Andrew Bostom and "Islamic Scholar" Robert Spencer
The Right-Wing anti-Muslim loonocracy and its minions in the blogosphere have secured a new cause to rally around, ironically enough it once again involves a Muslim minor, and in this regard, the anti-Muslim blogosphere really doesn’t have a good track record. As recent history has proved, the last time the anti-Muslim blogosphere got this riled up about Muslim minors they turned up with egg on their faces.
After viewing a picture online of a wedding in Gaza, with grooms holding the hands of their young female cousins and nieces, the Islamophobia hit epic proportions with accusations of pedophilia being flung about wily-nily without nary a fact check. Tim Marshall, who reported on the wedding wrote about the Islamophobic response to the wedding,
Our report on this put it into context saying that it took place just a mile from the Israeli border and was a message from Hamas about its strength confidence and future fighters. Oh and that the brides were elsewhere. Pretty straightforward.
It never struck me for a moment that the little girls might later be described in the bloggersphere as the brides! How naive I am.
Dozens, and I mean dozens, of websites took the video of the event and wrote lurid stories about Hamas mass paedophilia with headlines about ‘450 child brides’, and endless copy about how disgusting this was, how it showed how depraved Islam is, et al, ad infinitum. Site after site jumped on the story, linking from one totally wrong load of rubbish to the next.
Robert Spencer was amongst the bloggers that falsely reported the incident as an instance of pedophilia.
The Fatimah Rifqa Bary Case
This time the case involves 17 year old Fatimah Rifqa Bary the daughter of Sri Lankan immigrants who came to America in 2000 seeking treatment for her vision problems. And before you could say “expediency,” the typical hordes of vultures started cycling, not so much out of interest for the girl’s welfare or the facts of the story, but as what they saw as a golden opportunity to reaffirm their caricature of Islam and Muslims as a dangerous cancer lurking within an otherwise good and pure Western civilization.
Fatimah, a cheerleader at New Albany High School ran away from her Columbus, Ohio home and ended up at the home of a pastor in Florida named Blake Lorenz. The details on how she ended up in Florida are still murky but what is clear is that she is leveling some very serious allegations against her family, including that she will be killed if she is returned to Ohio. The Columbus Dispatch reports in a story titled Girl Brainwashed, Parents say:
With Lorenz holding his arm tightly around her, Rifqa told WFTV-TV in Florida on Monday that she would be killed if she came home.
“They love God more than me; they have to do this,” she said. “I’m fighting for my life. You guys don’t understand.”
The family disputes these allegations and believes their daughter has been brainwashed. They state quite categorically that she is free to practice whatever faith she wants,
“We love her, we want her back, she is free to practice her religion, whatever she believes in, that’s OK,” her father, Mohamed Bary, said yesterday.
“What these people are trying to do is not right — I don’t think any religion will teach to separate the kids from their parents,” he said.
The family is not the only ones questioning the young girls allegations, Sgt. Jerry Cupp, the Chief of the Columbus Police Missing-Persons Bureau has said that Mohamed Bary (the father) “comes across to me as a loving, caring, worried father about the whereabouts and the health of his daughter.”
Robert Spencer, however, without knowing anything about the family — or the complete facts of the case — believes there is a slow motion honor killing in the making. Starting from the pre-set conclusion that he derives from his personal study of Islam, he states that Islam requires the death penalty for apostates, and that it is a dead letter only “if no one cares or is able to enforce it in a particular case.” He writes this in response to Muslim scholar M. Cherif Bassiouni, a distinguished Law professor at DePaul University and President of the International Human Rights Law Institute, who wrote in 2006 that “a Muslim’s conversion to Christianity is not a crime punishable by death under Islamic law.”
Professor Bassiouni wrote this in 2006 when a man in Afghanistan was under the penalty of death for converting to Christianity. He wrote it as part of a document that was submitted to the court in Kabul. It has also been professor Bassiouni’s opinion as early as 1983. Professor Bassiouni responded to Spencer stating,
My position on apostasy has been expressed as early as 1983, namely that at the time of the Prophet it was not considered as only changing one’s mind but that it was the equivalent of joining the enemy and thus constituting high treason. In fact, at one time the Prophet had an agreement with the people in Makkah to return to Makkah all those who came from there, who wished to return after they had converted to Islam. I and a number of other distinguished Muslim scholars have long criticized the views of the four traditional Sunni schools…It is amazing to me how apparently little good faith and intellectual honesty you are displaying in your attack upon Islam and Muslims.
