From Left to Right: Andrew Bostom, Geert Wilders, Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller
Fascism’s new face in Europe, parliamentarian in the Netherlands Geert Wilders, proposes taxing Muslim women who wear hijab (head covering) 1000 Euros. He is a close friend of Robert Spencer who has proclaimed that “everyone should support Geert Wilders.” Wilders has also called for the banning of the Quran which he equates to Hitler’s Mein Kampf , has stated that Muslims are colonizing the Netherlands and has advocated the denial of religious freedom to Muslims.
Geert Wilders has done it again. The leader of the far-right Freedom Party managed to make the Dutch headlines during the annual general political debate.
Wilders’s newest proposal is to tax the Muslim headscarf. Any Muslim woman who wants to wear a headscarf – which he described as a ‘head-rag’ – would have to apply for a licence, and pay one thousand euros for the privilege. Wilders says the money raised would go toward women’s emancipation programmes.
Alexander Pechtold from the liberal D66 Party gives his reaction:
The rest of the Dutch parliament reacted to the proposal with disbelief. One after another, they asked Mr Wilders if this was a serious proposal. For instance, would he include other types of head covering in the tax? And how about orthodox Christian women who wear a headscarf quite similar to the Muslim version?
In reaction, Mr Wilders said he would actually prefer to ban the headscarf altogether, but that appeared to be legally impossible. He would not tax the Christian form of the headscarf, but he did not say how policy would make that distinction.
Mr Wilders has acquired a reputation for making shocking statements during general debates. Two years ago, he called for the banning the Muslim holy book, the Quran. Last year, he warned that Muslims were colonising the Netherlands. Last spring, he and his entire fraction walked out at the beginning of a debate.
The government still has to defend its new budget as part of the general debates. But in an unusual move, Mr Wilders has already announced that he plans to submit another motion of no-confidence in the entire cabinet. That will be the Freedom Party’s eighth motion of no-confidence.
September 21st, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Wow, these are nasty, evil, mean-spirited, hate-speech-spouting, miscreants, all of them. Is their message going mainstream or are they mainly offering comfort and encouragement to one another, as the photo suggests? These four are currently the darlings of countless Orthodox and Conservative synagogues, where their messages of hate are actually RENTED and given publicity by people who are equally nasty, evil, and mean-spirited. Does Wilders actually think applying a tax like this is going to fly in the Netherlands? As concerned as some segments of society are in the Netherlands, this seems merely to be pure spite and will not be embraced by more than a handful of Wilders’ quasi-Nazi supporters.
September 21st, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Thanks for keeping us updated. It’s unbelievable! Let’s be glad that the rest of the parliament feels the same.
September 21st, 2009 at 3:27 pm
OstEuropa I agree it is unbelievable. I don’t think the Dutch will long have a tolerance for such speech. It is also inconceivable to me that something like this could ever become law.
David, I agree with your sentiments. This is very Nazi like though I know this is something different. Europe, I like to believe has seen so many atrocities in the name of different ideologies that I don’t see a return to a time where a Wilders viewpoint is the dominant one. The European Union highlights a new age, or is supposed to, one which moves from the nationalisms of the nation states and towards a global outlook where regional interests are preserved in blocs such as the EU.
The Jews were the bogeyman during the days of nation states, when questions of what does it mean to be a German, Italian were asked. Today, what is being asked is what does it mean to be a European and Muslims find themselves in the same spot as the Jews in relation to nation states, it is something for Europe to look in the mirror and comes to grips with. Can Muslims be Europeans?
September 21st, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Wow! That’s all I have to say.
September 21st, 2009 at 4:53 pm
I would think this blog is heavily censored but i’ll give it a try anyway…
The hijab is a discriminatory symbol not just towards woman but to all non-Muslims. It’s of the same nature as swastika’s or white KKK sheets or celtic crosses yellow stars of david or other such racist symbols.
Hijab bans in the public space are taking effect all over the EU and the Netherlands lags far behind in measures against this discriminatory garb.
September 21st, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Durendal,
What a ridiculous comment. We moderate off topic or racist content. Also, it is no surprise that you agree with Wilders as no matter how off-the-wall, insane or false a statement or opinion is of an Islamophobe his/her Islamophobic supporters will go to any length to defend it — even lie.
September 21st, 2009 at 8:17 pm
“I would think this blog is heavily censored”
Maybe you’re confusing Loonwatch with Atlas Shrugs.
September 21st, 2009 at 11:00 pm
So is the media whore wilders going to ban ultra orthodox womens wigs or the turbans of sihks? Anyone who supports this needs to take a long look at why they think they have the right to do so.
September 22nd, 2009 at 3:22 am
Durendal, are you comparing the hijab to “white KKK sheets?” You are a loon.
September 22nd, 2009 at 5:22 am
If the hijab is a symbol of hate and discrimination, then what feelings may various Western flags connote? The British and the United States’ flags, for example. The past and present day actions of these two countries when it comes to hate and discrimination should, perhaps, warrant a ban? Slavery, colonialism, genocides, apartheid, wars–they have done it all, and their flags are symbols of their past and present acts and policies. Add to that European colonialism and the countries that were its most vehement actors and supporters.
Indeed, Durendal’s comment about an ordinary veil is equally ridiculous (and, no, I have nothing against the aforementioned countries or their citizens
).
Perhaps sneakers should be banned because one might associate them with slave labor and exploitation?
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:09 am
so Durendal, by your definition head scarf and garb worn by nuns are also discriminatory? Ban them too? get a sense!!!
September 22nd, 2009 at 3:54 pm
@Durendal- how exactly is it discriminatory to women and non-Muslims?
You really need to stop being scared of a scarf on a woman’s head and get some therapy. What me and my sisters wear is none of your business.
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:34 pm
“Wilders says the money raised would go toward women’s emancipation programmes.”
What I love about islamophobic loons is their schizophrenic pretentious ability to actually believe that they are benevolent humanitarians even as they engage in the worst kind of unadulterated bigotry.
September 22nd, 2009 at 8:31 pm
My screen cracked from all the ugliness in that photo.
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:17 pm
“Durendal” is an idiotic British Nazi troll whose rantings can be found on a number of Islamic sites. Islam is here to stay, cry me a river and see if I care.
No integration or assimilation with Nazi scum.
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:14 am
Why is Geert dying his haair bleach bloonde.. oovercompensating for soomething my Dootch friejnd? Taax the Baastard.
September 23rd, 2009 at 5:34 am
why in the world is this happening, this makes no freakin sence. imagine banning shurch bells and the bible, no muslim wants that, even with power. then why are the ppl with power actin lyk this, why are ppl actin sooooo acared of muslims, we are ppl just like any one else, then why are we treated sooooo differently.,,….. telllllll meeee
September 23rd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Musilms are not really people. We make T-shirts in the State of Texas and even operate 3 locations in this State that sell anti- Musilm gear. Are T- shirts we make state this. “Islam is not a religion its a disease.”
September 23rd, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Apparently Hijabs are a bigger threat to Western Civilisation than Legalised Prostitution, Human Trafficking and Drug Abuse. At least to Geert Wilders.
Why does he bleach his hair? He is trying to hide his partial Indonesian ancestry, as was revealed in a recent Dutch news story.
September 24th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
The virgin Mary (May Allah shower his blessings on her) is always depicted with a very Islamic Hejab. So is Mother Teresa. The hejab that is not forced unto a women but is worn by choice, is a powerful symbol of sisterhood. The hejab brings equality to women when models and actresses infuse imbalance into how a women is viewed, measured, and objectify.
September 25th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
American women will never forced to wear the Racist Hijab. American women will shoot Wifebeating muslim males dead if they try to make them wear the Hijab. Nuns where their covering because they want to and not cause man tells them to. When is the Muslim male who honor kiled 2 teen aged girls in texas because they were too westernized according to the muslim dad who married a American women. when will their be justice for Theo Van Goah who was murdered for question islam. when will their be justice for Hersi Ali and all the people who leave islam and have to leave in hiding do to threats of violence toward them. In the end islam will bow to Jesus as the devil muhammed did
September 26th, 2009 at 10:53 am
So do you have any real evidence to back up your claim? For the record, when did Muhammed ever bow to jesus. 2.) Honor killings are part of arab tribal customs, not islam. Three; It’s sad Hirsi Ali must remain in hiding, but personally, I think she’s a total hypocritical idiot. She criticised people who lied to get asylum when she herself did the same damn thing; four, no one’s forcing the women to wear a hijab; if a muslim women wants to wear one you can’t force her not to? As to the American muslim dad; just because one case happened doesn’t mean all muslim men do this; I knew this Pakistani Muslim girl who wore american outfits, and who was friends with “western girls” as you would call them, and who was so assimilated that I didn’t know she was a muslim until I was flat out told; Also, is a woman walking around half naked any more demeaning then being totally covered?
September 26th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
If i’m allowed i’ll respond to some of the comments made.
First of all comparing Islamic coverings to flags or nuns habit, it seems to me that flags represent nations and nations can change there opinion or views. It has no defined meaning other then denoting a certain nation state and it’s people.
A nuns habit has no meaning other then identifying a nun as belonging to a certain convent certain nun habits resemble some Islamic coverings but others do not.
Clearly neither of these would fall under the terms of being a racist and discriminatory symbol.
Also i’m not British and certainly not a National Socialist. Hitler was by the way a great admirer of Islam and even had a special Islamic SS division called the Handschar.
September 26th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Funny enough as great the admiration of Adolf Hitler was for Islam, Winston Churchill refered to Mein Kampf as the new Qu’ran.
Also responding to Nissa, Islam considers woman inferior to men giving them unequal rights and status.The same is true of non-Muslims in general.
One could say that the Islamic coverings are both a yellow star of David as the symbol of female inferiority as well as a swastika as a symbol of Muslim superiority towards non-Muslims. This is also how it’s described in the Qu’ran. (Let them be know as Muslims so they don’t get bothered)
I don’t see why you should be allowed to pollute other peoples minds and publicaly offend them by wearing these symbols of oppression and discrimination.
By the way mr.Wilders does not go for a ban which is different from the French,Belgian,German and other countries measures.
September 26th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Also responding to the concept of paintings of the virgin Mary with what seems like a Islamic hijab covering.
From the earliest Christian icons to the later renaissance paintings the object was often to depict both Jesus Christ as well as the saints and the Virgin Mary as royalty.
Hence one finds many variations of this theme in paintings and depictions.
Most of the European renaissance paintings have her wearing expensive silk cloth which sometimes even has Arabic script golden embroidery meaning the shahada. This was because Arabs held a monopoly on silk and other expensive cloth trade that European royal families desired.
1st century Jews had very different looks and mode of dress but the desire of the artists was not to be historically accurate but to show the majesty and regal status of Jesus and the Virgin Mary or any of the saints.
September 26th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Also the same reason todays Muslims are confused about the “hijab” of the Virgin Mary is the same reason why Jesus is often viewed as a white European royal.
This very populair image of Jesus which is often found in pictures,paintings, cookies and toast and on doors , is historically inaccurate.
Jesus (if he existed) was a religious 1st century Jew, a semite not a white, often pale, European royal.
One famous feature of Jesus as having long hair for example is completely false.
Jesus most likely had short maybe even shaved hair as all religious Jews of the period.
September 28th, 2009 at 3:49 am
@Durendal
blah. The same old tired nonsense. I wear my hijab proudly. It is an act of worship, a symbol of my identity, and a sign I reject a lot of the cultural and traditional baggage my parents had. It makes me feel powerful…even when it makes me a walking target…so you clearly know nothing about Muslim women and should stop acting like you do.
As for the Hitler thing….read a history book. He used Christianity to mobilise support, his own little Hitler church was based on Chrisitan motifs, many Christian clergy supported him….
one SS division with Muslims….and? They had their own national interests at the time…Muslims fought against him too but of course the poor colonial soldiers forced into fighting for their colonisers against a potential coloniser always get forgotten.
