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107 Comments For This Post

1. HGG Says:
   August 31st, 2009 at 6:34 pm

   Spencer, Schlussel and the rest of them may be cold, heartless bigots, drowning in their own prejudices. But I don’t think they are mentally unbalanced.

   Geller is batshit f**king loco. And she’s not even a circus act like Coulter. She’s 100% honest and sincere insanity. And it’s spreading all over the place.

2. oregonjake Says:
   August 31st, 2009 at 7:00 pm

   It is interesting to me that in the entire rant you deliver on Pam Geller, not once do you actually repute her statement with any fact. Yes, she may go off on tangents but if you are doing any kind of expose then it is imperative you counter with facts of sources. You have not done so, you have merely taken an ad hominum attack posture and proved nothing. Stop being the fool and be honorable. Disagree, but don’t attack with nothing to back it up. I am disappointed.

3. SoobyDOO Says:
   August 31st, 2009 at 10:22 pm

   Seems like BOTOX QUEEN has had some chemicals from the last plastic surgery seep into her brain. The sort of hate she dishes on president Obama and on Muslims is so KKK-esque that I actually think it makes her not worth the effort. I mean this was a great and informative piece, but seriously, people like her never make it beyond the closed parameters of their like-minded associates (Read Robert Spencer and Geert Wilders). She is forever destined for the gutter.

4. Benji Says:
   September 1st, 2009 at 3:57 am

   hahaha Atlas Shrugs should properly be renamed Atlas Drugs! That’s so true.

   Maybe she shrugs when she see the drugs?

5. Ibski Says:
   September 1st, 2009 at 5:29 am

   I mean, this stuff is really chauvinistic and racist. Not just a “tad” racist (if there even is such a thing as a “tad racist”), but fulll-blown racism and genuine hatred, the neo-Nazi and Ku Klux Klan kind. It is truly insane.

   Is this modern day Western ideals and values? If so, then it is ideals and values that belong in the trash can.

6. oregonjake Says:
   September 1st, 2009 at 7:10 pm

   Hmmm, the term racist implies a race of people, genetically different and distinct from all others. So just what race is Islam again?
   Stop playing the race card, it only make you look that much more the fool.

7. Elric66 Says:
   September 2nd, 2009 at 6:29 am

   “For the uber-racist Pam Geller, drugs is a connotation for Black and Jihad is a connotation for Muslim; a Black man can only travel to get drugs, and a Muslim country can only offer travelers Jihad.”

   Islam isnt a race and Obama isnt black, he is biracial.

8. Ali Azizi Says:
   September 2nd, 2009 at 10:43 am

   I think Schlussel is mentally imbalanced as well.

   Great write up, I regularly check Ms. Geller’s site for its comedic value. The woman is totally insane.

9. Mooneye Says:
   September 3rd, 2009 at 1:29 pm

   Pamela like her friend Debbie Schlussel is a racist, they both traffic in racist stereotypes. Such as the implication in her sentence that the only reason a Black person would travel to Pakistan is for drugs, and that doesn’t even begin to touch on what they say about Arabs and Palestinians in particular.

   Also to both OregonJake and Elric, race is not necessarily genetic it is also a social construct. It is true that Islamophobia and anti-Muslim is a form of racism in the general sense, as those who are Islamophobes usually are thinking of a specific race when they hit out with their hate against Muslims, and use racialized stereotypes when making bigoted comments against Muslims, like one of the haters who tries to post on this site and goes by the name “Towel head”.

10. Garibaldi Says:
    September 3rd, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    OregonJake,

    You honestly think that Barack Obama being born in America needs facts? That Barack wasn’t the illegitimate son of Malcolm X needs facts? That Barack isn’t an anti-Semite needs facts? That Barack isn’t a Muslim needs facts?

    You are attempting to defend the factless, out of thin air, guilt by association and quite frankly radically crazy Pamela Geller by saying that the burden of proof is on us when in any court of law the burden of proving an accusation is on the accuser.

11. oregonjake Says:
    September 3rd, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    Mooneye, sorry, but I think you really need to stop drinking the kool-aid, and fast. There is no connection between “racist stereotypes” and pure racism. Being a racist does not mean that one has “racist stereotypes” in mind. One can be racist against any race, for any reason, from ideological differences to unadulterated hatred with no thought of stereotypes. Sorry, try again.
    Name a socially constructed race. Your claim is pure conjecture, or maybe a way for you to be comfortable denigrating those with whom you disagree without using any facts. Again, source and name a socially constructed race.
    “…as those who are Islamophobes usually are thinking of a specific race when they hit out with their hate against Muslims, and use racialized stereotypes when making bigoted comments against Muslims.”
    I’m sorry, but how does being an Islamophobe translate to racism again? A phobia is, as the dictionary defines “an unreasonable fear”. There is nothing irrational about the fear of Islam and its definition today. I do not think of a specific race when talking about Islam as ISLAM IS NOT A RACE, PERIOD! And “racialized stereotypes” means nothing, as I will point out again, Islam is not a race. But I will have to assume that these facts will not get in the way of your own opinions.
    Now to you, Garibaldi:
    “You honestly think that Barack Obama being born in America needs facts?(he is an American born, I never questioned that) That Barack wasn’t the illegitimate son of Malcolm X needs facts?(If there is a truth there I want to know.) That Barack isn’t an anti-Semite needs facts?(he is an anti-semite, check your facts and actually read what he has said, many times about Israel) That Barack isn’t a Muslim needs facts?”(he is a Muslim, Islamic sharia law states that when you are born to a Muslim father you are automatically a Muslim, and are considered a Muslim by the tenets, ideology and doctrine of Islam until you die).
    “…the burden of proof is on us when in any court of law the burden of proving an accusation is on the accuser.” Wow! So lets see if we can figure this out. You make the accusations about Ms Geller and then cry foul when I hold you to that statement, yet you clearly state above that proving an accusation is on the accuser. OK, you have proved my point. You are the accuser yet don’t want to be held responsibile for the accusations. I think you need to go back to the dictionary and look up the word, “Hippocrasy”
    Study fundamental Islam. Read the texts which are used by the Ulema. Listen to the words and understand what they mean. And finally, stop using terms like racism, it is beneath you and only shows a lack of intellectual honesty and an ability to think critically.
    There may be moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam as defined today.

    You are attempting to defend the factless, out of thin air, guilt by association and quite frankly radically crazy Pamela Geller by saying that the burden of proof is on us when in any court of law the burden of proving an accusation is on the accuser.

12. Mooneye Says:
    September 3rd, 2009 at 5:51 pm

    OregonJake says,

    “Mooneye, sorry, but I think you really need to stop drinking the kool-aid, and fast. There is no connection between “racist stereotypes” and pure racism. Being a racist does not mean that one has “racist stereotypes” in mind. One can be racist against any race, for any reason, from ideological differences to unadulterated hatred with no thought of stereotypes.”

    OregonJake, the fact that they traffic in racist stereotypes is just one indicator of racism. I highly doubt anyone with a mind would debate whether calling someone “Paki” as Schlussel has done is racist or not. Or impugning Asian terrorist to mean Pakistani or Muslim. As far as Pam goes then her tirades against Arabs and Palestinians on top of her recent comment above about blacks is more then enough to highlight her racism.

    Again OregonJake,

    “Name a socially constructed race. Your claim is pure conjecture, or maybe a way for you to be comfortable denigrating those with whom you disagree without using any facts. Again, source and name a socially constructed race”.

    You obviously follow the notion that race is genetic, if you are a Christian Zionist you should know one of your own Biologists, a former racist himself, Dave Unander has written a book which also is part Christian polemic titled: Shattering the Myth of Race which makes the exact point I do.

    I find this blog post called Race As A Social Construct spells out well what you don’t seem to get about race being a social construct,

    “There is nothing absolute or real about social constructions in the same way as there is something absolute and real about rocks, rivers, mountains, and in general the objects examined by physics. For example, the existence of a mountain is not contingent on collective acceptance, imposition, or agreement. A mountain will exist regardless of people thinking, agreeing or accepting that it does exist. Unlike a mountain, the existence of race requires that people collectively agree and accept that it does exist. Franz Boas, a physicist by training, supports this view of race best in his work Race, Language, and Culture where he observes that there is nothing biologically real about race. There is nothing that we have identified as race that exists apart from our collective agreement, acceptance, and imposition of its existence.”

    I recommend reading the site to see how racism plays in Islamophobia. As I stated, and it is not too hard to understand, when Islamophobes want to hit out against Islam and Muslims many times they have in mind one or two races, i.e. the towel head example.

13. Yogurt Says:
    September 7th, 2009 at 1:29 am

    It’s late and I think I may be imagining things.. but is there a Ku Klux Klan man in the picture frame behind Pam??

14. Garibaldi Says:
    September 7th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    LOL @ Yogurt.

    I see what you’re talking about, I never noticed it before. I’m pretty sure it’s a flag, but with Pam you never know. Haha.

15. Garibaldi Says:
    September 8th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    OregonJake, your post was moderated because of the racist language. Please take it as a warning.

16. Danios Says:
    September 9th, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    Excellent article. OregonJake thinks that things need to be “refuted,” but most people can tell insanity when they see it. For example, when someone says “Muslims are terrorists,” you don’t need to disprove that or rebut that. Instead, you simply quote it and that’s damaging enough for whoever said it. But bigots will continue to be clueless, and have to ask: “what’s wrong with that quote?”

17. Ustadh Says:
    September 15th, 2009 at 1:43 am

    Seriously OregonJake,

    You obviously approve of this bigot known as Pam Geller. Don’t you see how that ruins your reputation. Well, it just strikes the average person as odd that you think Obama is a Muslim. First of all, you have no clue of what Islamic law says, and even if we granted you that it said what you say it does, if we entertain that nonsense, why can’t you believe what President Obama has said over a million times, “I’m not a Muslim, I’m a Christian.” Does his word count for anything?

    Secondly you agree that with Pam and call him an anti-Semite. Plain ridiculous! Something like 75 percent of Jewish Americans voted for Obama, and that amidst a unbelievable push by the right-wing to scare Jews by slandering Obama as a “evil anti-Israel, anti-Semite Mooslim.” Do you think AIPAC, the largest and most influential Israeli lobby organization would allow an anti-Semite onto it’s podium as the featured speaker for their annual conference and that doesn’t count the Jewish organizations that gave him their endorsements. Have you taken a look at his cabinet, top down filled with Jews, Rahm Emmanuel is his Chief of Staff for Godsakes. You are insulting the intelligence of Jews by agreeing with Pam that he is anti-Semite. What anti-Semite wears a yarmaluke, goes to the wailing wall and prays?

    Please think and consider what and who you are supporting. This piece breaks down the lunacy of Pamela Geller and for anyone with a fair and critical mind it is quite obvious.

18. Lizard#16492 Says:
    September 16th, 2009 at 3:30 am

    Ugh! Might you please replace that image with one of her with Robert Spencer instead? LGF has repeatedly outed Geller for associations with fascist elements and busted her for using neo-nazi propaganda. Thank you.

19. Garibaldi Says:
    September 16th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    Lizard,

    Don’t you find it ironic that she at one time was pretty much advertising for LGF, and as much as you dislike that picture she probably hates it more because she was advertising for you guys. That must mean something to you?

    Also, it is one of the worst pictures out there of her, and the photo in the background which looks like a Klan-man is just priceless.

20. Lizard#16492 Says:
    September 16th, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    Geller hates that picture, to be sure. LGF has plenty on her associations with extremists. Hope you feel free to rub her face in it anytime.

21. Realist Says:
    September 20th, 2009 at 5:19 am

    What exactly in Pamela Gellar’s statements are you actually able to refute? rather than blast her mental status? there is nothing in the slightest bit unbalanced about standing up for the rights of westerners. Needless to say you’re very pro-islam. But tell me, when did Islam become a race?? where has Pamela been an open racist? Playing the race card and name calling, whilst refusing to refute any arguments only serves to justify you as an idiot with not an inch of ground to stand on.

22. Garibaldi Says:
    September 21st, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    Lizard,We will definitely rub it in her face. Just wondering why she is so kooky? And to echo Micahel Kruse of the St. Petersburg Times, why do somewhat smart individuals like Spencer and Bostom continue to associate with her? They give away their prejudices which they work so hard to conceal in the process.

23. Samar Says:
    September 22nd, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    To Realist,

    I think the wrong term was used.

    Pamela G is not a RACIST she is a BIGOT

    Bigot means intolerance of religion, and an irrational hatred of religion, in her case Islam. She’s a liar and she knows it, because she doesn’t post comments unless she agrees with them. I have posted there to rebut her lies, and she deleted my comments.

    The reason you don’t find rebuttals to Pamela G, is because they are so widely available on the internet from mainstream Islamic websites or even non Islamic mainstream history professors, the history that is taught in Universities the world over. True history. If you have specifics then ask.

    Pamela G and her partners like Spencer, are just the far right loony’s.

24. Jack Ashton Says:
    September 23rd, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    I like Pam. Okay, she may get a bit wild with her comments but on Islam she is correct. Islam has from its beginnings been an Arab imperialist political ideology. It’s ultimate aim is to rule the world and over the centuries it has spread throughout the world. Winston Churchill compared Hitler’s Mein Kampf to the Koran.

    It has been, and is, the scourge of Christianity in Africa and Asia. Christian communities in the Middle east have virtually vanished under its onslaught. It has brought conflict, poverty and backwardness to every nation where it has become established.

    Now it is spreading to Europe and the US. Do we want Islamic supremacism to supplant Western democratic values? Are we to accept Islam’s view of women as second class citizens who’s worth is less than that of men or it’s view of non-muslims as being inferior?

    Please look at the real issue - what Islam is and what it stands for.

25. Karon Terah Says:
    September 24th, 2009 at 7:39 am

    Your display your ignorance Mr Jack Ashton, or maybe you’re just envious and jealous. Prophet Muhammed is the most influential man in history.

    Churchill always tried to rewrite history to make it look like Christiantiy wasn’t the dark blight it has been to humanity. Mein Kempf was Hitler doing the work of the Lord according to him, ie. Inspired by Chrisitiantity, you stupid fool.

