advocates the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    One day I believe gradually the OIC will abandon the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam and wholeheartedly embrace the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    I hope this happens soon. I don’t like the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights.

    You can read it here and see if you agree with me:
    http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/publisher,ARAB,,,3ae6b3822c,0.html

    However, I should say this if Muslim nations wish to retain the Cairo Declaration I guess in the spirit of self-determinism we have no choice but to honor their wishes.

  10. Danios Says:

    Great article. Very powerful. Thank you.

  11. Dave Says:

    I love this most excellent and impassioned article in defense of Loonwatch and its mission.

    I love the mention of Martin Luther King Jr. and the quote from his “Beyond Vietnam” speech which he gave on April 4, 1967, exactly one year before he was assassinated. This speech is lesser well known, but it is, in my opinion, perhaps his most important speech. It deserves to be read again today as it is “relevant.”

    I love that this article stresses the importance of speaking out against hateful speech and comentary towards Muslims and their religion, Islam. History has witnessed the consequences of not speaking out against hate.

    Loonwatch has an important mission. And that is precisely why religious bigots hate it. Stand tall, Loonwatch, stand tall.

  12. Censorship Says:

    Actually, what I noticed from your article is how similar the Nazi quotes of Jews sounds similar to Danios’s rantings on the United States and Americans.

    Just replace Danios’ quote on the United State with Muslims or Islam or some “other” to see how similar the writings of Danios is with Nazis:

    The objects of Islamic aggression have certainly changed with time, but the primary motivating factor behind Islamic wars of aggression have always been the same: expansion of Muslim hegemony. The non-Musilm world – East Timor to South Sudan – is being bombed, invaded, and occupied by Muslims not because of Western aggression or any inherent flaw in themselves. Rather, it is being so attacked because it is in the path of the Islamic juggernaut, which is always in need of war.

  13. Ilisha Says:

    @Censorship

    Nice try, except the slaughter in East Timor was Western-backed. South Sudan was not a one-sided conflict perpetrated exclusively by Muslims, and it’s not on the same scale.

    You had to dig through the historical artchive to pull out East Timor. No need for that when it comes to the West.

    Please name the Muslim-majority country that has 700+ military bases in 130 countries and one of the largest stockpiles of weapons in the world.

    US military spending is the highest in the world by far, and not only has nuclear weapons, but is the only country in the world to have ever actually used them on another nation (Japan).

    It’s not Muslims who have drones flying over Western countries, but the other way around….I could go on and on and on, and Danios could probably go on even longer.

    Trying to make Muslim countries look as aggressive as the “greatest purveyor of violence on earth” is like trying to dress up a fruit fly to look like an elephant.

    Good luck with that.

  14. Believing Atheist Says:

    @llisha,

    Please help me tell the U.S. army that bigotry is not an American value.

    “On February 8th, retired Lt. Gen. William Boykin is scheduled to speak at a prayer breakfast at the Military Academy at West Point. This should not happen.

    Boykin has made a series of inflammatory remarks about Muslims and Islam – including that all Mosques in America should close, that most Mosques in America are extremist, that there should be no freedom of religion for Muslims, and that America is in a religious war of Christianity vs. Islam.”

    Vote vets is trying to get as many signatures as possible to demand that West Point reject Boykin. I signed it and my group signed it but we need more signatures. Can Loonwatch help us?

    Please display this petition on your site so that Loonwatchers can sign it.

    Here is the link to the petition.

    http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/6676/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=9379

    Thanks.

  15. Inspired by Mohammad Says:

    Ilisha Good work, and good piece as usual.

    Believing Atheist has a good tip there, and Mikey Weinstein of the MRFF has been talking about this Boykin too, please see MRFF, in fact Loon Watch should team up with MRFF, they are an excellent group, and Mikey was nominated for the Nobel Prize, he was more worthy than Obama certainly, as he brought to the fore, bigotry in the military and the problem the Christian Right which has infiltrated it, cause to members of other religions or atheists or agnostics, it’s shocking and not everything is covered by the mainstream media because the media in much of Bible Belt America is controlled by the same people who inspire these f***heads, Brigette Gabriel gets much of her funds from these same people, they don’t rely on neocons for funds, even though they may be starving, unemployed, badly educated, they still manage to find tithes and funds for their churches

    —————–

    MRFF Demands that Pentagon Disinvite Islamophobic Retired Lt. Gen. Boykin from National Prayer Breakfast at West Point
    http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2012/01/mrff-demands-that-pentagon-disinvite-islamophobic-retired-lt-gen-boykin-from-national-prayer-breakfast-at-west-point/
    ———–

    then clickon ‘archives’ to learn more about what they have compiled on Boykin.
    http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/archives/

  16. Mohammed Says:

    Thank you LoonWatch.

