Robert Spencer

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Pamela Geller

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Bat Ye'or

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Brigitte Gabriel

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Daniel Pipes

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Debbie Schlussel

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Walid Shoebat

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Joe Kaufman

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Wafa Sultan

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Geert Wilders

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The Nuclear Card

This is Why Radical Christians are One of the Greatest Threats to the US Constitution

Posted on 28 February 2012 by Garibaldi

Santorum_Separation_Church_and_State

Rick Santorum on "This Week" with George Stephanopoulos

For the past several years Loonwatch writers have repeatedly made the very “significant” (and obvious) point that radical Christian Islamophobes seek to undermine the constitution of the USA by entangling church and state; i.e. undermining the separation of Church and State.

We have also pointed out that the fervent fear-mongering about “Islamization,” a fairytale concept, is nothing more than projection on the part of these radicals. (Propaganda about the “Islamization” of the USA is even more ridiculous when one considers history; the fact that America was forcibly “Christianized” by colonial settlers and their offspring.)

Many Radical Christians today believe America has changed too much and that the superior place of Christianity needs to be reasserted, i.e. re-Christianization. Not only does this thought permeate the GOP, it has infact captured the GOP. This much is clear from the ongoing reality TV circus known as the Republican primary debates.

Take Rick Santorum, it was recently revealed that he “felt like throwing up” when he first read JFK’s famous speech on the separation of church and state. He was questioned about this by George Stephanopoulos, Santorum replied that he felt like vomiting after reading the first substantive line of the speech in which JFK said, “Apparently it is important for me to state again, not what kind of church I believe in, for that should be important only to me, but what kind of America I believe in. I believe in an America in which the separation between church and state is absolute. Santorum went on to say,

I don’t believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute. The idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country.

This is a leading Republican candidate for the presidency saying this, it’s not something that should be simply ignored. Can one imagine if Rep.Keith Ellison, a Muslim Congressman had said the above? For a surety the Islamophobesphere would be flailing wildly about “Islamization” and the impending Sharia take over in Ellison’s home state of Minnesota.

One must also ask where is the condemnation from loons such as Robert Spencer, a fellow Catholic? We can answer our own question, Spencer is not interested in condemning this threat because he likely agrees with Santorum. Spencer in the past has spoken in forums where he has agreed with other speakers attacking the Enlightenment. His attacks weren’t of the philosophical post-modernist variety either but couched in defense of the faith rhetoric. As I wrote at the time,

Spencer agrees with Professor Kreeft regarding the Enlightenment being a threat to Catholicism though he didn’t explicitly say that Islam was less of a threat. I can see how Ultra-Conservative Catholics may rail against the Enlightenment, it was the era which saw a secularist revolt in the name of reason against the Catholic Church and which led to formulas for the Separation of Church and State, it also witnessed the decline of the power of the Catholic Church in the temporal realm.

Coming back to the main topic, I don’t believe Santorum misspoke. I don’t believe Santorum misunderstood what JFK meant or the impetus behind why he gave that famous 1960 speech. I don’t believe Santorum was making a point about how voices of faith need to be heard in the public square, etc.

Santorum believes America is a Christian country, he believes the “founding fathers” meant for it to stay that way and in fact supported such a notion. I am not sure whether Santorum follows the Dominionist ideology, (an ideology that seems to plague Protestants mostly), but he clearly believes the Church has a part to play in the operation of government.

This incident reveals the deep hypocrisy and faux loyalty to the Constitution amongst many of the Islamophobes and the populist politicians who are riding the Islam/Muslim-bashing wave. Islam and Muslims are being used as a distraction that serves to 1.) make us lose sight of the real issues, and 2.) covers a darker intent of reconquista, rechristianization by any means necessary.

Lastly, I want to clarify that this post is obviously not an attack on Christianity and should not be understood that way. The great majority of Christians are as repulsed as any other citizen when they hear such inanities spewing forth from the mouths of politicians speaking in the name of their faith. They are also on the front lines actively fighting this scourge.

*******************************

A very good video from the Young Turks on Rick Santorum’s attack on the Separation of Church and State:

69 Comments For This Post

  1. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Garibaldi

    Here’s a pretty good website for anyone living in the United States who is concerned with the danger radical Christian Fundamentalist pose to our liberty. Its one of the best secularist organizations out there, and they’re not anti Christin or anti religion. Berry Lyn is even a Christian minister.

    American United For The Separation of Church and State.
    http://www.au.org/

  2. Garibaldi Says:

    Thanks for the tip Critical, I was just thinking to include that link!

  3. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Garibaldi

    You’re Welcome!

  4. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Garibaldi

    By the way, you may or may not know this, but The Reverend Berry Lyn’s organization was at the forefront fighting the anti sharia legislation put forth by groups like Act For America, as well.

    http://www.au.org/search/site/sharia

  5. HGG Says:

    I said this in the thread where this item was posted and I’ll say it again: whenever I watch Santorum speak on Women’s rights, women and gays in the military or, like in the interview above, about the separation of Church and State, I do feel like throwing up. And it’s not even hyperbole. The guy makes me sick.

    So that makes us, even, I suppose.

  6. Al Says:

    Santorum is a complete nutcase.

  7. mindy1 Says:

    Arrgggghhh where are the candidates for those who are not as progressive as Obama, but who do not want to go back to the “good ole days??” Where are the centrist candidates?? :eek:

  8. eslaporte Says:

    These radical Christians want for America what the Taliban wants for Afghanistan: Rule by religious laws, including laws for heresy and blasphemy.