    Ironically, Churchill’s country and Europe got their knowledge from Islam, and Europe didn’t progress till it became secular. America was created to keep Christianity out, and it too prospered till the rise of the Chrisitan Right. The pagan man god Paul created and the black history of his followers, is proof of it’s evil. That’s why Jesus said,

    “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’” (Matthew 7:22-23)

    Chrisitnaity has given nothing by way of knowledge or enlightnement, because it rejects the religion of Jesus, (a monotheistic, law following religion like Judaism) Instead it became a pagan cult, with a man god who saves you from all sins. That is why a Christian can kill and still be saved according to their pagan theology, and a non Christian is condemned to hell for rejecting a man God, that is why you had the Crusades, and why you killed Jews, Muslims and all “infidels”. Islam was a beacon of tolerance and by the way, have you read the Torah? Anyone who reads the two always concludes that the Torah, the religioun Jesus folowed is worse in all aspects, so how then can you claim to be a “christian” and condemn the Quran?

    Islam built the west, and Churchill was envious of that. You use him as a source when he believed the Prototocals were real? As a true pagan Christian follower, of course he would see both Jews and Muslims and all others as infidels. By the way, it was Churchill’s lot who brought anti-semitism to Islamic lands when they came to the Mid East

    I will now post some links to educate you,

    http://www.hschamberlain.net/timeline/timeline.html

    August 29: Jewish World Congress in Basel. The infamous book The Protocols of the Wise Men of Zion, allegedly a record of the proceedings of this congress, was published a few years later. Both Henry Ford and Winston Churchill were convinced of the authenticity of this document.
    — Jewish industrialist and politician Walther Rathenau published his Höre, Israel! (Hear, Israel!) in which he summoned the Jewish population in Germany to assimilate and to adopt German virtues.

    The Great Scandal: Christianity’s Role in the Rise of the Nazis
    http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1112242439

    How Christian hatred for Jews led to the Hitler’s Jewish holocaust
    “By defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord” Hitler in Mein Kampf

    “Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” (Matthew 23:33)
    The Christian theology spurred hate of Jews since they blame the Jews for killing their mythical god Jesus. In other words, Hitler and his holocaust was a child of this Christian hatred.

    Chapter 23 describes the famous diatribe of Jesus against the Jewish leaders. Such biblical words has, for centuries, given believers justification for Jewish hatred. This verse, spoken by the alleged Jesus himself, compares the unbelieving Jews with the serpent devil.
    “Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.”
    These verses by Jesus has fueled the engine of anti-Semitism throughout Europe and the rest of the world for centuries. Unfortunately many believers today still justify their hatred of Jews based on Scripture. source

    How Christianity was the catalyst of the Holocaust

    Hitler’s anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education. Austria and Germany were majorly Christian during his time and they held the belief that Jews were an inferior status to Aryan Christians. The Christians blamed the Jews for the killing of Jesus. Jewish hatred did not actually spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years. The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews and their Jewish religion. In his book, “On the Jews and their Lies,” Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War 2. Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther constantly quoting his works and beliefs.

26. SugaNSpice Says:
    September 24th, 2009 at 8:15 am

    Hey Jack Ashton, ISLAM BUILT THE WEST AND CIVILISATION

    read and learn, ill help you, and explain how you can follow a religion that endorses peodophila, rape, mass murder, and worship of a man god that forgives all sins, and all others are condemned to hell.

    And then read the mainstream scholarly references below that detail how Islam built moden civilisation and the West. See the DVD by Ben Kingsley below. Read the book by Mark Graham, which shows chapter by chapter how the West, Europe, USA et al were created by Islamic innovations, knowledge and gifts. That is why God gave us the Quran. And you have the gall to compare to Mein Kempf? Tch Tch, such spectacular ignorance…

    Check out the muslimheritage.com site below, Prince Charles has a foreward, and it is used by British and other world renowned Universities in their curricululm.

    —————

    Welcome to the EvilBible.com Web Site
    http://www.evilbible.com/
    This web site is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For
    far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious
    criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called ?God? of the Bible
    makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the
    Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage,
    plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of
    unborn children. I have included references to the Biblical passages, so
    grab your Bible and follow along.

    Hate Groups:
    When The Hate Comes From ‘Churches’
    Christian Science Monitor, USA
    B. Knickerbocker
    http://www.religionnewsblog.com/10652

    1000 Years of Christian Barbarity
    http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/1000years.htm

    Christian Anti-Semitism: Past History, Present Challenges
    http://www.unomaha.edu/jrf/2004Symposium/Pawlikowski.htm

    CONVERT TO CHRISTIANITY OR DIE
    Hugh Fogelman
    http://www.jdstone.org/cr/files/converttochristianityordie.html
    ———————–

    Islam’s Contribution and Influence
    on the World
    By Sanah Burhan
    http://www.islamic-study.org/Islam%27s%20Influence%20on%20the%20World.htm
    ————

    Islam: Empire of Faith is the epic PBS documentary that charts the history
    of Islam from its beginnings in Mecca and Medina in the seventh century to
    the glory of the Ottoman Empire 1,000 years later.
    Starring: Ben Kingsley Director: Robert A. Gardner

    Product Description

    ISLAM: EMPIRE OF FAITH, a three-part series, re-creates the spectacular
    sweep of Islamic power and faith during its first 1,000 years, from
    Muhammad’s birth to the Ottoman Empire under Suleyman the Magnificent.
    Evocative re-enactments and art, artifacts, and architecture combine with
    scholarly interviews to recount the rise and glory of Islamic civilization.

    DVD includes behind-the-scenes look at the making of ISLAM and producer’s
    commentary
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00…v=glance&n=130

    ——————–

    “How Islam Created the Modern World,” written by award-winning author Mark
    Graham.

    http://www.amazon.com/How-Islam-Created-Modern-World/dp/1590080432/sr=8-1/qid=1157638890/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0126589-7657723?ie=UTF8&s=books

    Product Description

    In the Middle Ages, while Europe was mired in superstition and feudal chaos, Baghdad was the intellectual center of the world. It was there that an army of translators and scholars took the wisdom of the Greeks and combined it with their own cultural traditions to create a scientific, mathematical and philosophical golden age. Their accomplishments were staggering, including the development of modern medicine, chemistry, and algebra.

    Muslim scientists correctly calculated the circumference of the globe in the tenth century. Muslim musicians introduced the guitar and musical notation to the Europe. And Muslim philosophers invented the scientific method and paved the way for the Enlightenment. At the dawn of the Renaissance, Christian Europe was wearing Persian clothes, singing Arab songs, reading Spanish Muslim philosophy and eating off Mamluk Turish brassware. This is the story of how Muslims taught Europe to live well and think clearly. It is the story of how Islam created the Modern World.

    About the Author

    Mark Graham is the Edgar award-winning author of ‘The Black Maria’, third in a series of historical novels which have been translated into several
    languages. He studied medieval history and religious studies at Connecticut College and has a master’s degree in English literature from Kutztown University. He lives in the Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania.

    —————-

    How Islamic inventors changed the world
    http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article350594.ece
    From coffee to cheques and the three-course meal, the Muslim world has given us many innovations that we take for granted in daily life. As a new
    exhibition opens, Paul Vallely nominates 20 of the most influential- and
    identifies the men of genius behind them

    Muslim contribution to science, art, technology, medicine and civilization
    http://www.muslimheritage.com/Default.aspx

    Muslim Scientists and Scholars

    On this site you can read fascinating accounts of some of the most talented Muslim scholars in history whose contributions have left lasting marks in the annals of science, astronomy, medicine, surgery, engineering and philosophy.
    ———————

    Let me know if you want more sources

27. Mary-Louise Says:
    September 24th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    I like Pam…
    She has god sources. It has been amazing t see the things that came forward - REAL FACTS - about the Rifqa Bary case because Pam is an advocate for women of Islam who have been victims of honor killing. She is the least racist or bigoted one among you. Why? Because she defends women whether they have left Islam or NOT. She defends gay me - she doesn’t think they should be honor killed.

    She defends Jews, Christians, Muslims, former Muslims, and more. Why not study honor killing and see why she is so impassioned. She comes from the religion that has known bitter persecution; somehow she is on fire to help others, especially defenseless girls, who are at risk of being exterminated.

    And, Geert Wilders has a point…read what is happening in Europe before you laugh him off. It is no joke. Yo don’t need to lie the man or have dinner with him - But he definitely has a point. Look into it. At some point you may wish you had listened. You may wish there was a Pam Geller someone who was concerned for your safety.

    And the fact that so many Jews voted for Obama does not make that AN INFORMED or intelligent choice. The thought he was nice and liberal. But he just gave the most intensely anti-Israel speech at the UN - they can pretty much kiss it goodbye. But maybe the US Jews didn’t like what Israel had become. That is their right.

    About Obama and Malcom X - he is a spitting image of Malcolm x - Obama does not at all look like his African father. One could also make a case that Obama looks like “Frank” (Frank MArshall Davis)
    I don’t know where that puts the birther movement - but I never thought Obama looked even remotely like the same gene pool of Obama Sr. even before I was aware of any controversy. I thought “What? they don’t look at all alike.”

    And about Obama’s name - he did get the middle name when he was older - WHY?

    We know less about Obama than we ever knew about any cnadidates and WHY is that? It is because you read his “autobiographies” penned by Bill Ayers, no less! You felt close to him - so you voted for him…But if he is so OPEN - why are so many of his record CLOSED?

    Otherwise there was very little on which to judge this man who we made the most powerful leader in the world. He has never done so much as run a hot dog stand - He can talk - and he thinks he can ask the world to play nicely. We’d better hope it works.
    ML

28. Garibaldi Says:
    September 24th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    Mary Louise,

    I’m really sorry to tell you this, but you have been duped by Pam Geller. At least you admit implicitly that she believed Malcolm was the father of Barack, which she now denies. Pam doesn’t care for anyone, she hates Muslims. It is clear.

    Geert Wilders, has no point! If you like him, then you like a fascist who wants to do away with democratic freedoms. Don’t fall for the trap ML.

29. Mary-Louise Says:
    September 24th, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    I don’t know if she thinks Malcolm is the Dad - but I have seen that claim made elsewhere. I will say he looks WAY more like Malcolm than his African Dad.

    I disagree with you vehemently on this: “Pam doesn’t care for anyone, she hates Muslims. It is clear.”

    It is clear she cares about Muslim girls and women. Read her section about honor killings. These women need a voice. I was horrified first by honor killings in the west, and THEN I found Pam’s site…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-507020/Teenager-honour-killing-girl-dramatic-plea-help-died.html

    Protect the girls
    ML

30. null Says:
    September 25th, 2009 at 12:33 am

    Lol, Mary-Louise is so daft. A good example of Pam’s readership.

    Pam cares about the girlz! Bahaha.

31. SugaNSpice Says:
    September 25th, 2009 at 2:21 am

    Mary Louise

    Geller doesn’t care about Muslim girls she just uses them to further her own agenda. If she cared about honour killings why doesn’t she speak out against the Christian, Israeli Druze (a mixture of Muslim and Jewish religion) Hindu, Sikh, and other honour killings? There was a Yemeni Jew who killed his daughter last year, or the year before, where was Geller’s condemnation of that? Stop being so naive. Try posting the links below to Geller’s site, and she will delete them. She deletes all comments (even factual ones) if they discredit her bigotry.

    One of the spectacular lies that those who have an agenda to discredit Islam propogate is that honour killings are Islamic. They are not. Islam is only 1450 years old. Honour killings existed centuries before then. Islam actually banned honour killings. Why don’t these liars protect the Christian, and other girls who are victims of honour killings? I’m posting links below which show non Muslim honour killings. It’s a cultural habit, not a religious one, and it’s also practiced in other societies, even Greece till recently.

    I suggest you check out some of the fatwa’s issued against honour killings. There are plenty of documented Non Muslim honour killings at this website supported by those who want to end this practice in countries where it is still a custom. Also links below of honour killings comitted recently by Christian’s. In Israel the Druze (Non Muslim) beauty contestant Ms. Fares, pulled out after her relatives plotted an honour killing. .

    http://www.stophonourkillings.com

    ——-

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing
    Honor killings are more common among poor rural Muslim communities than
    urban ones. Arab Christians living within parts of the Near East, such as
    sections of Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinian Authority, sometimes carry out the crime as well
    ——————–
    Look beyond religion to find some reasons why honour killings go on
    http://www.smh.com.au/news/Opinion/Look-beyond-religion-to-find-some-reasons-why-honour-killings-go-on/2005/01/25/1106415594713.html
    That Islamic orthodoxy has been unanimous in its condemnation of this
    behaviour for more than a millennium is either forgotten or ignored. So,
    too, the fact that honour crimes occur only within small pockets of these
    countries. The result is a crude diagnosis defined by the kind of
    caricatures that lie at the heart of such literature as Norma Khouri’s now
    infamous Forbidden Love.
    The facts tell a different story. Many honour killings do happen among
    Muslim families - a fact which should anger every Muslim - but Muslims do
    not have a monopoly on this blight. It is present among Christian families
    in the Middle East.
    In the subcontinent, similar crimes occur among some Sikh and Hindu
    communities, particularly surrounding inter-caste relationships. Crown
    prosecutors in Britain say cases also come from Eastern European, Greek and
    Italian communities.
    ————-

    March 9, 2007

    Miss Israel finalist quits after family’s honour killing plot
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1489930.ece
    the first Druze to compete in the pageant — was threatened with death,
    allegedly by two uncles and other men from her village who accused her of
    disgracing the family name with promiscuous behaviour.
    ————
    Play on ‘wife murder’ amongst Israeli Ethiopians
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=1&cid=1154525892570&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
    Wife murder, unknown among the Beta Israel in Ethiopia, has become a problem of crisis proportions in the migr Ethiopian community in Israel. While Ethiopians make up just one percent of the population, 25% of women murdered by their husbands or intimate partners over the past decade were Ethiopian.
    Of the last 18 women killed, seven were Ethiopian - an even higher
    percentage.
    ————–

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1145961226794&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
    Apr. 26, 2006 0:51
    Shfaram official probed for ‘honor killing’ comment
    By DAN IZENBERG

    On October 22, a Druse woman was killed by three of her relatives for
    supposedly conducting an affair with a Muslim man.

    ————–

    Women’s rights group: Arab ‘honor’ killings claim 9 victims in 2005

    By Itim
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=649254&contrassID=2&subContrassID=15&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

    Shfaram’s Samar Hasan, 23, was allegedly murdered by her father and uncles,
    who are Christian, because she was living with a Muslim man.

