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Debate: “Islam’s War On Christianity”

TVO_Islam_Christianity

TVO discussion on Islamophobe Michael Coren’s ridiculous new book, “Hatred: Islam’s War On Christianity.” Coren was supported by contributor to the Toronto Sun, Farzana Hassan and opposed by Muslim scholars Mohammed Fadel and Imam Shabir Ally.

At times the discussion is infuriating because of Coren’s attempts to cut-off the other panelists but overall interesting with quite some important nuanced points and facts brought up by Fadel and Ally.

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  • Friend of Bosnia

    Kataro whatever is just an evil fool like those fools of “Living Marxism” who through their denial of the Srebrenica genocide made themselves accomplices and useful idiots of the Greater Serb anti-Bosniak genocidal project.

  • Kataro Quasinzki

    Basic English. If you post a link critical of A; you response will be in the form of: “You criticize the plural A as if….” See?

    Nice to see you spawned some fresh tangents to accompany your straw man. 🙂

    You mean like the straw man of you “never” criticizing Tito; how’s your record of past political critique is relevant here? Not to mention that the topic – of all the ones possible – is Yugoslavia? Stop inverting; it’s unseemly 🙂

  • Friend of Bosnia

    You poor deluded commie pinko. All you orphaned marxists have achieved is make yourselves useful idiots for the Greater Serorthodox genocidal fascists.
    1. The West defeated communism? So what, communism is morally. politically and econnomically BANKRUPT. Also Toto’s variant. It died with hi,m and liek him it will never come back. Instead of admitting it you constantly babble how great it was. It stood on clay feet from the start and it was only a matter of time until it came crashing down. Besides that it’s a totalitarian murderous ideology (Josef Stalin anyone? The Berlin Wall, ha? Or do you actually believe it was an “antifascist protection fence”? Then any further discussion with you is senseless!)
    2. The Serb genocidal anti-Bosniak project dates back to 1804 and its aims and objectives are the same of Ferdinand and Isabella, Charles V. Philip II and Philip III which were to rid Spain of Muslims in the 16th century. Exactly the same as teh Serbs have always wanted. There is no difference whatsoever, only in its way of execution. Milosevic just made use of it to maintain himself in power. Now since a majority if Serbs have in their hearts genocidal supremacist ideas no Serb government dared go against the Greater Serb project. Zoran Djindjic tried to – and was murdered. All others before and after him continue to pursue it, in some way or another.
    Nothing you have said exonerates the Serbs in any way from the genocide they committed against Bosniaks and Kosovars.
    I don’t care what your ideological and political ideals are. If you are on the cetniks’ side then you are a cetnik, no matter how “non-ethnocentrist” and “secular” you present yourself. The Serb policies vis-a-vis the Bosniak people can be only qualified as: evil, hostile , genocide. Who tries to justify them in any which ever way as you do, is evil. End of line. What would be the only aceptable answer is a sincere apology to the Bosniak people. You don’t want to give them that.
    So “history did not begin in 1992”, eh? Well, as far as I am concerned, what happened before my year of birth does not concern me. Otherwise, you claim, anyone can slap me in the face because, say, my grandfather once slapped his grandfather in the face; Sons must pay for their fathers’ sins, eh?
    Conclusion: You are an enemy of Bosnia and that’s that. You should be glad that we don’t meet face to face.

  • Kataro Quasinzki

    If it weren’t to Tito – flawed as he was – Yugoslavia would’ve fared like Indonesia under Suharto or the Congo under Sese Seko. You critcize left-wing leaders as if all them existed in ideal condition. No foreign right-wing parties working to overthrow them or destabilize their countries. Same can be said about Robert Mugabe now

  • Kataro Quasinzki

    Getting your “facts” from Foreign Affairs about Yugoslavia is like getting your facts about Palestine from Maariv. Not to mention that Aleksa Djilas is the Serbian Ari Shavit, or worse, Thomas Friedman.

  • Kataro Quasinzki

    You can’t accuse the Bosnian side of committing genocide nor of being the attacker but it has been conclusively proved that the Serb side did both. That some people always try to dispute this only shows they are not just evil but incredibly stupid as well.