Professor Bassiouni’s position is pretty straight forward, he disagrees with those Muslims and non-Muslims who believe Islam legislates death for apostates and that his and many other distinguished Muslim scholars’ opinion is that it doesn’t. This is not so hard to grasp as LoonWatch contributor Barbel notes directly addressing Spencer,
In an obvious attempt to categorically associate this situation with all Muslims you wrote:
If she is sent back to her family, she could be killed, in accord with the death penalty that is prescribed by all Muslim sects and schools for those who leave Islam.
Surely, as a “scholar” you must be aware of this verse from the Muslim holy book, the Quran:
Those who believe, then reject Faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject Faith, and go on increasing in Unbelief,- God will not forgive them nor guide them on the Way.
How would it be possible to reject faith twice or go on increasing in unbelief if one was suppose to have been killed after the first rejection? Furthermore, what purpose would withholding guidance have if the person had a death sentence anyway?
Robert, regardless of what you might want us to believe, Islamic scholars are NOT in consensus nor have they ever been in consensus over the apostasy issue. Historically, the sentence of death was only applied to people who converted from the religion AND committed espionage. Consider what the 10th century scholar Shams al-Din al-Sarakhsi had to say:
The prescribed penalties are generally not suspended because of repentance, especially when they are reported and become known to the head of state. The punishment of highway robbery, for instance, is not suspended because of repentance; it is suspended only by the return of property to the owner prior to arrest. … Renunciation of the faith and conversion to disbelief is admittedly the greatest of offenses, yet it is a matter between man and his Creator, and its punishment is postponed to the day of judgment. Punishments that are enforced in this life are those which protect the people’s interests, such as just retaliation, which is designed to protect life.
More recently, the contemporary Islamic scholar Tariq Ramadan (a man you have repeatedly tried to defame) had this to say:
I have been criticized about this in many countries. My view is the same as that of Sufyan Al-Thawri, an 8th-century scholar of Islam, who argued that the Koran does not prescribe death for someone because he or she is changing religion. Neither did the Prophet himself ever perform such an act. Many around the Prophet changed religions. But he never did anything against them. There was an early Muslim, Ubaydallah ibn Jahsh, who went with the first emigrants from Mecca to Abyssinia. He converted to Christianity and stayed, but remained close to Muslims. He divorced his wife, but he was not killed.
I know this is probably still not enough for you, so here are over a hundred more Islamic scholars who are against the death penalty for apostasy.
Of course, this doesn’t mean that this girl (or many others who are in similar situations) isn’t at serious risk. She very may well be. All it means is that the straw man version of Islam that you have created only serves to ignite more hatred and promote your own personal ideological agenda.
This highlights the absurdity that is Robert Spencer, an absurdity that projects an ominous pre-set conclusion on any heated situation that arises dealing with Muslims and castigates “all Islam” in the process without acknowledging the polyvalent interpretations that exist or the context.
Robert Spencer’s Hypocrisy on Religious Freedom
What further makes the Fatimah Rifqah Bary case one which exposes Spencer and his cronies is the hypocrisy of it all. This is being painted as a freedom of religion case, specifically the freedom to change one’s religion, but it seems in this department Spencer sounds like the pot calling the kettle black since he supports those who would restrict the freedom of religion of Muslims.
As we have written on extensively before, one of the close comrades of Spencer is neo-fascist European politician Geert Wilders. Spencer is on the record stating his admiration for Wilders who he sees as the only European politician standing up for Western Civilization.
"Under his wing": Geert Wilders & Robert Spencer
Wilders is by all accounts an odious individual who calls for the out right denial of religious freedom to Muslims. He has called for the banning of the Quran which he compares to Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf, he has also stated that, “Freedom of Religion should not apply to Islam.” He is also working to end Muslim immigration and strip Muslims in Dutch society of their citizenship.
This is Spencers friend. Spencer has also participated in forums with Wilders, conferences, writes articles about him, has interviewed him and cites him often. In one article Spencer wrote in response to CAIR‘s Ibrahim Hooper he says,
I didn’t actually have anything to do with that conference in Florida, but Hoop could just say straight out that I support Wilders. And so should anyone who holds dear the Western values that are threatened by Islamic supremacists.