    American Talibans like Rick Santorum wants to put the Bible over the Constitution. What I think were would get if this religious radical ever got to be president would be like what the Dutch got while under the rule of Philip II of Spain in the late 1500s. It wasn’t pretty…

    And – as a Christian I don’t want to live in a Christian country.

  9. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Eslaporte

    Interestingly enough, there’s a book called American Taliban, about the religious right. A friend of mine told me about it. I think this might be the book he was talking about.

    American Taliban: How War, Sex, Sin, and Power Bind Jihadists and the Radical Right.
    http://www.amazon.com/American-Taliban-Power-Jihadists-Radical/dp/1936227029/ref=tag_stp_s2f_edpp_americ16an

  10. jawad Says:

    i think it’d be interesting if they were asked to declare their loyalty, constitution or the bible (like many have asked rep ellison to do)

  11. Reynardine Says:

    In fact, there are Dominionists trying to steeplejack the Catholic church, and I believe Santorum is one.

  12. Zakariya Ali Sher Says:

    I have no problem with ANY given candidate being religious; in fact, I would rather encourage people to have strong convictions and wear it in the open. I have no problem with a fellow Muslim running for office, or for a Jew, Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Wiccan, Satanist or Atheist running for office. The only caveat being that they recognize MY choice to practice Islam as I see fit, and let me practice in peace.

    In America, we have separation of Church and State specifically because we have so many diverse beliefs. Even if, as so many dominionists like to claim, the Founding Fathers had intended for America to be a ‘Christian nation,’ then whose Christianity do we follow? The Catholics? The Baptists? The Lutherans? The Ethiopian Orthodox Church? The Mormons? The Seventh Day Adventists? The Amish? The Unitarians? There are so, so many variations of Christianity alone that we cannot logically implement any of them as the ideological basis for our laws without stepping on someone else’s toes. The ONLY choice is to respect and allow everyone to practice their faith without getting the government involved in it.

    And that’s where I have to part ways with Santorum, because he does not seem to recognize that freedom of religion does not mean you can’t hold office and still maintain your faith. It only means you cannot impose it on someone else. Or perhaps he chooses not to acknowledge that so he can pander to the so-called ‘religious right.’ Either way though, I suspect it will be a moot point; I doubt Santorum could beat Obama. Barring some huge disaster, Obama will eat him alive. Yes, Santorum is doing well against Romney, but the people who vote in a primary are not the general public, nor are they Democrats (well, except in Michigan, where Democrats have copied Rush’s operation chaos), Independents and other voters who are far less likely to care about social conservatism.

    Let’s face it guys. As much as Santorum may be a bigot and anti-Muslim, he isn’t likely to become President so we have less to fear from him. Frankly, I’m much more concerned by people like King and Bloomburg. We’ve got New York police spying on Muslim students, businesses and mosques outside of their jurisdiction, and the mayor openly defends it? Seriously? That’s much scarier to me. We should be working as hard as possible to get those two clowns out of office.

  13. SimpleAtheist Says:

    Rick Santorum, like other extremists such as Spencer, Geller, and Gingrich, all live in a fantasy world. They can live their lives the way they want to- but don’t impose it on everybody else or start attacking Muslims/Islam because of beliefs.

    The same goes for zionists- Ancient fairy tales do not entitle you to claim half the levant all for yourselves.

  14. SimpleAtheist Says:

    Gotta luv’ those good ole boys, those Judeo-Christian, synagogue/church goin, God fearin, red-blooded, white boys that made our nation what it is….

    Lol…..

  15. Nadir Says:

    Thanks for writing about this, it really helps put things into perspective.

  16. Black Infidel Says:

    Erykah Badu concert in Malaysia canceled over her ‘Allah’ tattoo, report says

    A publicity photo of Erykah Badu has gotten the singer, and the newspaper that published it, in trouble in Malaysia.

    Badu had her concert canceled by the Kuala Lumpur’s Culture, Arts and Heritage Ministry when a photo showing a tattoo of the Aarabic word “Allah” written on Badu’s upper body was published in the Malaysian newspaper The Star, BBC News reports.

    A Malaysian official reportedly called the photo “an insult to Islam.”

    The Star has already issued an apology, BBC News reports, calling the publication of the photo “inadvertent.”

    “We deeply regret any offence caused to Muslims and sincerely apologize for the oversight,” the paper said on Tuesday.

    Badu, already in Kuala Lumpur for the concert, is reportedly “worried and dismayed.”

    Tattoos are a no-no in Islam, as is using the word “Allah” in any way deemed disrespectful. Malaysia is predominantly Muslim.

    There were already protesters outside The Star offices when the paper issued its apology, BBC News reports.

    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/02/28/erykah-badu-concert-in-malaysia-canceled-over-her-allah-tattoo-report-says/?intcmp=features#ixzz1nk6YNjVl

  17. khushboo Says:

    minister santorum wants to bring in creeping Christian law.

  18. HGG Says:

    “where are the candidates for those who are not as progressive as Obama, but who do not want to go back to the “good ole days??” Where are the centrist candidates??”

    No offense Mindy, but only an American could call Obama a “progressive” :D

    For the rest of the world, someone like Obama would be a center-right candidate.

    But if he’s not conservative enough, and someone like Santorum is too much, you could try with Romney.

    (P.D. As I wrote this, Romney was declared winner of the Michigan primary, so he got both Arizona and Michigan and he, despite Conservatives trying a new flavor each week, will be the Republican contender in the coming elections, so you’ll get your chance to vote for him)

  19. NurAlia Says:

    @black infidel.

    I live in Malaysia,and I saw the photograph of the woman’s tatoo. Personally, I would not get tatooed, but if I did, I would not disrespect someone else’s religion by using thier symbols.