  17. Dave Says:

    Dear Censorship,

    May I reccommend that you read “Genocide in East Timor” at http://www.thirdworldtravelor
    Ilisha is correct: For decades the fascist government of Indonesian has been backed by the U.S.
    President Ford and Henry Kissinger have a lot of blood on their hands for the horrific gencide that took place in East Timor.
    In my opinion, our U.S. government works for multi-corporations who are interested in looting the world of its resources, and not for democracy as it pretends.
    In all likelyhood, the people of East Timor would be free and independent had the U.S. acted more responsibly.
    Dave

  18. Ilisha Says:

    @Believing Atheist

    Thanks for the tip. I’m pressed for time this evening, but we’ll try to get this posted shortly.

    @Inspired by Mohammad

    Thank you. You’ve been supportive since my very first article (before I started adding comments), and I really appreciate that. :)

  19. JD Says:

    UPDATE: Under Pressure from MRFF and other Civil Rights Allies, Islamophobic Retired Lt. Gen. Boykin Withdraws from National Prayer Breakfast at West Point

    Monday, January 30, 2012

    MRFF Friends and Allies,

    This is a monumentally-clear indication that when organizations such as the Military Religious Freedom Foundation and VoteVets work toward a common goal, with the strength of our dedicated supporters behind us, concrete positive change can be achieved.

    We are deeply saddened that it took a public outcry of this magnitude to cause Boykin to pull out from this event, likely under pressure from within the Pentagon. Our outcry must not stop – all individuals within the command structure responsible for inviting this vile Islamophobe must be held accountable via courts martial.

    On behalf of every single serviceman and servicewoman that we represent, and especially our 101 clients at West Point, we thank you so much for your continued support. Please read the powerful email below that we just received from one of our anonymous West Point Faculty clients.

    This is truly a momentous victory for the Constitution, and you’re responsible for it.

    Michael L. “Mikey” Weinstein, Esq.
    Founder & President
    Military Religious Freedom Foundation

    http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2012/01/mrff-demands-that-pentagon-disinvite-islamophobic-retired-lt-gen-boykin-from-national-prayer-breakfast-at-west-point/

  20. Inspired by Mohammad Says:

    Ah kudos to MRFF, thanks for that JD,

    It confirms what I said above :)

  21. Censorship Says:

    Nice try, except the slaughter in East Timor was Western-backed

    Is that your get out of jail card or something?

    Sorry, who did the invading, occupying and massacring in East Timor? Muslim Indonesia or the West?

    Using that (incorrect) argument is very strange indeed.

    Now, did the West back the invasion of East Timor? According to Osama bin Laden and the Bali bombers, the kuffar West interfered in the affairs of a Muslim nation – something the lowly kuffar have no business to meddle (oppose) with.

    In fact, East Timor is one of OBL’s grievances against the West and Australia in particular. It’s also the reason the Bali bombers struck a night club full of Australians – because Australia opposed the invasion and occupation of a non-Muslim territory by a Muslim nation.

    South Sudan was not a one-sided conflict perpetrated exclusively by Muslims

    I see. The wars the United States has been in were all one sided conflicts. Good point.

    Btw, how ’bout you provide the body count from the war.

    You had to dig through the historical artchive to pull out East Timor. No need for that when it comes to the West.

    Really? I beg to differ.

    Please name the Muslim-majority country that has 700+ military bases in 130 countries and one of the largest stockpiles of weapons in the world.

    No Muslim country has kept the Communists from taking the Southern Korean peninsula, prevented the spread of Communism to Japan and Germany (and allowed these nations to become some of the most advanced and productive in the world), halted Saddam Hussein’s attempt at taking Saudi Arabia or ground the Soviet Union to a halt by out competing her.