If you only ever look at things from your little ‘i hate Muslims’ prism of course you will have a very skewed impression of the world.
September 28th, 2009 at 4:38 am
Andrew Bostom: His Moustache offends me ; so therefore he should pay tax,
Geert Wilders: should get a hair cut – and his hair colour offends me so therefore he should pay tax
Robert Spencer: Is in need of a dire shave: it totally offends me that he has so much facial hair : so therefore should pay tax
Pamela Geller: she has too many split ends in her hair which offend me dearly – therefore should pay tax
September 28th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Hate to burst your bubble, but hitler was a proud Christian, as evidenced by this websitehttp://www.creationtheory.org/Essays/Hitler.xhtml. As for churchill, he wasn’t exactly tolerant (he advocated dropping bioweapons on arabs. Plus, one Muslim SS unit doesn’t = all muslims being involved in the holocaust.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
@Nissa Aaaahh but who were the first colonizers of the countries you mentioned?
I will remind you in case you don’t know.
That islam originates in Arabia what is it doing outside of Arabia?
My…why…could Muslims have colonized the countries in which Islam is now a prominent religion?
September 29th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
@Nissa who taught Europeans everything they know about war and colonizing?
My was it..why it can’t be ..was it the Muslims? Attacking them first in Spain and then in Southern France where there advance was halted?
Was it the Ottomans that introduced Europeans to the fine art of gunpowder when they assaulted Constantinople and the Balkans and there constant invasions of the Habsburg lands?
Using by the way Colonized Janissary soldiers? You know how they got hold of Janissary soldiers? They would go into occupied Balkans and kidnap Christian children.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
@Nissa The Muslims that invaded Spain and Southerm France in the 8th century taught the Europeans the fine art of riding warhorses with stirrups.
Thanks to this Europeans started learning to fight mounted warfare.
Charles Martel defeated the Muslims with phalanx and spears but after this were born the mounted knights in Europe something the Muslims came to regret a few centuries later.
September 30th, 2009 at 3:01 am
@Durendal
Yes…Muslims are to blame for everything bad EVER. Christianity was also a Middle Eastern religion….how did it spread so far?
No Muslim armies went to Indonesia- and it is the most populous Muslim country in the world.
Europeans had been attacked and colonised by Romans (and each other). Seriously, please get some therapy.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:50 am
Durendal,
It is a completely ridiculous and altogether false, as well as Islamophobic claim to make that Adolph was a great admirer of Islam! The reason you bring that up is to attempt to tie Islam to Nazism. That is disgusting and lame. The fact is Nazism/fascism arose in the West and had within it a pagan core, and though Hitler proclaimed himself Christian the reality was he was a pagan at heart. Islam is opposed to all forms of paganism.
To other profundities you proclaim: “Why is Islam out of Arabia?” Fact is people from all these countries embraced Islam. The fight against both the Byzantines and the Persians was a defensive war.
The Europeans didn’t need any help from Muslims to learn about war or colonizing. They were happily chopping each others’ heads off for centuries before the Muslims came. Take the Visigoths for example, they were known to be the most oppressive rulers of Iberia, so much so that the Muslims who landed into Iberia were viewed as liberators and in fact it was the Jewish community that helped Muslims land in Iberia. It is also the reason why Muslims faced so little resistance from the local populations up until Tours.
Please do a little research next time.
September 30th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
That is why I am happy to live in the Netherlands: Freedom of speech. I am calling myself liberal and even vote for D66 (of the Pechtold guy in the interview), but I am glad that people can say such things here, even if it is controversal.
And of course many people in Holland think this is ridiculous and will tell it to Mr. Wilders (like Mr. Pechtold did), but that is how the game is played. Geert Wilders is a clown and he knows it, but he keeps the Netherlands awake and makes politics interesting. Only to see how other politicians are playing upset is worth the show.
And to shine a light on the whole situation:
It was during a discussion about where the dutch goverment has to get its money from after buying the Fortis/ABN AMRO bank for several billions EUR. All political parties had there share and since the PVV (Mr. Wilders is fraction leader of the PVV) is almost a one issue party with a focus towards integrationpolitics, they proposed this taxation.
His reasoning: “We’ve spend lots of money on integration of muslims, while they cost us a lot of money anyway (the average muslim in the Netherlands rely strongly on social services); since everybody has to bleed, lets let the not integrated muslims pay their part!” (according Mr. Wilders the headscarf is a symbol of non-integration of the muslim woman).
September 30th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
@Nissa
If hitler was a christian please explain this quote:
“It is through the peasantry that we will really be able to destroy Christianity, because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood.”
If hitler was a Christian why did the nazis invade Christian lands and kill Christians? Also it amuses me how you defend people who had a role in the holocaust, they weren’t a few poor boys forced into nazi uniforms, no one forced them to kill Jews. The Hanzar Division of Nazi Muslim Soldiers in Bosnia created by Amin Al Husseini was the largest division of the nazi army and that’s only part of the nazi muslim alliance. How would you react if a uber nationalistic serb came on here and refused to condemn the people who carried out the srebrenica genocide and even went as far as to claim that the mass murderers were forced into it?
September 30th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
@Ryan
Read what I posted about hitler, also it wasn’t just one SS unit like I said the muslim Hanzar division was the largest divison in the nazi army, the nazis had a hand in the creation of the muslim brotherhood and numerous pro-nazi groups sprang up in the middle east (ie young egypt) Heinrich Himmler, Head of SS, and close colleague of Amin Al-Husseini, financed and established Islamic Institute (‘Islamische Zentralinstitut’) in Dresden under Amin Al Husseini. Plus one hundred thousand (100,000) Bosnian Muslims joined the Nazi ranks (I’m waiting for Nissa to try to make them out to be victims and tell me how the poor dears were forced into it), so the fact is that muslims and Arabs were very much involved in the nazi war machine.
“I have nothing against Islam because it educates the men in this division for me and promises them heaven if they fight and are killed in action. A very practical and attractive religion for soldiers.”
-Heinrich Himmler
September 30th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Barry Lyndon,
It is a lie, and a humongous factual error to say that the Hanzar division was the largest in the Nazi army. It plays well in your Islamophobic argument though. It never fails to surprise me how people can rewrite history and project their own prejudices of the present onto the past.
The Hanzar division was a part of the Waffen-SS, which grew to have 38 divisions, and was different from the regular army (Heer). It was Hitler’s command that the Waffen SS “never be integrated into the regular Army.” In the beginning it was open only to the “pure Aryan races” which Bosniaks of course did not fit into because they were Slavs. It wasn’t until the exigencies of Realpolitik made themselves ever present that the Nazis opened it up for other races.
After the fall of Sarajevo on 16 April, 1941 to Nazi Germany, the extremist Croat-nationalist and Fascist Ante Pavelić (who had been in exile in Mussolini’s Italy) was appointed Poglavnik or leader of a new Ustaše state – Nezavisna Država Hrvatska (NDH, the Independent State of Croatia). The Yugoslav provinces of Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina and parts of Serbia were reconstituted as a pro-Nazi satellite entity under joint Nazi and Italian occupation. The Ustaše almost immediately launched a vicious campaign of violence directed at unarmed Serb civilians.
On July 6, 1941 Pavelić’s Culture and Education Minister, Mile Budak, announced that the Ustaše considered the Bosnian Muslims an integral part of the NDH : “The Croatian State is Christian. It is also a Muslim State where our people are of the Islamic religion.” Pavelić ordered a property in Zagreb be converted into a mosque that he modestly named after himself in his efforts to secure the loyalty of the Bosnian Muslims : the Poglavniks Mosque.
Bosnian Muslim clerics issued three declarations (fatāwa), all publicly denouncing Croat-Nazi collaborationist measures, laws and violence against Jews and Serbs: that of Sarajevo in October 1941, of Mostar in 1941, and of Banja Luka on 12 November, 1941.
Despite Pavelić’s assurances of equality, it wasn’t long before many Bosniaks became dissatisfied with Croatian rule. An Islamic leader reported that not one Muslim occupied an influential post in the (local) administration. Fierce fighting broke out between Ustase and Partisans. A number of Ustase units believed that the Bosniaks were communist sympathizers and burned their villages and murdered civilians. Serb victims of the violence were inclined to view the Bosniaks as collaborators.
The Fall of 1942 saw SS Reichsfuhrer Heinrich Himmler and SS-General Gottlob Berger approach Hitler with the proposal to raise a Bosnian Muslim SS division. Both the Wehrmacht and the SS were concerned about the rapidly deteriorating security situation in the NDH that tied down German military personnel that could be better employed elsewhere. By the New Year of 1943 over 100,000 Bosnian Muslims had been killed (9% of all Bosniaks at the time) and 250,000 had been expelled from their homes – mostly by Serb Chetniks. “The Muslims” remarked one German General, “bear the special status of being persecuted by all others”.
October 1st, 2009 at 3:04 am
@Barry Lyndon
So you are saying Christians have never attacked Christians? As to Amir-al-Husseini…he was appointed by the British in opposition to the Turks, he allied with Germany because he wanted to stop Jewish immigration to Palestine…many other Palestinian leaders at the time allied with the British…he wasn’t the only Arab leader alive then.
Yes Muslims and Arabs were involved….it was a World War, genius. They were on both sides, just like Christians.
Some Muslims also supported Apartheid and some were locked up for contesting it- you do realise we are not a homogenous block and religion is only part of why people, nations and governments make certain choices (or is that too rational for you?)
Hitler was smart enough to use one religion against another and play on the ethnic divisions already present as Ustadh pointed out.
The Japanese collaborated with the Nazis….so did the Indians (Chandra Bose to this day is a national hero)…
I never said anyone joining the Nazis were victims…I said they had their own national interests and to suggest Islam influenced Nazism is plain wrong and really shows how desperate you are to demonise all Muslims.
Plus…Germans are not blamed for their ancestors actions anymore…why should Arabs or Bosnians be?
October 1st, 2009 at 4:57 am
Barry is clearly an Islamophobe, repeating the rhetoric that “the Muslims supported the Nazis.”
I will quote from an article written by Zaid Shakir:
The shameless allegation that Islam is the new fascism would be bad enough were it presented in isolation. However, it is coupled with allegations that Muslims supported Hitler and the Nazis during World War II. Such allegations are a foul misrepresentation of the historical record and serve to dishonor the memory of all of the courageous Muslims who selflessly fought and died in defense of the European democracies, even though many of their own lands were still suffering under the yoke of European colonization.
At the heart of these baseless and base allegations is the fact that the Palestinian Mufti of Jerusalem, Al-Hajj Amin al-Husayni, had close ties to the German leader Adolf Hitler, and even spent part of the war in Berlin. While this much is true, al-Husayni’s sentiments were not those of the overwhelming majority of the Palestinians, to say nothing of the rest of the world’s Muslims. To use al-Husayni’s ties to Hitler as a means to defame and discredit Islam and Muslims as fascists is misleading and has to be challenged.
In fact, there were several Palestinian brigades and tens of thousands of Palestinians in the British Army who actively fought the spread of fascism. The existence of these Palestinian brigades was more indicative of the mood of the Arab and Muslim masses than al-Husayni’s misguided actions. Therefore, when al-Husayni issued his call for a Muslim jihad against the allied forces his plea was largely ignored. The fascist jihad never materialized. The reason for that is simple. It had no significant support from the masses of Muslims.
The Palestinian Muslims were not alone in terms of their participation in the anti-fascist effort. Hundreds of thousands of North and West African Muslims assisted in the liberation of France from the German occupation and the French Vichy government. As many as half of the free French forces that landed in southern France in 1944 were Africans, the overwhelming majority of them Muslims. Among their ranks was a group referred to as Senegal’s Secret Soldiers, a group of Senegalese Muslims who played a significant role in the liberation of France from Nazi occupation.