    Yugoslavia was breaking up – thanks to your anti-leftism; you did no one a favor except the West’s right-wing rulers – and Serbs were trying to minimize damage by taking control of where they make a majority – not ideal but there was no time to be flawless and immaculate.

    The “lisbon agreemnt” was worthless from the start

    Because it supported a Swiss-like canton system; that you’re against for some reason? (and keep in mind not to confuse the volatile conditions back then with the agreement itself).

    The Serbs had made it clear beforehand they would not abide by it

    Once again. The political instability was great; Serbs were watching the larger political unit they once belonged to disintegrating to become states supported and armed by different anti-Yugoslavian sides (The EU and America)

    It would have meant the forceful displacement of 2 milion people anyway, because Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats did not have defined areas only of their own but were interspersed

    Yugoslavia was a left-leaning, secular and multiethnic union; (remember Mlada Bosna? He was anti-monarchial and pro-Yugoslavian, unless you side with the Austro-Hungarians) but not anymore thanks to your – forgotten now – “services” to the US State Department.

    Not to mention that Balkan borders were demarcated by the Ottomans and colonial Europeans to ensure their instability and dependence (just like Africa and West Asia) and that caused so much upheaval and disenchantment that later Balkan countries created an alliance with the Hitlerian Germany. In short; history didn’t begin in 1992.

    And calling me “an anti-Bosniak propagandist” while I showed and lent credence to no ethnocentrism whatsoever – check my comment history; it’s not hidden – indicates paranoia from you part, grasping at straws or even maybe you just expect from others what you expect from yourself.

  • richardrichard2013

    have you ever looked in the mirror and asked if you truly love israel? how can bums like you truly love israel when u r waiting for jesus to utter john 8:44 in holocaust /Armageddon in israel? truly i say unto you jesus AINT coming back. EVERY year i predict that jesus WILL not return and i speak the TRUTH.

  • richardrichard2013

    how do you love israel retardo? do you have john 8:44 in mind? do you see that jesus is ATTACKING the jews in john 8:44? do you support israel all the way until jesus does Holocaust number 2 and you will join jesus in calling the jews “worshipers of father of lies”. seriously what kind of love do you have for israel?

  • I agree that there are indeed truths that my coreligionists don’t want to hear, and that has always been the case with any group; a Turkish proverb says that the man who speaks the truth should keep one foot in the stirrup.

    Their purpose here, however, is to disseminate propaganda and lies, not engage in a legitimate discussion of problems within the ummah.
    There are already Muslim human rights orgs working hard on the problems in their respective countries.
    The only reason these scum brought up such things–the ONLY reason–was so they can try to smear Islam. If they gave a hoot they would be helping our fellow Muslims in their respective countries, instead of attacking our faith from inside a cozy first-world country.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    I see that you haven’t read past the first line but just regurgitated in a knee-jerk reaction the usual hypocrite anti-Bosnia propaganda disguised as “anti-imperialism” that I know from such failures as “living Marxism.”
    You can’t accuse the Bosnian side of committing genocide nor of being the attacker but it has been conclusively proved that the Serb side did both. That some people always try to dispute this only skows they are not just evil but incredibly stupid as well.
    Don’t bother to reply, your arguments are as feeble as they can be. I will explain below why for the benefit of the uninitiated:
    The “lisbon agreemnt” was worthless from the start. 1.)The Serbs had made it clear beforehand they would not abide by it 2.) It would have meant the forceful displacement of 2 milion people anyway, because Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats did not have defined areas only of their own but were interspersed. 3.) The Serbs had already started their campaign of ethnic cleansing and genocide.
    Conclusion: it was only a scam, a smoke screen. The whole world knows that and when you invcoke it you clearly take me for stupid, and you insult my intelligence.
    So I view any reference to this scam as a deadly offense and insult.
    If you have the NERVE to answer me back (which I strongly recommend you not to do), don’t EVER mention THAT to me again! Stop taking me for stupid!