    Oh, and btw, isn’t it strange that we don’t have a Buddhist/Shinto/Christian transnational terrorist organization/movement similar to al-Qaeda?

    US military spending is the highest in the world by far.

    Not necessarily. Chinese spending on her military is lower largely because the wages soldiers, officers and workers to produce military equipment are paid is far lower than in the United States. China also spends more on maintaining her police state than she does her military. It also should be mentioned that some Chinese state companies have been fronts for the military – where Chinese government money is funneled to these companies that winds up in the pockets of her military. It’s one way the Chinese can cook the books on military spending.

    It’s not Muslims who have drones flying over Western countries

    I’d prefer Muslims to have drones over suicide bombing Mosques, churches and temples. For some reason I don’t believe we’ll be seeing any attempt by Muslims to spend hundreds of millions of dollars devising technologies to limit civilian casualties.

    Oh, btw, you forgot to mention that in your post. Wonder why.

    but the other way around….I could go on and on and on, and Danios could probably go on even longer.

    So no word on the similarity between Danios’s writing and the Nazis you quoted in your opening post, huh?

    Trying to make Muslim countries look as aggressive as the “greatest purveyor of violence on earth” is like trying to dress up a fruit fly to look like an elephant.

    Look at the (real) body counts in the past thirty years and you’ll see the largely impoverished and technologically challenged Muslim world has outstripped the West in body count.

    Sudan – 2 million dead in south Sudan since 1983. That casualty figure alone works out as being higher than the combined deaths caused by all Western nations starting in the same year that the war in Sudan started. A war that has gone largely unnoticed and where the victims – millions of victims – have been mostly non-Muslim (so the world yawns – as do the Left).

  22. Censorship Says:

    Btw Illisha.

    If we’re going to name countries that have military bases protecting the world or that spend millions of dollars to prevent civilian casualties, then please name the religion that on a daily basis manages to churn out crazed holy warriors who strike markets, buses, hotels, places of worship, trains, airplanes, newspaper offices, apartment buildings, high rise office towers, villages, artists, satirists, politicians, novelists, members of a different sect, and peaceful demonstrators (whose demonstrations are usually prompted by the destruction of their place of worship by these same holy zealots)?

  23. HGG Says:

    This is by far one of the best articles on Loonwatch in a long, long time. My hat is off to you, Illisha.

  24. Jack Cope Says:

    Censorship/Delyssandra,

    War is simply terrorism but wearing uniforms. Yearp, there are a fair number of blind fools who claim to be Muslims that kill others, we refute and oppose them. When will persons such as yourselves refute acts of aggressions by your own powers, often powers that are ‘voted’ into office? See there is not a hell of a lot I can do about those misguided few who call themselves Muslims other than make sure that my fellow Muslims don’t fall into their trap. You on the other hand have votes and whatnot.

    Jack

  25. Jack Cope Says:

    PS: In response to the claim ‘you Muslims never speak out against Al-Queda’ the following is my own condemnation of their actions:

    http://thepenofawanderingstranger.com/personal/a-short-note-on-al-queda-et-all/

    There are thousands if not hundreds of thousands more

    Jack

  26. Ilisha Says:

    @Censorship

    “Is that your get out of jail card or something?”

    No, it seems to be yours. When the West installs and supports a dictator, they share responsibility for his or her crimes. What’s religion got to do with it? It was the same with Pinochet, and that was a Christian country.

    —-

    You beg to differ on whether you’re digging in the historical archive?

    Indonesia’s 25-year occupation of East Timor ended in 1999.

    —-

    Who cares about Osama Bin Laden’s grievances? He’s dead.

    Many people around the world resent US meddling and interventions. Again, not related to religion.

    —-

    “I see. The wars the United States has been in were all one sided conflicts. Good point.”

    No, it’s not a very good point, and it wasn’t mine.

    My point was precisely the opposite–it’s a two-sided conflict. It was a civil war, not a foreign invasion. It isn’t comparable.