32. SugaNSpice Says:
    September 25th, 2009 at 2:32 am

    Mary Louise,

    There are many Islamic rulings and fatwa’s against honour killings. It’s a cultural tradition predating Islam, like genital mutiliation, and has no place in Islam.

    Below is a link for you, from Islamonline.com one of the more Orthodox and popular Islamic websites, where you can send in your own questions and get an answer from scholars of Islam.

    Also below for you, a Palestinian Christan honour killing detailed in the Guardian. These are things that Pamela Geller won’t tell you because she can’t use these girls for her bigotry.

    Does this information make you see her in a different light? When i tried posting these at her website once she deleted the comments.

    ————-

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1512394,00.html

    Murdered in name of family honour

    Chris McGreal in Ramallah reports on a rise in killings of Palestinian women
    Thursday June 23, 2005
    The Guardian
    Faten Habash’s father wept as he assured his daughter there would be no more beatings, no more threats to her life and that she was free to marry the man she loved, even if he was a Muslim. All he asked was that Faten return home.

    But the next weekend, as Faten watched a Boy Scouts parade from the balcony of her Ramallah home, the 22-year-old Christian Palestinian was dragged into the living room and bludgeoned to death with an iron bar. Her father was arrested for the murder.
    ——–
    Honour killing outside the world of Islam
    http://www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/outside.html
    fatwa against ho
    —————
    Honor Killing from an Islamic Perspective
    Respected scholars, As-Salamu `Alaykum wa Rahmatu Allah wa Barakatuh. What
    does Islam say about honor killings? Does Islam really have a concept of
    honor killings, most of the victims here are females; so does Islam really
    order to kill females in the name of honor?

    http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543392

33. Dat Says:
    September 25th, 2009 at 3:01 am

    Dear Mary Louise

    The death penalty for apostasy exists in Judaism too. Perhap’s Ms Geller can explain why she doesn’t expand upon that.

    Did you know Christians are eligible for the death sentence for idolatry in Orthodox Judaism. Do a cursory search at Jewish religious websites and you will see for yourself.

    The Pharisee’s wanted Jesus to die because according to them he left Judaism. He didn’t die, but they wanted him to.

    The same with the Shabtei Tzvi, the false Jewish Messiah in Ottoman times. He was sentenced to death at the inisistence of the Rabbis and only lived because he converted to Islam. In Islam a non Moslem can convert to Islam and save his life if he is given the death sentence as long as he repents.

34. Barry Lyndon Says:
    September 26th, 2009 at 6:42 am

    “Hey Jack Ashton, ISLAM BUILT THE WEST AND CIVILISATION”

    Only in your imagination, a lot of achievements that muslims claim were not created by muslims, ‘arabic’ numerals were actually created by Indian Hindus. Algebra was actually invented by pre-Islamic babylonians, parabolic arches are assyrian in origin and so on. In his book How Greek Science Passed to the Arabs, O’Leary lists 22 scholars and translators during the Golden Age of Islam; 20 were Christians, 1 was a Persian, and 1 was a Muslim.

    “And then read the mainstream scholarly references below that detail how Islam built moden civilisation and the West.”

    Wrong, civilization owes more to Europe and Asia and besides European cultures have been far more egalitarian and free than Islamic nations; take the basques or the Scottish Highlanders for example. Not to mention Europe produced the abolition movement, on the other hand slavery continued to exist in islamic nations such as saudi arabia until the 1960s. So I’m afraid your lil’ sumpremacist rant is pure fantasy.

    “Read the book by Mark Graham, which shows chapter by chapter how the West, Europe, USA et al were created by Islamic innovations, knowledge and gifts.”

    Man and I thought lord of the rings was chock full of fantasy, the US constitution was not influenced by islam, it was however influenced by Native American society, you know absolutely nothing of history, people with supremacist mindsets rarely do.

    “Prince Charles has a foreward, and it is used by British and other world renowned Universities in their curricululm.”

    Prince Charles is a moron I couldn’t care less what he thinks.

35. Barry Lyndon Says:
    September 26th, 2009 at 7:23 am

    “Ironically, Churchill’s country and Europe got their knowledge from Islam”

    Wrong very wrong, apart from the fact that many ‘muslim’ acheivements aren’t islamic in origin (’arabic’ numerals were actually invented by Indians), Europe has gotten it’s knowledge from such sources as Greece, data preserved by Romanized goths, texts preserved by Irish people and so on.

    “and Europe didn’t progress till it became secular.”

    So such achievements as the renniassance or abolition movements were all in my imagination? Not to mention European cultures have been far more egalitarian and democratic; the Norse for example.

    “America was created to keep Christianity out”

    And in what alternate universe did that happen? Last time I checked quite of a few America’s founding fathers were Christians.

    “Chrisitnaity has given nothing by way of knowledge or enlightnement”

    So Nicolaus Copernicus was all in my imagination? Also why was it that Christian the Christian Assyrians translated the Greek Corpus to Syriac, then to Arabic? Also most of the great muslim thinkers were not exactly devote, Ibn Sina did not believe in the immortality of the soul and did not believe in a god that cares about the creation.

    Hafiz didn’t praise muhammed in any of his poetry and wrote ‘drink and burn the pulpit but don’t hurt people.’ Ar Razi spoke fearlessly against all the religions calling the Prophets disdainfully “Billy Goats” and liars. So many were muslim in name only, the idea that islam can be credited with any of their achievements is absurd.

    “that is why you had the Crusades”

    The Crusades were a defensive campaign, also I love it how you don’t mention the Armenian, Greek or Assyrian genocides.

    “and why you killed Jews, Muslims and all “infidels.”

    Atrocities took place on both sides, the crusades wouldn’t happened if muslims hadn’t provoked them, do you see the hypocrisy is whining about the crusades but not mentioning islamic genocides? Also what do you mean by ‘you killed’ unless anyone here is immortal that sentence is quite silly.

    “Islam was a beacon of tolerance”

    Try to telling that to Christian Copts who have to live under oppression not to mention minorities such as Jews had easier lives in countries such as Ireland and Wales who were far more tolerant. Compare this:

    Joe Briscoe, son of Robert Briscoe, the Dublin Jewish politician, describes the Limerick episode as “an aberration in an otherwise almost perfect history of Ireland and its treatment of the Jews”.

    To this:

    “Now, contrary to what many Jews and other people have believed, conditions in Muslim lands were often worse for Jews than in Christendom. At least this was the opinion of the great Jewish philosopher, Maimonides (1135-1204), who fled Spain due to persecution by a fanatical Muslim sect and ended up as a Jewish leader in Egypt and physician to the famous Sultan Saladin. ”

    http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2009/08/forgotten-oppression-of-jews-under_14.html

    “and by the way, have you read the Torah? Anyone who reads the two always concludes that the Torah, the religioun Jesus folowed is worse in all aspects, so how then can you claim to be a “christian” and condemn the Quran?”

    Which just proves that religion is a tool of oppression.

    “Islam built the west”

    If that’s true why have muslims had to pass off Hindu and Assyrian achievements as their own?

    “By the way, it was Churchill’s lot who brought anti-semitism to Islamic lands when they came to the Mid East”

    Pure fiction, the quran is filled with anti-semitism, for example Muhammad exterminated the Jews of Arabia who called that land home for 2000 years.

    “How Christian hatred for Jews led to the Hitler’s Jewish holocaust
    “By defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord” Hitler in Mein Kampf”

    Here’s what hitler really thought:

    “You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?”

    “It is through the peasantry that we will really be able to destroy Christianity, because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood.”

    Also how could the nazis have been Christians when they brutalized the Christians of poland? Not to mention muslims allies themselves with the nazis, it’s alliance that continues to this day, David Duke for example.

    “Chapter 23 describes the famous diatribe of Jesus against the Jewish leaders. Such biblical words has, for centuries, given believers justification for Jewish hatred. This verse, spoken by the alleged Jesus himself, compares the unbelieving Jews with the serpent devil.
    “Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.”
    These verses by Jesus has fueled the engine of anti-Semitism throughout Europe and the rest of the world for centuries. Unfortunately many believers today still justify their hatred of Jews based on Scripture. source”

    Like I said that just proves that religion is inherently oppressive.

    “Hitler’s anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education. Austria and Germany were majorly Christian during his time and they held the belief that Jews were an inferior status to Aryan Christians. The Christians blamed the Jews for the killing of Jesus. Jewish hatred did not actually spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years. The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews and their Jewish religion. In his book, “On the Jews and their Lies,” Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War 2. Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther constantly quoting his works and beliefs.”

    If that’s true explain the quotes? And why did hitler seek to elevate pagan sympbols above the cross? Why did hitler invade other Christian countries? Why did he kill and imprison christians? Why wasn’t spreading religion a key interest of his? Why didn’t he have any problem allying with muslims?

    http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/

36. yoyo Says:
    September 27th, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    first pam is clinically paranoid and bigotted and she lets comments stand on her site that are obvious hate speech. secondly, the debate between some here about which is better islam or christianity is stupid. they are both fairy stories designed to keep barely literate societies together and we need neither of them.

37. Elvis Presley Says:
    September 29th, 2009 at 3:11 am

    Regardless of what these litigious commentators say about religion, a woman that seriously believes that malcolm X is obama’s father is mentally unstable. We don’t need proof that he is not malcolm X’s son, we need proof that he IS his son. Innocent before proven guilty.

    Lastly one can blame any particular religion or culture for the wrongs of this world, just look at the demographics of the world’s worst governments. The world’s most oppressive regime is atheistic (North Korea). The world’s worst record of human rights is also shared between a christian (Robert Mugabe), a buddhist (than shwe) and a muslim (Omar-Al Bashir).
    Islam doesn’t even come up as the world’s main source of terrorism. Most acts of terrorism last year were committed by the Tamil Tigers (Hindu Secularists), the FDLR (moderate christians) and the LRA (Christian fundamentalists).

38. Elvis Presley Says:
    September 29th, 2009 at 3:28 am

    Looking at Pamela Geller’s blog now, I am realizing she is not only crazy but also a genocide-denier! look at this post http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/the-pictures-th.html
    You know you have to be a muslim hater when you name your blog “ATLAS SHRUGGED” yet defend the communist genocide in Bosnia !

39. Ustadh Says:
    September 30th, 2009 at 11:26 am

    Barry Lyndon says,
    “Wrong very wrong, apart from the fact that many ‘muslim’ acheivements aren’t islamic in origin (’arabic’ numerals were actually invented by Indians), Europe has gotten it’s knowledge from such sources as Greece, data preserved by Romanized goths, texts preserved by Irish people and so on.”

    This is an Islamophobic card, used to try to erase the history of Muslim contributions to humanity. The Renaissance was spurred by interaction and exchange with the Muslim world, this history is well known but is whitewashed by Historians such as Ranke who attempted to paint all knowledge especially that which shaped modernity as originating from Europe, that is why he and others like him link the Renaissance to the rediscovered Greeks. Read the Renaissance Bazzar to get a more accurate picture of the emergence of the renaissance rather than relying on 19th century historians whose supremacist school of thought has largely been debunked.

    I agree with you that it is not completely accurate to state that “Europe didn’t progress until it became secular.” I have issues with definitions of “progress” and the whole thing implies a teleological view of History which is problematic from many standpoints. However, it is true that the Enlightenment would not have been possible if the European principalities and governments didn’t hack away at each other over mundane points as: is it permissible to sing in Church (Anabaptists), whether the Son of God transfigured, the role of the Pope…ie the Religious Wars. This orgy of blood led people to divorce themselves from the union of religion and state. You had thinkers saying “enough blood” in the name of our ethics and principles “we have to live, and let live” and therefore you had the rebirth and reconfiguration of Democracy and the nation-States (problematic as well).

    It is a disputed field as to how many Muslims were involved in the translations of the ancient text. Either way what you seem to be unable to countenance is that even those Christian Arabs/Syriacs who translated the ancient knowledges had Muslim pupils! That is the reason why Muslims were able to take the said knowledge and revolutionize it and expand upon it. To add to the writings and commentaries of Aristotle. That is why Averroes was known as the “Great Commentator” by Aquanius. That is why the free thinkers of Europe were known as Averroists. Your attempt to erase such a shared history and fertilization between the Muslim mediterranean and Europe is futile and sad.

    It also seems you’ve picked up the books of Ibn Warraq who paints all the popular figures of Muslim history as not only non-Muslim but haters of Islam. Hafiz was an ambivalent figure, a free thinker, I surely would agree that he was ecclectic, and I don’t think his perverted poems about young boys had anything to do with Islam but it is completely true that the enviornment he grew up in, the symbols, metaphors, tropes he employed were influenced by Muslim literature and Islam. That’s a fact.

    You also bandy about the absurd and revisionist idea that the Crusades were defensive. They weren’t defensive or in response to any Muslim army. Their whole purpose was the fulfillment of the visions of the Papacy, which saw the Holy Land filled with pagan Muslims. They were sent out in the hopes of procuring riches from “the land of Milk and honey” to quote the Pope. It seems you agree with the actions of the Crusaders? Or you blame Muslims for being massacred by them?

    You try and bring up the lives of Jews in Europe as more tolerant than in the Middle East. How absurd! That Jews lived in relatively more tolerant conditions in Muslim lands than in Europe is not in contention except by the likes of Bat Ye’or and revisionists such as yourself. Ireland was the only tolerant place in the whole of Europe and even there as you show there were pograms. The whole of the Middle East was a sea of Irelands and better! That is why Maimonides went from Spain, where he saw an oppressive and aberrant group take power to Egypt and Salahdin where he was treated with the utmost respect. So you bringing that up actually goes against you.

    Barry Lyndon says,
    “Not to mention muslims allies themselves with the nazis, it’s alliance that continues to this day, David Duke for example.”

    More Islamophobia. Trying to link Muslims with Nazis in a forever link that goes way back. You impugn all Muslims as Nazis, have you no shame?

    Churchill’s comments show him to be an anti-Semite yet you continue to use him as a reference? Churchill was a supremacist, a colonialist and you admire him?

    Muhammad did not exterminate the Jews of Arabia. How ridiculous can you get Barry? Stop with the Islamophobia and come to your senses.