One of this country’s staunchest Muslim allies in the struggle against the fascist menace was the Moroccan king, Muhammad V. He not only worked strenuously to insure that Moroccans supported neither the French Vichy government nor the Nazi effort in North Africa, but he also courageously supported Moroccan Jews during the war years, saving them from extermination at the hands of the Vichy regime. Muhammad V’s efforts were so heroic in this latter regard that the Moroccan Jewish community has initiated an effort to have him become the first Arab to receive Yad Vashem’s “Righteous Among the Nations” award.
Farther east, hundreds of thousands of Muslims enrolled in the British Indian Army. On January 1, 1945, there were 447,580 Punjabi Muslims in the British Indian Army. This number constituted 32 percent of the army’s troop strength, a percentage tremendously greater than the percentage of Muslims in the overall population. These Muslim soldiers were deployed in all of the major theaters of battle in the fight against the Axis powers and performed admirably. They were firmly supported by the political leader of the Muslims in India, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, a staunch critic of Hitler.
The claim of widespread Muslim support for Hitler is further belied by the fact that Turkey, at that time the strongest independent Muslim nation…The Turks broke all diplomatic and economic relations with the Germans in August of 1944, and declared war against Germany, February 23, 1945. These moves were instrumental in the defeat of fascism. Besides the political importance of Turkey’s declaration of war against the Axis forces, its entrance into the war on the side of the Alliance deprived Germany of one of its major suppliers of chromite, an essential element in steel production.
Perhaps the greatest testimony to the Muslims who actively opposed fascism is the work of the Paris Mosque in protecting Jewish children from the Nazis, who were sending French Jews-men, women, and children-to perish in the death camps of Eastern Europe. The mosque itself was built by the French government in appreciation of the 500,000 Muslims who had fought for France during World War I, with 100,000 losing their lives in the trenches. It is estimated that the mosque helped to save over 1,700 Jewish children, by providing them with shelter, transit, and Muslim names. A pamphlet that circulated among Algerian Muslims in Paris at the onset of the Nazis’ campaign against the Jews in France stated:
“Yesterday at dawn, the Jews of Paris were arrested. The old, the women, and the children. In exile like ourselves, workers like ourselves. They are our brothers. Their children are like our own children. The one who encounters one of his children must give that child shelter and protection for as long as misfortune-or sorrow-lasts. Oh, man of my country, your heart is generous.”
————————-
As for the Muslims League of India (the precursor of Pakistan), they backed the Allies, providing hundreds of thousands of soldiers. Winston Churchill said about them:
“We must not on any account break with the Muslims who represent a hundred million people and are the main army elements [in India] on which we rely for the immediate fighting.”
(The Commonwealth in South Asia, by Sadashiv Prabhakar Aiyar p.210)
So please Barry, save us from your Islamophobic rhetoric.
Sincerely,
Danios.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:39 pm
“Barry is clearly an Islamophobe repeating the rhetoric that “the Muslims supported the Nazis.”
I didn’t say that all muslims were nazi fanboys; I simply pointed to Ryan and Nisa that there were more pro-nazi muslims than one ss unit and it kind of irritated me how nisa tried to make them out to be victims. I didn’t include the entire scope of Muslim involvement in World War two since I was trying to keep my post short since the last time I tried to post a large reply it was cancelled.
“So please Barry, save us from your Islamophobic rhetoric.”
Historical facts are ‘bigotry’ all of sudden? Also cut the name calling, I’m not anti-muslim bigot seeing as I’m not exactly a Rob Spencer fan. I haven’t used any anti-muslim rhetoric I haven’t used cliches like ‘stealth jihad’ or crap like that.
October 1st, 2009 at 11:22 pm
“So you are saying Christians have never attacked Christians?”
Of course not, I’m critical of religion in general, however the topic is about Islam and I don’t see a reason to include an ‘oh yeah Christians have done bad things too’ footnote next to every post about Islam.
“Yes Muslims and Arabs were involved….it was a World War, genius. They were on both sides, just like Christians.”
Of course they were, however you tried to minimalize it and even tried to make them out to be victims, my post wasn’t meant to be about the entire scope of muslim involvement in WWII. I was trying to show how silly your comment was and I was trying to keep my post short since quite a few of my longer posts on here weren’t approved.
“you do realise we are not a homogenous block and religion”
Of course, an American muslim is obviously going to be different from a muslim in Saudi Arabia. However I didn’t claim that all muslims were pro-nazi.
“Hitler was smart enough to use one religion against another and play on the ethnic divisions already present as Ustadh pointed out.”
I wouldn’t credit hitler with too much brain power, the guy invaded Russia for heaven’s sake.
“I never said anyone joining the Nazis were victims.”
Really? Because it sure sounds like it to me:
“but of course the poor colonial soldiers forced into fighting for their colonisers against a potential coloniser always get forgotten.”
In other words you think the poor dears were forced into it.
“I said they had their own national interests and to suggest Islam influenced Nazism is plain wrong”
I didn’t say it influenced nazism, I simply pointed out that Hitler and Himmler (in their own words) admired the religion. Oh wait or am I an ‘islamophobic intolerant bigot’ for pointing that out?
“and really shows how desperate you are to demonise all Muslims.”
Yes I’m an anti-muslim bigot, that must be why I cricized Robert Spencer and didn’t call all muslims nazis. I suppose if I point out French pro-nazi activity I’m trying demonize French people? Accusations of bigotry or intolerance are silly and they lower the quality of a debate, all the ‘I tawt I taw a wacist’ tactic does is anger the person you’re debating.
“Plus…Germans are not blamed for their ancestors actions anymore…why should Arabs or Bosnians be?”
Where on earth did I say that they should be blamed for their ancestors’ actions? Oh that’s right I didn’t.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:56 pm
It’s sad how mean everyone is being on here. The question you need to ask yourself is simple: Do people have the right to wear what they want or not?…and for any freedom-loving individual the answer should be obvious…People should have the right to wear what they want and if people don’t like it, don’t look. I’m a Christian who head-covers. I wear a full head scarf and living in America am almost always taken to be “Muslim” just because I follow this ancient Christian tradition. Most people don’t realize that Jews, Christians, and Muslims ALL have a tradition of head-covering for women. Head-covering is a Christian tradition as much as the “hijab” is for Islam, feminism and modernism have simply killed it here in the west. Women in modern society are the ones who are oppressed. Women are not seen as people in modern society….they are sexual objects! Girls are raised to believe that they are only worth something if a man finds them sexually attractive and hence women are more unhappy than ever before. Modesty for women is freedom and true happiness. Oh, and I love my Muslim and Jewish Sisters who cover! People are only responsible for themselves not for others so please stop grouping people and putting responsibility on their heads for things to which happened in the past. I’m no more responsible for the crusades as a Christian than a Muslim is for a terrorist bombing a building. It’s simple people: “Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter in your eye’, while the wooden beam is in your eye?” Matthew 7:1-4 If someone wants me to remove my headscarf in the future…sorry it’s not going to happen! God Bless, Kel
October 3rd, 2009 at 8:09 pm
Awww, and they’re all together in the post! How darling! What would poor little Geert think of the fact that I frequently wear a headscarf even though I’m an American Roman Catholic woman? HAHA! What about freedom and choices for women? Take away our right to vote as well, Geert? If so, start here and with Pammycakes Geller. Then tax her botox. Then tax Spencer simply for being so incredibly f******g ugly (and incredibly annoying). Aww, now I sound so petty. My apologies. We all know that these petty taxes are good for everyone. More revenue, more persecution……
….. and oooops, there I go jumping into another thread ranting about hijab. But ohhhh, that picture….too hard to resist. Loonwatch has sucked me in AGAIN!
P.S. I linked your site today in an article (about hijab), so if my readers come back after my long break from blogging, eh who knows. I’m sure you’ve surpassed me by a long-shot by now!
October 3rd, 2009 at 9:08 pm
“Women in modern society are the ones who are oppressed.”
If you truly believe that you are deluded, nobody forces a western woman to wear a miniskirt, on the other hand we have lovely stuff like this taking place in the middle east:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1874471.stm
“Women are not seen as people in modern society.”
Actually you haven’t backwards, women aren’t seen as people in the middle east which is why the United Nations Development Fund for Women reports that nearly 90 percent of Afghan women suffer from domestic abuse.
“they are sexual objects!”
So just because somebody doesn’t follow your values they’re automatically a ‘brazen hussy’? That would be amusing if it wasn’t just plain sad, of course you left out women who authors, politicians, artists and so on.
“Girls are raised to believe that they are only worth something if a man finds them sexually attractive and hence women are more unhappy than ever before.”
So every single parent in the west raises their daughter to be a ‘whore’? What a bigoted statement, that’s as bigoted as claiming that every Islamic parent raise their children to be terrorists.
“Modesty for women is freedom and true happiness.”
In your opinion, which isn’t worth much seeing as you think a few miniskirts is ‘oppression’ but widespread domestic abuse isn’t.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Barry, I don’t judge anyone for what they choose to wear. I said in my post that I judge no one. I’m simply stating my opinion on how I felt as a girl raised in the west and based on my observations and relationships with other women. I think it’s great that women can choose to wear what they want, even if I don’t agree with it, but the truth is that if you dress modest in the Western-world you are looked down on and ridiculed while if you wear showy clothing (not that everyone does) nobody has a problem with it. Doesn’t that seem wrong to you? Girls are dying for the attention of men and using their bodies to get it. I know because I used to be one of them. I used to think I was doing it for me, because I was liberated! What a joke…it was all for the attention of men! All every girl I’ve ever known wanted was to walk down the street and turn heads to get some validation of their worth through their bodies. Women are fed the idea that they have to conform to a certain standard of beauty and if they don’t they aren’t worth anything. Oh, and domestic violence is not a Middle Eastern problem, it’s a universal problem. If the west is so enlightened to the plights of women how come domestic violence still happens as much as ever? Just cause I don’t agree with what girls wear doesn’t mean I think they are whores….you are the one jumping to that conclusion…I love everyone no matter what they choose to do with their life or bodies…that’s between them and God. Maybe what you should be asking yourself is why you so unbelievably angry at those who choose to dress modestly? Afraid you’ll be missing out on a few extra shows of leg (etc.) for the cost of a smile or wink?
October 4th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
It is very strange how Barry seeks to divert any topic dealing with Muslims into an Islam bashing or blaming Muslims exercise. Anything to divert from the topic at hand such as the craziness of Geert Wilders.
Anti-Liberty laws have been passed in France which deny Muslim women who choose to wear the headscarf their right.
October 5th, 2009 at 3:46 am
@Barry
“but of course the poor colonial soldiers forced into fighting for their colonisers against a potential coloniser always get forgotten.”
You might learn how to read…that was in reference to the colonial soldiers fighting for the allies who so often get forgotten.
Point out that Hitler admired Islam, he also admired the Japanese religion and was influences by Paganism (which is what he was referencing in that peasantry quote.) No one tried to deny Muslims were involved…we all objected to Durendal’s use of it to demonise all Muslims…
You seem to jump all over me for something you misread but don’t seem to correct Durendal for claiming Muslims taught and brought war to Europe..
As for the Saudi Fire link….that story was more than was reported..most girls died in a stampede inside the building and when a staircase collapsed. Many people did help them outside, the guard denies he locked the gate and the Mutaween were severly criticised for trying to block girls leaving and people ignored them and contiued to help them leave.
I would not defend the Mutaween in a million years, they are a disgrace and are not popular in Saudi either.
Domestic abuse is a global problem….and banning or fining women for wearing what they want is ridiculous wherever it happens.
October 5th, 2009 at 10:10 am
FYI Nissa – Hitler admired Buddhism as well and considered them as one of the fountains of Aryan knowledge, he sent a expidition to Buddhist monistries.
October 8th, 2009 at 5:32 am
Nissa Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 3:01 am
All imperial powers claim they invade other peoples countries to liberate them and that the subjugated were overjoyed.
This was true then and it’s true now with the exception that Muslims are still busy excusing it and feel no desire to condemn it or be self critical of there past. Quite to the contrary it’s generally viewed as a glorious past one which they strive to repeat.