So is the Fatimah Rifqah Bary case another instance of Robert Spencer jumping the gun or is her life legitimately under threat? The courts will resolve that question, but Spencer has shot his credibility in this department with a track record of obfuscation, innuendo and misrepresentation and is wholly unreliable.
Will Spencer also back track on his position that “all Muslim sects and schools of thought” legislates the death penalty for apostates and concede that there is a valid counter opinion such as the one articulated by Professor Bassiouni? Finally, will Spencer quit the charade that he is a democrat that cares for Freedom of Religion when in fact his position is to support those who would deny religious freedom?
It seems that per his practice, Spencer seized on this case to further his well-oiled agenda that Islam is evil and Muslims are backward. As the story of Fatimah Rifqah Bary plays out we will see more clearly that the anti-Muslims are not motivated by her welfare but rather to confirm their warped hatred of Islam and Muslims.
August 14th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
this was a great read with very strong arguments. This site is becoming one of my favorites.
August 14th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Thank you for this wonderful article. I wonder if ole’ Spencer is losing his touch, if he ever had one. He seems a little more sloppy, especially after the whole debacle of the War between him and his former buddy Charles Johnson at LGF.
It is quite sickening to see them constantly attempting to co-opt and take advantage of a story of possible human suffering to further their distorted agendas. And when the story blows up in their face like the last one did and this possibly can it is funny to see their desperate reactions and attempts to cover up or deny that it was all from hate.
August 15th, 2009 at 1:38 am
Excellent article. Very in depth and to the heart of the issue. To me it seems pretty obvious that Spencer has jumped the gun on this one. Fatimah’s parents don’t seem like the kind of over bearing sadistic “honor killing” types. They just don’t fit the description. For one they let their daughter be a cheerleader, something which a conservative Muslim family would oppose. This also is the impression that the Sgt of the police unit their holds.
Something about the Xenos Church group just doesn’t sit well with me. Previous parents have had issues with their cultish behavior and taking away their children as well. Spencer would be shocked that these are the type of Christians that really don’t hold Catholics or Orthodox Christians in high regard.
I love the site, keep the articles coming. Check out the link: http://www.topix.com/religion/islam/2009/08/robert-spencer-anti-muslim-loonocracy-and-the-fatimah-r-bary-case
August 15th, 2009 at 5:11 am
Can 1.3 billion people be wrong? Yes.
by Sherry Shriner
Islam Lies
Islam..a Beast
They start accumulating in countries and then start terrorizing it with gangs of rapists, violence and civil disruption.
They are possessed, demon possessed. They seek to spread fear and violence, they are pawns of the devil who feeds off of the fear and suffering they create for power.
Just as their leader, Mohammad, they use “God” as an excuse to prey on innocent people. Mohammad was a robber and a thief, his followers are no different.
It is not the Most High God they serve, but Satan.
Don’t you think the Arabs make it hard for themselves to garner sympathy from the western civilized nations when all they do is preach the death and destruction of those very nations?
See the Koran Film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCrCsTMokTU&feature=related
Their religion is one of hate, not love. The Talmudic Jews preach that anyone not a (Kazaar) Jew as they are should be killed. Should we let the two races alone to just go at it amongst themselves and kill each other off?
Every religion thinks they are the only ones serving the true God and going to heaven. The Jews, the Moslems, the Catholics, the Protestants. God does not live in a book, He lives in the hearts of those who truly love and worship Him. Religions are used to manipulate and control mankind to further political agendas.
Get out of RELIGION and get into a RELATIONSHIP with the One true God. Ask HIM to teach you the truth in ALL things.
Read The Coming Arab Beast
There are 5 Beasts Coming: An Arab beast, an Aramean Beast, an Aryan Beast, a Black Beast, and a Female Beast.
August 15th, 2009 at 10:40 am
The silliest comment on the entire article….
“Robert, regardless of what you might want us to believe, Islamic scholars are NOT in consensus nor have they ever been in consensus over the apostasy issue..”
Does the Quran say death to apostates? NO.
Did Muhammad say death to apostates? YES.
Muslims should change their tag line to:
There is only one Muhammad and Allah is his homie.
There IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION….scholars always ignore that aya.