    I think here, our culture is different. We, like Americans are trying to manaage a nation where diversity is seen as strength. In Malaysia, except for radical forms of other religions (like Christians who pass handbills on the streets demeaning Islam) Islam is ‘regulated’ by the government. They go into masjids, for example and hear what is being taught…if they hear a hateful message, they admonish those who spread it.

    I am not defending, or supporting the decision not to let the woman perform. I think that The Star is more to blame here, knowing the sensitivity of the culture on these matters, and not paying attention to what they publish.

    I think you want, or expect something bad to happen beside protestors. In Malaysia, we have a voice…no occupier can quiet us in our own country. The woman’s tatoo was not ment to be offensive, nor did she purposely mean to incite anger. I suppose she did it because she wanted to.

    However, the difference in her tatoo, and those who published the cartoons, and those who burn Qur’ans is that they purposely mean to anger. They, on a consistant basis demean, dehumanise, and minimise Islam and Muslims. In Afganistan for example, the Qur’an burners are of the same people that kill innocent people, then dehumanise them as terrorists, or minimise thier deaths as ‘accidents’

    Those apologies sort of lose thier meaning…after a pattern of dehumanisation. I suppose they are apologising for getting caught, more than they are for the pattern of acts they commit.

    So…we cant equate the incident of the singer to the Qur’an burning in Afganistan. Her purpose was not to spread anger…the oppressor’s purpose is to dehumanise a people.

  20. NurAlia Says:

    @mindy

    I, and a lot of people looking at the American election from the outside are asking the same questions.

    We are asking…pretty much…where are the adults?

  21. HGG Says:

    ” In Malaysia, except for radical forms of other religions (like Christians who pass handbills on the streets demeaning Islam”

    Whoa. Handing out pamphlets saying mean things about Muhammed? Those are really RADICAL extremists!!

  22. Zakariya Ali Sher Says:

    Christians, especially recent converts, have incited communal violence in parts of Asia, Africa and elsewhere. So have Muslims, for that matter, and Hindus, Sikhs, etc. In the 70s, there was a sudden influx of evangelical Christians into parts of East Africa where they had previously been unknown and they were exceedingly confrontational with the Muslim majority. About the same time, hardline Wahhabi/Salafi ideologues also came into the Muslim community, inciting many of the same problems. So no, it’s not just about saying bad things about Muhammad (PBUH). I’d point out that many countries ban proselytizing, while still allowing relative freedom of worship. You just can’t harass people.

    That said, I can’t really say I’m a fan of state approving religious orthodoxy, even if I do like Malaysia. If nothing else, as a Shi’a Muslim, it means there are some pretty important theological differences. On a cultural level, restricting the use of the word ‘Allah’ to Muslims is just silly, since any Arabic speaker is well aware that Arab Christians and Jews also use the term. No Arab would see that as disrespectful to Islam, or competing. It’s just a fact. That said, those are relatively small quibbles. It does more to illustrate why the separation of Church and State is preferable in my opinion.

    In Malaysia’s defense, I might also point out that only about half the population is Muslim in the first place. Almost half the population is foreign, mostly Chinese and Tamil, and they are overwhelmingly Hindu, Christian, Buddhist or even Atheist. Yet Malaysia has very few problems with everyone living in peace. Indeed, Malaysia enjoys wealth and prosperity, rivaling many nations in the ‘west.’ That raises quite a few issues with morons such as Merkel, who claimed ‘multiculturalism failed,’ a statement which I have so much to say.

  23. Truth Seeker Says:

    Islam is a contagious mental illness.It is best to keep it away from the American soil and the Muslims are the carriers.

  24. Just Stopping By Says:

    “Islam is a contagious mental illness.It is best to keep it away from the American soil …” And that’s why we have to allow for tall, multi-story mosques, like a few blocks from Ground Zero, right?

  25. TheBig-T Says:

    @ sh*tseeker
    you are the mental illness
    seek some help man

  26. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Truth Seeker

    Yet again, you just ignore the story/video in question and you just bash Muslims. You don’t have any arguments, just silly bigoted assertions at best. Tell me Truth Seeker, what do you think about all the evil being done in the name of Christianity or Judaism or even Hinduism? Do fanatics in other religions not exist, or do you simply not care about them?

    Now I know he’s not a violent fanatic, but what do you think of Rick Santorum basically coming out and saying that Christianity, ought to be the official religion of the United States? Tell “Truth Seeker,” would you have a problem with that if he were calling for any other religion to be the official religion of the United States? Keep in mind that I’m not just talking about Islam. I’m assuming your a Christian, but if I’m wrong please let me know. However, if you are not, why do you not take issue with what Santorum has said?

  27. Zakariya Ali Sher Says:

    Or even just a different school of Christianity. I wonder how “Truth” Seeker and his kind would react if we had a candidate who was a strict Old Calendar Orthodox Christian who insisted on abandoning the Gregorian calendar that most Catholics and Protestants adhere to.

  28. Susanna Says:

    First of all, lets look at what is actually in the Constitution. The 1st Amendment says, ” Congress shall make no law respecting the

  29. Sir David ( Illuminati membership number 5:32) Warning Contains Irony Says:

    Susanna you said
    First of all, lets look at what is actually in the Constitution. The 1st Amendment says, ” Congress shall make no law respecting the……

    One assumes the internet connection fell apart at this point or you pressed the submit comment by accident .
    Just for a moment please Susanna remember that some of us are not from the USA and know not much about the constitution of that country . Could you tell us what the constitution was origionally and why it was amended ?