    I strive to be humane,
    honest and just, but like 1DrM, I do not suffer fools gladly, and evil fools at
    that. Everybody who comes to this site should know that by now.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    Of course it’s hidden. I have had enough intrusion by anti-Bosniak propagandists. You insult me by asking me to be so foolish as to expose my private life to my enemies.
    Bah, what do I care for those hypocrite leftist nostalgics who just blab the Serb propaganda?
    I know the experiences of those who had to flee the Serb genocidals firsthand, so I don’t need you to peddle me “Your truth”.
    The “Lisbon Agreement “is just a propaganda ploy. The Serbs never had the intention to abide by it anyway. Had it been implemented, millions of
    people would have been forcibly displaced anyway because they were all interspersed and would have ended up on the wrong side of the “border”
    anyway. You hypocrites ALWAYS conveniently “forget ” this. At least the Bosniaks today are not as bad off as the Rohingya or the Uyghurs who have no country of their own.
    That evil simpletons like you alway babble about the false and dishonest “Lisbon Agreement”.
    The Bosniaks DID NOT COMMIT GENOCIDE! None of the Bosniak generals you mentioned. THAT’s the Difference! Yes, in comparison to Ratko Mladic they ARE Platonic Republicans. And what about General Jovan Divjak who is an ethnic Serb but always was on the Bosnian side. Who continues to strive for a Bosnia where no one is discriminated against for his ethnicity or religion. As opposed to the way
    you would have it??? Isn’t he a Platonic Republican?
    The Bosniaks are the attacked. The Serbs are the attacker. Like the Palestinians are the attacked and the Israelis the attacker. Like Poland was the attacked and Nazi Germany the attacker. Like the Union was the attacked and the Confederacy the attacker. The notion that “all are equally guilty”is
    beyond good and evil. Get that in that thick head of yours.
    The Bosniaks, like the Palestinians, have ALL THE RIGHT IN THE WORLD!!!!
    They are the ones who were attacked. Those who attacked tham, a majority of Bosnian Serbs and Croats with ample and open military help from
    Serbia proper and at the instigation of Lord Owen, HAVE FOREFEITED ALL THEIR RIGHTS AND SHOULD BEGONE FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH!!!!

    Or if not they should be made to suffer as the Bosniaks suffer. Their lives should be made so miserable that they’d want to commit suicide. They must be made to PAY for their aggression, and with interests!!!
    Only with those Bosnian non-Muslims who were on the side of the Bosniaks during the war (everybody knows full well the Bosniaks are NOT a monolithic block as theri enemies pretend! all those racist and bigot fools who always blab “Multiculturalism has failed”, what do they want, apartheid and
    segregation? Xenophobia?19th century and medieval ideals of racial and religious purity? I think they do.) and those who express a sincere apology for the crusade of 1992-95, and 1941-45, and forever renounce the use of violence as a means of politics can there be peace. For thosewho still feel superior to Bosniaks because they hate and despise
    Muslims, NOT EVEN THEIR MEMORY SHOULD REMAIN!!!! And also their supporters worldwide! To HELL WITH THEM ALL!
    Don’t bother to reply, I’m not interested in a discussion with the declared enemies of the
    Bosniak people. IF I ever should meet them on the front lines the discussion will be carried out the only way it can, with lead and steel and we will see who the better is. That is, if any of you cowards dares
    show up.
    Don’t come and say you “don’t justify violence aqgainst Boisniaks, BUT…”, or that “certainly horrible crimes were committed BUT…” In Questions of life and death there are no but’s! The Serbs committed genocide against Bosniaks so that they could appropriate the land and the wealth, and the only answer to that question that interests me is YES or NO. Not “but…”, Not “You have to consider Serb history.” I don’t care about history. By that logic
    someone can come and shoot me because my grat-great-great-grandfather slapped his great-great-great-grandfather’s face way back in 1840.
    Right?!?!
    Now since we have got into the subject of history, I can say the Serbs committed genocide against the Bosniaks for the very same reasons the Catholic Kings and the Habsburg Kings exterminated and
    expelled the Spanish Muslims in the 15th and 16th century. That truth is there for everybody to read, in the great works of Spanish and Serb litertaure and historiography, in the case of Serbia from Petar Petrovic Njegos’ “Gorski Vijenac” to Ivo Andric and Dobrica Cosic. The message is always and only “Death to Muslims (‘Turks’)!”
    But you guys always have a very selective view of things. Muslims can never be in the right, right???!?
    Also you insult the whole people of Eastern Europe. Ask the Czechs, Poles, East Germans, Romanians if they’d want back Brezhnev, Honecker Jaruzelski, Ceausecu and what they stood for !! I FOR ONE DO NOT!!!
    Cowardly pro-Greater Serb genocidal anti-Bosniak propagandists, you deserve to be cut to ribbons. But slowly, with a blunt bamboo saw. Redneck zio-Nazi
    anti-Muslim genocidals and self-styled “anti-US imperialist” nostalgics of Stalinism who condone inhumanity and violence when it serves their ideals too.

