The Moral Contortionist
On November 25th, we wrote about a wacky article that the failed academic and full time Likud apologist, Daniel Pipes wrote for the Jerusalem Post, in which he argued that US Congressman Keith Ellison, intellectual Tariq Ramadan and President of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan were a greater threat to Western Civilization than Al-Qaeda.
We wrote at the time,
According to the illogic of Pipes the greatest threat doesn’t come from Al-Qaeda, Ayatollah Khomeini or Nidal Hasan but rather from people like Dr. Tariq Ramadan and Congressman Keith Ellison. He accuses the two of being part of something he terms “Islamism 2.0.” This ridiculous term translates essentially into what Islamophobe Robert Spencer calls “Stealth Jihad,” or the subtle takeover of the West by peaceful, law-abiding Muslims who have a secret, sinister (stealth) goal to takeover the West and replace Democracy with Shariah law: in other words it’s a conspiracy theory.
Ayatollah Khomeini, Osama bin Laden, and Nidal Hasan represent Islamism 1.0, Recep Tayyip Erdogan (the prime minister of Turkey), Tariq Ramadan (a Swiss intellectual), and Keith Ellison (a US congressman) represent Islamism 2.0. The former kill more people but the latter pose a greater threat to Western civilization. (emphasis mine)
That Erdogan, Ramadan and Ellison can even be mentioned in the same sentence as equivalent to, or even more dangerous and threatening to the West than Bin Laden speaks volumes about Pipes’ preposterous agenda. Would Bin Laden have Turkey make peace with Armenia as Erdogan did? Would Bin Laden affirm Democracy as the way forward to better governance and equal rights as all three do? Would Bin Laden pledge to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America on Thomas Jefferson’s Qur’an as Keith Ellison did?
We never imagined Daniel Pipes would offer a response, as he usually isn’t too keen to get into a debate with anyone who challenges his weak and biased arguments. However, it seems this time Pipes couldn’t hold himself back. Prompted by a reader of his website, Aliya, who alerted Pipes to our rebuttal of his article, he responded by bringing the all too familiar response of those who have no arguments: comparing your subject to Hitler.
Submitted by Aliya (United Kingdom), Nov 27, 2009 at 06:49
Dr Pipes
Loon Watch, the Islamist Jewish/Eurabian (apparently George Soros and Saudi funded) website which wrote about your report
Daniel Pipes says Keith Ellison is a threat to Western Civilization
They’re asking, because Ellison is a Westerner, and Turkey will join the EU soon, Turks are European, Westerners already, so how can you say theTurkish President and Congressman Ellison are enemies of the West when they are westerners?
What would be your response to this?
Kind Regards
Aliya
Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.
Daniel Pipes replies:
Hiitler was a Westerner too, and he arguably did more to destroy Western civilization than anyone else in history.
The questioner sounds like another loon that we know, Pamela Geller who surmised that Loonwatch was a George Soros funded website, but she takes it a step further and includes all the possible conspiracy theories she can think of, not only are we George Soros funded but we are an, “Islamist Jewish/Eurabian (apparently George Soros and Saudi funded) website.” I love these loons, if half of what they said were true (Alas, my meager pockets) we would be rolling in the dough!! Soros and company we are still waiting on our checks!
Notice that Daniel Pipes really didn’t answer any of the arguments or questions in our article, my guess is he probably didn’t even read it. He looked at the way Aliya framed the question and answered it by equating Keith Ellison, Tariq Ramadan and Recep Erodogan, all fierce proponents of Democracy to the greatest mass-murderer of the 20th century. Quite despicable, and it seems to have become Daniel Pipes’ forte to side on the side of the despicable.
The real question however is, if Pipes is truly interested in “protecting Western Civilization,” why is he as silent as a mouse on the real threat: the new little Hitler’s springing up all over Europe? Why does Pipes ignore neo-fascist Geert Wilders who calls for the deportation of Mooslims, banning of the Quran, taxing the hijab, etc? Why does he not speak out against the fascist Northern League, why does he give his tacit approval of the minaret ban in Switzerland which he charachterizes as a vote against “Islamization?”