40. Lex, Agent of Chaos Says:
    September 30th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    Trust me. I’m a reformed Islamophobe blogger as well as a reformed ‘friend’ of Pammycakes. She is beyond insane.

41. Barry Lyndon Says:
    October 1st, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    Why hasn’t my reply to Ustadh been posted yet?

42. Garibaldi Says:
    October 1st, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    Barry it looks like your post was probably sent to Spam and automatically deleted, can you repost your reply?

43. Barry Lyndon Says:
    October 2nd, 2009 at 12:07 am

    “This is an Islamophobic card used to try to erase the history of Muslim contributions to humanity.”

    Except the contributions weren’t actually islamic, arabic numerals came from India, the concept of zero and algebra came from babylonia, it was actually Christian Assyrians who translated and preserved the Greek Corpus.

    “The Renaissance was spurred by interaction and exchange with the Muslim world”

    While it’s true that Arabic texsts had influence, the Renaissance also took place because it’s thinkers sought out texts from monastic libraries (Ireland preserved a great deal of texsts) and the Byzantine empire.

    “Read the Renaissance Bazzar to get a more accurate picture of the emergence of the renaissance”

    Read a revisionist book filled with lies? No thanks, I think this review sums that book up:

    “The Renaissance was not all that Burckhardt claimed, and this is a lesson that bears repeating. But Renaissance Bazaar would make an unfortunate choice for a textbook. It is littered with errors. To cite a small selection: Constantinople did not fall to the Turks on 28 May 1453 (49). Printing did not arrive in Rome in 1465 (78). Lorenzo de’ Medici was not Cosimo’s son (102). It is doubtful that any medieval cartographer marked “uncharted waters” as terra incognita (158); Istanbul means neither “throne” nor “capital” in Turkish (51); the inscription in Costanzo da Ferrara’s Seated Scribe is not Arabic but Persian (137). Federico da Montefeltro rather famously refused to “invest heavily” in printed books (77); Copernicus spent little if any time “gazing at the stars through scientific instruments of his own invention” (187).”

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb3394/is_1_58/ai_n29172163/

    If I want fiction, I’ll go pick up the next James Ellroy novel.

    “rather than relying on 19th centuryhistorians whose supremacist school of thought has largely been debunked.”

    How am I a supremacist when I praised Asian contributions? Sugarnspice however definitely is a supremacist.

    “I agree with you that it is not completely accurate to state that “Europe didn’t progress until it became secular.”

    Why thank you.

    “It is a disputed field as to how many Muslims were involved in the translations of the ancient text. Either way what you seem to be unable to countenance is that even those Christian Arabs/Syriacs who translated the ancient knowledges had Muslim pupils!”

    I know.

    “That is the reason why Muslims were able to take the said knowledge and revolutionize it and expand upon it. To add to the writings and commentaries of Aristotle. That is why was known as the “Great Commentator” by Aquanius. That is why the free thinkers of Europe were known as Averroists. Your attempt to erase such a shared history and fertilization between the Muslim mediterranean and Europe is futile and sad.”

    Giving the fact that you recommend me a book filled me errors and lies I don’t think you’re in the position to lecture someone about history.

    “It also seems you’ve picked up the books of Ibn Warraq who paints all the popular figures of Muslim history as not only non-Muslim but haters of Islam. Hafiz was an ambivalent figure, a free thinker, I surely would agree that he was ecclectic, and I don’t think his perverted poems about young boys had anything to do with Islam but it is completely true that the enviornment he grew up in, the symbols, metaphors, tropes he employed were influenced by Muslim literature and Islam. That’s a fact.”

    My point is that while there were great Arab thinkers they were muslims in name only, thus the idea that islam can be credited with their achievements is a tad silly.

    “You also bandy about the absurd and revisionist idea that the Crusades were defensive.”

    It was a respone to muslim agression, the crusaders only ‘invaded’ lands that were Christian, the goal wasn’t to topple the islamic empire.

    “They weren’t defensive or in response to any Muslim army.”

    Really? So the muslims who attacked pilgrims and European nations never existed?

    “Their whole purpose was the fulfillment of the visions of the Papacy, which saw the Holy Land filled with pagan Muslims. They were sent out in the hopes of procuring riches from “the land of Milk and honey” to quote the Pope.

    “It seems you agree with the actions of the Crusaders?”

    No but I disagree with the myths of the crusades, especially since quite a few muslims will whine about the crusades 24/7 but never mention islamic atrocities.

    “Or you blame Muslims for being massacred by them?”

    How interesting that you left out massacres committed by muslims or do you think that they just wanted to be pals?

44. Barry Lyndon Says:
    October 2nd, 2009 at 12:07 am

    “You try and bring up the lives of Jews in Europe as more tolerant than in the Middle East. How absurd!”

    There were European countries that were far more tolerant, Wales is an example, the Jews there didn’t have to live under dhimmitude.

    “That Jews lived in relatively more tolerant conditions in Muslim lands than in Europe”

    Oh really? So Maimonides was lying? Forcing people to pay a poll tax and enduring Jim Crow like status isn’t tolerance, it’s oppression. And yes European countries such as Wales were far more tolerant and while dhimmitude still existed in the 18th century Britain passed the Jewish Naturalization Act of 1753.

    “is not in contention except by the likes of Bat Ye’or and revisionists such as yourself.”

    I’ve never read Bat Ye’ or and if anyone’s a revisionist here it’s you, dhimmitude is anything but tolerance, ask a Copt or a Hindu.

    “Ireland was the only tolerant place in the whole of Europe”

    No it was only one example, Wales and Scotland are other examples and as I pointed Britian passed the Jewish Naturalization Act 1753 when islamic nations were oppressing Jews under dhimmitude.

    “and even there as you show there were pograms.”

    There was only one pogram; the limerick pogrom which (if memory serves) occured in the 20th century and it was widely criticized outside of Ireland.

    “The boycott was condemned by many in Ireland, among them the influential Standish O’Grady in his paper All Ireland Review, depicting Jews and Irish as “brothers in a common struggle”. The Land Leaguer Michael Davitt (author of The True Story of Anti-Semitic Persecutions in Russia), in the Freeman’s Journal, attacked those who had participated in the riots and visited homes of Jewish victims in Limerick.[11] His friend, Corkman William O’Brien MP, leader of the United Irish League and editor of the Irish People, had a Jewish wife, Sophie Raffalovic.

    Father Creagh was moved by his superiors initially to Belfast and then to an island in the Pacific Ocean. In 1914 he was promoted by the Pope to be Vicar Apostolic of Kimberley, Western Australia, a position he held until 1922.[12] He died in Wellington, New Zealand in 1947.

    Joe Briscoe, son of Robert Briscoe, the Dublin Jewish politician, describes the Limerick episode as “an aberration in an otherwise almost perfect history of Ireland and its treatment of the Jews”.[13] Robert Briscoe was a prominent member of the IRA during the Irish War of Independence and the Irish Civil War. He was sent by Michael Collins to Germany in 1920 to be the chief agent for procuring arms for the IRA. Briscoe proved to be highly successful at this mission and arms arrived into Ireland in spite of the British blockade”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Ireland#Limerick_Pogrom

    “The whole of the Middle East was a sea of Irelands and better!”

    Dhimmitude was better? What fantasy world are you in? How is enduring Jim Crow like status and paying a poll tax better?

    “That is why Maimonides went from Spain, where he saw an oppressive and aberrant group take power to Egypt and Salahdin where he was treated with the utmost respect. So you bringing that up actually goes against you.”

    Wrong, did you even read the article? Maimonides fled spain not because of European oppression but because of islamic oppression and he considered the muslim nations to be worse than European nations.

    “More Islamophobia.”

    So it’s islamophobia to point out facts? I’m not a bigot like Robert Spencer and I don’t appreciate being called one.

    “Trying to link Muslims with Nazis in a forever link that goes way back.”

    It’s historical fact, apart from Amin Al Husseini, thousands of Bosnian muslims joined the nazis and muslim pro-nazi groups sprang up in the middle east and to this very day leading prominent neo nazis express pro-islamic sentiments.

    “You impugn all Muslims as Nazis, have you no shame?”

    I didn’t say all muslims are nazis; I simply pointed out historical fact and it’s also a fact that muslims were on both sides and to be fair I probably should have mentioned that. Also it amuses me how you whine about the crusades but turn a blind eye to the muslims who joined the nazi army, interesting double standard.

    “Churchill’s comments show him to be an anti-Semite yet you continue to use him as a reference?”

    Where did I use him as a reference?

    “Churchill was a supremacist, a colonialist and you admire him?”

    I don’t.

    “Muhammad did not exterminate the Jews of Arabia.”

    Oh he did.

    “How ridiculous can you get Barry?”

    Hmmm ridiculous, a perfect word for someone who thinks that forcing people to pay a tax and making them live under jim crow like status is tolerance.

    “Stop with the Islamophobia and come to your senses.”

    Can you please stop with the weak accusations of bigotry? Mature debates should take place without attempts to paint your opponent as a ‘wacist’, it’s tedious and immature, debates are fought with facts not weak attempts to demonize your opponent.

45. Ustadh Says:
    October 2nd, 2009 at 10:10 am

    “There were European countries that were far more tolerant, Wales is an example, the Jews there didn’t have to live under dhimmitude.”

    No they weren’t. Spanish Inquisition and the various progroms from Ireland to Germany, the Holocaust were not more tolerant than dhimmitude. If that were the case the fleeing Jews of Spain and Sicily would have gone to Wales or other so called “tolerant” European nations, instead the went to Istanbul and the Ottoman Empire, or the Maghreb.

    “Oh really? So Maimonides was lying?”
    Bringing Maimonides up hurts your case. (by the way I never said he fled because of European problems) Maimonides was an admirer of Islam, that is why when he left Spain because of the take over by an aberrant group not representative of Andalusian history of convencia he WENT TO SALAHIDIN IN EGYPT, not to Europe. He had never lived in the feudal European countries and of course didn’t want to knowing the plight of his fellow Jews there. Maimonides was full of praise for Salahadin. The link you provide goes to an extremist Israeli website, hardly a reliable link. It also references Bat Ye’or as an expert on Dhimmitude, the conspiracy theorist and racist! That is what you want us to rely on! Ridiculous! For all your statements pleading innocence from bigotry and Islamophobia, your highly subjective arguments and references show you for you who truly are.

    I’ve debunked your other ridiculous and Islamophobic accusations of trying to link all Muslims as Nazis in another post, and yes that is Islamophobic and as long as you continue to attempt to link Muslims as being somehow major players in Nazism and for the Third Reich I will continue to call you out on it. The only reason you do so is because supporters of Israel want to tie Muslims to the Western fascism of the past to justify their own inhumane policies towards the Palestinians.

46. Ustadh Says:
    October 2nd, 2009 at 10:10 am

    Barry,
    I will answer your other ridiculous comment when I get the chance.

47. Barry Lyndon Says:
    October 2nd, 2009 at 11:29 pm

    “Spanish Inquisition”

    Spain was only one part of Europe.

    “and the various progroms from Ireland”

    Did you even read my post? Ireland only had one pogrom in the 20th century and in the words of Joe Briscoe, son of Robert Briscoe, the Dublin Jewish politician, an “an aberration in an otherwise almost perfect history of Ireland and its treatment of the Jews”.

    “to Germany the Holocaust were not more tolerant than dhimmitude.”

    Where did I mention Germany? I didn’t say that every European nation was tolerant I simply pointed that there are European nations who were more tolerant of Jews. Not to mention there’s the matter of islamic slavery, while Europe produced the abolitionist movement (Poland banned the practice in the 15th century) and the British empire fought against it on the other hand slavery flourished in islamic lands (slavery still openly existed in Saudi Arabia in the 1960s).

    “If that were the case the fleeing Jews of Spain and Sicily would have gone to Wales or other so called “tolerant” European nations, instead the went to Istanbul and the Ottoman Empire, or the Maghreb.”

    Most likely they went to istanbul because that was all they could afford, look at a map, notice how far Ireland or Britian is from Sicily or Italy?

    “Maimonides was an admirer of Islam”

    Then why did he think that conditions in Muslims lands were worse for Jews? Also here’s one of his experiences with islam:

    “The Almohades from Africa conquered Córdoba in 1148, and threatened the Jewish community with the choice of conversion to Islam, death, or exile.[9] Maimonides’s family, along with most other Jews, chose exile.”

    And you expect me to believe he loved islam?

    “Maimonides was full of praise for Salahadin.”

    Salahadin was his meal ticket of course he praised him.

    “The link you provide goes to an extremist Israeli website”

    What website would that be? Also you support lebanese tyranny, you’re in no position to dictate what is or isn’t extremist.

    “hardly a reliable link.”

    If it’s so unreliable refute the facts in the article.

    “It also references Bat Ye’or as an expert on Dhimmitude, the conspiracy theorist and racist!”

    She was only one of the references.

    “That is what you want us to rely on! Ridiculous!”

    She wasn’t the only reference, if the article is so false try refuting it instead of whining.

    “For all your statements pleading innocence from bigotry”

    You’ve made pro-hezbollah statements, you’re in no position to ramble about bigotry.

    “and Islamophobia”

    Yeah I’m an anti-muslim bigot that must be why I criticized Rob Spencer.

    “your highly subjective arguments and references show you for you who truly are.”

    Give me an example of my ’subjective arguments’.

    “I’ve debunked your other ridiculous and Islamophobic accusations of trying to link all Muslims as Nazis in another post”

    Only in your own mind, the facts are that apart from Husseini there were muslims who were very pro-nazi, deal with it and to this day prominent neo-nazis such as David Duke express pro-islamic and pro-palestinian sentiments.

    “and yes that is Islamophobic”

    Your weak accusations of bigotry only lower the quality of the debate stick to facts rather than trying to lump me in with Robert Spencer.

    “and as long as you continue to attempt to link Muslims as being somehow major players in Nazism and for the Third Reich I will continue to call you out on it.”

    For the zillionth time I didn’t say that all muslims were pro-nazi, I simply pointed that a significant number of muslims were involved with the third reich.

    “The only reason you do so is because supporters of Israel want to tie Muslims to the Western fascism of the past to justify their own inhumane policies towards the Palestinians.”

    As you’ve shown in the Bat Ye Or post, you support Hezbollah and Lebanon and yet you whine about Israel? That’s about as hypocritical as it gets.