    DOWN WITH GREATER SERBIA! THE CROSS WILL NEVER CHASE THE CRESCENT OUT OF BOSNIA!!!
    AND DON’T YOU DARE DISPARAGE ABRAHAM LINCOLN! Would you rather have the Confederacy? or maybe slavery right up to the 1920s? Then you could also smear FDR as a warmonger for after all he started the Manhattan Project.
    What do you prefer, Josef Stalin’s way of things. No, don’t answer that, I know you do.

  • Tanveer ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Khan

    Abu Eesa’s facebook post comments.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    I think that Alija Izetbegovic can also be compared to those who founded the “Armia Krajowa” in Poland during WWII.
    Because as we all know he was a bit naive in dtrategic and geopolitical matters, and so in the end Bosnia had, instead of a real army, only something very much like the “Armia Krajowa.” (which btw has been accused of being anti-semitic. Surely parts of it were, but not all of them.)
    There are always such allegations.)
    We all know the “Armia Krajowa” was not very effective in the military sense, and that it was betrayed by the Allies.
    But surely it was better to do something instead of doing nothing, to stand up and fight even if they could only lose, than letting themselves be led like lambs to the slaughter.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    I see you haven’t read my comment past the first line but answered with a knee-jerk outpouring of the usual anti-Bosnia propaganda in the disguise of “anti-imperalism”.
    Because you haven’t addressed ona single one of my statements.
    So I’m not interested in any further discussion with you. Should you attempt it, it’s too bad I can’t send you an electric shock of about 2.000.000 volts to your keeyboard to dissuade you.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    Of course it’s hidden. I have had enough intrusion by anti-Bosniak propagandists. You insult me by asking me to be so foolish as to expose my private life to my enemies.
    Bah, what do I care for those hypocrite leftist nostalgics who just blab the Serb propaganda. Remember “living Marxism” and what became of them?
    I was there, I know the experiences of those who had to flee the Serb genocidals firsthand, so I don’t need you to peddle me “Your truth”.
    The “Lisbon Agreement “is just a propaganda ploy. The Serbs never had the intention to abide by it anyway. Had it nbeen implemented, Millions of peopole would have been forcibly displaced anyway because they were all interspersed and woudl have ended up on teh wrong side of the “border” anyway. You hypocrites ALWAYS conveniently “forget ” this. At least the Bosniaks today are not as bad off as the Rohingya or the Uyghurs. Had they just offered peaceful resistance today there would be only a handful left, and completely at the mercy of their enemies.
    That evil simpletons like you alway babble about the false and dishonest “Lisbon Agreement”.
    And the Bosniaks DID NOT COMMIT GENOCIDE! None of the Bosniak generals you mentioned. Yes, in comparison to Ratko Mladic they ARE Platonic Republicans. And what about General Jovan Divjak who is an ethnic Serb but always was on the Bosnian side. Who continues to strive for a Bosnia where no one is discriminated against for his ethnicity or religion. As you would have it??? Isn’t he a Platonic Republican?
    The Bosniaks are the attacked. The Serbs are the attacker. Like the Palestinians are the attacked and the Israelis the attacker. Like Poland was the attacked and Nazi Germany the attacker. Like the Union was the attacked and the Confederacy the attacker. The notion that “all are equally guilty”is beyond good and evil. Get that in that thick head of yours.