    Also, the death toll includes people on both sides, and it wasn’t 2 million:

    “In January 2010, The Centre for Research on the Epidemiology of Disasters published an article in a special issue of The Lancet. The article, entitled Patterns of mortality rates in Darfur Conflict,[160] estimated, with 95% confidence, that the excess number of deaths is between 178,258 and 461,520 (the mean being 298,271), with 80% of these due to diseases.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Darfur#cite_note-159

    —-

    “Oh, and btw, isn’t it strange that we don’t have a Buddhist/Shinto/Christian transnational terrorist organization/movement similar to al-Qaeda?

    No, not if you know the origins of al-Qaeda and rationally define “terrorism.”

    —-

    “Chinese spending on her military is lower largely because the wages soldiers…

    Your military spending analysis is…novel. I like to go with facts:

    “A new report released today by SIPRI, a Swedish-based think tank, reveals that U.S. military spending has almost doubled since 2001. The U.S. spent an astounding $698 billion on the military last year, an 81% increase over the last decade.

    U.S. spending on the military last year far exceeded any other country. We spent six times more than China — the second largest spender. Overall, the world expended $1.6 trillion on the military, with the United States accounting for the lion’s share…”

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/04/11/157596/military-spending-doubled-since-2001/?mobile=nc

    —-

    “I’d prefer Muslims to have drones over suicide bombing Mosques, churches and temples.

    You would???

    —-

    “For some reason I don’t believe we’ll be seeing any attempt by Muslims to spend hundreds of millions of dollars devising technologies to limit civilian casualties.

    Oh, btw, you forgot to mention that in your post. Wonder why.

    Keep wondering. I suspect explaining won’t help.

    —-

    That’s enough fun for one day. I’ll let readers evaluate the rest of your “arguments” for themselves.

  27. Believing Atheist Says:

    @Censorship,

    You claim that: “I’d prefer Muslims to have drones over suicide bombing Mosques, churches and temples.”

    If that’s true then please pressure and petition your govt to give Muslim countries drone technology. Just to verify that you indeed pressured and petitioned your country (which I suspect is my country, the U.S.) please link your petition in the next post so that we all can see it.

    I hope you don’t chicken out of this. Remember this is your preference and your fantasy. I want you to fulfill it.

  28. The Cake Is A Lie Says:

    I’m beginning to think that speaking out against Islamic terror is counter-productive. Muslims can yell against Al Qaeda until they lose their voice and it still will not make any difference to the Islamophoboes who will always deny that Muslims speak out against terrorism. I think its time Muslims as a whole stop being compliant to Islamophobic demands and start to speak out against Islamophobia itself.

    By the way Ilisha, loved the article!

  29. bin dead awhile Says:

    @ ILisha, what can I say but superb. i am not one to be speechless, but this time, i am. May the almighty increase your knowledge(not that its lacking ;) ). Rabbi Zidni Ilma. Ameen.

  30. Inspired by Mohammad Says:

    PS: In response to the claim ‘you Muslims never speak out against Al-Queda’ the following is my own condemnation of their actions:

    What I want to know is if Censorship/Delyssandra,and their ilk have actualy come across any Muslims who do support AQ. If they have, they will not likely be in these kind of forums, so you two are wasting your time.

    It would be interesting to see if these people actually have a real life exchange with people who support these views. So Censorship/Delyssandra have you? You two saying these kind of things here, is just preaching to the choir. Nobody here supports those views.

    You need to say them to people who believe in them, not those who don’t. Did that ever cross your little minds? Did it also cross your little minds that we’re on the same side here, and that you gain nothing by antagonising potential allies?

  31. Sir David ( Illuminati membership number 5:32) Warning Contains Irony Says:

    Dear Censorship
    Who are these muslims ?
    I suspect that you would be quite upset if I lumped all christains together and looked at them all as one bunch .
    Such as adding all the military spending of europe and Russia together plus deaths with that of the USA.
    You seems to live in a world were only you can define people .
    Lets try this idea .
    Islam is a religion .
    Muslims are the followers of this religion .
    Muslims come in a number of sects .
    They are not all the same
    (That was not too difficult or complicated for you was it ?)
    Politics is differant , countries are not the same as religions.
    (Are you still following this thread of ideas ?)
    Thus Usa is to France what Alergia is to Malaysia .
    There is no single muslim nation nor is there is no single christain nation
    Why not let muslims define themselves rather that let an outsider such as you define them ? Or wht should we let you have the power to define others and accept your definition that is against common sence?