  30. Susanna Says:

    establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech….” I’ve gone thru the whole Constitution and there is nothing in it about separation of church and state being absolute. Nor can you get a sense of total separation in the 1st Amendment.

    What Santorum is saying here is fundamentally right in the sense that while there is no church state, religion can play a part in making moral decisions. Ever since secular humanism made its way into our lives, the idea of taking God out of everything we do in our lives has led to the moral decay of our country. The 1st Amendment was to ensure that the government stayed out of the lives of the churches. People were free to practice their religion and the free speech part that follows ( and it follows for a reason) people had the right to express their beliefs in public.

    It is not unconstitutional to have a Bible in a public school or have Bible study after school or during recess. But prayer is unconstitutional because it promotes a specific ideology. Now this is supposedly because of separation of church and state. Which in itself is unconstitutional as to the total freedom to practice your religion and be free to speak about it.

    The intrusion of the government has taken that away from us in the public arena. Why? Because it may offend someone. That is political correctness which is the basis for stifling the very right freedom of speech.

  31. mindy1 Says:

    @HGG, no offense taken, I just want to vote for someone I can feel comfortable with, and that is getting difficult.

  32. TomS Says:

    Rick Santorum literally believes that Satan is attacking America and is systematically destroying the country’s main institutions. Yes, literally.

    Here’s what he said (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/22/rick-santorum-satan-_n_1293658.html):

    “Satan has his sights on the United States of America!”

    “Satan is attacking the great institutions of America, using those great vices of pride, vanity, and sensuality as the root to attack all of the strong plants that has so deeply rooted in the American tradition.”

    “This is a spiritual war. And the Father of Lies has his sights on what you would think the Father of Lies would have his sights on: a good, decent, powerful, influential country – the United States of America. If you were Satan, who would you attack in this day and age? There is no one else to go after other than the United States and that has been the case now for almost 200 years, once America’s preeminence was sown by our great Founding Fathers.”

    Santorum is sticking by his claims from 2008 after video footage recently resurfaced.

  33. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Susanna

    Who taught you about the meaning of the first amendment, because so much of that statement is simply wrong. The Separation of Church and State does not exist because of political correctness and fear of offending non Christians. Read what the founding fathers actually wrote about it, and not from some religious right pseudo historian like David Barton.

    The Rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party: Separation of Church and State
    http://www.theocracywatch.org/separation_church_state2.htm

    Quotations that Support the Separation of State and Church (1993)
    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ed_buckner/quotations.html

    I also know of some great Youtube videos on the subject.

    Constitution Lecture 9: Separation of Church and State
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWBG8byqqUI&feature=channel_video_title

    The Treaty of Tripoli

  34. Zakariya Ali Sher Says:

    @ Susanna:

    There is nothing unconstitutional about having a Bible in the school library, or allowing students to read theirs. Nor is their anything unconstitutional about letting people pray freely. There is nothing unconstitutional about having Qurans, Torahs, Vedas, Upanishads or Eddas in the school library either, or allowing Muslim students to make namaz, Jewish students to refuse non-kosher meals, and Wiccan (or Satanist) students to wear pentagrams.

    What IS unconstitutional is when you force those practices upon another subject, or grant state approval to any particular religion or denomination. The schools CANNOT make people pray. The schools CANNOT endorse a particular denomination or give official support to, say, the Catholics. And that goes for all forms of government. The President cannot make this a Catholic country, or a Protestant country, or a Muslim country. America is simply too damned diverse for any single denomination to ever be imposed upon us, and that is a good thing.

    It’s more than a simple matter of ‘being offended.’ I’m in a minority. I, frankly, don’t care that the vast majority of Americans, and the vast majority of both Muslims and Arabs, do not share my particular views. I do not need the approval of the President, or Congress, or whomever to validate my own beliefs. However, if the President chose to recognize a particular religion, that would grant it special privileges the rest of us do not enjoy. Why should I have my tax dollars go to funding a church I don’t belief in, or spreading it’s message? Should Protestants have to pay to build a Catholic Church? Should Jews have to pay to support Hindus, who make visual representations of God? Should Hindus fund Buddhism and Jainism, both of which were founded as a reaction against Hinduism in many ways? And what of Atheists? Should they have to pay for religions they don’t believe in?

    Nobody is stopping YOU or anyone else from expressing your beliefs in public. In fact, you seem quite adamant about your anti-Muslim prejudices. I’m assuming the secret police haven’t come to arrest you, so you are obviously enjoying your freedoms. And nobody is stopping the President, Vice-President, Secretary of State, Congressmen, Senators, Governors and Mayors from believing whatever they want either, or from going to religious services. They cannot, however, impose that upon the rest of us. Nor can they declare that such and such is the ‘state religion,’ or that there is any ‘official’ form of it in America. That seems to be a damned hard concept for so many conservatives to understand.

  35. Just Stopping By Says:

    @Susanna:

    I find your arguments interesting, but I am not sure where they lead. Would you approve or disapprove of each of the following:
    1a. Teacher-led Christian prayers in pubic schools.
    1b. Teacher-led Muslim/Islamic prayers in public schools.
    2a. Student-led Christian prayers in public schools at assemblies, etc.
    2b. Student-led Muslim/Islamic prayers in public schools at assemblies, etc.

    Thanks!