48. Danios Says:
    October 3rd, 2009 at 6:53 am

    Barry, you don’t know anything about Islam or Islamic history, except for what you have read on the internet. That much is very clear. You keep using terms like “dhimmitude” (a term invented by Bat Ye’or) and arguing that dhimmis lived under “Jim Crow laws,” which clearly shows that you believe Bat Ye’or’s nonsense, all of which has been debunked by credible historians. My next article–after the one I’m about to publish in a couple days–will debunk your arguments about Jim Crow laws and “Dhimmitude.” Again, you don’t know anything but you think you do.

    You deny reading Bat Ye’or, yet you use a term that she created, i.e. “dhimmitude.” What a liar. But I actually believe you that you’ve never read her work, because you’ve only read websites that base their articles on her “research.”

    -Danios.

49. Danios Says:
    October 3rd, 2009 at 6:59 am

    “For the zillionth time I didn’t say that all muslims were pro-nazi, I simply pointed that a significant number of muslims were involved with the third reich.”

    You mention that “a significant number of muslims were involved with the third reich”, but fail to mention that (1) an even greater number of Muslims fought the Third Reich, and (2) an even greater number of Christians were involved with the Third Reich, which nullifies any of your pathetic attempts to link Islam to the Third Reich.

    I think Barry should be banned from the site, and I hope the admin does that. He’s just a Glenn Beck type and there is no point in trying to discuss anything with him. This is not a debate site.

    -Danios.

50. Lex, Agent of Chaos Says:
    October 3rd, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    Benji–Atlas Shrugged–and got two black eyes!

    I want to make a general apology at this point for having for almost 2 years having my brain taking over by the loons, writing for and with them, editing material, and defending Pammycakes all over the place. And transcriptions. I’m trying very, very hard to atone for my sins (though I wear the headscarf just because I like it, not for some twisted mental reason).

    Yes, I too was a loon. At least I didn’t have a watch site though. (bows and curtsies to those present)

51. Barry Lyndon Says:
    October 3rd, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    Also as it turns out Bat Ye’ Or didn’t come up with the dhimmi word, Bachir Gemayel.

    “Lebanon is our homeland and will remain a homeland for Christians… We want to continue to christen, to celebrate our rites and traditions, our faith and our creed whenever we wish… Henceforth, we refuse to live in any dhimmitude!”

    Bachir said that in 1982, while Bat Ye’ Or first used it in 1983.

52. Danios Says:
    October 4th, 2009 at 9:14 am

    So you are telling me that you read the term “Dhimmitude” from Bachir Gemayel? Or will you quote what came right after where you got that from? Which says:

    “The concept of “dhimmitude” was introduced into Western discourse by the writer Bat Ye’or in a French-language article published in…1983. The term was used in English as early as 1985 in a book review by Prof. James E. Biechler in the Journal of Ecumenical Studies, in which he praised Ye’or’s work”

    C’mon, let’s be real.

    Anyways, I think you should be banned for harassing other members accusing them of supporting terrorists. When the Israel and Hezbollah war went on, many Muslims sided with Hezbollah, just because they thought Israel was a bigger terrorist.

    -Danios.

53. Barry Lyndon Says:
    October 4th, 2009 at 9:17 am

    Pamela also supports and praises that waste of space Sarah Palin, isn’t it hypocritical of her to claim to be against islamic extremism, while supporting Palin who has extremist beliefs and attends a talibanesque church?

    “But Pastor Kalnins has also preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11 terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war “contending for your faith;” and said that Jesus “operated from that position of war mode.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

    But all that’s okay with Pam, because Palin’s white, female and total nut like her, anyone who isn’t like Pam’s twisted little right wing tribe is one of the ‘others’ and someone to be demonized.

54. Danios Says:
    October 4th, 2009 at 9:38 am

    To clarify: I do not support Hezbollah, nor did I even support them in the Israel-Lebanon war. My view is that even though Israel is to blame in whole for invading other countries, nonetheless Hezbollah is to blame for giving Israel the excuse to do that. Hezbollah lobbed rockets, and then hid in their holes when Israel invaded, leaving the Lebanese people to deal with the consequences.

    Nonetheless, all I am saying is that if–in the specific context of an Israel-Lebanese war–some Muslims supported Hezbollah, not wholly but just in this specific war, then I wouldn’t think it’s justified to point at them and say “terrorist supporter!” It would be like an American supporting communist Russia over Nazi Germany. It’s supporting the lesser of two evils.

    As for my views about Israel-Palestine in general, I am a supporter of the two state solution, and also believe that the Palestinians should adopt non-violent forms of resistance on the Gandhian model.

    Sincerely,
    Danios.

55. Danios Says:
    October 4th, 2009 at 9:51 am

    One more thing, Barry:

    You defended yourself by saying that it was Bachir Gemayel who came up with the term “Dhimmitude.” You have now taken yourself out of the frying pan and into the fire. At least Bat Ye’or hasn’t actually killed anyone. Bachir Gemayel was a war criminal.

    He led the Phalangists who ambushed a bus killing over two dozen Palestinian civilians inside of it, actions which culminated in the Lebanese Civil War. Gamayel was responsible for the Black Saturday massacre, and he would later collude with another war criminal, none other than Ariel Sharon, the same Mr. Sharon who orchestrated the Sabra and Shatila massacres with the help of the Phalangists.

    So congratulations on using a term coined by a war criminal, and introduced to the Western world by a lunatic, Bat Ye’or. But let’s be honest for a second: you got the term from JihadWatch.

    But it’s more than just your use of terminology, it’s also your concepts. More on that later, when I publish my articles on the subject, which should within the month, if not two weeks.

    Sincerely,
    Danios.

56. Ustadh Says:
    October 4th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    Barry arguing with you is like talking to a wall, and your writing is like hearing a broken record. I can sum up your talking points:

    -Muslims have never contributed anything to humanity. Those Muslims who did, no matter if they self-identified as Muslims, are according to you, a non-Muslim trying to speak on their behalf, ‘Muslims’ only in name.
    -Muslims, spurred by their religion have within them an ingrained anti-Semitism no matter how many times they denounce it. They can’t be trusted because, again, they’re Muslims and probably lying, you can’t trust what a Muslim says.
    -Muslims have been worse persecutors of Jews and other minorities than Europe where over 6 million Jews were killed in the holocaust by Europeans. Worse than a Europe that created the ghetto, the pogroms, the blood libels, the protocols of Zion which were previously unknown to the Muslim world.
    -Muslims are Nazis and were a central part of the Third Reich.
    -Maimonides hated Islam even though he sought sanctuary with Salahadin, the liberator of Palestine from the Crusaders and sung his praises.
    -The Crusades were defensive, even though they were undertaken unprovoked by Muslims. The Pope declared “go to the land of Milk and Honey and rescue it from the pagans” and it was defensive. Germans, English, Irish people never attacked by those in Palestine were fighting a defensive war according to you. When they looted and massacred the Byzantian Orthodox Christians they were acting defensively.
    -Paint any criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism.

    These are some of your talking points Barry. All of them spring from your insipid hatred for Muslims, and all are the clear traits of an Islamophobe.

    Firstly, you still don’t seem to get it. Al-Khwarizimi, yes, a Muslim to your disbelief is considered to be the founder of Algebra. Algebra it self comes from the Arabic word “Al-Jabr” one of the names of Allah. You have a peculiar way of thinking about knowledge. You imply that all that is to be known about a subject is learned, known at the moment of its inception or as you ridiculously state “invented.” Knowledge is a field which is learned and advanced over time, algebra had an incredibly long gestation period. You honestly think the “algebra” of the Babylonians is what we know today? You state correctly that the first known society to use zero were the Indians, something that the Babylonians didn’t have. Babylonians failed to develop symbols to express their craft, it took the work of Diophantus and especially Al-Khwarizimi who helped form what we know as abstract algebra. His book “Al-Jabr wa Muqabala” is what laid the ground work for what we know as modern Algebra.
    “The term algebra is derived from the name of one of the basic operations with equations (al-jabr) described in this book. The book was translated in Latin as Liber algebrae et almucabala by Robert of Chester (Segovia, 1145) hence “algebra”, and also by Gerard of Cremona. A unique Arabic copy is kept at Oxford and was translated in 1831 by F. Rosen. A Latin translation is kept in Cambridge.
    The al-jabr is considered the foundational text of modern algebra. It provided an exhaustive account of solving polynomial equations up to the second degree, and introduced the fundamental methods of “reduction” and “balancing”, referring to the transposition of subtracted terms to the other side of an equation, that is, the cancellation of like terms on opposite sides of the equation.”
    “It was a revolutionary move away from the Greek concept of mathematics which was essentially geometry.”
    “Al-Khwarizmi’s text can be seen to be distinct not only from the Babylonian tablets, but also from Diophantus’ Arithmetica. It no longer concerns a series of problems to be resolved, but an exposition which starts with primitive terms in which the combinations must give all possible prototypes for equations, which henceforward explicitly constitute the true object of study. On the other hand, the idea of an equation for its own sake appears from the beginning and, one could say, in a generic manner, insofar as it does not simply emerge in the course of solving a problem, but is specifically called on to define an infinite class of problems.”
    That is one history lesson for you today.

    On the issue of the Renaissance Bazaar, I know you don’t want to read it because it challenges you. The ones who view it as revisionist are those Eurocentric scholars that have been peddling the same or a variation on the same theory of Burkhardt (originator of the Eurocentric view of the renaissance) who even the reviewer of this book agreed “didn’t get everything right.”

    The factual errors are just that, most are very minor and in my opinion some are overstated by the reviewer, such as the fall of Istanbul, Jerry Brotton never wrote that it “fell” on 28 May 1453, he wrote that it was captured that day which it was, it officially fell the NEXT DAY on 29, May. Factual errors don’t make a book fiction, a gross accusation coming from someone who hasn’t even read the book and also one that even this harsh reviewer didn’t use.

    Nonetheless, fine don’t read it, there are others who have highlighted the very same thesis, read Lisa Jardine’s book “Worldly Goods, A New History of the Renaissance” or her other works such as “Global Interests:Renaissance.” If you have a problem with scholarship you will have one with her. Or read some of the scholars that the reviewer of the very same article you linked recommended, Deobrah Howard, and Julian Raby. For instance take a look at Deborah Howard’s, “Venice and the East: The Impact of the Islamic World on Venetian Architecture.”

    The fact is, and these erudite scholars of the renaissance proclaim, the renaissance would not have occurred if it weren’t for the cross-fertilization and exchange between the Muslim world and Europe. Europe would still be using Roman numerals, would have lost the translations of the Greek philosophers, the art which was so central to the renaissance would not be what it is today. This is not to deny the ingenuity of indigenous Europe and its creativity but it challenges the conservative, Eurocentric idea that all the Renaissance happened because of some Italian artisans and merchants.

57. Barry Lyndon Says:
    October 4th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    “To clarify: I do not support Hezbollah, nor did I even support them in the Israel-Lebanon war.”

    I didn’t say that you did I was talking about Ustadh.

    “You defended yourself by saying that it was Bachir Gemayel who came up with the term “Dhimmitude.” You have now taken yourself out of the frying pan and into the fire. At least Bat Ye’or hasn’t actually killed anyone. Bachir Gemayel was a war criminal.”

    I know and I didn’t pick it up from jihad watch or bat ye or, I’ve seen the word on quite a few pro-Islam websites.

58. Barry Lyndon Says:
    October 4th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    “-Muslims have never contributed anything to humanity.”

    I didn’t say that, it’s just that the contribution are dwarfed by Asian and European achievements. And like I posted before so many ‘muslim’ contributions aren’t muslim in origin, ‘arabic’ numerals for example came from India.

    “Those Muslims who did, no matter if they self-identified as Muslims, are according to you, a non-Muslim trying to speak on their behalf, ‘Muslims’ only in name.”

    I pointed how great Arab thinkers such as Al-Razi (a rationalist) were very much heretics, his writings on the falsity of prophets were widely condemned and yet today apologists try to credit his genius to islam.

    “Muslims, spurred by their religion have within them an ingrained anti-Semitism no matter how many times they denounce it. They can’t be trusted because, again, they’re Muslims and probably lying, you can’t trust what a Muslim says.”

    Where on Earth did I say that?

    “Muslims have been worse persecutors of Jews and other minorities than Europe where over 6 million Jews were killed in the holocaust by Europeans.”

    First off you’re equating Europe in general to Nazi Germany, a relatively brief point in European history, by that logic you should also equate the middle east to the period of the Armenian, Greek and Assyrian genocides. Second I didn’t say that muslims were the worst I pointed out that there were European nations that were very tolerant of Jews something I’ve explained so many times to you.

    And third Europe produced the abolitionist movement (Poland outlawed the practice as early as the 15th century) and the British empire actually fought against slavery. On the other hand slavery has flourished in the muslim world (Saudi Arabia had it until the 1960s) and only began to be outlawed due to pressure exerted by European nations such as Britain and France. To quote wikipedia:

    “Unlike Western societies which in their opposition to slavery spawned anti-slavery movements whose numbers and enthusiasm often grew out of church groups, no such grass-roots organizations ever developed in Muslim societies. In Muslim politics the state unquestioningly accepted the teachings of Islam and applied them as law. Islam, by sanctioning slavery - however mild a form it generally took - also extended legitimacy to the nefarious traffic in slaves.”

    “Worse than a Europe that created the ghetto, the pogroms, the blood libels, the protocols of Zion which were previously unknown to the Muslim world.”

    The muslim world just had a different form of anti-semitism.

    “Muslims are Nazis and were a central part of the Third Reich.”

    I didn’t say I simply pointed out that there is a connection for example the nazis had a hand in the creation of the muslim brotherhood, if I’m a bigot for stating that then where’s your condemnation of the poster who tried to make the ludicrous claim that the Nazis were a Christian movement?

    “Maimonides hated Islam even though he sought sanctuary with Salahadin, the liberator of Palestine from the Crusaders and sung his praises.”

    Maimonides’ family were forced out of their homes by muslims so I find it hard to believe he loved the religion and yes he sung his praises but most likely because Salahadin paid him very well. Let’s pretend I have a boss who’s a scientologist I don’t like his beliefs but he’s a good guy and pays me well so I tell everyone he’s a great boss, does that mean I think scientology is great? Of course not.