August 16th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
I think you guys in this website got it wrong.You talk against Islamophobia.I don’t know if you are Muslim or not but there is NOTHING wrong with criticizing Mohammed and the Koran.Islam is a set of IDEAS,not a person.Ideas that a book isby God,a man is a prophet.
I am against discrimination against someone based on religion,MUSLIMOPHOBIA,but not against Islamophobia.
Islam is easily shown to be false.The Koran says Mohammed is prophesized in the gospel.I have analyzed it.It’s an error.I can prove it,it’s very easy.So just one error proves Islam is false.
That’s why Muslims are always against people saying “Mohammed is not in the gospel for X reasons”.They know it is the truth.And they say “Islamophobi.”
August 17th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
@Maturin. Thank you for commenting. You’re absolutely correct in your assertion that there is nothing inherently wrong with criticism by itself. Criticism is necessary for growth and is vital for preventing intellectual stagnation. However, when an individual presents distorted facts as criticism it becomes reasonable to question the motives of that individual. Islamophobes present a distorted version of Islam and claim that their rendition is what Islam is truly about. If this distortion is left unchecked it can lead to unwarranted discrimination against Muslims (some would argue that it has already done so).
As for your second statement about Mohammed not appearing in the Gospel, please take a look at this site:
http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/Muhammad_Bible.HTM
I can’t vouch for the accuracy of the statements Dr.Badawi makes, but it might also be worth noting that Muslims argue that the present day Bible has changed from what it was in the past. This is an assertion that has now been widely accepted by most Biblical scholars (outside of the Fundamentalist community).
Thank you again for commenting and I hope you will continue to provide us with your feedback.
August 17th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
I think Robert Spencer is exposed here again. His assertion that “all Muslim sects” support death for apostasy is totally proven wrong. However, cult followers of Islamophobic ideologues will always believe Islam is the source of all evils no matter what you tell them. They are very hard hearted and close minded.
August 17th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
I think Yusuf Abdi hit the nail on the head. Barbel, I very much appreciate your comment, very good points there. And Garibaldi, Grade A exposee once again! Keep’em coming LW!
August 18th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Hello Barbel:
Thanks for the reply.But I was surprised you gave me a link to an article about Mohammed being in the gospel.I could be wrong but I think you are one of the people who run the website,and that this website is a non-Muslim,liberal(and I am a liberal),even leftist website.
Though I could be wrong and got into a different house.About distorting Islam,it’s hard to say because the Muslims themselves give different ideas.
DEATH FOR APOSTATES
I don’t know if you know this but in the Koran there is a “no compulsion in religion” phrase.Great,I like it.Yet the 4 Sunni schools,what was MAINSTREAM Sunni Islam and apaprently still is(that of 90% of Muslims) advocated death for apostates.That’s a clear contradiction with what is in the Koran.I could be wrong but I think they say that verse has been ANNULLED.
ABROGATION
I will explain,in Islam they have the idea of ABROGATION of verses.It appears in their book.That would explain why the 4 Sunni schools(plus the Shias,who also accept death for apostates)are in favor.They believe it has been abrogated.Or if not,then they redefine the limits of compulsion in the verse (playing with the meaning)in such a way as to allow execution of apostates.That gives the historical record of Islam regarding human rights (in this case freedom of speech and freedom of religion(to leave it )a bad image.
August 19th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
An excellent article, I fully expect these fools to be wiping egg off their face in a few days. On to more comical issues: Spencer reminds me of the Penguin from Batman, both are small ugly round men who waddle around.
August 23rd, 2009 at 7:44 am
Just a comment on the Fatimah Rifqa Bary video:
Did anyone else see the raw footage of her interview while the Pastor was holding her arm? She sounds completely brainwashed! She rambled on about how since she converted, her blood was now “halal” and now her parents *had* to kill her if they loved Allah more than her and if they love her more than Allah (she says it both ways), because it’s an amazing honour to kill her. WTF? Also, during the interview, she turns to someone on the side, presumably a member of the Church, asking him to explain further what the Quran says about honour killings. News flash you brainwashed moron: there is NOTHING in the Quran about honour killing. Also, why doesn’t anyone ask them to clarify why she’s using the term “honour killing” which is much different from apostasy. Was this girl ever a practicing Muslim? Does she even know what she’s talking about or is she just regurgitating the notes being fed to her?