  36. Zakariya Ali Sher Says:

    Hahaha… I love these claims. If I were Satan, I wouldn’t need to do anything, because humans already possess both the inclination and the will to lead themselves astray. Most especially in wealthy, stable western countries. Don’t believe me? The murderers who carried out the Haditha massacre were let off with mere slaps on the wrist, released into the general population with more of a sense of empowerment than ever. Blackwater (now XE) mercenaries were given blanket immunity in Iraq, including shooting the President’s bodyguard unprovoked on Christmas eve. These people have a sense of entitlement, and they’ve gotten away with killing before. I can only imagine that many will repeat crimes here, only with better lawyers this time…

  37. Truth Seeker Says:

    @Critical Gragon1177:If the Muslim Majority countries could adopt Islam as the official religion,then what is wrong with Santrorum aqsking Christianty to be the official faith in America.After all Jesus brought the message of LOVE and PEACE contrary to Mohammad who preached HATE and WAR against Kafirs?Which one would you prefer if you are normal human being?

  38. eslaporte Says:

    @ CriticalDragon1177

    Hey – that’s cool. I have not seen this book, but “Taliban” is what this ilk is…they want to impose religious laws over the Constitution, which religious laws over human rights and personal autonomy.

  39. Zakariya Ali Sher Says:

    @ “Truth” Seeker:

    Not ALL Muslim majority countries have adopted Islam as the official faith, and even if they had, so what? The Founding Fathers were well aware of the dangers of imposing a state religion. Plenty of other countries do recognize Christianity as the ‘official’ faith. Greece is officially Orthodox, Norway is officially Lutheran, and even England is officially Anglican (though most Englishmen don’t really give it much thought to be fair). Italy, Argentina, Spain, El Salvador, Peru, Dominican Republic and several other countries all recognize the Catholic Church as playing a role int he state to some degree or another…

    Is that what you want “Truth” Seeker? The state to officially endorse your particular brand of Christianity? Catholics represent the single largest denomination in this country, so if we had a “state religion,” I’m guessing the Roman Catholics would win out. Are you sure you’d want to swear fealty to the Vatican?

    Since you obviously don’t care how we Muslims feel, what about the rest of America. Do you think the Jews would be happy having Christianity imposed on them, and their children?

  40. Susanna Says:

    @ CriticalDragon1177

    Maybe you should also look at: YouTube: A Nation Founded on the Christian Faith Part 3 and Part 4- Separation of Church and state. I can’t do the links right now.

    @ Just Stopping By

    Since the Supreme Courts decision to strike down prayer in public school, the answer to all the above is no. Teachers and students could not lead prayer in the classroom or assembly in school. That is why our local high school graduations and assemblies are held outside of school in private settings.

    I grew up in the era of school prayer. In my class there were Catholics, Protestants and Jewish. The teacher read from the Bible- always from Psalms and Proverbs, and we said the Our Father. No one and I mean no one ever had a problem with it. At the time, the Protestant Lord’s prayer was said. As a Catholic,I just did not say the ending. My dear Jewish friend would always bow his head but he did not feel offended because we always had Old Testament readings. Actually, it lead us to talk about our faiths and try to understand them.

  41. Just Stopping By Says:

    @Zakariya Ali Sher: You have made a number of excellent points here. But, surely you recognize the futility of appealing to some concern for Jews on the part of “Truth Seeker” given various of his comments about Jews on other threads.

    It may be selfish of me, but since he’s been ranting about Muslims, he’s yours for now; we don’t want anything to do with him! (Actually, I’d be happy to try to help you get some sense into him if I thought that were possible…)

  42. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Truth Seeker

    responding to me you wrote,
    ————————————————————————–
    If the Muslim Majority countries could adopt Islam as the official religion,then what is wrong with Santrorum aqsking Christianty to be the official faith in America.After all Jesus brought the message of LOVE and PEACE contrary to Mohammad who preached HATE and WAR against Kafirs?Which one would you prefer if you are normal human being?
    ————————————————————————–

    I would prefer that no religion be the official religion of the United States, thank you very much. I don’t think we should have one, period. Theocracy of any kind is incompatible with human liberty, regardless of weather its a Muslim or Christian theocracy or theocracy of any kind for that matter. Just because Muslim majority countries often adopt Islam as the official state religion doesn’t mean that the US should adopt Christianity as the official state religion. I would in fact prefer that countries like Afghanistan and even Saudi Arabia be secular, because Muslim regimes often enforce the harshest interpretations of Islamic law. However the same is true for Christian theocracies. We have the separation of Church and State in America for A reason, and like I told Susana earlier, its not to keep non Christians from being offended.

    Also, if Muhammad was so incredibly violent and intolerant, and a large majority of Muslims around the world tend to follow his example literally and consistently, can you please explain this?

    Besa: Muslims Who Saved Jews in World War II
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y61RAP4joWU&feature=channel_video_title

    Muslim Heroes of the Holocaust – Robert Satloff
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GargamelGold?feature=mhee#p/c/8075B60F0F01769C/11/BmEw5M-xK64

    And this?

    A Lesson in Respect
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsUY2zgOjjA&feature=channel_video_title

    and this?

    Injustice Cannot Defeat Injustice
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IofpsHOosE&feature=channel_video_title

    Muslims Condemn Terrorism
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t0yRPGDNa4&feature=channel_video_title

    and finally how about this video that was featured here on Loon Watch that you commented on, but apparently did not watch.

    The Imam and the Pastor – Nigeria, January 2008

  43. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Eslaporte

    Responding to what I wrote about the American Taliban book, you wrote,
    —————————————————————————–
    Hey – that’s cool. I have not seen this book, but “Taliban” is what this ilk is…they want to impose religious laws over the Constitution, which religious laws over human rights and personal autonomy.
    —————————————————————————–

    You’re welcome. I hope you enjoy reading it. I think I’ll either buy it, or check it out of the library.