Western Europe during the first Muslim contacts was not as developed as the Islamic world and much of the later resurgence of Western Europe came as a result of Islamic-Western European contact.
It’s no accident that the great voyages of discovery of Columbus and others orginated in the lands recently liberated from Islamic rule.
Arabs were colonizing long before Western Europeans.To stick with your example of Indonesia never being settled by Muslims , Arab merchants created various settlements and outposts as early as the 11th century.From which Islamic kingdoms originated that subsequently fought other kingdoms for territory and influence in the Indonesian archipelago.
@Ustadh Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 10:50 am
I look upon Islam as something seperate from National Socialism but sharing many common traits.
It’s founder according to Islamic sources was a totalitarian ruler who engaged in violent warfare,implementated various discriminatory measures , engaged in genocide and ethnic cleansing and who claimed the superiority of the Muslims over all peoples of the world and that all should submit themselves to his idealogy giving all others a second class status or worse.This is obvious for anyone who has ever opened a Qu’ran and read it.
It’s not much different from the National Socialist idealogy that white “Aryans” should rule the world while all other races are to be subjugated and made into second class or worse.
October 8th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
@Durendal…Seriously? Now you are blaming Muslims for the genocide in the New World?! Well if everything bad Europe has ever done is because of contact with Islam…is everything good also because of contact with Islam?
you fail to see how ridiculous you sound when you whine Muslims don’t condemn their past when you try to excuse that of Europe by blaming Muslims for it!!
Please continue to think we are all bloodthirsty supremacist fanatics….whatever gets you through your hate filled paranoid day.
October 9th, 2009 at 10:44 am
@Nissa Why do you think Westen Europeans set out on there voyages of discovery? The establishment of the crusader states in the 11th and 12th centuries brought us into contact with things Western Europeans hadn’t seen in centuries.It opened the eyes to a world that was lost. Most of these resources were monopolized by the various Islamic empires forcing Western Europeans to find alternative routes to regain access to them.
Western Europeans regained access to the Greek learnings which form the basis of modern science. What the Muslims brought us through invasion , colonization and war, Western Europeans improved on.
It is not excusing Europe’s past it’s showing you that before Europeans did any of this Muslims were busy doing it.
And while Europeans have learned to look critically at there past Muslims look upon there past as something glorious that was lost and that needs to be restored,pegged on I should say, by oil funded Western apologetic scholars that glorify the history,the Islamic conquests and there colonial rule.
As for supremacy don’t all Muslims believe there book Qu’ran? It repeats it over and over and over again.
3:110 “Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.”
October 9th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
@Durendal
As for that passage…and? Every faith has an element of supremacy and exclusivity. What would be the point if believers and non-believers were all the same in their faith? I am a heathen in Christianity…I am not one of the Chosen in Judaism…
The Quran also teaches me to treat others how I wish to be treated…regardless of their faith because I will answer to Allah for how I behaved towards his creations.
Yes…because before Muslims had contact with Europe is was a paradise of peace and marshmallows. You have clearly not learned to look critically at the past….and FYI Europe has not learned from it very recent colonial past- that much is obvious in how it deals with the world it screwed up.
It is worthless to debate with you.
October 12th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Also to bring it into the present, people do not like being colonized by Islam and Muslims.
As is currently the case in many European countries.
Which explains the resistance that is growing.
It is the same resistance as the one that grew in the areas which were previously colonized by Europeans.
It’s a struggle for national liberation and sovereignity.
Which silly enough gets called “nationalist-supremacy” on this blog.
I wonder how they would then view other such incidents in history where a native population overthrows a colonial power and sends them packing.
October 14th, 2009 at 5:54 am
Yes, lets deal with the present. I, like most Muslims of immigrant ancestry are in Europe because of colonialism. We have the same claim as anyone else to live work and prosper in Europe. There are also indigenous converts to Islam…
where exactly will you be packing us all off to? I am British. I don’t belong anywhere else.
How you think a group that makes up 5% of all of Europe, is socio-economically disadvantaged, with little or no political power and living in a current climate of scrutiny and demonisation (with no military upper hand) are colonising Europe is beyond me.
You have no grip on history or reality.
October 14th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Mr. Wilders has millions of followers, not just a few. Before and durung WW11 there were millions of Netherlanders who joined the Nazi Party voluntarily, called The Social Democrats. After the war that segment of the society never was forced to face their participation as brutal fasicsts, as Germany was forced to. Many of Mr. Wilders adherents, and, enthusiastic they are, are probably children, grandchildren and great grandchildren of those Dutch Nazis. After all fasicsm starts at home, the political movement to succeed is always one that is culturally approved, not an aberration.
November 2nd, 2009 at 9:22 pm
First in response to several comments about how negative Islam is.
people need to stop confusing Islam as a religion with Middle Eastern culture. like any other culture there are many faults with Middle Eastern cultures and traditions. along the lines these have become confused as customs brought on by Islam, which is NOT the case.
A simple proof of this is to merely go back to reading the Quran in context. not singling out a verse but reading all related verses.
You will see that Islam as a religion can work in any culture and does not violate any cultural values, be them Western or Eastern
Second
About forcing women to take of their Hijab.
Myself and all my friends who wear the Hijab were never forced by husbands, i wore the Hijab long before i got married, nor by family.
As hard as it is for alot of people to understand the Hijab is a choice. Women DO choose to wear it out of devotion and love for God not to oppress themselves. it also does not oppress in anyway.
I work, learn, participate in all the activities i wish while wearing the Hijab.
If people who are Islamophobic are for some reason scared of women wearing the Hijab and eventually force them to take it off some how.
that won’t affect their belief! I mean even with out the Hijab these women are still Muslims. Being a Muslim is a way of life, it’s in your heart and mind. The Hijab is just an outer garment that symbolizes women’s devotion.
i personally know Muslims who don’t wear the Hijab and i see them more devote and religious that some who do.
Third
The idea that all Muslims are immigrant. That is really untrue.
There are a lot of European and American Muslims who are not from Middle Eastern descent.
For people attacking Islam and reading this blog i would simply advise you to read the Quran or a translated version of a credible source. And read it with understanding of the context, don’t take one verse and leave the rest but read all verses that are related to each other.
this is not to make you give up your own religion or belief but to understand Islam. Islam respects all religions and respects that people have different beliefs.it’s up to Muslims to truly abide by this and for others to show the same respect.
@Durendal
In response for your quote of the Quran, it’s true that exists and i urge you and others to read the whole verse which it is shown.
there are other verses such as:
” Say (O Muslims), “We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma’il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya’qub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and ‘Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam).” 2:136
“ Surely, those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah, in His Messenger Muhammad SAW and all that was revealed to him from Allah), those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, – whosoever believed in Allah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. “
5:69
3:45“ (Remember) when the angels said: “O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word ["Be!" - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah ‘Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allah.”
November 12th, 2009 at 12:52 am
To Durendal:
You seem to be associating Nazism to Islam, did you know that Nazi soldiers had a Christian cross on their belt-buckles to symbolize their righteous war? Thankfully we Muslims are intelligent enough to know the difference between Nazism and Christianity. Yet our faith is put on trial daily for the mistakes of individuals, this is one of the greatest injustices of our time.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Geert is a scumbag, are we really still discussing this guy’s insane hatred and lack of democratic values?
November 12th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Best quote:
“What I love about islamophobic loons is their schizophrenic pretentious ability to actually believe that they are benevolent humanitarians even as they engage in the worst kind of unadulterated bigotry.” -Mexican_lunch
Stop speaking on our behalf and call us oppressed, Geert! We never lodged a complaint of being oppressed or appointed you to be our Muslim women’s spokesperson– how did you come to the conclusion that we are oppressed?
Let me speak for myself:
Modesty is not an oppression. A head garb on any woman Christian, Muslim or Jewish is the same thing; a piece of fabric. How fabric on a Muslim becomes oppressive and fabric on a nun’s head is not, I fail to see the distinction. If you want to talk about oppression, nuns:
1. wear a head garb and cover themselves;
2. wear monotonous outfits i.e. black and white only (that I’m aware of);
3. lock themselves away in a Convent!
4. never get married….
Muslim women are out in the public, can enjoy conjugal life, can change different outfits– and they cover their hair with fabric. Oppressed, much? I read law in university and now I’m a lawyer; hmm, a professional hijab woman, oppressed really?
If anyone can tell me exactly how is it I’m oppressed when I have exercised my own freewill in all the decisions of my life, feel free.
Agreeing with Kel:
Women are sexually appealing by nature, I personally feel there is no need to sex it up lest you become more of the sex part than the person part thus objectifying yourself as a sex object.
Though some women feel the need or prefer to sex it up a little; this always reminds me of Sex & the City– from 20 something all the way to 40 something; hey, I look good that makes me happy! And yet, the way they weave in and out of sexual relationships, the emotional ups and downs caused by this man or the other, being so SUBJECT to whatever man they allow into their lives and somebody in the room is going to throw the word “skank” if they feel like it! This, is freedom? And I know the women of Sex & the City are representative of the general trend of women in any urban setting.
Not saying they are wrong, but these are choices people can consciously make and if they choose beautiful fabulous clothes with what comes after it is their freedom to do so. I choose…. beautiful fabulous modest clothes
Dior, Hermes and any other fashion house is a personal freedom of choice too
November 12th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Best quote:
“Mexican_lunch Says:
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:34 pm
“Wilders says the money raised would go toward women’s emancipation programmes.”
What I love about islamophobic loons is their schizophrenic pretentious ability to actually believe that they are benevolent humanitarians even as they engage in the worst kind of unadulterated bigotry.”
It is pretentious of Wilder to presume responsibility of Hijab-women spokesperson and allege on our behalf that we are oppressed when we can definitively say for ourselves: “WE ARE NOT”.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Wilders is vile.
January 22nd, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Durendal, you remind me of a little boy trying to figure out how to blame the broken window on his sister.
For the record read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_(1st_Croatian)
Hitler did NOT like Muslims, but used certain Muslims in the area who happened to be just simply bad people. The Scholars back then issued fatwa’s AGAINST Hitler and his methodology.
“Bosnian Muslim clerics issued three declarations (fatāwa), all publicly denouncing Croat-Nazi collaborationist measures, laws and violence against Jews and Serbs: that of Sarajevo in October 1941, of Mostar in 1941, and of Banja Luka on 12 November 1941 [2].”
Please take the Aluminum Foil hat off, climb out of Mommy’s basement and go out into the scary Muslim filled world and educate yourself… or better yet get a job and stop wasting time on the internet splattering your conspiracy theories and hatred.
When you grow up, please stop by and we can have tea or coffee, your choice… but be sure you have your Mommy’s permission first.
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:47 pm
OMG, I just took mt kids to school, and as it is a bit cold, so I just grabbed it, and it on hijab style. All the sudden when I get to the drop mthr od hll rthe (WWWWWWAYYYYY to slow drop off; and all the other Moms stared and glared, all these Escalade/Hummer/YukonXL/ ‘drivers’. I couldn’t believe it AGAIN! Headscarves are just very handyI think they arI in this weather, I wasn’t trying to make a statement or anything, I was just wearing a head scarf. I got the worst stares, people looking at me glaring so hard that eyes were just slits.
I have to get off of these muscle relaxants, this stuff just makes me a make mee unable to leave anynomous. Thzf c cr a wrexk….o crap tje dose is kicking in,S-r
February 4th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Return of the inquisition in Europe.
February 4th, 2010 at 11:18 am
@Durendal,
Amercian, British bankers financed Hitler including President G. Bush II grandfather.
February 7th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Let’s tax Bikinis as well! They are also a political statement! G Strings will pay higher taxes! Seriously thou: women should have the right to wear whatever they want for whatever reasons they have. If they want to wear Burkas and Hijabs no one has the right to prohibit them or punish them for doing so. This fallacy called white Euro-American democracy has brought to much evil to the world already with its wars, support of tyrants in Central and South America that killed and tortured millions of people with the support and training of our beloved CIA and NSA agents, and everything our big corps did in the world in “the name of democracy and freedom”. Time to stop that thing! I am American, a war vet, and White but everything that comes out of a mouth of a white politician is usually wrong and will bring this world close to destruction.