It’s amazing to me how no one has pointed out that the girl’s off her rocker.
Watch the raw footage here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYFVPt9yayg
August 23rd, 2009 at 7:51 am
Also, a reply to Maturin:
You said: “I don’t know if you know this but in the Koran there is a “no compulsion in religion” phrase.Great,I like it.Yet the 4 Sunni schools,what was MAINSTREAM Sunni Islam and apaprently still is(that of 90% of Muslims) advocated death for apostates.That’s a clear contradiction with what is in the Koran.I could be wrong but I think they say that verse has been ANNULLED.”
No scholarly opinion can “annul” a holy verse of the Quran. Sorry, that’s not how it works. The Sunni schools derive their reasoning from other sources, but they cannot and have not “annul” any verse of the Quran. Remember, Muslims believe that the Quran is the Word of God, so how could a human being’s opinion change that? The “kill whoever changes his religion” is not about freedom of religion, but about high treason.
Secondly,
You said: “I will explain,in Islam they have the idea of ABROGATION of verses.It appears in their book.That would explain why the 4 Sunni schools(plus the Shias,who also accept death for apostates)are in favor.They believe it has been abrogated.Or if not,then they redefine the limits of compulsion in the verse (playing with the meaning)in such a way as to allow execution of apostates.That gives the historical record of Islam regarding human rights (in this case freedom of speech and freedom of religion(to leave it )a bad image.”
No, it is not an idea adopted by all Muslims, but only by certain scholars (admittedly, many of whom are quite influential). However, since you brought up abrogation and the idea that old verses are abrogated by new verses, can you please tell me why you think the “No compulsion in religion” verse is a Makki verse, when it was revealed in Medina (hence, being a latter verse and therefore unaffected by abrogation)?
September 5th, 2009 at 1:40 am
It’s worth to know HONOR KILLINGS IN CHRISTIANITY:
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) … Read More
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
AND WHAT DOES QURAAN SPEAKS:
[And say [O Muhammad]: ‘The truth [has now come] you’re your Sustainer: let, then, him or her who wills, believe in it, and let him or her who wills, reject it.] (Al-Kahf 18:29)
[There shall be no coercion in matters of faith.] (Al-Baqarah 2:256)
[And so, [O Prophet,] exhort them; your task is only to exhort. You can not compel them [to believe].] (Al-Ghashiyah 88:21-22)
[Thus, [O Prophet,] if they argue with you, say, “I have surrendered my whole being unto God, and [so have] all who follow me’ – and ask those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime, as well as the unlettered people, ‘Have you [too] surrendered yourselves unto Him?’ And if they surrender themselves unto Him, they are on the right path; but if they turn away – behold, your duty is no more than to deliver the message: for God sees all that is in [the hearts of] His creatures.] (Aal `Imran 3:20)
Vist the link: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&pagename=Zone-English-Living_Shariah%2FLSELayout&cid=1178724000686
September 6th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Hello NC:
You seem to be a Muslim.I have studied the 3 religions so you lack a certain knowledge.In the New Testament and in fact in all the churches it is said the the LAW OF MOSES,the one you have cited,is no longer to be used.It is not part of Christianity.It is studied for history but that is all.
September 6th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Hello NC again.Answer us this,do you agree 100% with no “ifs,buts,or maybes” that:”Any Muslim has the 100% freedom of religion to leave Islam ANYWHERE,even in all the Muslim countries,and not be persecuted or killed,and to convert other Muslims to his religion.”
That would show you are a liberal and for human rights.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
I think it’s an insult to self-taught scholars to call Robert Spencer a self-taught scholar. Scholarship and teaching involve seeking out new ideas, challenging old ones, and increasing one’s knowledge about the world. Robert Spencer is an bookish pack-rat who hoards Qur’anic ayat and ahdath to satisfy his compulsive hate for Islam.
PS — I wonder was his fellow “TRUTHTELLERS” like Geertje Wilders and the racist Pamela Geller feel about Spencer being an Arab. Do they wash their hands after each hate-on-mozzlems photo op?
September 9th, 2009 at 5:59 am
Hello Maturin,
First of all I think you didn’t visit the link: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&pagename=Zone-English-Living_Shariah%2FLSELayout&cid=1178724000686
You will get you answer there.