  32. Sam Seed Says:

    Great article Illisha, makes good sense.

  33. Ilisha Says:

    @Believing Atheist

    “Was this article inspired in part by my conversations with Twiceasnice and Reader on the thread: “Marine Gets Three Months in Jail for Massacring Two Dozen Civilians?”

    Do you mean your comments about Iraq? In this case, we just happened to have strikingly similar views. We also share similar views on universal human rights.

    Although we don’t always agree, I do find many of your posts interesting and thought-provoking.

  34. Géji Says:

    > “Did it also cross your little minds that we’re on the same side here, and that you gain nothing by antagonising potential allies?”

    @Inspired, please don’t give her unmerited hope, she cannot be on “our side”, nor our “potential allies”, if she doesn’t denounce her bigotry towards Muslims first, then denounce Western aggression and professional terrorism, and denounce the ethnic-cleansing of Palestinians, and denounce all form of bigotry directed against any human being… The key of being one of LoonWatch allies is not just to denounce few terrorist acts done by Muslims, but all terrorist acts, starting the US of A, until then she’s not on our side.

  35. Censorship Says:

    War is simply terrorism but wearing uniforms.

    And vigilantes are really police officers without a badge.

    Yeah, ok.

    No, it seems to be yours. When the West installs and supports a dictator, they share responsibility for his or her crimes. What’s religion got to do with it? It was the same with Pinochet, and that was a Christian country.

    I ask myself what religion has to do with Danios’ mad ravings when he describes Iraqis or Afghans as “Muslim”. Rather insulting to the non-Muslims in Iraq who have suffered hardship in my humble opinion.

    Who cares about Osama Bin Laden’s grievances? He’s dead.

    Good. Glad we don’t have to hear that 9/11 was America’s fault because a terrorist had grievances.

    Many people around the world resent US meddling and interventions. Again, not related to religion.

    Some resent the West opposing one Muslim nation from invading, occupying and committing massacres in a non-Muslim nation.

    My point was precisely the opposite–it’s a two-sided conflict. It was a civil war, not a foreign invasion. It isn’t comparable.

    Except Danios’ claim that America has been at war for X amount of years includes the American Civil War, the Revolutionary War and the war of 1812.

    Also, the death toll includes people on both sides, and it wasn’t 2 million:

    “In January 2010, The Centre for Research on the Epidemiology of Disasters published an article in a special issue of The Lancet. The article, entitled Patterns of mortality rates in Darfur Conflict,[160] estimated, with 95% confidence, that the excess number of deaths is between 178,258 and 461,520 (the mean being 298,271), with 80% of these due to diseases.“

    The Darfur conflict is not the same as Sudan’s war against the largely Christian and animist populations in the South.

    Two different conflicts Illisha.

    U.S. spending on the military last year far exceeded any other country. We spent six times more than China — the second largest spender. Overall, the world expended $1.6 trillion on the military, with the United States accounting for the lion’s share…”

    What are the salaries of Chinese soldiers and officers and workers who produce China’s military hardware?

    Everything in China is far cheaper, especially wages. Her military spending will drastically increase as China modernizes and her citizens are paid higher wages.

    Btw, Ilisha, I’d at least like to thank you for publishing my comments.

    The other moderators see themselves as the Web’s thought police (or is that vigilantes, Jack?) and censor comments that don’t tote the party line, Komrade.

    So, this will probably be my last post in this thread. I’ll be down the road over at the other website. Jackie boy can pick up in the thread over there he fled from.

  36. Ilisha Says:

    @Censorship

    “Btw, Ilisha, I’d at least like to thank you for publishing my comments”.

    You’re welcome. I’m content to let visitors evaluate our respective arguments and draw their own conclusions.

    I see no need to “censor” your comments.

  37. Link182 Says:

    ”And vigilantes are really police officers without a badge.”

    You’re saying that comparing the Bali bombers to American soldiers kill Afghan children for fun is wrong because the latter wear uniforms?