February 27th, 2010 at 7:33 am
Wilders for PRESIDENT!
February 27th, 2010 at 7:34 am
Geert Wilders cant walk in Freedom cause of muslim threats…now who are here the true fascists?
February 28th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Hope they win , Greetings from Sweden
March 8th, 2010 at 4:52 am
What Geert Wilders is proposing comes down to persecution on the basis of sex and religion. He does not merely want to tax head covering he only wants to tax Muslim women who cover their head. He is fine with people wearing crosses, other non-Muslim symbols and non-Muslim religious head coverings.
As far as I am concerned, civil servants and medical personnel should not wear religious, political and/or other ideological symbols during work hours. They are supposed to serve the general interest as impartially as possible. However, Mr Wilders is does not want the State to be neutral when it comes to religion. He wants the Dutch state to actively discriminate against Muslims, particularly ethnic Moroccans. He has made that very clear.
March 8th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
In a strange sick way I hope he wins. Then we can get to see his peverted govt discrimination fantasies into play.
March 19th, 2010 at 9:27 pm
Hooray for Geert Wilders. No freedom loving people can forever live in peace with the muslims. Let the wars begin
April 10th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Laughing at these silly Wilder’s supporters here.
April 13th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
First of all, great site! I want to make a Euroloons section! It seems that a real industry has come up around loonies, with lots of money involved.
Couldnt stand to read all the comments, but this one from Durandal is a classic:
“@Nissa who taught Europeans everything they know about war and colonizing?”
where the answer was the muslims. Does the name Roman Empire ring a bell anywhere?
May 13th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
There is a movie that came out in 2008, called Dunya & Desie. It shows “a friendship between a promiscuous Dutch girl and a Moroccan second generation immigrant developing towards adulthood… two close friends finding out about what defines the meaning of their lives. One fleeing it, the other seeking.
…If there is a central theme to this story, it is one of hope about mutual respect between two cultures that have been clashing rampantly in the Netherlands. I am happy to admit that this hopeful message is what almost brought me to tears in the end.
I hope to once see a Netherlands like this with my own eyes.”
May 25th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
Geert Wilders visited many times the Knesset where he is taught how to trigger clasy with muslims
June 8th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
Tomorrow we are having elections in the Netherlands. We shall see how far Wilders is going with his racist party.
Problem with him is mainy that he has big mouth and attracts people from the wrong side of normality. The man is a shame to my country.
June 16th, 2010 at 11:28 am
these vile moves by Wilders and consortium (French Burqah banned) is inevitably a sign of panic on their side to confront the actual events (expansion of Islam in Europe).,they are making publicities for more adepts!!!
June 19th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
The world is full of bigots and hate-mongers. It always has been, it always will be. Islam is going through it’s own holocaust right now, just like the Jews in Germany and the Japanese in America. Truth always wins, however, no matter how much islamophobes want it to go away.
P.S.
I don’t read the comments because they are usually long, childish debates with fabricated “evidence”. Therefore, I do not care if no one reads mine :3
June 19th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
Not Given: I agree with your general sentiment, but I would discourage using the term “holocaust” in this context. This is not to say that the Holocaust is unique as some pro-Israeli propagandists like to say, but at the same time, I simply don’t think it fits here. However, like I said, I agree with you that Muslim-Americans are receiving a wave of xenophobia that many other groups experienced before them.
July 4th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Wilders has denounced ISLAM and the prophet (SAS) of ISLAM, as being a pedophile and a warmonger. In the meantime he visited repeatedly the azkeNAZI Knesset in occupied Palestine where he showed to the Khazars convert to Judaism his full support and allegance. Of course the azkeNAZI bankers now are financing his compain as they always have done to the usefull goy idiots.
One might ask why Wilders didnt use the same logic with muslims by establishing a dialogue where he could have seriously asked or explained them if their propher was indeed a Pedophile and warmonger.
The Muslim scholars would have been pleased to discuss with him by giving him a rebuttal regarding the 9 years old age of Aichaa (RR)appearing in one singel Hadith reported by Isham Ibn Waraq. As being a Hadith that as been rejected because of the elderly reporter (Isham) having made mistakes on Aicha age, indeed all the historians and chronicle writters on this time knew that Aichaa was promised to a Mekkan family years before Islam revelation and also she was part of the Baddr Battle. Since the Prophet (SAS) married her during the Medina period on the 5th year of Hejjira, Aichaa is then at least 27, at least chronologicaly. Regarding the Jewish tribe massacre where Wilders uses as a proof for the prophet warmonger, he would have known that the prophet had nothing to do with this event since those Jewish tribes were vassal tribes of the Arabic tribes of Awuss whose leader punished the betrayal of those jewish tribes who gave alleagance to him and exterminated secretely friendly tribes.
Wilders is our contemporary Jakob Adolf Hitler, just needed to trigger a conflict and then they will get rid of him.
July 6th, 2010 at 8:09 am
To Kel;
Hello!! God bless you and yours, dear Christian headcovering sister!!!
It is wonderful to find a headcovering Christian amongst all those who scorn and ridicule women’s decision to cover.
Although I do not wear a full closed-at-the-front covering, I wear a hanging covering on my head and hair that falls down my neck, as per 1 Corinthians 11:1-17, Titus 2:12, 1 Peter 3:2-3, and so many other verses.
And any others who are reading this post, please feel free to look up those verses in your nearest Bible, to understand where headcovering Christian sisters are coming from!
God bless you all each and every day,
From Rachel.
July 7th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
on the subject of veils, it seems to westerners that muslims can not be unaware of our western social norms.
i dont think anyone has a problem with a woman/girl wanting to cover her hair for reasons of modesty. what is unacceptable is hiding the face. right through our history, only thieves murderers rapists etc ie those up to no good would go about hiding their face.
you could almost say that the human face in a sense is sacred to us. we never needed any law about it, because everyone adhered to the taboo. it is only since muslims arrived that we’ve had to think about it.
now, for the last 30 years where i live, the sizeable muslim minority never hid their faces. recently they’ve started to do so.
it is not a requirement of their faith, but more and more of them are seeming to be asserting a muslim identity by aping the saudi custom of going round dressed all in black like medieval lepers and hiding the face .
this is not being modest [-in our culture]…its being provocative and exhibitionist, and seeks to draw attention and make a statement.
now muslims must be aware of the funereal connotations -in our culture, of the colour Black. of course goth types happily or should i say gloomily! like wearing all black, but nothing is bad about that in and of itself…because the black garments are counterbalanced by their openly visible faces.
what muslims dont seem to realise, or want to ignore anyway, is that when you combine an all-black outfit, with hiding/covering the face…this creates a very malevolent malignant impression to the people of the majority indiginous culture.
also, as we are all begining to be aware of the links between repressive wahabi saudi style puritanical and intolerant islam, and these funereal costumes, the fact that women choose to wear them is a sign that the darker more intolerant brand of islam is proliferating in our neighbourhoods.
given that muslims cannot be unaware that most westerners will be viewing things as ive described above, it is beyond me why they cannot, if they are determined to shroud themselves, why they cannot at least do it in brightly coloured fabrics that dont have [to western eyes] such a malignant appearance.
but the issue is really nothing to do with garments, except inasmuch as the fact of a face being hidden [which is the actual issue] requires that a garment be there.
i dont care what you wear on you feet, what you wear round your bottom or your breasts, how whacky or fabulous a hat you wear, its absolutely your choice and none of my business, but when it comes to the face, i need to see more than just your eyes to feel you are part of my world and my culture.
i think essentially that for me, the face is symbolic of open-ness. i see western culture as being at the forefront of truth seeking, which is why WE are able to look at ourselves warts-and-all and why we are so vibrant and dynamic and why we continue to evolve and grow. and anything that seeks to hide itself from the light of day or obscure itself is regressive and against the pursuit of truth. i think on some level this is why we are almost instinctively repulsed by such medieval costumes.
we understand on a gut level that is a physical representation of backwardness and the triumph of dogma over reason.
apart from all the above, we also need to see the whole of someones face to catch the nuances ticks and twitches that reveal the emotion and thoughts going on in the mid of the person we are communicating with. so much of the richness of communication is lost without that full range of expression being visible.
also, everyones face being visible reinforces the fact that collectively everybody in our culture is equal. i feel that the modesty excuse muslims use is just a way for muslim men to legitimise their need to controll women.
also, the fact of women Needing to veil themselves says more about the lack of arab/muslim mens sexual self-control than it does about a womens virtue.
July 22nd, 2010 at 2:32 pm
Look at the many picture of Mary Mother of JC. heck go to yahoo images and type in Mary mother of jesus and click search look whats on top of her head ohh……….
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0geumJ7qkhM_hQBBxhXNyoA?ei=UTF-8&p=mary%20mother%20of%20jesus&fr2=tab-web&fr=yfp-t-701
July 22nd, 2010 at 2:50 pm
Actually you haven’t backwards, women aren’t seen as people in the middle east which is why the United Nations Development Fund for Women reports that nearly 90 percent of Afghan women suffer from domestic abuse.
( REALLY SO ITS ALL ONLY IN THE ME YEAH WHY WE HAVE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE COMMERCIALS HERE IN THE STATES AND THERE ARE WOMAN SHELTERS AROUND EVERY CORNER OF EVERY CITY TO PROTECT WOMAN FROM JERK MEN)
(I REALLY LOVE STAT LIKE THESE… HERE IN THE US Estimates range from 960,000 incidents of violence against a current or former spouse, boyfriend, or girlfriend to 3 million women who are physically abused by their husband or boyfriend per year .Nearly 2.2 million people called a domestic violence crisis or hot line in 2004 to escape crisis situations, seek advice, or assist someone they thought might be victims.Nearly three out of four (74%) of Americans personally know someone who is or has been a victim of domestic violence. 30% of Americans say they know a woman who has been physically abused by her husband or boyfriend in the past year.
)
“they are sexual objects!”
(MAXUM, PLAYBOY HECK WATCH 3 MIN OF TV OR GET ONLINE FOR 5 MIN)
July 25th, 2010 at 6:45 am
Wilders blames all that is wrong in our society on Islam. He contradicts himself all the time. He is against double nationality, but his own wife has 2 nationalities. He want de Quran forbidden, but how is he going to force this law on people (read:only on moslims)? I should think that the police has better thinks to do than going to moslim houses and mosques to check if a Qoran is present. He wants to honour the Christian/Jewisch tradition, takes an oath on our Constitution, but has no respect for that same Contitution. In Dutch Constitution is written that all people are alike, same rights and same obligations and that there is absolute freedom of religion. Wilders wants to take away these rights, but only from the moslims and this in contradiction with our Constitution
July 26th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
I propose a yearly tax exclusively for Mr. Wilder simply for being a donkeys ass!
July 29th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
I would dismiss this person but…..
(Friday, June 11, 2010
Geert Wilders’ Party Makes Strong Showing In Dutch Elections
Yesterday’s New York Times and the London’s Financial Times report that Parliamentary elections in the Netherlands on Wednesday resulted in a surprisingly strong showing for the anti-immigration Freedom Party of Geert Wilders. The party, coming in third, won 16% of the vote and captured 24 seats in the 150-seat House of Representatives)
So i guess many Dutch agree with his ideas and hate is spreading
August 1st, 2010 at 8:31 am
Sounds like jizyah to me…
August 6th, 2010 at 8:38 am
dear sir; wilders has nothing against headscarfs or hyabs. they have been
used for centuries.Also in the west.But covering themselves as though they are not to be recogniced is a abhorens to all ordinary people. tom
August 12th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
Taxing Muslim women to wear a jihaab is like taxing people to wear clothes. Simple as that.
The hijaab is a part of the women who wears it. Head-rag, towel, they’re all things people call hijaab because they don’t understand it’s purpose and don’t want to learn either. It’s a part of our faith, a symbol that the woman who wears it loves her religion.