Yes, I am a practicing Muslim, and I have 100% freedom of religion from God (Allah). Allah has created us on a free will. Allah is the creator of the all things including we humans. He has given us a Manual (QURAAN) to Guide us. It is the same like a user manual. For example, if you buy a new mobile phone or any other rechargeable batter device; it will have an Operating Manual. If your read the instructions for the chargeable battery; it will ask you to charge it continuously for 12 hrs. uninterrupted for the first time. If you don’t follow the manual, you will not get the optimum battery life. The same thing is with the Quran or Allah’s Guide. If you don’t follow his way you will be the looser.
One should Also understand the purpose for man’s creation. It is only to worship the Creator. The essence of Allah’s message through all of the prophets also was: O mankind, worship Allah, you have no deity other than Him. (Quran, 7:59,65,73,85; Also 11:50,61,84; and 23:23,32). Allah further states that He made this life in order to test man so that every person may be recompensed after death for what he has earned:
[He] who created death and life to test you [as to] which of you is best in deed – and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving. (Quran, 67:2)
But in order to worship Him, we have to know Him well otherwise we may form a distorted concept of Him and then go astray. In the Quran Allah tells mankind what He is and what He is not. Allah and his Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) are mentioned in various world religious scriptures of the world. The following videos prove my statement that Allah and Muhammad(pbuh) are mentioned in Bible, Vedas, Hindu scriptures, etc. :
Topic is MUHAMMAD IN VARIOUS RELIGIOUS scriptures:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyfxQ-hDvu8
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv1qKZASYAw&feature=related
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzhbMmWwLr4&feature=related
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHNLpFu6W0A&feature=related
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uCutltY7hE&feature=related
Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iYadVt6f6Y&feature=related
Similarities between Islam and Christianity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvLHdFI2mOw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJjGMxLR7d0&feature=related
Similarities between Hinduism and Islam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdBC6J9C_fU
As I said earlier, I or for that matter any other true Muslim is fortunate enough to know his purpose in life, and him objective or goal is to go to paradise after his/her death. We all believe in Allah (True God), and his prophet Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, Peace be upon them all. No Muslim is a true Muslim if he doesn’t believe in Jesus Christ (don’t forget to visit the links given above. We believing Muslim have so much clear concept about God that no religion on earth can convince or even give a proof to us that Islam is not a true religion, or that Quran is not God’s word. I am sure Rifqa Bary has no knowledge of Islam (It is obvious as she said that they have to kill me; it’s written in the Quran) Ask her to show which verse? And she won’t be able to. There is no single verse in the Qur’an that prescribes an earthly punishment for apostasy. Verses about apostasy in the Qur’an speak only about God’s punishment of the apostate in the Hereafter. And therefore her father doesn’t need to punish Rifqa. She has already chosen her path that leads to hell fire.
So, I as I said earlier, I have 100% freedom from Allah to choose whichever path I want. I or any Muslim can also change to any religion, but tell me why I or any other true and practicing Muslim should do that? I or for that matter any other Muslims have not found the source other than the Quran to be the right or true word of God; except the few odds like Rifqa Bary. Let Rifqa Bary to show me the proof that the Bible is the word of God and that Christianity is the true religion, I will accept the Christianity. Why I am saying with so much confidence, because I know she or for that matter nobody can give me or any Muslim such a proof! Don’t forget to watch the videos in the links!!!
September 9th, 2009 at 7:38 am
Hello Maturin, with regards to conversion to other religion, and then getting killed. If someone proves to me that Islam is false and other religion is the only true religion which will lead me to paradise, then why should I be afraid of getting killed? If at all my relatives, community, or any Muslim Country orders to kill me, I will be more than glad to honor their wish. I will covert without 100% fear, with 100% free will!
Why Rifqa is afraid of her life? Because she knows that Islam is the only true religion. Though she has converted to Christianity, her mind is not able to reject something that is true. She has only been lured and brainwashed to accept Christianity.
September 10th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Ali Azizi,
I got the exact same impression lol.
September 14th, 2009 at 5:21 am
If this real scholar is a scholar, why didnt he debate robert spencer???