  44. Saladin Says:

    I do not know what you guys are talking how can people like Rick Santorum with his Guslim friend be racist LOL

    A Gay Muslim Defends Rick Santorum against Bigotry Accusations

  45. Just Stopping By Says:

    @Susanna: Thanks for your response, but I may not have been clear enough in my question. If you could either amend or have the Constitution interpreted as you think it should be read, would you approve of any of those types of prayers (and if so, which)?

    Thanks.

  46. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Susanna

    Responding to my last reply to you, you wrote,
    —————————————————————————
    Maybe you should also look at: YouTube: A Nation Founded on the Christian Faith Part 3 and Part 4- Separation of Church and state. I can’t do the links right now.
    —————————————————————————

    America, was not intended as a Christian nation by the founders. That is a myth.

    Responding to Just Stopping By, you wrote,
    —————————————————————————
    Since the Supreme Courts decision to strike down prayer in public school, the answer to all the above is no. Teachers and students could not lead prayer in the classroom or assembly in school. That is why our local high school graduations and assemblies are held outside of school in private settings.

    I grew up in the era of school prayer. In my class there were Catholics, Protestants and Jewish. The teacher read from the Bible- always from Psalms and Proverbs, and we said the Our Father. No one and I mean no one ever had a problem with it. At the time, the Protestant Lord’s prayer was said. As a Catholic,I just did not say the ending. My dear Jewish friend would always bow his head but he did not feel offended because we always had Old Testament readings. Actually, it lead us to talk about our faiths and try to understand them.
    —————————————————————————

    Why should teachers in public school be allowed to lead students in prayer? Its a school not a church, and the government should remain neutral on religious matters. Even if in some instances, it has lead to students trying to understand each others faiths, and get along better, as you claim, it has often lead to conflict division instead.

    The role of the united States government is not to promote any religion, but to protect religious freedom, so it should not endorse any. Also, its not true that you can’t pray in public schools. You just can’t have things like teachers leading their class in prayer. You can pray yourself, on your own, without anyone leading you in prayer. The teachers and the administration don’t have to be involved.

  47. Solid Snake Says:

    @Saladin

    WOW! That pretty much covers all the bases! Please tell me he’s black! A black gay Muslim defending santorum! THERE’S NO WAY HE COULD BE A BIGOT! LOOK WHOS DEFENDING HIM Lmao!!

  48. Solid Snake Says:

    @Zakaryia Ali Sher

    “”"Hahaha… I love these claims. If I were Satan, I wouldn’t need to do anything, because humans already possess both the inclination and the will to lead themselves astray. Most especially in wealthy, stable western countries. Don’t believe me? The murderers who carried out the Haditha massacre were let off with mere slaps on the wrist, released into the general population with more of a sense of empowerment than ever. Blackwater (now XE) mercenaries were given blanket immunity in Iraq, including shooting the President’s bodyguard unprovoked on Christmas eve. These people have a sense of entitlement, and they’ve gotten away with killing before. I can only imagine that many will repeat crimes here, only with better lawyers this time”"”"

    And that is why I have lost all respect for the US military and anyone who scolds me for not supporting the Military. I stand by my position that the current Military is just a glorified Legion of Barbarians with more sophisticated weapons and uniforms. A ‘patriot’ on another thread was offended by my statement claiming that all the bad things were just isolated incidents. The reason people can sit there and attempt to rationalize such horrors committed by vicious barbarians is because they have never experienced or were exposed to any violence of that magnitude. So they comfortably sit on their couches being ‘patriotic’.

    It is undeniable. The barbarians of old have sacked two countries, Afghanistan and Iraq in Mesopotamia. They are conducting drone attacks on civilians and workers that are akin to raiding parties that barbarians would form, they would go into a village and destroy everything. The barbarians have formed encampments surrounding Persia and are foaming at the mouth for a chance to slaughter all the inhabitants.
    To showcase their affinity for killing and to show how efficient they are at murder follow this link

    http://www.zpub.com/un/un-bm.html
    THE HIGHWAY OF DEATH:” The “highways of death” are the two Kuwaiti roadways, littered with remains of 2,000 mangled Iraqi military vehicles, and the charred and dismembered bodies of tens of thousands of Iraqi soldiers, who were withdrawing from Kuwait on February 26th and 27th 1991 in compliance with UN resolutions. U.S. planes trapped the long convoys by disabling vehicles in the front, and at the rear, and then pounded the resulting traffic jams for hours. “It was like shooting fish in a barrel,” said one U.S. pilot ” On the inland highway to Basra is mile after mile of burned, smashed, shattered vehicles of every description – tanks, armored cars, trucks, autos, fire trucks, according to the March 18, 1991, Time magazine. On the sixty miles of coastal highway, Iraqi military units sit in gruesome repose, scorched skeletons of vehicles and men alike, black and awful under the sun, says the Los Angeles Times of March 11, 1991. While 450 people survived the inland road bombing to surrender, this was not the case with the 60 miles of the coastal road. There for 60 miles every vehicle was strafed or bombed, every windshield is shattered, every tank is burned, every truck is riddled with shell fragments. No survivors are known or likely. The cabs of trucks were bombed so much that they were pushed into the ground, and it’s impossible to see if they contain drivers or not. Windshields were melted away, and huge tanks were reduced to shrapnel. “Even in Vietnam I didn’t see anything like this. It’s pathetic,” said Major Bob Nugent, an Army intelligence officer. This one-sided carnage, this racist mass murder of Arab people, occurred while White House spokesman Marlin Fitzwater promised that the U.S. and its coalition partners would not attack Iraqi forces leaving Kuwait. This is surely one of the most heinous war crimes in contemporary history. ”

    The barbarians live by the rule of ‘take no prisoners, show no mercy’, chasing away a defeated enemy and murdering them.