Why tax something that is a part of someone?
August 17th, 2010 at 11:22 am
First I want to excuse myself for being Dutch. We should have locked Wilders up in a mental institution
And yea he has a problem with a moslim woman wearing a head scarf, but no problems with other man/woman being pressed to wear something they do not like. So yes he is a racist!
Fortunately for you you can enjoy him on 9/11 where he will speech in the USA. We would prefer if you would keep him there
August 17th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
@Jan
lol no thanks. You can keep him. =)
And don’t think we judge all Dutch people because of Wilder’s racism and bigotry. We don’t generalize like the Islamophobes.
August 22nd, 2010 at 2:24 am
What I want to know from all these ignorant people….many of whom are christian is, do they feel Mary the mother of Jesus was oppressed? Open your blind eyes, do you see a similarity to the statue of Mary that you pray to but fail to recognize someone wearing the same covering?
This is something that has always amazed me. Open your eyes, eyes that are blind, ears that are deaf, mouths that speak lies.
One more thing, of the 2 times in the bible that I have seen mentioning the way Moses and Jesus prayed they are said to have prostrated on the ground. The same way we MUSLIMS still pray, carrying on the true tradition. AMEEN
August 22nd, 2010 at 11:02 pm
I meant most of the peope protesting, I know that Geller and Spencer are jews.
August 23rd, 2010 at 5:17 pm
@Dan Ryon, If like you say, Islam is not a religion, it’s a disease…then
August 23rd, 2010 at 5:20 pm
@ Dan Ryon…You make T shirts that say “Islam is not a religion, it’s a disease…” Well, as a Muslim that statement is absolute verbal diarrhoea and even if you feeble minded people believe it, then I say in response “Let the disease be contagious and spread like wild fire not sparing anyone along the way”….
August 27th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
@Sabia Ali
Islam is not a disease, it is only a bad joke…
August 30th, 2010 at 2:17 am
Islam is not a disease, it is only a bad joke…
August 30th, 2010 at 3:15 am
How about we take this further. I mean, since Geert has decided that women are “OPPRESSED” by choosing to wear hijab, maybe we should go a step further and force women to go topless. You know, just to show how ‘liberated’ they are. Or just go fully naked in public. But only women. Because, you know, obviously men aren’t oppressed. LOL
I wonder if this idiots even know that men have to cover our awrah too. Or is it only ‘oppression’ when women choose to cover themselves (and even then, not all Muslimahs do that, as ANYONE who has been around Muslims should be able to tell you). Then again, judging from the rather disgusting amount of praise that Robert Spencer and company heap on Geert, I wonder if they might be *ahem* well acquainted with the sight of naked men. j/k
@Les: I don’t hate the Dutch. I like the Dutch. Very nice people, interesting history. If anything, I just wish I spoke Nederlands better! But I have no respect for Geert Wilders and his bunch (most of whom are funded by right-wing nuts from MY home country, I’m sorry to say).
@ETERNAL: I’ve been called far worse. Besides, we Muslims have a good sense of humor. We’re laughing AT you, not with you
September 2nd, 2010 at 2:32 am
Its quite amazing how something as simple as a lady’s headscarf can raise such a big hooha. I say, let people wear whatever makes them comfortable. As long as they are not violating the rights of others to wear as little as possible. We live in a global village, this world is all we have. Let’s all be kind to our ladies and respect their preferences. I notice very few people on this forum ever ask the ladies what their preferences are. I’m quite sure women in this age of literacy and education can speak for themselves.
September 2nd, 2010 at 5:04 am
@Zakariya Ali Sher
I am glad to discover that you have a good sense of humor, even if it is at my expense. I never noticed it so far perhaps because it’s well hidden, like “your” women.
Keep on laughing but drop out that holy rubbish which is poisoning you.
Let’s forget islam (try it is not so difficult !) and concentrate on serious matters !
September 3rd, 2010 at 9:08 am
Durendal
The British were the ones, during the first world war, to radicalize the Muslims of Arabia and fight the Turks. British colonialism has helped shape current world affairs to what is relevant today.
Thanks to your forefathers, The Muslim Brotherhood was born, a group which fought colonialism.
The British were/are only in the middle east for the oil and gas and it’s strategic location.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._E._Lawrence
September 14th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Recently, France voted to do away with a burqa-style Muslim Veil….It passed the senate with an overwhelming vote of 246 (passed – 1 (AGAINST)..It now must pass the Constitutional Watchdog! If it passes it becomes illegal to wear this burqa-style veil, in public places!
As you can all see, this is perhaps the issue at hand, with the people that object to hidden faces! It is obvious that there is a lot of Merit in this proposed law, also from a security perspective!
To resort to name calling and over-emphasis of the issues at hand, lacks intellect!
When people choose to live in a country other then their native land. It is essential that these people integrate and accept the laws of the country or their next option: Return to where you came from!
September 23rd, 2010 at 3:30 am
Geert must have copied the jizya from the Quran 9:29 and applied it to headscarfs.
September 23rd, 2010 at 3:39 am
So basically the claim is that women who live in Europe MUST adopt European styles of dress and abandon their own culture, identity and heritage? That smacks of racism and cultural arrogance to me. Quite frankly it makes me proud that I wear the shalwar kameez! I’d imagine that Geertie would get his panties in a knot over that
September 23rd, 2010 at 1:20 pm
The thing I do not grasp is the idea that exant domestic abuse laws are insufficient to prosecute those _forced_ to wear hijab/burqa/niqab/etc. Beyond that, I can see where people would not place an exception for face covering on religious grounds (if a bank tells be to ditch my muffler they are within thier rights to fuss over one’s niqab) but the government microamanaging what people willingly wear on thier heads is a waste of time.
September 25th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
I had a dream…
Suddenly, all these backward freaks come back to their senses, drop out their stupid misconceptions and take their Koran for what it is, a simple book inspired by a pedophile warrior and political man of the distant past.
I had a dream…
October 1st, 2010 at 8:47 pm
Islamophobis or Islamophilia. Is one better than the other? When one makes a comment that does not suit Islam, he is called Islamophobic. Am I allowed to have my opinion without being tagged with a derogatory name?
October 2nd, 2010 at 1:34 am
Since islam is an intolerant cult, it needs to be countered by intolerance. If Europe had tolerated naziism, where would Europe be now ? In the same way, Europe cannot afford to tolerate islam. The quran is simply a few nice and fairy-tale sounding verses (similar to those found in and plagiarized from the bible, Jewish and Zoroastrian texts) mixed in with a lot of intolerant, hateful and discriminatory verses.
Read the whole (yes, whole) koran and hadith and the tafsir before starting making ridiculous claims about the tolerance of this cult.
Widers is right IMHO.
October 4th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Delenda Est Mecca
October 4th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
@Jonathan
Yes there are some similarities between nazism and islam but don’t forget that Hitler was a European and that he said he was fighting, believe it or not, for the Aryan race and the greatness of mankind.
Nazis had great scientists and did not lapidate women.
I find the leftist tolerance towards that backward cult utterly absurd. Most of Western countries fought against Hitler’s invasion ( a few thousands of German men and women, highly civilized and very much like us) and don’t react against many million illegal migrants who have almost nothing in common with our history and culture and who could destroy our way of life and our freedom for a very long time !
October 6th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
Just to be clear, any such law would violate the Netherlands’ obligations as a member of the EU, as well other international agreements, and is therefore simply not on the table. There can be no doubt that Wilders already knows this quite clearly and that he is just playing the same old bullshit game as always.
October 16th, 2010 at 2:23 am
Geert wants to tax headscarfs. Mohammed wants to tax non-muslims (jizya).
October 16th, 2010 at 4:39 am
Farlowe, don’t you pay tax where you live?
Jizya is the tax that non Muslims pay, for their share of public amenities. In return the state has an OBLIGATION to protect their rights to life, property, and their wealth. Muslims pay their own tax.
Or are you saying that only Muslims should pay tax for all their citizens and yet be entitled to state benefits?
October 18th, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Farlowe, just to add to what ‘Rise of Islam’ said Muslims pay their Tax as “zakat” and since zakat is also a religious duty, non muslims are eempted from it. but they pay normal tax which is “jizia”. now before you jump in to conclusion, “no” zakat and jiziya arent same, jizya is much lesser than zakat. And also it is compolsory for a muslim to take part in military actions to protect the state and its people but again non muslims are exempted from it. but if any non muslim want to take part in military actions, then he is exempted from paying “jiziya”.
So non Muslims pay less tax than muslims in a Islamic socity and get all the protection for their wealth and property as muslims do and guess what they do not have to risk their life on military actions as muslims. And people like you mourn with out the least knowledge about Islam. and hey if you work in Saudi you do not have to apy tax for your salary, be a muslim or non muslim. how cool is that!
November 18th, 2010 at 11:07 pm
The Islamization of Europe is a historical-cultural phenomenon that threatens the very existence of Europe.Geert Wilders is a heroic visionary
that speaks truth to the myoptic,hypocritical culture that has come to dominate much of Europe.Support Geert Wilders and the PVV and help perserve Europe,it’s culture,history and legacy.
November 26th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
Taxing hijab?! No, I’m not taking it off.
December 10th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
I have no particular grudge against Muslim women in fancy dress;but they should accept the natives laughing at them for doing so.
Similarly the men with the condom hats and sawn off trousers.
Having done so on many occasions(like asking them if there’s a fancy dress party going on somewhere.)I find that Mohammedans in general lack a sense of humour with respect to their supremacist ideology masquerading as a religion.
Geert Wilders as a Dutchman feels his culture is being subsumed by the infiltration of aliens who not only do not in tegrate ;but whine for “religious privileges”;and demand respect for their belief in an imaginary space monster(Allah the wrathful) conceived by a murdering itinerant7th century desert bandit.
My daughter was propositioned by a Muslim lad who had the good manners to meet me;but ran off screaming when I told him what I thought of his death cult(my daughter collapsed in laughter after observing his discomfort;she has been brought up as a disbeliever in all the fanciful mores of they who believe in the impossible.)
Mohammedans have to learn the benefits of free speech;it’s a non negotiable feature of the civilised world.
Now label me an Islamophobe if you will(a very silly word suggesting irrational fear of Islam.);but Geert has a24/7 bodyguard to prevent contact with crazies who want to do more than shake his hand and give him a kiss.
Then there is the ad hominem accusation of racism(funny that when 50%of my pub pals are Jews,Hindhus and Sikhs.)
Would I approve of my daughter marrying one of them?well why not?
When Mohammedans learn to live as the natives and not in their own self imposed apartheid;then things will change;but not until!
And all that yelling of “hellosnackbar doesn’t help.
It gives the impression that they are brain blighted hooligans.
December 10th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
@ Frank:
> The Islamization of Europe is a historical-cultural phenomenon that
> threatens the very existence of Europe.
Big words. What’s funny is how the racists like the EDL are moving on to using code words like ‘European culture’ to stand in for ‘white’. This isn’t about Islam as I’ve said time and time again. It’s prejudice plain and simple. We Muslims merely make a convenient scape goat. These are the same piss-soaked hooligans and thugs who only a decade or so would have been targeting Jews or blacks (and of course they still ARE targeting blacks but they’ve changed the label to ‘Muslim’; as if they can tell what religion an African follows simply by looking at him).
> Geert Wilders is a heroic visionary
Geert Wilders is a pompous asshole. Consider that most of his fans seem to be American racists who are incapable of voting in the Netherlands in the first place…
> that speaks truth to the myoptic,hypocritical culture that has come to
> dominate much of Europe.
You mean countries like Turkey, Albania, Northern Cyprus, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kosovo and Azerbaijan which are Muslim majority? OR do you mean countries like England (less than 3% Muslim and something like 75% Christian), Spain (75% Roman Catholic and only 2% Muslim), Italy (91% Roman Catholic and only about 1% Muslim), and of course the Netherlands (which is about half atheist/areligious, 25% Christian of one kind or another, and only about 1-2% Muslim again)… yeah, those Europeans are SOOO overwhelmed right there!