September 24th, 2009 at 8:34 am
The report is copyrighted; permission is given to quote from the report with proper attribution. You can find the file at: http://www.hddweb.com/95376/Robert_Spencer_Article_PDF_Archived.pdf
Hatewatch Hall of Shame
Exposing, exploring, educating, and eliminating hatred and extremism in all its forms.
http://hatewatchhallofshame.blogspot.com/2007/06/spencers-spin.html
Thursday, June 21, 2007
Spencer’s Spin
September 24th, 2009 at 8:36 am
continued from above..
Spencer’s Spin
Just like Goebbels worked for evil, so does Spencer. An investigation lasting almost 12 months, spanning four continents, conducting extensive interviews with Spencer (by email), reviewing his writings, analyzing his arguments in condemnation of Islam, deconstructing his logical fallacies, historically classic propaganda techniques, twisting and perverting Holy Texts, denial of reality and facts, and massively duplicitous claims, all lead to a damning conclusion. While at first Spencer could be seen as either misinformed or perhaps completely ignorant on the subject of Islam, this self-proclaimed “scholar of Islam” is neither misinformed, ignorant nor a scholar – he is following his own agenda in promoting hate speech and deception.
Some critics claim that Spencer does not want the war on terror to end, because then he would have to return to the “unemployed nobody” status he held before the 9/11 attacks, and that the wheelbarrels of money would stop rolling in.
All of this, and more, is explored in the full report, available in PDF format. You will need the free PDF reader from Adobe to read this file. The file will allow you to download, save and/or print. The file is locked from changes or copy/paste operations. The report is copyrighted; permission is given to quote from the report with proper attribution. You can find the file at: http://www.hddweb.com/95376/Robert_Spencer_Article_PDF_Archived.pdf
This 63 page report explores Spencer’s motives, his lies, his hypocrisy, his background, his critics, his response to Muslim leaders who condemn terrorism, and is supported by links and references to verification of the multitude of facts presented.
October 4th, 2009 at 1:06 am
NC, just from the fact that you need to qualify your answer to Maturin about conversion proves that Maturin is correct about Islam being intolerant toward apostates.
Why don’t you say without any additions that a Muslim can convert to another religion at all times and anywhere without having to watch his back all the time for fear of his former coreligionists?
That an ex-Muslims thinks or doesn’t that their new religion is true it is entirely their business, whatever the reason for conversion is, it is none of your business to question another person’s changed religious beliefs or threaten them in any way because of that or even making the appearance of a threat as you just did. Throughout history Muslims killed millions who abandoned, wanted to abandon or were suspected of wanting to abandon Islam. In the last 65 years, Bangladesh civil war 3 millions declared non-Muslims by Imams and killed, Bahai persecutions and executions in Iran for being ex-Muslims, Pakistan and Afghanistan violence, Iraqi Sunnis blowing up Shias and vice versa, Islamic terrorism in Egypt and Algeria, the oppression of the Shia in F…..g Arabia, the Shia uprising in north Yemen against the Sunni majority, severe restrictions and lynching of Copts in Egypt, recent Gaza religious internecine clashes left dozens dead, Darfur, Southern Sudan, and on and on……
Stop fooling around with words. Come out and declare this in the open without the usual Islamic spin where the first part of a sentence sounds liberal and humanistic and the second part completely contradicts and reverses the first part.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:30 am
lol i commented on a rifqa rally video and it got into some pathetic internet debate, and the opponet keeps saying so many Muslims murder in the name of Islam. I dont think he understands that anyone can do anything in the name of Islam, but that doesn’t mean Muslims, or Islam itself, will support them.
December 23rd, 2009 at 6:55 am
This would all be funny if it were not for the fact that people on both sides of this issue believe in fairy tales! You have fanatical Christians that will pull a babe from here mother’s arms because they are so desperate to evangelize. You have crazy Muslims that are even more fanatical and lets not ignore the fact that honor killings in Muslim families have happened here in the United States recently. Remember the guy who ran over his daughter. I think you are all idiots! Christians you cannot define the world with the book of Revelations. Muslims just quit being so scary! Religion is mainly about your culture and nothing more. This poor girl is going to loose her community ties that she knows from birth and never quite feel comfortable in her new community. It may feel great as a young woman but as she ages she will miss her ties to her Islamic community. This pastor at the Global Revolution Church is crazy to even be involved in this case. He should have sent her home to her parents when she showed up and told her to come back when she was 18 if she still wanted to convert.