    “The Crusades were defensive, even though they were undertaken unprovoked by Muslims. The Pope declared “go to the land of Milk and Honey and rescue it from the pagans” and it was defensive.”

    Wrong, the First Crusade was called by Pope Urban II in 1095 in response to an urgent plea for help from the Byzantine emperor in Constantinople.

    “Paint any criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism.”

    What you posted wasn’t sane criticism of Israel, it was support of anti-semitic terrorist organization. How is that not anti-semitism? Also you paint any criticism of islam as ‘islamophobia’ see how silly that complaint of yours is?

    ” All of them spring from your insipid hatred for Muslims, and all are the clear traits of an Islamophobe.”

    Somebody who supports terrorism is no position to lecture me on hatred.

59. Barry Lyndon Says:
    October 4th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    “Firstly, you still don’t seem to get it. Al-Khwarizimi, yes, a Muslim to your disbelief is considered to be the founder of Algebra. Algebra it self comes from the Arabic word “Al-Jabr” one of the names of Allah. You have a peculiar way of thinking about knowledge. You imply that all that is to be known about a subject is learned, known at the moment of its inception or as you ridiculously state “invented.” Knowledge is a field which is learned and advanced over time, algebra had an incredibly long gestation period. You honestly think the “algebra” of the Babylonians is what we know today? You state correctly that the first known society to use zero were the Indians, something that the Babylonians didn’t have. Babylonians failed to develop symbols to express their craft, it took the work of Diophantus and especially Al-Khwarizimi who helped form what we know as abstract algebra. His book “Al-Jabr wa Muqabala” is what laid the ground work for what we know as modern Algebra.”

    I didn’t say that muslims didn’t develop Algebra, I was pointing out that it wasn’t created by muslims, savy? Like I said, civilization owes more to Asia and Europe

    “On the issue of the Renaissance Bazaar, I know you don’t want to read it because it challenges you.”

    As the review pointed it’s loaded with errors.

    “The ones who view it as revisionist are those Eurocentric scholars that have been peddling the same or a variation on the same theory of Burkhardt (originator of the Eurocentric view of the renaissance) who even the reviewer of this book agreed “didn’t get everything right.”

    Oh I see everyone who disagree with you is ‘eurocentric’? How laughable and I’m not Eurocentric since I’ve praised Asian acheivements.

    “The factual errors are just that, most are very minor and in my opinion some are overstated by the reviewer, such as the fall of Istanbul, Jerry Brotton never wrote that it “fell” on 28 May 1453, he wrote that it was captured that day which it was, it officially fell the NEXT DAY on 29, May.”

    Thinking that Arabic and Persian are the same language isn’t a ‘minor’ error and you opinion isn’t worth much since you support hezbollah.

    “Factual errors don’t make a book fiction, a gross accusation coming from someone who hasn’t even read the book and also one that even this harsh reviewer didn’t use.”

    So the reviewer doesn’t know what he’s talking about?

    “For instance take a look at Deborah Howard’s, “Venice and the East: The Impact of the Islamic World on Venetian Architecture.”

    Actually ‘islamic’ architecture isn’t islamic origin, much of it was ‘borrowed’ from Persian culture after the islamic conquest of Persia not to mention it was influenced by Byzantine and Egyptian architecture.

    “the renaissance would not have occurred if it weren’t for the cross-fertilization and exchange between the Muslim world and Europe.”

    What nonsense, it still would have happened because of the Renaissance thinkers who sought out texts from European monastic libraries and the Byzantine empire.

    “Europe would still be using Roman numerals”

    Hindu Indians created ‘arabic’ numerals not Muslims, they only fell into Arab hands because of muslim conquests.

    “would have lost the translations of the Greek philosophers”

    Wrong, Latin and Greek texts were in European monastic libraries and the Byzantine Empire, not to mention the sheer amount of texts preserved by Irish people.

    “the art which was so central to the renaissance would not be what it is today.”

    How could islamic art have influenced Renaissance art when Islamic art has focused on the depiction of patterns and Arabic calligraphy, rather than on human figures?

    “This is not to deny the ingenuity of indigenous Europe and its creativity but it challenges the conservative, Eurocentric idea that all the Renaissance happened because of some Italian artisans and merchants.”

    You’re partly right, the Renaissance did have non-european influences but they weren’t muslim influences, they were Asian.

    “What is certain, however, is that that printing with movable wooden type is documented from the eleventh century; that printing with movable metal type had been an active enterprise in Korea since 1234; that other printing technologies had Asian origins and were subsequently transmitted to the West; that a single empire (the Mongol khanates) stretched from Korea to Europe through much of the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, facilitating cross-cultural exchange across a large region; that there was considerable East-West travel, contact, and exchange during this period; that the written record of such contacts records only a fraction of what actually occurred; and that there was awareness of Asian printing in Europe in the centuries before Gutenberg.

    For all these reasons it is likely that Europe’s print revolution did not occur independently but was influenced or inspired by similar printing in Asia.”

    http://www.rightreading.com/printing/gutenberg.asia/gutenberg-asia-1-introduction.htm

60. Mughalistan Says:
    October 5th, 2009 at 9:53 am

    Muslim contributuon to humanity - here is just one reference: http://www.muslimheritage.com

61. DrM Says:
    October 20th, 2009 at 1:20 am

    It’s obvious ol’ Barry’s been too busy rewriting history in his head.

62. FromAdamToMuhammed Says:
    October 24th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    Barry Lyndon

    Maimonides was forced out by the extremist Islamic sect Al Mohads who also killed Muslims. They were defeated and Maimonides came back when Saladin invited him.

    Maimonides took the Islamic codification and applied to Judaism. After Moses, Maimonides had the greatest influence upon Judaism.

    You are very ignorant. Islamic codification was taked by the Jews, so it’s right to say, after Moses, Islam influneced Judaism the most. here are some links for you to check

    The Influence of Islamic Thought on Maimonides
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/maimonides-islamic/

    First published Thu Jun 30, 2005; substantive revision Thu Jul 14, 2005
    This essay sets out to understand Maimonides in the context of his Islamic
    philosophical milieu, and in particular, in the context of the works of
    three of the most well-known Islamic thinkers, al-Farabi (ca. 870-950),
    Avicenna (Ibn Sina) (980-1037) and Averroes (Ibn Rushd) (1126-1198). A few
    points about this selection. We will here focus on al-Farabi, Avicenna and
    Averroes since their works are arguably best known among general readers,
    and are, as such, the best context in which to put Maimonides into dialogue with a number of well-known Islamic philosophical ideas. This said, it should be noted that (a) while we know that Maimonides held a great respect for the writings of Averroes,[1] these works were most likely unknown to Maimonides until after the completion of his Guide,[2] and so cannot be thought of as having exerted influence on that work, (b) while Avicennian notions can certainly be found in Maimonides, we know too (from a letter to Ibn Tibbon) that Maimonides views Avicenna’s philosophy as of lesser value than al-Farabi’s,[3] and (c) there are, of course, other Islamic writers whose works are known to have influenced Maimonides (notably al-Ghazali (d. 1111)[4] and Ibn Bajja (d. 1138)[5]). Given Maimonides’ own self-avowed interest in al-Farabi and the influence of the latter on his thought, we will focus more on al-Farabi than on Avicenna and Averroes (keeping in mind too, of course, that al-Farabi, as the earliest of these thinkers, exerted influence on many of the ideas in Avicenna, Averroes, and other Islamic philosophers as well).

    and

    http://www.csulb.edu/~dsteiger/maimonides.htm
    Maimonides, Moreh Nevukhim, III: 27
    Maimonides refused to earn his living as a Rabbi and decided to learn most
    probably medicine by reading Arabic translations of texts by Hippocrates,
    Galen as well as Arabic works of Muhammad b. Zakariyyâ’ al-Râzî, Avenzoar
    (Ibn Zuhr), and Avicenna (Ibn Sînâ).
    During that time Maimonides, influenced by Islamic philosophical tradition, decided to consider the difficult problem of reconciling faith (îmân) and intellect (‘aql).
    Maimonides integrated many Islamic philosophical concepts into his Jewish
    philosophy.
    His three most important works are: his commentary on the Mishnah (in
    Hebrew), the Mishneh Torah (in Arabic initially and translated in Hebrew
    later) and the Guide (in Arabic). The Mishneh Torah was written for the
    common people, who do not see contradictions between philosophy and
    religion; its aim was to explain how to live in accordance with the Jewish
    Law. The Guide addressed itself to an intellectual elite which was perplexed about religion; its aim was to bring those belonging to it back to Judaism

63. SuganSpice Says:
    October 24th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    Barry Lyndon,

    Please go and enrol in a history class. You will learn that Islam is the religion that benefitted humanity the most (due to the Quran). I will give you a few links to check as you are only reading Islamophobic lies. Those who say otherwise are usually Islamophobes desperate to paint Islam in a bad light so that they can whip up support for their anti Islamic agenda, just because the Muslim countries don’t recognise Israel.

    All of the below are famed historians, Learn from scholars you idiot

    ——

    R. Briffault: The Making of Humanity.
    “The Miracle of Arabic science, using the word miracle as a symbol of our
    inability to explain achievements which were almost incredible…
    unparalleled in the history of the world.”

    “There is not a single aspect of European growth in which the decisive
    influence of Islamic civilization is not traceable”

    “It is highly probable that but for the Arabs modern European civilisation
    would never have arisen at all; it is absolutely certain that but for them,
    it would not have assumed that character which has enabled it to transcend
    all previous phases of evolution.”

    George Sarton
    It was during the period of high Muslim apogee: 8th-13th centuries that most decisive scientific inventions were made, and the foundations of modern civilisation were laid, scientists and scientific discoveries in their thousands, artistic creativity, great architecture, huge libraries,
    hospitals, universities, mapping of the world, the discovery of the sky and
    its secrets, and much more.

    The noted French historian, Gustave Ie Bon, writes of the Arab contribution
    to Modern Europe:
    Observation, experimentation and inductive logic which form the
    fundamentals of modern knowledge are attributed to Roger Bacon but it needs
    to be acknowledged that this process of reasoning was entirely an Arab
    discovery.

    H. G. Wells says in his book Milestones in Human History:

    “They advanced in medicine far beyond the Greeks, they studied science and
    the functions of various parts of the body, and preventative medicine. Many
    of the treatment methods that they used are still used by us until today.
    They used anaesthetics for their operations and they used to perform some of the most difficult surgeries that are known. “

    “Every religion that is not suited to civilization should be rejected. I
    have not found any religion that is suited to civilization except Islam. “

    ———

    Bertrand Russel in ‘History of Western Philosophy,’ London, 1948, p. 419.
    “From India to Spain, the brilliant civilization of Islam flourished. What
    was lost to christendom at this time was not lost to civilization, but quitethe contrary…
    “To us it seems that West-European civilization is civilization, but this isa narrow view.”
    ————–

    Phillip Hitti in ‘Short History of the Arabs.’
    “During all the first part of the Middle Ages, no other people made as
    important a contribution to human progress as did the Arabs, if we take this term to mean all those whose mother-tongue was Arabic, and not merely those living in the Arabian peninsula. For centuries, Arabic was the language of learning, culture and intellectual progress for the whole of the civilized world with the exception of the Far East. From the IXth to the XIIth century there were more philosophical, medical, historical, religiuos, astronomical and geographical works written in Arabic than in any other human tongue.”
    ——-
    When Dwight D. Eisenhower dedicated the Islamic Center in Washington, D.C.,
    in June 1957, his 500-word talk effused good will (”Civilization owes to theIslamic world some of its most important tools and achievements”)

    How Islam has kept us out of the ‘Dark Ages’
    http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/S/science/society/islamicscience.html

    Timeline of Islamic science and technology
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Islamic_science_and_technology

    List of Muslim scientists and philosophers
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists_and_philosophers

64. SuganSpice Says:
    October 24th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    Barry Lyndon are you Pamela Geller or Bat Yeor or Roert Spencer? Be honest in your reply please

    You said
    “I didn’t say that muslims didn’t develop Algebra, I was pointing out that it wasn’t created by muslims, savy? Like I said, civilization owes more to Asia and Europe”

    Sorry, you are in total denial. Even asia and the europeans won’t agree with you there. (see scholarly links below) And yes MUSLIMS ARE/WERE GREAT BECAUSE OF THE GIFT OF THE QURAN. Science and quran are related (see what scientiests below say) ISLAM is GREAT DUE TO THE QURAN AND THE BLESSING GOD GAVE THE PROPHET. That is why Mohammed is the most influential man in history.

    The two verses from the Quran below is God telling us we would be the impacting humanity like no other people would, and the third is a Hadeeth (oral law). History has proven the below to be true. (see article below and follow the links to learn how Islamic success is direct from Quran And Prophet.)
    Quran (Al-Baqarah 2:143) “Thus We (God) have made you a just nation, that (with the example of your lives) you be witnesses before all mankind.”
    Quran (Al ‘Imraan 3:110) “You are the best of people ever raised up for mankind; .”

    Hadeeth - Volume 9, Book 87, Number 127: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said:
    The Keys to the treasures of the world were given to me. And after me my people (Ummah) will carry those treasures from place to place.

    Distinguishing between Islam and Islamism
    By Dr Daniel Pipes
    http://www.danielpipes.org/954/distinguishing-between-islam-and-islamism

    Regarding Islam, one must begin with an understanding of the deep and abiding appeal of traditional Islam, a religion which today has close to a billion adherents. Their loyalty to Islam is quite amazing: Muslims almost never leave their faith in favor of another one. What one scholar, Patricia Crone calls “the world of men and their families,” is intensely appealing. Similarly, Ayatollah Mohammed Imami Kashani of Iran has said that “Any Westerner who really understands Islam will envy the lives of Muslims.”

    I, myself, took lessons in Cairo years ago with Sheikh Ahmad Hasan al-Baquri and through the course of those studies had some direct understanding of the accumulated wisdom, logic, and appeal of the religion.
    But the problems that we must address began 200 years ago, minus one day. The religion of Islam is essentially a religion of success; it is a winners’ religion.