> Support Geert Wilders and the PVV and help perserve Europe,it’s
> culture,history and legacy.
Yes, because those poor white people need so much help. *rolls eyes* Look, let’s face facts here. Europe is peripheral to the rest of the globe. It always has been. Small population, poor climate, and relatively few resources. Sure, for a couple centuries Europe DID dominate much of the globe but that’s a fluke of history. Mostly it has been China, India, West Africa and the Middle East that was the wealthiest and most important driving force in civilization.
Think about it for a moment. Where did agriculture develop? Not in the cold forests of Europe, but in the warm, fertile lands along the Nile delta, between the Tigris and Euphrates, the Indus River Valley, the Yellow River in China, in the Mexican plateau and Ethiopia. The earliest civilizations? Sumeria, China, Egypt, Assyria, the Hittites, the Persians, Minos… When Europe sank into the ‘dark ages,’ the Islamic caliphate was in a golden age, Byzantium was a shining beacon of culture and learning, Axum dominated the Red Sea trade routes, and the Chola Empire was flourishing in India. Even during the early colonial period, it was Europeans who were trying to gain entry to the wealth of India and China.
The fact is that Europe is falling into the background. This is not to demean European culture, for it is inherently no worse than say the Maori, Yanomamo, Zulu or any other culture. But it is not the center of the world. That honour currently belongs to America, which is emphatically NOT European, and increasingly is being joined by India (the world’s largest democracy), China, Brazil, South Africa, Russia, Mexico and other so-called ‘developing nations’. Considering that this is where MOST of the world’s population dwells it makes sense….
@ hellosnackbar:
> I have no particular grudge against Muslim women in fancy dress;but they
> should accept the natives laughing at them for doing so.
Yes how dare someone not dress exactly like YOU! Better laugh at people for having different cultures and customs. I suppose turn about is fair play here since I find men with bleach blond hair and polo shirts tend to look like complete asses. One wonders if your tolerance extends to Sikhs who go about with beard and turban, yarmulke-clad Jews and blacks who wear dashikis or similar ethnic attire?
> Similarly the men with the condom hats and sawn off trousers.
> Having done so on many occasions(like asking them if there’s a fancy
> dress party going on somewhere.)
Making fun of people to their faces is a great way to get slugged in the face where I come from. I take it you’re another Euro-trash? In Chicago, hell most of the US, people don’t do that sort of crap.
> I find that Mohammedans in general lack a sense of humour with respect
> to their supremacist ideology masquerading as a religion.
Ah yes the old ‘Islam isn’t a religion argument.’ Don’t you guys ever come up with anything new?
> Geert Wilders as a Dutchman feels his culture is being subsumed by the
> infiltration of aliens who not only do not in tegrate ;but whine for
> “religious privileges”;
How dare everyone not act like a Dutchman. Of course I’m not sure what that would entail since the Dutch don’t really have any distinctive dress, architecture or identity these days. It’s pretty much the same as the rest of Europe. Are they to go back to wearing wooden clogs? Hell even in regards to religion the Dutch seem to be mostly atheist and not Christian!
> and demand respect for their belief in an imaginary space monster(Allah
> the wrathful) conceived by a murdering itinerant7th century desert
> bandit.
One could say the same of Christianity or Buddhism or Scientology. You can’t ‘proove’ any religion so what’s the point in trying?
> My daughter was propositioned by a Muslim lad who had the good manners
> to meet me;but ran off screaming when I told him what I thought of his
> death cult(my daughter collapsed in laughter after observing his
> discomfort;she has been brought up as a disbeliever in all the fanciful
> mores of they who believe in the impossible.)
Ah yes now we come to the obligatory story to ‘prove’ your bravado against some imagined Muslim threat. Interesting to note the racist subtext here where the ‘eeeevvviiilll Muslim’ is trying to ‘defile’ the pure white princess.
> Mohammedans have to learn the benefits of free speech;it’s a non
> negotiable feature of the civilised world.
Freedom of speech includes freedom of PRO-ISLAMIC speech as well, a crucial tenet which your lot seems eager to leave out.
> Now label me an Islamophobe if you will
I will.
> (a very silly word suggesting irrational fear of Islam.)
Considering your irrational fear of Islam it fits.
> ;but Geert has a24/7 bodyguard to prevent contact with crazies who want
> to do more than shake his hand and give him a kiss.
Lots of politicians have bodyguards. Lots of politicians have death threats and even assassination attempts. In Geert’s case it seems to be more for show than any real threat.
> Then there is the ad hominem accusation of racism(funny that when 50%of
> my pub pals are Jews,Hindhus and Sikhs.)
Funny because Sikhs have institutionalized a mode of dress that is shared with many Muslims from the Indian subcontinent. Do you resent their wearing turbans and beards too? Do you resent Hindus wearing kurtas and salwar-kameez?
> Would I approve of my daughter marrying one of them?well why not?
Would you approve of your daughter converting?
> When Mohammedans learn to live as the natives and not in their own self
> imposed apartheid;then things will change;but not until!
Imposed apartheid? How exactly? By maintaining elements of our culture? By going to masjid and celebrating our holidays? By marrying other Muslims? By keeping halal? These are the same sorts of things that pretty much ALL religions do. Most practicing Jews marry other practicing Jews. Ditto for Hindus. And Sikhs. If anything western Christians are the odd ones out since you don’t follow dietary restrictions or have specific styles of dress. For followers of Christianity who observe things like Lent for example it becomes much more obvious.
Quite frankly I think most Muslims in the west are integrate just fine. Again just like the Jews, Chinese, blacks and other groups before us. It’s the social elites and populist race-baiters who are causing problems.
> It gives the impression that they are brain blighted hooligans.
WOW! You describe the EDL perfectly!
December 10th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
Hmmm… I wonder since Geert is such a proponent of taxing hijab how he would react to me – a handsome American Muslim man – walking about the Netherlands in full burqa? Considering that his hero Pim Fortuyn was a homosexual it could cause some lulz, no?
December 11th, 2010 at 10:17 am
Well Z you seem like a Muslim lad that is proud to be such.
Does that mean extending the “Dar el Harb “to Chicago?
Your missive is sadly full of logical fallacies and non sequiturs.
Having visited Muslim cesspools like Egypt and Pakiland I remain viscerally unimpressed by so called Islamic culture.
You mention the EDL!
I must I don’t know much about them except that they eschew the fascist
dogma of the bone headed BNP;and furthermore have many members from the ranks of Hindhus and Sikhs as well as Afro-carribeans.
Their leadership and political program appears to be confined to opposition to Mohammedan encroachment.
Mohammedan encroachment supported by Gramscian morons who infest the public sector of our administrative system.(having completed faux science courses in that academic joke known as sociology and the rest
of the inhuman humanities).
Silly matters like a Muslim cook who after several years employed by the police refused to cook bacon.(he tried to sue for wrongful dismissal;but thankfully common sense prevailed).
Another was changing Roald Dahl’s “Three little Puppies”
The halfwit headmaster didn’t know that dogs in the wonderful world of Islam are also haram.
Islamic adherents are authoritarian fascists as are the brain dead fascists who oppose them(plus ca change plus ca les meme choses!)
The EDL have distanced themselves from these idiots.
You seem to have an issue with WHITE? what does that mean?
Oh I know! that hackneyed canard of conflating opposition to the dogmatic filth that is Islam withn racism.
Funny that about Mohammedans how they deliberately obfuscate their death cult with accusations of racism.
Muslims as scape goats does that mean that the petty crime of MURDER
should be treated as a trivial inconvenience or misdemeanour tut tut!
Wilders a pompous idiot?does that mean you consider him pompous for
considering Islam an egregious death cult?
And then your accusation of Islam opponents being myoptic(sic).
In opposition to Islam myopia is something we are definitely not.(always on watch).
And where’s the hypocrisy?Aren’t we alowed to laugh and criticise the
adherents of primitive moon god cultures within the tenets of free speech(cf Muslim vitriol with respect to Jews)
And Europe being peripheral to the world as it is?
Ha Ha Ha that’s pathetic.
Europe was the fountain of the enlightenment that changed the world in conjunction with the American founding fathers.
Would you compare London to Cairo?(still laughing!)
Develop(sic) agriculture yes early man developed agriculture in the Tigris Euphrates region;but that was before Mohammedan barbarians invaded(the most virulent anti Islam people I’ve met are Christian Assyrians)
Then Byzantium a Christian quasi-Roman culture destroyed by Mohammedan
barbarians.(the current day sophisticated Turks being swamped by their more numerous Islamist peasants in the interior).
Having lived in Germany Turkish Muslims are similarly hog tied(pun intended) by their
idiotic backward culture(the Germans sensibly not granting them citizenship on the basis that they’re guest workers).
American culture?well that’s an offshoot of European culture(think about the language you speak even the Americans have not the impertinence to call it American(although the halfwit Webster did change some of the spelling!)
So finally Z why are you in America surely someone who has benefit of a Western education should feel a missionary zeal to return to the land
of his forefathers to spread education and enlightened amongst the failed Mohammedan regimes bringing misery and ignorance to their citizens.
So grasp the nettle and try to ameliorate the misrule of your co religionists!
Somehow I conjecture that such a mission would be one of abject futility.
Stupid is as stupid does and the hellholes and failed states of Islam bear testimony to that fact.
I shall laugh at Islam till the day I die(and if I come across angry Allah I’ll kick him in the nuts for his tyranny(a fantasy no more fanciful than your belief in her existence).
So be sensible Z dump Islam and all other fantasy beliefs and join the human race observing the golden rule of civilisation.
December 11th, 2010 at 10:45 am
hellosnackbar: This is a video response to your post http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRHUXcCI4xY
December 11th, 2010 at 10:51 am
hellosnackbar: I also have a video response to your post http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
December 11th, 2010 at 11:14 am
Lol, why is it that loons must break after every abstract sentence?
December 12th, 2010 at 8:56 am
Nassir H,
I watched the video you posted and saw that it related to that idiot Glen Beck.
I loathe brain dead demagogues like Beck as much as the bearded halfwits who make up the ideological backbone of your so called religion.(plus ca change etc.)
They both serve as silly people who spout bullshit to influence the ignorant.
BTW Syed I don’t have a great knowledge of water fowl except to marvel at their evolution developed call.
Read more science it seems to be absent from the madrassa curriculum.
December 12th, 2010 at 9:22 am
“They both serve as silly people who spout bullshit to influence the ignorant.”
That is the best summary of people like Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller.
December 12th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Hmm, odd posts Mr Hello, very odd. Your knowledge of the EDL is indeed limited, for starters you believe they are against the BNP’s ideology when in fact not only are BNP members and leadership regularly seen at EDL protests/punch ups, they are effectively brownshirts. You also mention the EDL’s token ethnic minorities, last count was about 4 black people and one Sikh who is a profound racist.
Oh, and I notice your London/Cairo comparison. Yes, I’ll compare them, to the time when Cairo was a center of scholarship and research and London was a hotchpotch of villages in a decrepit Europe. Granted, it was a long time ago and granted that now it is in the reverse *however* that is simply how the world is, one rises, one falls, currently Europe and the US have had their time at the top, just as the Islamic Empires once did and are in decline. Next up will probably be Asia and good luck to them. I also believe Islam will rise up again from what I have seen and revert back to how it is meant to be. And yes, people like Zakariya will be instrumental to this.
That said, I must say I agree with you r.e. silly people spreading shite to the ignorant, thankfully I don’t see much of it in the Muslim world. And I agree regarding idiots of any faith who try and twist the system, especially if they do it for money.
Finally, you also seem to require to show your ‘superiority’ by poking fun at others, I find that rather pathetic and sad. You tone seems well practised and I will hazard you spend time goading Muslims both online and in real life, again, rather sad and pathetic. So, laugh all you wish if it makes you feel better but I think it shows more about you thank what you are laughing at.