    The Bosniaks, like the Palestinians, have ALL THE RIGHT IN THE WORLD!!!! They are the ones who were attacked. Those who attacked tham, a majority of Bosnian Serbs and Croats with ample and open military help from Serbia proper and at the instigation of Lord Owen, HAVE FOREFEITED ALL THEIR RIGHTS AND SHOULD BEGONE FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH!!!! Or if not they should be made to suffer as the Bosniaks suffer. Their lives shoud be made so miserable that they’d want to commit suicide. They must be made to PAY for their aggression, and with interests!!!
    Only with those Bosnian non-Muslims who were on the side of the Bosniaks (everybody knows full well the Bosniaks are NOT a monolithic block as theri enemies pretend! all those racist and bigot fools who always blab”Multiculturalism has failed”, what do they want, apartheid and segregation? Xenophobia?19th century and medieval ideals of racial and religious purity? I think they do.) and those who express a sincere apology for the crusade of 1992-95, and 1941-45, and forever renounce the use of violence as a means of politics can there be peace. For those who still feel superior to Bosniasks because they hate and despise Muslims, NOT EVEN THEIR MEMORY SHOULD REMAIN!!!! And also their supporters worldwide! To HELL WITH THEM ALL!
    Don’t bother to reply, I’m not interested in a discussion with the declared enemies of the Bosniak people. IF I ever should meet them on the front line the discussion will be carried out the only way it can, with lead and steel and we will see who the better is. That is, if any of you cowards dares show up.
    Don’t come and say you don’t justify violence against Bosniaks, BUT…, or that certainly horrible crimes were committed BUT… In Questions of life and death there are no but’s! The Serbs committed genocide against Bosniaks, and the only answer to that question that interests me is YES or NO. Not “but…, Not “You have to consider Serb history.” I don’t care about history. By that logic someone can come and shoot me because my great-great-great-grandfather slapped his great-great-great-grandfather’s face way back in 1840. Right?!?!
    Now since we have got into the subject of history, I can say the Serbs committed genocide against the Bosniaks for the very same reasons the Catholic Kings and the Habsburg Kings exterminated and expelled the Spanish Muslims in the 15th and 16th century. That truth is there for everybody to read, in the great works of Spanish and Serb litertaure and historiography, in the case of Serbia from Petar Petrovic Njegos’ “Gorski Vijenac” to Ivo Andric and Dobrica Cosic. The message is always and only “Death to Muslims (‘Turks’)!”
    But you guys always have a very selective view of things. Muslims can never be in the right, right???!?
    Also you insult the whole people of Eastern Europe. Ask the Czechs, Poles, East Germans, Romanians if they’d want Brezhnev, Honecker Jaruzelski, Ceausecu and what they stood for back!! I FOR ONE DO NOT!!!
    Cowardly pro-Greater Serb genocidal anti-Bosniak propagandists, you deserve to be cut to ribbons. But slowly, with a blunt bamboo saw. Redneck zio-Nazi anti-Muslim genocidals and self-styled “anti-US imperialist” nostalgics of Stalinism who condone inhumanity and violence when it serves their ideals, the same.

    DOWN WITH GREATER SERBIA! THE CROSS WILL NEVER CHASE THE CRESCENT OUT OF BOSNIA!!!
    AND DON’T YOU DARE DISPARAGE ABRAHAM LINCOLN! Because then you could also smear FDR as a warmonger for after all he started the Manhattan Project. What do you prefer, Josef Stalin’s way of things. No, don’t answer that, I know you do.

  • Guess – BDS

    I know some extremists abuse it. But even way before the ISIS mania started, I did heard people, even some well known folks used it for Zuhdi Jasser, Nawaz Maajid & Tarek Fatah, and those three idiots certainly qualify. But where do you get to meet all this ISIS fan boys? cause all I see so far are people that hate them so much they’re willing to use takfir on their heads, yes, yes, ISIS brought out even “moderate” takfiris 😀

  • Tanveer ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Khan

    ISIS fanboys love to use it.

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