    The prophet Muhammad fled the city of Mecca in A.D. 622. By 630, only eight years later, he was back in Mecca, now as ruler. The Muslims began as an obscure group in Arabia and within a century ruled a territory from Spain to India. In the year 1000, say, Islam was on top no matter what index of worldly success one looks at — health, wealth, literacy, culture, power. This association became customary and assumed: to be a Muslim, was to a favorite of God, a winner.

    ————–

    How Islamic inventors changed the world

    From coffee to cheques and the three-course meal, the Muslim world has given us many innovations that we take for granted in daily life. As a new exhibition opens, Paul Vallely nominates 20 of the most influential- and
    identifies the men of genius behind them http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article350594.ece

    The Qur’an, Knowledge, and Science
    http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/scislam.html
    ——————–
    “O Mankind! There has come to you from your Guardian-Lord an exhortation, a prescription for the minds, a guidance and beneficence for those who believe” [10:57].
    The Quranic Teachings
    http://quranicteachings.co.uk/science.htm
    —————-
    http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/default.htm
    The Bible, The Qur’an and Science
    by Dr. Maurice Bucaille
    ————
    EXPLORING THE SCIENTIFIC MIRACLE
    OF THE HOLY QUR’AN
    http://www.scienceinquran.com/
    —————–
    Miracles in the Quran
    http://www.quranmiracles.com/
    The French philosopher Gustave le Bon stated in his book The Civilization of the Arabs:

    “We must bear in mind that the Arabs and the Arabs alone are the ones who guided us to the ancient world of the Greeks and Romans. The Islamic civilization was one of the most amazing that history has ever known. “
    —————–

    The German Orientalist Sigrid Hoeneker ” The Sun of Allaah is Rising in the West”, concerning the spread of libraries in the Arab
    and Muslim world:
    “ The libraries grew in every place like plants in good soil. Translators and writers also gathered in halls that were set aside especially for them, discussing and debating as happens nowadays at academic
    conferences of the highest level. “
    —————–
    Carra de Vaux in ‘The Philosophers of Islam,’ Paris, 1921.
    “Finally how can one forget that at the same time the Mogul Empire of India (1526-1857 C.E.) was giving the world the Taj Mahal (completed in 1648 C.E.)
    …The men whose genius finds its expression in this book were far in advance of their age in the practical art of government, and they were perhaps in advance of it in their speculations about religious philosophy. the principles of tolerance, justice and humanity which prevailed during the long reign of Akbar.”

65. Barry Lyndon Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    Also here’s what a prominent scholar thinks:

    “Professor Geoffrey Sampson, who published the article There’s nothing wrong with racism, was, earlier this week, forced to resign his seat on Wealden district council in East Sussex, where he had been a Conservative member.

    In his article, the natural science processing professor described multiculturalism as “wicked madness”, said racism was “natural” and claimed black people were “less bright” than whites.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2002/may/17/raceineducation.race

    By your ‘logic’ you should agree with him, after all he’s an expert, a scholar!

66. Frank Says:
    October 28th, 2009 at 6:26 am

    Am I the only one who think Pam looks kinda biracial, herself?

67. Lex, Agent of Chaos Azagthoth Says:
    October 31st, 2009 at 10:07 am

    I can’t tell if Pammy really cares about Muslim women or not. She disrespects them for wearing hijab and uses their position in some Muslim countries (example: women not being allowed to drive in Saudi) to push her OWN agenda of bigotry against Muslims in general. She also claims that these conditions will prevail if too many Muslims reach American shores. Again, just scare-mongering “Chicken Little” tactics. Bostom and Spencer are no better.

    I sent Pamela NUMEROUS requests to join or at least post on a campaign to get a young girl in Iran out of Evin Prison (Nazanin had fought back against her would-be rapists to protect herself and her 14 year old cousin; this was while walking to the GROCERY store in Tehran. Nazanin was carrying a knife (an interesting reveal into life in Tehran) and one of the attackers later died of his wounds.

    The campaign grew and grew on MySpace and on the web site organized for it, but Pamela wouldn’t even run a story on this, despite her supposed championing of Muslim Women’s Rights. Nazanin was slated for execution and was underage and had already had a heart attack in Evin, one of the most notorious prisons in the world known for it’s brutality and body count. Pamela could’ve really helped with the kind of traffic she gets on her blog. In the end it didn’t matter, Nazanin got enough worldwide attention that she was freed and her sentence dropped.

    Meanwhile, Pamela was starting to rev up a campaign with Toad Spencer to erect a headstone for Aqsa Parvez (who was killed by family apparently) against the family’s wishes. Hell, if I were Muslim I wouldn’t accept help from Geller or Spencer either! Pu-LEEEEZE! That campaign, however, is still going (right sidebar on AS) via a grove in Israel (???) a resolution proposal and a fund drive that must have brought in big bucks. I guess as a non-profit they had to spend that money as they have, but still. There are PLENTY of human rights groups that any high traffic bloggers could be helping, but you never hear about human rights abuses that you can sign on to help out about at AS, just examples pulled out to make her bigoted points.

68. Hymie Lipshits Says:
    November 2nd, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    NOOR ALMALEKI IS DEAD

69. mike Says:
    November 5th, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    She is freaking Ugly, after spending all that money on plastic surgery she is still nasty. I think Michael Jackson looked better than her.

70. Tiffany Says:
    November 6th, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    She’s so evil. Unreal type of evil, like an exaggerated type of evil for amusment, like a Disney bad guy; Ursula? Jafar? Gastone? Maybe in her case all 3 of them in one?

71. Boh C T Says:
    November 9th, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    I am of Asian decent. I am sick and tired of proponents of the “Diversity Doctrine” The doctrine are only useful to the whites who are patting themselves on their own back screaming” I am whiter than white”. Useful to the non whites whole love to pull out the race card for their own weakness and failure. They feel fuzzy when they are patted on their heard and will rear up on their hind legs begging for “food”. When one fails there is no one to blame but their lazy self. I pay tax and do not use any medicare services, dental services ect. All that is poison to my blood and to my children. I PAY THEM with my HARD EARNED money myself. We need more decent people like Pamela Geller. She is helping society. The Diversity Doctors are making society weak aka “limp wrist” across the board. We ALL need to pay taxes so that we ALL WILL PAY less taxes. I am strong and so will my children and theirs. That is what it is because we integrate, assimilate. We practice strong and conservative family values and freedom we hold dear too. Yes we read and write “engrish” We say Shape up or Ship out. That means integrate or go back to where you came from or where you think you love to go to! CALL A SPADE A SPADE.

72. Ustadh Says:
    November 12th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Boh C T, we have no way of corroborating what you say about who you are, for all we know you could be Pam Geller, but even if you were Asian you would seem to fit into the ranks of self haters such as Michelle Malkin, an idol in the right wing and proponent of internment camps.

    I have no respect for anyone who thinks that Pamela Geller is decent. She is an evil, deceptive, lying proselytizer for bigotry and right wing extremism. Her rise as a popular blogger for the right is a signal of the death of the sanity and the decline of the “grand ole’ party.” Soon enough it will be replaced by those who wish to succeed from the Union.

73. Robert4 Says:
    November 14th, 2009 at 1:27 am

    I think Pamela is probably the best racist out there. Three cheers for Pamela and thank you to all her racist defenders for coming over here and sticking up for racism!

74. Black Knight Says:
    November 17th, 2009 at 2:27 am

    This woman must be crazy, if she went up to Malcolm and told him that he had an affair with a white woman he would’ve knocked her out.
    Her claim sounds like one of the most absurd things I have ever heard.

75. Thomas Paine Says:
    November 19th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    This is a great piece. Thank you. Geller is certifiable no doubt, though I really don’t know if she believes this stuff or she is making a buck.

    PB has a nice one on this: http://www.plunderbund.com/2009/11/17/pam-geller-does-not-deserve-my-respect/

    “Pam Geller and her pals are horrible human beings who spread hate and lies while pretending to care about the civil and religious rights of Rifqa Bary merely because she happens to be from a Muslim family. Geller and crew have absolutely no limits and will say and do whatever they think is necessary to force their culture of intolerance on the rest of us.”

76. Seductive Says:
    November 19th, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    Robert24

    Pamela is not a racist she is a bigot,

    Bigotry is differnt to racism.

    Racism = hatred and intolerance of a race
    bigotry = hatred and intolerance of a religion.

    she is anti Muslim, Muslims are a religious group, of all skin colours, also Geller has black and chinese and other non white friends, Brigette Gabriel one of her ex buddies is not the same race as Pamela, and Pamela is not white herself.

    I note a lot of people confuse racism with bigotry, the two are completely different things.

    Also from a legal standpoint in the USA, Racism is illegal, bigotry is not illegal, until laws come into place that make religious intolerance unnacceptable.

    In Canada bigotry is a crime, in the USA it is not.

    If Pamela, and the rest of these loons were in Canada, they could be prosecuted under the hate bill legislaton there, where bigotry is a crime.

77. koolmom21 Says:
    November 23rd, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    I think you are just jealous that Pamella knows more then you do. She is also well known for her honesty. She is a major blogger unlike you. No one reads this little site but the same 8 people. I found this because I Google Pamela Geller,hoping to read some more stuff she wrote. Not this hate speech of yours. Get a life and wake up to the real world.
    Islam is evil and I hope you never have to find that out the hard way. Why don’t you do some research on Islam and on Obama. Stop being so blind to the facts about Obama. The rabbit hole goes very deep. I have been down this rabbit hole for a few years now and I still can not see the whole thing.
    Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, Dr Bostom Frank Gaffney and the list go on are professionals in the rabbit hole.

78. Please_Read_More Says:
    November 23rd, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    KoolMoom, you aren’t cool? You sound like a child as well.
    Testimony to the fact that this site is popular this, piece has 80 comments. Geller is a nut, and you are a nut for believing what she says.
    You are evil.

79. Garibaldi Says:
    November 23rd, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Koolmom, drank the KOOLaid.

80. Johnny Jarvis Says:
    November 25th, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    Thank you LoonWatch!

    This is one of the first pieces that comes up when you search for Pammy! Ha.
    “Looniest blogger ever,” is kind of like Olbermann’s “Worst person in the world!” Nice

81. Robert4 Says:
    November 29th, 2009 at 10:42 am

    Seducer,

    Just because Pamela “has some black friends” doesn’t mean she isn’t a racist. She thinks her black friends are better than most black people because their shared bigotry (i.e., Their hatred of Muslims like Pamela does) makes her like them. Strom Thurmond had a black daughter who says he was always very loving to her even as he was the #1 racist in Congress.

82. Nabeela Says:
    November 29th, 2009 at 11:20 am

    Robert

    I agree with you,

    However, from what i’ve read of her posts, she isn’t a racist. Definateey an Islamophobe;

    You need to remember one thing, that the prime reason these Islamophobes are what they are, and why the blame Islam is for a simple reason. That the Muslim countries dont recognise Israel.

    The Palestinian Israeli struggle is over land, Arafats top brass was Christian, Sami Kuntar is a Druze, and Sabeel, is a Christian organisation. However, the reaosn they only target Islam and want to convince Americans it’s their enemy too, is because Muslim countries reject Israel.

    I’m not saying that the Muslim countries are necessarily right, i’m just explaining why they are primarily Islamophobes.

    Of course, we have a problem, with extremists at the moment i don’t deny that either, but that suits them, as they can use them for their own agenda to say
    “see , we told you so”

    It gives them an excuse to continue the occupation. Netanyahu is on record for saying that 9/11 was a godsend for Israel.

    Right Wing Zionists don’t want the Palestinians to have a state. because that goes against US, UK, EU, UN and nearly all Arab states foreign policies, they have to look for an excuse to contine the occupation, and rid the land of Palestinians.

    Not all Israeli’s of course, nor Jews support this, but the right wing, and certainly the extreme right wing are an insiduous cult, that needs to be capped at the root.

    So it’s a lot of issues mixed up. It isn’t just 9/11, though that was used by them to bring aobut the Iraq war.

    It doesn’t help that our own extremists play into their hands either.

83. Nabeela Says:
    November 29th, 2009 at 11:21 am

    Robert, by the way i’m “Seduced”

84. Mo Says:
    December 3rd, 2009 at 8:48 am

    (Found my way here while doing a search for her blog, which I don’t have bookmarked but should.)

    Loony? Because she tells the truth about the violent teachings of Islam? Hilarious! She’s fearless and she will continue telling that truth, as will I, and many other people.

    I will not submit!

85. Nusrat.K Says:
    December 5th, 2009 at 2:53 am

    Mo

    You are plainly a wacko if you take Pammycakes seriously. I also don’t believe your fake story that you just learned about her, you are probably one of her groveling middle age cult followers, thankfully a small group.

86. Raven Jones Says:
    December 6th, 2009 at 2:54 am

    This woman is heinous. In fact, she gives a bad name to women all over the world. It’s no surprise that Hannity and company regularly trot out a wacko such as her.

87. Mooneye Says:
    December 8th, 2009 at 2:58 am

    Lex,

    Pamela doesn’t care about Muslim women. That is a fact.

88. Karim Beacher Says:
    December 12th, 2009 at 10:51 pm

    Keep up the excellent work on this site, I just learned about it while searching for “Pamela Geller” who I saw on Hannity and Friends. The woman is plain bonkers.

    KB

89. Karim Beacher Says:
    December 12th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    One more thing, you guys should mention how this woman is a shill for Zionist propaganda. Her language is pretty much an incitement to murder.

    KB

90. Money makes the world... Says:
    December 14th, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    Pamela is into making money. I used to read her blog before, I didn’t believe everything she said, but she was entertaining at some point but she has swerved into an extremely delusional direction. I stopped reading her stuff a few years ago.

91. Robert4 Says:
    December 17th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    Nabeela/Seducer:

    I don’t deny that Pamela Geller is a religious bigot. I stand firm by my claim that she’s also a racist. She hates Arabs and she hates black people who don’t go along with her 110% in hating Arabs and Muslims. I’ve been reading her BLOG for years now and it’s just sick, vile stuff.

    And the real reason Islamophobes hate has nothing to do with Israel. In fact, most of them (including Pamela Geller, who hates all Jews who don’t go along with her 110% in hating Arabs and Muslims) hate Jews almost as much as they hate Muslims. They are bitter, hatefull, heartless people. That’s their problem. Don’t wrap their disgusting offal in the pages of “Foreign Affairs”.