December 12th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
@ Jack Cope,
I’ve already stated that my knowledge of the EDL is flimsy at best!
But you state thatthe BNP attend their rallies if that’s the case then the EDL can’t stop them;but that doesn’t suggest any affiliation.
If there is then show the evidence?
You say that economic ascendency is cyclicalthat may be so;but can you believe that Europe and the USA are in the decline?
Certainly China and the Far East are on the way up;but that doesn’t mean the West is going down;but the possibility of Islamic countries
despite their oil wealth rising to first world status is as likely as
pigs starting to fly.(Islam hamstrings progress that’s obvious if you ever travel to those benighted countries)
You agree with me on the subject of venal demagogues mouthing nonsense
to their brain dead followers and then go on to say that there’s not much of that in Islam.
Dearie me there’s a massive amount!just visit Memri TV or simply look up Muslim hate speeches on youtube.
The funniest has now been withdrawn(it showed some mentally deficient Imam talking about Angels attacking infidel cadavers in their coffins
with hammers which was then suplemented with an attack by 9 headed
snakes).
There’s also a re- enactment of “the elders of Zion” which everyone knows is a lie.
And yes as an Atheist I consider all faiths to be fertile material to poke fun at.Why is that pathetic? everybody laughs at nonsense fairy stories and there’s enough material on Islam to provide the theme for thousands of scripts.
If I were wealthy I’d try to commission a life of Moped(cf Life of Brian)with John Cleese as Allah and Rowan Atkinson as Mo.
You seem to suggest that laughing at the pathetic(Mohammedans)is tantamount to one’s own state of mind(I would humbly suggest you’re wrong)
Superiority well if not being able to laugh at raghead simpleton clerics and insane suicuide bombers then I would not be the person I am(a surgeon).
So get off your high cultural equivalentist horse and spur the Mohammedan brain dead into dumping the death cult and freeing themselves from slavery to imaginary Allah.
Laughter is good for you.
December 13th, 2010 at 2:05 am
Affiliation between the EDL and BNP is well known, a quick search of ‘BNP and EDL’ pulled up 196,000 results. I leave you this one for your reading pleasure since it has a load of hyperlinks:
http://www.nothingbritish.com/tag/edl/
Now, I do believe that Europe and the US are in decline. The US has been in decline for a long time, it’s only been cash injections and loans plus an unsustainable economic policy of letting people spend money they don’t have that has keep it afloat, even now I am being bombarded with offers to borrow money. Now, China pretty much owns the US due to the fact that the US and to some extent Europe is in huge debt to them and the fact that China holds huge amounts of US currency. The US’s response to this has been to print more dollars which China readily buys but again, this is not a sustainable policy. But there is not a lot that anyone can do now, the system is broken, the US and Europe are going to have to ‘reset’ and find something new and that will mean a decline and perhaps collapse.
Your knowledge of Islamic countries is also about as limited as your knowledge of the EDL. While many Islamic countries are in the shite these days that is mostly due to colonialism, prior to being colonized then Islamic nations were on the top of the pile, they will rise up there again. Islam does not hamstring growth, it encourages it if utilized correctly which does not happen these days due to a multitude of problems. But again, it will happen.
Your lack of knowledge also stems to what Muslims think though this is largely due to the sources you use, namely Memri and Youtube. Memri is hugely biased and cherry picks the worst of the lot, I have viewed some of their videos and many of them come from the crap channels that no one watches anyway, the equivalent of Terry Jones if you like. It also focuses on the Arab world which makes up less than 20% of all Muslims. So no, there is not a massive amount, I encourage that you look at Muslim websites or speak to Muslims to find out what we think. Reading the comments on this site (which is non-Muslim but with lots of Muslim commentators) would be a start.
Finally, your last bit. Yes, I do believe that when people laugh at things like you do, it is to somehow justify their position. My father is an atheist as is my mother (though she is more agnostic) yet neither of them feel the need to laugh at me or any of my religious friends, nor do any of the other atheists I know (and there are many). As I said, your tone is well practised and I again hazard that you spend much time doing it. You also seem to imply that a Muslim wouldn’t be able to reach your level. This is blatantly untrue, for starters my future wife, a strict Muslim, is currently training to be a surgeon (my health insurance
), her faith is what keeps her going through what you must know is a tough ten years of education (incidentally, her medical school is run by strict Buddhists and employs Christians, Hindus and a whole lot more as lecturers as well as having students from all backgrounds). I know a multitude of Muslims like that in all fields and pray with many of them. So no, I won’t spur Muslims out of a death cult, purely because there is no death cult to be spurred from. It exists in your mind, not ours.
December 13th, 2010 at 3:19 am
This thread is still open?!!!
hellosnackbar,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
Allahu A’lam
December 15th, 2010 at 3:49 am
Women wear it themselves. It is just a scarf on the head! Geert Wilders is offended by it well by similar logic Wilders should change his peroxide hair colour because it is offensive, Spencer should shave his beard because it is offensive and Geller should remove the Botox because it is also offensive. Democracy means freedom. Geert is a loon.
April 17th, 2011 at 9:46 pm
[Note from Admin: I leave the below comment to show the stupidity that is Islamophobia and the sort of deep seated bigotry and hate they espouse]
Wilders isn’t a Nazi! He’s not a bad person at all, and has nothing against any individual insofar as they follow the law, including Muslims. He simply believes that Islam is a fascist ideology, because it stifles creativity and debate, doesn’t integrate properly, oppresses women, advocates violence over free thought, is homophobic etc. It also causes poor-quality states wherever it holds major influence. Islam has a very poor record economically, culturally, by almost any standard. And of course people who speak against it often tend to end up dead or under 24-hour police protection, as Wilders is, a fact none of you saw fit to mention. Not a great advertisement for your religion.
@Mohammed Saleel “how cool is that?”. Saudi Arabia? Not very.
someone said: “While many Islamic countries are in the shite these days that is mostly due to colonialism.” Well, there we have it. Everything, everything, is always someone else’s fault. You won’t admit that Islam itself helps to stifle growth and knowledge and emancipation and science.
Do you know that more books are translated in Spain every year than have been translated into Arabic in the last thousand years?
I do hope Islam can make progress and address its own deep-seated problems and poor functional success. Until then, we are entitled in the West to be concerned about this often rather destructive religion.
April 17th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
JRT, oh dear oh dear oh dear. Of course the West isn’t free from abuse of women, nobody said that! BUT the numbers are much, much lower as the figures YOU quoted show!! AND any abuse will be prosecuted with the full force of the law in the West! And at least we HAVE women’s shelters! ANd we analyse our own societites and try to improve them dynamically! Sighh.
If you REALLY that think looking at a picture of a naked or half-naked woman who has freely chosen to show her body is morally equivalent to rape and domestic abuse then you are mentally ill. We love women’s bodies and that’s healthy. For the vast majority of us there is no disrespect in that admiration – most of us experience it as a positive, joyful aspect of our lives.
Twist sexuality,condemn it, repress it, you get more rape, more violence and more acts of disrespect. It’s simple and it’s been proven – legalising porn, for example, reduced sexual violence. But you don’t care, because you’re not allowed to change your mind, oops
June 2nd, 2011 at 9:12 am
“Now, I do believe that Europe and the US are in decline. The US has been in decline for a long time, it’s only been cash injections and loans plus an unsustainable economic policy of letting people spend money they don’t have that has keep it afloat, even now I am being bombarded with offers to borrow money. Now, China pretty much owns the US due to the fact that the US and to some extent Europe is in huge debt to them and the fact that China holds huge amounts of US currency. The US’s response to this has been to print more dollars which China readily buys but again, this is not a sustainable policy.”
Really? You might grasp two ideas: Print just that small incremental amount of money necessary to fund your incremental debt, and don’t worry about inflation, since the money will be in a bank vault in China and so cannot possibly cause inflation here in the US since it is not circulating at all and never mind, more importantly, in the US, and second, if all else fails, we do what the French did and simply prohibit repatriation of dollars. We give them paper and ink. They give us tangible goods. And so long as we incrementally increase the dollar supply we can play the game forever, or until the sun goes red giant and vaporizes us all, whichever comes first.
By the way for the loons at loon watch, if there is nothing wrong with Islam, then please explain the insanity inherent in whole nations threatening to sever diplomatic ties with Denmark simply because one man and his newspaper printed some damn cartoons. The period indicates a statement and not a question. To even begin to think of severing ties with a nation because one man and his newspaper run some cartoons pretty much says it all about the insanity that Islam has produced in the Muslim world. Oh, and loons, all cultures and creeds are not equal. Explains why suicide is not in the Top 10 causes of death in the US but comes in at No. 4 in the Republic of Korea (behind cancer, stroke, and heart attack/disease, not necessarily in that order). For how bad that is, accidental death, to include the ubiquitous motor vehicle accident related death, is lagging behind suicide as cause of death. 10th in the world our Korean friends in the ROK when it comes to suicide. So brand me a bigot for saying that something is fundamentally wrong with the culture when suicide comes in at no. 4. For a bonus freebie, put Youtube arab self-criticism and self doubt as your search term and watch part 3 of the recently uploaded vid compilation. The good Dr. isn’t at all thrilled with the hijab. Otherwise says that the Islamists have turned the women into soldiers, since that’s what they all look like. The end of part 3 is the other soul taking his fellows to task over the Danish cartoons. Also speaks to the hate preached during the Friday sermon. Here, I’ll save you the time and effort:
June 9th, 2011 at 3:21 am
Geert Wilders is suffering from the same problem Salman Rushdie did he has said/wrote something that is offensive to Islam and now his life is under threat. Now, whether what he said is right or wrong is not the issue anybody should be able to speak their views without having to worry if their life is in jeopardy.
The problem isn’t Muslims its how certain people interpret the quran. I have Muslim friends and they are fantastic people who would do anything for you, on the other hand I have also been spat at and called kuffar by a kosovan man. You get madness and opposing views everywhere.
On the subject of the Hijab, It is only oppression when it is forced upon the woman/girl. I also think a full face veil has no place in society I see it as anti social and we are social creatures and a lot of what we say comes across in our facial expressions.
Also can someone explain to me why they are called Honour killings there is no honour in murder, especially if it’s your daughter, I have a daughter and there is nothing she could do to me that would make me want to inflict any hurt on her (physically or mentally). On the contrary i would give my life for hers in a heartbeat.
Also finally
on the subject of religion in general. All this anger and frustration over something that isn’t true. As an Atheist I find it all quite mind boggling
July 14th, 2011 at 8:30 am
GEERT WILDERS IS AN AMAZING PESRON , PLEASSE KEEP SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THE PEDOPHILIC ISLAMIC CULT , ISLAM BELONGS TO 7TH CENTURY , FUCK ALL MUSLIMS , FUCK ALLAH
July 24th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
Geert Wilders has a Pig Face .
September 22nd, 2011 at 7:46 am
I find it interesting, that the dutch public have been so accepting of his party, his view which is clearly a hate filled message. The dutch were also the primary drivers fot apartheid in South Africa.
December 4th, 2011 at 6:32 pm
The Islam is an ideology, not a religion, Wilders is right about that. S
April 10th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Well, I don’t even know what is the problem with pple wit d way someone choose to dress .y can’t ppl just mind their own cup of tea?. If anybody who choose to cover up feels confortable wit it so b it and if otherwise be it. As far as am concern if u re feeling bad just bcos someone covers up than u shd know that u re missing something. Am am proud to use hijab!!!
April 10th, 2012 at 5:10 pm
@Stelwagen ( pseudo ),
If Islam is an ideology not a religion, Than care to explain to us, why it has all the characteristics of a religion?
April 20th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
Geert wilders ; as this site cleverly pointed out – is not a one stop hate mongerer . His party spews anti polish garbage and the man whom he explicitly refers to as his “mentor” a mister Frederik Bolkestein has stated that ” ( practicing ) jews have no place in the netherlands , they should either emigrate to the US or Israel ” . sick bigots , really .