    Its amazing to see how the propagandists have taken the word ‘civilized’ and gave it the opposite meaning.

    And to top it all off the citizens have been indoctrinated and brainwashed to support all of this. These barbarians have marketed 9/11 (yes they have exploited it like a marketing campaign) as “The Greatest Tragedy Known To Man Second Only To The Holocaust” while far more tragic events have occurred and even at the very hands of these barbarians like the obliteration of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    9/11 was tragic, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were tragic, every death of an innocent in the Mid East is tragic but not according to The Barbarians of Today.

    They should call it The U.S Legion of Barbarians with Obama the Hun as the leader…..

    sorry i ranted but I am sick and tired of all the killing….

  49. corey Says:

    anybody ever seen this from funny or die http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnfudeHfuy8 kinda wish republican debates were actually like this.

  50. Susanna Says:

    @CriticalDragon1177

    If you would look at those Youtube videos it will give you the other side of the coin or do you prefer to be biased?

    As to the second part, I’m not sure what your getting at there. It has been deemed by the Supreme Court that prayer in school is violates the separation of Church and State because schools are federally funded, deemed part of the state. Up until that decision prayer in school was part of our education. But it is true that you can pray by yourself, but publicly no.

    @ Just Stopping By

    The answer is still the same. No to all the points. It was another time and people were freer and understood the need for guidance from their Creator.

  51. Believing Atheist Says:

    I got a tip for LW check this out and report it if you want to. It’s about Kamal Saleem:

    Latest Conspiracy Theory: Muslims Altering US Dollars to Read ‘In Allah We Trust’
    Submitted by Brian Tashman on Wed, 02/29/2012 – 12:05pm
    Self-proclaimed “ex-terrorist” Kamal Saleem tells quite a story about his life, claiming that he worked for late Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi, Hamas, the Palestine Liberation Organization, and fought with Al Qaeda in Tora Bora, all before coming to the United States in order to carry out the “culture jihad.” Sure his entire story is a fabrication, but that hasn’t stopped this descendent of the imaginary “Grand Wazir of Islam” from getting speaking gigs across the country where he criticizes Islam and warns of impending Sharia law in the United States.

    Yesterday, Saleem sat down again with fellow anti-Muslim activists Jerry Boykin and Rick Joyner on Prophetic Perspectives where he warned that as part of the effort of Muslim-Americans to usher in an Islamic theocracy, they are replacing the words “In God We Trust” on the dollar with “In Allah We Trust”:

    Watch: There is a video on the site.

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/latest-conspiracy-theory-muslims-altering-us-dollars-read-allah-we-trust

  52. JD Says:

    Senators Unite On Striking Iran, But Can’t Agree On Keeping U.S. Afloat

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/29/iran-nuclear-program-senators-obama_n_1310934.html?

    WASHINGTON — If President Barack Obama feels the need to launch a military strike against Iran’s nuclear program, Congress will back him, a group of senators declared Wednesday.

    That pledge came along with the unveiling of a resolution on Capitol Hill that appeared designed to pressure Obama into taking a tougher stance on Iran, and to foreclose any option of letting Iran achieve an atomic weapon.

    If Iran were on the verge of building a bomb, the resolution would seem to require that the administration destroy it, but Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), the chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, said it was more of a show of support for such actions.

    “This resolution is not an authorization to use military force,” Lieberman said. “But in opposing containment, it certainly is, I would think, sending a message to President Obama that if he decides as commander-in-chief that at any point that a military strike against Iran’s nuclear weapons facility is necessary in the national security interest of the United States, then he can expect broad bipartisan support from the United States Congress.”

    Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), one of 32 co-sponsors on the heavily bipartisan measure, argued that containing Iran was not an option when leaders of the country have insisted Israel be wiped out, when it’s building a nuclear program under a mountain that looks more military based than civilian, and when the nation is willing to suffer sanctions to keep its atomic program.

    “We’re not going to contain people like that, we’re going to stop them,” said Graham, although he added that his first choice to curtail the regime was still sanctions.

    Both senators argued that sanctions would be more effective if it was clear America is ready to strike, and the proposed resolution shows that.

    “It is saying we will not accept a nuclear-armed Iran because they cannot be contained,” Graham said. “They will either share the material with terrorists, is the likelihood, or for sure, create nuclear proliferation throughout the Middle East.”

    “So we’re standing with the president, to say that’s not an acceptable result,” Graham added. “I think sanctions can still work, but they will only work if the Iranians believe the military option is on the table.”

  53. Black Infidel Says:

    Seems the Christians tend to be the anti-Americans.

  54. Saleh Says:

    Dear Loonwatch editors/ writers

    i saw this and thought that it might be of some relevance to 2012 elections etc.

    http://www.thenation.com/article/166481/newts-last-prayer-christian-dominionists-go-gingrich

  55. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Believing Atheist

    Someone should ask Kamal Saleem to show us one of those dollar bills that says in Allah We Trust on it. It kind of makes you wonder if he’s competing with Geller for the title of biggest loon. Next he’s going to say that Dianos is really Osama bin Ladin. : )

  56. Christian-friend Says:

    Any Iranian out there that felt Ahmadinejad was using religion to weasel his way into office? I am starting to to feel the same way with Santorum

  57. Reynardine Says:

    Dragon: It’s Monopoly money. You can move from Marvin Gardens to Park Place.