  38. JD Says:

    Censorship Says:
    January 30th, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    Muslim country has kept the Communists from taking the Southern Korean peninsula
    ———————-
    Korean wars Turkey send 5,460 of there people watch MASH sometime few episodes has Turk troops.
    ———————————————
    Censorship Says:

    Oh, and btw, isn’t it strange that we don’t have a Buddhist/Shinto/Christian transnational terrorist organization/movement similar to al-Qaeda?
    ——————————————
    IRA ,Lord Resistance Army, Kach and Kahane Chai,Babbar Khalsa ,International Sikh Youth Federation (ISYF) should I go on?

    ——————————————

    US military spending is the highest in the world by far.

    Not necessarily. Chinese spending on her military is lower largely because the wages soldiers, officers and workers to produce military equipment are paid is far lower than in the United States.

    ———————————————

    Yes and our economy tanked because we pay our guys better not because of Iraq / Afgan war + bad decision by our companys /banks

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

    Rank Country Military expenditure, 2010[2] % of GDP,
    1 United States United States 687,105,000,000 4.7%
    2 China People’s Republic of China 114,300,000,000 2.2

    ============================================

    Look at the (real) body counts in the past thirty years and you’ll see the largely impoverished and technologically challenged Muslim world has outstripped the West in body count.
    ================================

    Yes because to you muslimphobes ever killing death in ____ land done by someone or by a Dictator power hungry jerk and phyco is “Islamic”

    which is proven by your next post

    ” Censorship Says:
    January 30th, 2012 at 10:10 pm

    Btw Illisha.

    If we’re going to name countries that have military bases protecting the world or that spend millions of dollars to prevent civilian casualties

    <<<<>>>>

    then please name the religion that on a daily basis manages to churn out crazed holy warriors who strike markets, buses, hotels, places of worship, trains, airplanes, newspaper offices, apartment buildings, high rise office towers, villages,

    <<<<<<>>>>>.

    artists, satirists, politicians, novelists, members of a different sect, and peaceful demonstrators”

  39. JD Says:

    Rank Country Military expenditure % of GDP,
    1 United States 687,105,000,000 4.7%
    2 China 114,300,000,000 2.2%

  40. DelyssandraUncensored Says:

    Inspired By Mohammed,

    I cannot speak for Censorship, but I can speak for myself, when I say that I believe Al Qaeda is practicing the fundamental teachings of Islam…that is why they are referred to as Islamic FUNDAMENTALISTS…not a watered down version.

    I am open to hearing a rebuttal from you. Why should I not believe this? I am open to reading what you have to say obectively!

  41. Ilisha Says:

    Please don’t feed the she-troll. (I’ve been informed it’s female)

    DelyssandraUncensored posts comments on Loonwatch in the hope we won’t published them, just so she can go complain about our “censorship” on her blog:

    http://loonwatchexposed.blogspot.com/ :

    “This Section will be updated regularly, to show the ridiculous censorship at LoonWatch.com against many thoughtful commentators…”

    She’s not here to make “thoughtful” comments. She’s here to bait and derail until we run out of patience, and then cry censorship.

    @DelyssandraUncensored

    We’re under no obligation to post your inane comments. Expect them to go in the trash where they belong.

  42. JT Says:

    Delyssandra, you have far too much time on your hands. You’re going to post comments here, hoping they won’t get published and then post them on your shitty website? That’s pathetic.

    Get a life, weirdo.

  43. InspiredByMohammad Says:

    OMG

    I wonder who these two are then, if they went to the trouble of setting up a blogger site loonwatchexposed? Could they by Geller and Spencer?

    Probably Eric Bell and Spencer :)

    They’ll be disappointed, there is nothing to ‘expose’ here.

  44. Truth Seeker Says:

    I agree with Sir.David Fraud.Somebody asked me my honest opinion about Muslims.I had to tell the truth because I am not a Muslim and never will be one.They are all snakes ,some more poisonous than others.They are evil because of Mohammad.If some Christians are evil,It is inspite of good teaching of Christ which they don’t follow.I have no time for cultured hypocrites Christian boot-lickers like David-the fraud.