92. Nabeela Says:
    December 18th, 2009 at 3:36 am

    Robert,

    Well I havn’t read Geller’s blog for years like you have, so you’re probably right. The thing is, if you are a racist or bigot, it’s easy to switich to being another. Or to exchange one bigotry with another. Most of the poeple who support the right wing Zionists are jew haters who have exchanged one bigotry for another. Orianni Fallaci is one such person that Geller embraces.

    Geller and her ilk, laud Orianni Fallaci, who was anti-Islam. But Falacci was also an anti-semite, then came 9/11 and she switched to being an Islamophobe instead, and allied herself with Israel, the obligatory step that Islamophobes take even though they don’t like Jews or they pretend to do so as a show of support.

    Falacci exchanged one bigotry for another, but of course that doesn’t bother someone with Geller’s morals, as long as they bash Islam, never mind.

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Oriana_Fallaci
    “I am angry at the Jews for many things… If you want to take the example of America, how they hold the power, the economical power in so many ways, and the press and the other kind of stuff… I never realized how it happened and they came to control the media to that point. Why?
    Playboy magazine, 1981 interview [1] [2]

    More hypocricy? You say you’ve seen instances of racism against black people from Geller, but she is openly lauding and supporting the black candidate for office, Allen West, because of his Dominionist beliefs? Loon Watch put up an article a few days ago.

    That proves what a low down opportunistic piece of trash she is. I was going to say, I wonder if Allen West even knows what she stands for, but he is no better himself, and like her, will ignore her own racism for support for office.

93. Emperor Says:
    December 23rd, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    Nabeela,

    Thanks for those links about the now dead Fallaci. It is truly remarkable how she could utter such things and then just because she switched to a pro right wing Israeli stance and disavowed her past racism she is accepted.
    This shows hypocrisy, because if any person made anti-Semitic remarks in the past and then disavowed them but still criticized Israeli policy they would continuously be crucified.

94. Nabeela Says:
    December 24th, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    Emperor yes, then Falacci would have been labelled a Jim Carter like anti-semite. Fallaci was an atheist, and she was against the meat slaughter (Kosher) which is the same as Islam. She vocalised against that, before she became an Islamophobe. I don’t hold her atheism against her, nor that she found the slaughter that we do (Halal, Kosher etc.) repugnant, because atheists and agnostics do find these practices unnecessary.

    One of the reasons Geert Wilders (groomed in Israel where has been 42 times) was lauded by Geller and her ilk, is that unlike most EUro far righters, he supported Israel and expressed support for “Judeo Christian” values, which Europeans reject anyway.

    I think it was Isi Liebler the Israeli Likud Jerusalem Post journalist, who once talked about the anti semitism of the so called “philo semites”, he came to the conclusion that “they are no more anti semite than the mainstream community of Christians”. In other words, at least the support is there, the anti-semitism will be there anyway, which is true. Well at least he was honest you could say. Others just pretend that there is a bond rather than a relation of convenience.

    In the case of Falacci, had she moved to America, she would have been a David Duke or KKK type character, always talking of jewish power and how it corrupts. She only found a bigger bogeyman..and did you know that Walid Shoebat a so called supporter of Israel, (as claimed by American neocons) has been refused a visa to visit Israel. He was exposed as a fraud by the Jeruslam Post, no less. he’s Christian, not Muslim, his mother was Chrisitian, yet Geller lauds him.

    You know i can’t help thinking in a perverse way, it makes you feel good, if you know that the forces of evil have to unite for the wrong reasons even thgouth they don’t like each other…there must be something strong and powerful, …LOL

    by the way, did you know this is the most commented article on Loon Watch, Pamela Geller has that dubious honour, the awful woman. I heard that her ex husband was arrested for murder?

95. Sauder Says:
    December 30th, 2009 at 11:36 am

    It’s amazing that apart from Barry Lyndon most people commmenting here are loons.

    As per Islam’s tradition of “tolerance”, I suggest that people here read Maimonades ‘Epistle to the Yemeni Jews’, a work in which he descfribes in great detail the oppression and intolerance Jews ( and Christians) in Muslim lands were forced to endure. Islam’s scientific and mathematical claims are also the subject of much contention. Were Islam so inclined towards academic achievements and intellectual persuits, one wonders why the Islamic world lags far behind the rest of humanity in EVERY LAST FIELD OF HUMAN scientific and technological endevour. When one begins to examine islam’s intellectual claims a little closer, one soon discovers that there is often no “there” there. The intellectual property of other cultures, intellectual properties such as “arabic” numerals, were simply appropriated and retrofitted with an arabo/islamic identity they never had. The incredible intellectual stagnation that characterises the Islamic world is, apart from a few isolated inventions, just about all there ever was.

96. Proud Muslim Says:
    December 30th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    sauder
    You are the prize loon and ignoramus here.

    “As per Islam’s tradition of “tolerance”, I suggest that people here read Maimonades ‘Epistle to the Yemeni Jews’, a work in which he descfribes in great detail the oppression and intolerance Jews ( and Christians) in Muslim lands ”

    You really need to read your history, stupid moron. That Epistle was describing a Jewish convert. I don’t believe you read it, or you would know it was written in response to a Jewish false messiah. In the epistle to Yemem, the Rambam made clear that his beliefs were not shared by Muslims, though he was calling himself a Muslim and a Messiah. Rambam referred to him as a “meshuga”.

    isn’t it ironic that all Islamophobes never bring sources, you’re too ashamed to say you use history revisers and liars, bigots like yourself, who never grace the halls of learning, are not scholars, and have no importance outside the loon crowd.

    Maimonides fled because he lived during one of the few times in Islamic history when an extremist sect took control (al mohad’s). They didn’t just make life difficult for non muslims, but also those muslims who didn’t agree with their intolerant interpretation. Maimonides fled, but he did return when Saladin invited him back. So why did he return if intolerance was the norm? SEe the Chabad website account, ive included extracts below, and hey, how come the Rambam was able to use his influence with Saladin to bring the suffering to an end if Islam is intolerant?

    ————————-
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_Yemen
    The Epistle to Yemen or Yemen Epistle (Hebrew: אגרת תימן, Iggeret Teman) was an important communication written by Maimonides and sent to the Yemenite Jews.

    It arose because of religious persecution and heresy in 12th-century Yemen. The average Jewish population of Yemen for many centuries was very small. The Jews were scattered throughout the country, but they were successful in business and acquired books about the history of their faith.

    There was a revolt against Saladin as sultan in the last quarter of the 12th century, and Shia Muslims began to persecute the Jewish faith in the Yemen at this time. At the same time, a man began preaching a syncretistic religion that combined Judaism and Islam, and claimed that the Bible had foretold his coming as a prophet.
    —————

    The Epistle Concerning Yemen
    http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/107783/jewish/Responsa.htm
    An even more famous letter by Rambam, Epistle Concerning Yemen (Iggeret Teiman), was composed as the result of similar persecutions in another Jewish community. This epistle was written in response to a query by a Yemenite sage, Rabbi Jacob al-Fayumi during a period of violent persecution and religious intolerance in his country. About the year 1168, the Jews of Yemen were confronted with a three-pronged agonizing problem. A fanatical Moslem cleric became the ruler of this distant, primitive South Arabian land and decreed that his Jewish subjects convert to Islam under the threat of harsh punishment and suffering. Their agony was compounded by a Jewish apostate who embraced Mohammedanism.

    To demonstrate his zeal for his newly adopted faith, he began preaching to the Jewish communities that Mohammed was a divinely sent prophet alluded to in the Bible and that Islam was a new, divinely revealed religion superseding Judaism. Hence, the apostate argued, the Jews should yield to the ruler’s demand and embrace Mohammedanism. Furthermore, at just about this time, an impostor appeared proclaiming himself to be the Messiah, adding to the confusion of the poor wretched masses. Rabbi Jacob al-Fayumi turned to Rambam for advice and counsel.

    …… He contemptuously dismissed and disproved the assertion that Judaism has been supplanted by Islam and showed that the claim that Mohammed is alluded to in the Bible is based upon nonsensical interpretations recognized as such even by the Moslems themselves.

    …..Rambam advised that the self-proclaimed Messiah is nothing but an impostor and no doubt a madman. He urged them to remain firm in the belief that G-d will send the true Moshiach to redeem the Jewish people from suffering in exile at the proper time.

    The epistle accomplished its purpose - the Yemenite Jews remained faithful to their religion in the face of their bitter suffering. Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon used his influence at the court of Saladin in Egypt to intervene in their behalf, and the persecution came to an end.

97. Islam built the West Says:
    December 30th, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Sauder

    “The intellectual property of other cultures, intellectual properties such as “arabic” numerals, were simply appropriated and retrofitted with an arabo/islamic identity they never had. ”

    Wow, I can see your green glow (envy) They were not just Arab, they were Persian, Indian, Afghani, Turkish, and the common bond was the religon. Islam. Omar Khayam, and Rumi were inspired by Islam to write their classics which rank amongst the greatest in history. Rumi was the most sold poet in America. That’s only one example.

    You’re just envious and jealous. The facts are there for anyone to check. You try to discredit Islamic knowledge to lend credence to your envy and bigotry. Check out the website linked to my name and read the book below, meticulously researched.

    By the way, a Muslim will know why this is so. It was foretold by the Prophet as proof of the divinity of the Quran. Islamophobes like to pretend otherwise because they want us to dump our religion or make it less attractive to others. Nobody buys. Islam attracts more converts than any other faith, and from the educated elite class.

    Science in Islam
    http://scienceislam.com/

    ———-
    BBC Four Science and Islam
    The Language of Science
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00gksx4
    ———-

    “How Islam Created the Modern World,” written by award-winning author Mark
    Graham.

    http://www.amazon.com/How-Islam-Created-Modern-World/dp/1590080432/sr=8-1/qid=1157638890/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0126589-7657723?ie=UTF8&s=books

    How Islam Created the Modern World (Hardcover)
    ~ Mark Graham (Author)
    Product Description
    In the Middle Ages, while Europe was mired in superstition and feudal chaos, Baghdad was the intellectual center of the world. It was there that an army of translators and scholars took the wisdom of the Greeks and combined it with their own cultural traditions to create a scientific, mathematical and philosophical golden age. Their accomplishments were staggering, including the development of modern medicine, chemistry, and algebra. Muslim scientists correctly calculated the circumference of the globe in the tenth century. Muslim musicians introduced the guitar and musical notation to the Europe. And Muslim philosophers invented the scientific method and paved the way for the Enlightenment. At the dawn of the Renaissance, Christian Europe was wearing Persian clothes, singing Arab songs, reading Spanish Muslim philosophy and eating off Mamluk Turkish brassware. This is the story of how Muslims taught Europe to live well and think clearly. It is the story of how Islam created the Modern World.

    About the Author
    Mark Graham is the Edgar award-winning author of ‘The Black Maria’, third in a series of historical novels which have been translated into several languages. He studied medieval history and religious studies at Connecticut College and has a master’s degree in English literature from Kutztown University. He lives in the Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania.

98. OstEuropa43 Says:
    December 31st, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    @Frank: she totally does. Must be her orange tanning lotion

    Why is she wearing that shirt (LGF) if she’s such a loon?

99. Atlas Shrugged Says:
    January 8th, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    I’m a huge fan of Ayn Rand’s work, and the objectivist philosophy. Free markets, and free will lead to growth and prosperity. More government and regulation leads to less growth and prosperity.

100. George Carty Says:
     January 9th, 2010 at 3:38 am

     @OstEuropa43:

     I suspect that that picture was taken before Charles Johnson realized what he’d unleashed and got scared…

101. Sir David Says:
     January 9th, 2010 at 7:59 am

     Pam ,sorry atlas shrugged , can you tell me where these free merkets are ?
     Then I can go out and try my free will . We only have Asda (Wallmart) where I live .
     Welcome to the real world sometime.

102. Sir David Says:
     January 9th, 2010 at 8:05 am

     Whoops should read markets my poor proofreading again

103. Lex, Agent of Chaos Azagthoth Says:
     January 12th, 2010 at 3:17 pm

     Seductive above there, I hear you loud and clear on the bigotry not equaling racism. I also read a comment (in a horrid blog war of my own) the idiotic and worn out argument that “members of the dominant culture don’t get to complain of bigotry against them.

     I (stupidly!!!) added a girl from college to my ‘friends’ after having patiently reading her blog for about a year. She’s an atheist, and not just some random atheist either (I have no problem with people who don’t believe as I do), but the shove it in your face while screaming to the world to hear insults against Christianity.

     Who knows, I run a ‘watch’ blog and am used to seeing bigoted and hateful language against religion, though usually Muslim. She presented the straw that broke this camel’s back when she added something on Christmas and I figured, hey, I help Muslims stick up for their Faith, ’bout time I did the same about mine.

     And Holy fruity underwear, she pulled a Pamela! Sheesh! First I was attacked on Facebook, next on her blog, then on MY blog (post now replaced because of the 105 comments bashing me). I’m not an evangelical, I don’t ask for much. Had my Muslim co-blogger done the same with this same person, he’d have been gang hugged and everyone’s favorite person. As it was, he defended me and took some abuse as well.

     If all’s well that ends well, what’s with things that don’t end so well?

104. Robert4 Says:
     January 23rd, 2010 at 4:15 pm

     Seducer, yes you are right.

105. AtlasFUGLY Says:
     January 26th, 2010 at 11:54 pm

     The funny thing about Pamela is she is so old and ugly but thinks she is hot. Leathery looking nasty cougar…i’m just sayin

106. LB Says:
     February 8th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

     I think it’s all very true the only ones who hate what’s being said are the ones who Want to hide this very direct truth. I guess you people don’t hear Muslims shouting Bomb, bomb the pentagon or kill the great satin (USA) and the little satin too (Israel). How about death to the west. Lets look at the Somalis peeing and pooping in a bottle Then waiting till it ferments’ to huff it and get high or that fine chew Kat. So do we Need this type of third world crap hear? O’ wait you need these types of muslims To strap on bombs and create chaos so of course this woman should be ridiculed! And it’s all ok because your man Obama will help you get them here to get your Agenda going.

107. iSherif Says:
     February 8th, 2010 at 8:31 pm

     LB, your comment is unfortunately an utter waste of the few seconds it took me to read it and the few hours it took you to write it.

     Great satin, little satin??? LOL!!

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