  58. Believing Atheist Says:

    Radical Islam while it is a problem is not really that big of a threat within America. My belief is reconfirmed by something I read today in the Chicago Tribune:

    The Mosque Study 2011 survey shows that the number of U.S. mosques is growing fast and Muslims are more mainstream. This is despite a backlash after the militant attacks on New York and Washington onSeptember 11, 2001, and suspicion about militant Islam, the authors of the study by and sponsors said.

    “The Muslim community in America is growing, vibrant, and becoming more and more a part of the American landscape,” Ihsan Bagby, one of the authors, told a news conference.

    “9/11 has not detracted, has not been an obstacle in the growth of the Muslim community.”

    The survey showed that 87 percent of the mosque leaders disagreed with the survey statement that “radicalism and extremism is increasing among Muslim youth — in their own experience.”

    Only 25 percent of leaders last year believed that American society was hostile to Islam. In 2000 54 percent agreed that U.S. Society was hostile to Islam.

    More than 98 percent of mosque leaders agreed that Muslims should be involved in American institutions, and 91 percent agreed that Muslims should be involved in politics.
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-religion-mosques-surveytre81s2cg-20120229,0,2454741.story

  59. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Reynardine

    You mean Loonopoly money! LOL!

  60. mindy1 Says:

    @Believingatheist that is good to see :D

  61. Black Infidel Says:

    Not many people are aware of Christian Reconstruction, Dominionism and Dominion Theology. Those 3 are the real threat to the US. I’ve just watch the video called “The Rise of Dominionism” it mention Rick Santorum. Rick Santorum is indeed a Dominionist.

  62. Black Infidel Says:

    If your against the separation of church and state, US Constitution, Bill of Rights etc. etc. you are a Dominionist and a threat to the American way. No ifs, ands nor buts about it.

  63. Saladin Says:

    @Solid Snake

    “WOW! That pretty much covers all the bases! Please tell me he’s black! A black gay Muslim defending santorum! THERE’S NO WAY HE COULD BE A BIGOT! LOOK WHOS DEFENDING HIM Lmao!!”

    It gets better than that I think he is also mixed with Latino and Black I mean how can a person with a Latino/Black/Gay/Muslim friend ever be a bigot I think LoonWatch should reconsider their stance on him LOL

  64. Lo Says:

    Why are radical Muslims called ‘Islamists’ when radical Christians are not ‘Christianist’? Even radical Jews are not called ‘Jewist’ (they are more likely referred to as ‘Kahanists’). I’d like to point out the bitter fact that even Loonwatch has a tag of ‘Islamist’. How would Americans like it if organisations like SIOA and idiots like George Bush are called Americanists?

  65. Truth man Says:

    this article/garibaldi FACT-FREE article is such a sham/buffoon..HE FIRST SAYS THAT “separation of Church and state” ARE AT RISK IF THE “evil”"right wing” christians win the elections, but he fails to admit that it is only in christian countries that secularism exists in its purest form, most honest and effective form, THANKS to the teachings of the christian churches-”Give to God what belongs to God, and to ceasar what belongs to ceasar!”-JESUS CHRIST.he then carries on with his manipulative warped logic waring that considering “america2 as a “christain nation” is somehow “offensive,false, evil and dangerous”?!??!!WTF..?!?? buit when muslim imans, sheiks consider christianity (along with christians anmd all non-muslims)”evil”,”shirk2″impure2″sinful2 and destined to be destroyed by muslims, alonmg with everything that came out from christianity that includesdemocracy, human rights, freedom of expression..secularism, that IS NOT a threat to the constitution, neither is the sharia that totally contradicts all american values and rights to the core!Garibaldi..leftys, pleeease..wake up and smell the smoke.what are you doing to mankind, to maerica and to yourselves? you are in bed with satan-islam!!yopu contrdict yourselves in the worst way possible.ther is nothing rightful, progressive, liberal, humansit about deffendinf barbarism, violence, never-ending jihad/wars, opression of wimen and non-muslims, destroying mankind!

  66. Just Stopping By Says:

    All: If you liked this article, you may enjoy Reza Aslan’s quiz, “Who said it: Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei or U.S. Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum?”
    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/02/29/grand_ayatollah_or_grand_old_party?page=0,0

  67. CriticalDragon1177 Says:

    @Just Stopping By

    Thanks. That was interesting.

  68. Franczeska Says:

    @”Truth man” Please let us all know the results of that upcoming drug-test you appear to have been cramming so hard for.

  69. Brie Says:

    The Catholic church has a history of not only getting involved in government, but running the government, which is one of the reasons our founders harbored anti-catholic sentiments sadly and the separation of church and state was so important, to the point that catholics were not allowed to vote or even hold office in many states during Americas early years. The Catholic church’s atrocities and violation of rights in controlling the state are a lesson in history as to why separation of church and state is vital to a free society. As to the enlightenment, let us not forget history as to why people left the catholic church in droves. It started with Martin Luther, a man who the Catholic church tried to kill, and who had to be hidden away for years due to the catholic run state’s threat to his life because he held differing views of the Bible. Now during his isolation he translated the New Testament into German, a language people could read. The Catholic church would not translate the bible into a language of the people therefore effectively preventing them from reading the Bible themselves and therefore not able to challenge false doctrines. The enlightenment was due to the use of printing presses and people reading the Bible for themselves and therefore leaving the catholic church for Protestant denominations, people did not become less religious, just less Catholic. It is a shame to look at Catholic dominion before the enlightenment as something to be praised, it was nothing more than withholding the word of God from the common man, something Martin Luther put an end to, and without the reformation which led to the enlightenment even Catholics wouldn’t have a copy of the bible today.

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