  45. Lilly Says:

    I love how people “conveniently” forget parts of history that do not comply with their image. Have you forgotten there HAVE BEEN Buddhist/Shinto/Etc terrorist attacks? Oh.. right.. you can relegate them to “deviants”. Ohh.. let me get my professor… he’s an Atheist and loves to talk about how there are Atheist terrorists, and religious groups performing attacks and blaming others. Happens all the time.

  46. khushboo Says:

    They are evil because of Mohammad.If some Christians are evil,It is inspite of good teaching of Christ which they don’t follow”

    So evil Christians don’t follow Christ but evil Muslims follow Muhammad (PBUH)?? How would you know anything about Muslims?! Are you psychic??!! What a hypocrite and a waste of space you are!

  47. corey Says:

    so let me get this straight her idiotic comments are not posted and she is creating a blog to bitch about it wow that is sad when you think about it.

  48. Ilisha Says:

    @Lilly

    “I love how people “conveniently” forget parts of history that do not comply with their image. Have you forgotten there HAVE BEEN Buddhist/Shinto/Etc terrorist attacks?”

    Exactly! My reply to Censorship was a bit cryptic, but that’s what I mean by “rationally defined.”

    According to loon logic (and much of the mainstream), Anders Breivik is a deranged “lone wolf” who commited a heinus act in spite of Western culture. (as khushboo also pointed out)

    A person of Muslim origin (even if secular) who does something similar is a terrorist acting “in the name of Islam,” and it’s because of Islamic culture.

    They employ a self-serving definition, which is just another form of those “psychological cataracts” MLK mentioned in his speech.

    Last time I checked, the non-Muslim Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka held the world record for suicide bombings. That doesn’t fit into the self-serving narrative, so it’s simply ignored.

  49. Believing Atheist Says:

    @everyone,

    Well sadly, it is official Eric Allen Bell has become a Jihadwatcher and mouthpiece for David Horowitz. He went to the Jamie Glazov show (a radio show), to condemn Loonwatch as a terrorist spin network once again. He said some other things about Loonwatch too, which I forget because I didn’t really pay attention to the whole thing since Jamie kept on talking over him.

    Eric’s radio conversation with Jamie Glazov can be heard here:
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/radio-jihad/2012/02/01/the-jamie-glazov-show

    Robert Spencer has also praised Eric highly here:
    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/01/jamie-glazov-show-tonight-features-eric-allen-bell-former-daily-kos-blogger-fired-for-islamophobia.html

    At one point I thought Eric could be saved. My bad!

  50. Lilly Says:

    @ everybody – Lets not make Mr.Bell into an icon. He’s done what he decided to do. Let us just move along.

  51. Truth Seeker Says:

    @ Khushboo: A tree is known by its fruits.The TREE of ISLAM bears bad fruits through its teaching as found in the Quran an Hadiths and Sunna.The Muslims follow those teachings without ever questioning and those are reflected in their every day actions of dishonesty.murders,rapes,Ill treatment of Non-Muslim in their countries but demanding every right in Non-Muslim countries.They impose their values in dress code like wearing MOVING TENTS or BLACK LETTER BOXES,HONOUR KILLING.They should move back to Muslim Paradises and practice Islam there and leave the CHRISTIAN WEST alone.The Muslims are like SAND in your meal or like a stone in your shoe.

  52. Lilly Says:

    @Truth Seeker – Jesus (pbuh) wept! Whatever happened to the goodness of Christians! It does you no good sir/ma’am to be acting in this manner. If anything.. you are making Christians look bad. You are human and free to choose, but is acting foolish the best way to behave? Peace!

  53. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Truth Seeker,

    There are plenty of Muslims who go against those negative stereotypes, so to insist that all Muslims should leave the west for those reasons is not only unfair, its very bigoted. Also, even if there are some really disturbing things in the Quran and Hadith, so what? There are some really disgusting things in the Bible as well, especially the old testament. Just how many mainstream Christians or Jews in America and the west in general, support killing people who work on the sabbath? Yet there are passages in the Bible that call for that. There are also passages in the old testament that call for the execution of Homosexuals, yet some people who believe that the Bible is inspired by God, none are not Homophobic at all, and in fact champion gay lesbian bisexual and transgendered rights.

  54. Dave Says:

    I hope someday you do seek the truth, Truth Seeker.
    For what it is worth, Truth Seeker, I thought your last comment was disgusting and I found it grossly lacking in merit or contribution.
    May Kindness find you!

  55. Garo Says:

    Ilisha,

    Let the dogs bark against the highest cloud.

    You are the highest cloud.

    Great and honest work. Thank you.

  56. Ilisha Says:

    @Everyone

    I’d like to thank everyone for their kind words. I’ve only been with Loonwatch for a few months, and because this article meant the most to me on a personal level, your support is especially gratifying.

    This article relates to our willingness to allow criticism, and some visitors have expressed concerns about censorship, so I’d like to address that briefly.

    Loonwatch approves 95% of all comments submitted by visitors. If it weren’t for a certain someone (Hint: SNAKES), that percentage would be a bit higher. I think 95% is quite generous.

    We have a generous policy because we believe our ideas and principles can stand up to scrutiny. Most people can detect sincerity, and know when something rings true.

    In fact, all of the major religious traditions tell us that we are naturally able to discern the truth. This is in the Qur’an (The Cow 2:256) and the Bible (John 8:32), as just two examples.

    I’m very proud of Loonwatch and the audience we attract. The overwhelming majority are thoughtful, intelligent, good natured people. Thanks to everyone, even the haters, for whom there is always hope.

  57. Solid Snake Says:

    “Loonwatch approves 95% of all comments submitted by visitors. If it weren’t for a certain someone (Hint: SNAKES), that percentage would be a bit higher. I think 95% is quite generous.”

    Whoa whoa whoa now hold on a minute what have my brothers and i done to deserve what you said. The Snake family is saddened to hear that statement from Loonwatch :( as the late Naked Snake (Big Boss) was a great supporter of this website/

    lulz sorry just couldnt resist….I used to comment on here but since our boys/ and gals such as Jack cope, BA, Geji, Kushboo and others have decimated loon arguments left and right I’ve relegated myself to lurking around loonwatch comments section for the past couple of months and I must say this place is becoming my favorite site on the interwebs! Excellent article Illisha! And great job to all the people who post here in the fight against idiocy and loonism!

    Loonism, now weve got to coin that term!

  58. corey Says:

    its been awhile since dung seeker used the whole “sand in your meal” thing brings me back a bit when first reading his nonsensical rants.

  59. khushboo Says:

    LOL @ Corey. Ah, the memories!

  60. Sir David ( Illuminati membership number 5:32) Warning Contains Irony Says:

    “Truthseeker I agree with Sir David”
    You certainly do not ! All you have done is illustrate you have the comprehesion abilities of my pet Dog

  61. Sam Seed Says:

    @Sir David, I don’t think you should belittle your dog, I’m sure it’s much smarter than old pork brains.

  62. Ilisha Says:

    @Solid Snake

    Loonism…I like it. Someone the other day (off forum) called me a “Loonwitch.” I like that one too. The wicked Loonwitch of the West.

    To be fair, I think the “Loonwitch” title properly belongs to Pamela Geller. :)

  63. khushboo Says:

    Solid Snake, I’m glad you’re out of lurkdom and prepped to fight against “loonism”.

  64. Just Stopping By Says:

    “Loonism” or “loonacy”?

  65. Dave Says:

    You get an A+ in Patience!
    If they cry censorship, that’s okay with me. It is okay to censore someone. Especially on your own website!
    All coments should have as a goal: to add to the discussion.
    In Kindness!
    Dave

  66. Truth Hurts Says:

    With regard to Indonesia, the British Military Industrial Complex done pretty well out of it too.

    Top international award-winning Australian investigative journalist John Pilger in “Hidden Agenda” highlights many facts.

    http://johnpilger.com/articles/a-worse-slaughter

    Former UK diplomat, RIIA defense think-tank is an insider turned Christian Aid advisor.

    http://markcurtis.info/

    Naomi Klein in “Shock Doctrine”

    http://shockdoctrinesummary.blogspot.com/2009/04/1968-indonesia.html

  67. Sir David ( Illuminati membership number 5:32) Warning Contains Irony Says:

    I have a look at Loonwatch exposed .
    So popular they have no friends yet :-)
    Surprisingly also a picture of a dutch Islamaphobe murdered by a mental patient ( bit tastless if you ask me )

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