The new amendment also validates and potentially encourages resistance to Islamization throughout the continent.
The reality is ever clearer, Mr.Pipes doesn’t give two hoots about Democracy, for him Democracy is convenient when it fits his agenda but should be discarded the moment it is no longer of use.
December 21st, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Pipes will never change. The man has no guts, I see this as more proof of his cowardice. Loonwatch, he can’t really respond to you guys because he will dig a larger and deeper hole for himself if he does.
December 21st, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Could we find a school in which to educate all the Islamophobes?
December 21st, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Why Soros? That really doesn’t make any sense.
December 21st, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Wow. He is sinking lower and lower. I used to think that he was slightly better than Robert Spencer, but I don’t know anymore.
December 21st, 2009 at 3:45 pm
I hate to break it to you but Recep Erodogan is not a ‘fierce proponent’ of democracy since he supports Omar Hassan al-Bashir and said that a ‘muslim cannot commit genocide.’
December 21st, 2009 at 4:37 pm
mikail,
In right-wing alternate reality, anything that goes against their views can be tied to George Soros, Saudi Arabia, or jihad (pronounced GeeeeeHaaad by the wingnuts). It’s the Saudi-jihadi-Soros model of the world.
December 21st, 2009 at 4:42 pm
he’s getting desperate. I think he’s loosing his audience and is thus completely abandoning sutblty in an effort to regain his followers.
December 21st, 2009 at 5:43 pm
“Why Soros? That really doesn’t make any sense.”
Mikail, the Islamophobes who are allied to the right wing, see the left wing allied to Islamists. George Soros, is left wing. Most American Jews especially the wealty and influential are left Wing, and George Soros is maybe the richest of them all, and is known for funding left wing causes including Jewish causes.
Soros is a left wing billionaire Jew, and the right wing Jews see the left wing as their enemy and friends of mmoooooooslims, not least because much of the wealth is on the left wing side, so they make up fairy stories, call him a nazi, and all the usual smears.
George soros moveon.org is a leftist organisation that backed Obama and funds left wing causes as does his Soros foundation, and Open Society. He also funds Palestinan causes, and J Street, the new Jewish lobby, which is a competitor to AIPAC. J Street has Arab funders too.
AIPAC rival ‘J Street’ tied to Qatar, George Soros
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2009/me_gulf0835_10_26.asp
WASHINGTON — A new Jewish lobby that claims to be supportive of Israel has been linked to Qatar.
J Street the new Jewish lobby is funded by George Soros. That too is called “Islamist” because the crazy far right wing zionists see them as sympathetic to Palestinians and too freindly with Muslims.
here are some crazy right wing jews, talking about the soros, and the “leftist Islamist” alliance
George Soros Uses J-Street to Push his Pro-Iran Agenda
http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2009/04/george-soros-uses-j-street-to-push-his.html
Last Year George Soros funded the creation of “J Street” described as a “left wing alternative” to AIPAC.
Nazi Supporter George Soros Funding Islamist Run “Jewish” Group Dedicated to Destroying Israel
http://www.red-alerts.com/un-american-activities/surprise-nazi-supporter-george-soros-funding-islamist-run-jewish-group-dedicated-to-destroying-israel/
Islamist-Left Alliance A Growing Force
By STEVEN STALINSKY | May 9, 2007 http://www.nysun.com/foreign/islamist-left-alliance-a-growing-force/54077/
December 21st, 2009 at 7:38 pm
What Daniel Pipes said about Elison is really slanderous. Keith Elison should sue Daniel Pipes for slander. To be called equal to Hitler is preposterous. Decency is all tad and good, but for Elison to keep quiet over this will really send the wrong message.
People, are you aware that Daniel Pipes is not above threatening and suing himself? At his website he brags about the many apologies he has got from people who “slandered” him.
It is high time Keith Elison sued this odious failed academic, called Daniel Pipes. Maybe he should go back to Russia, because he is a bigger threat to Western civilisation, than Keith ever will be.
To Mikail
Mikail my boy, you have a lot to learn,
Eurabian means European and Arabian money, Soros and every rich Jew who doesn’t support the Likud rightists, both Christian and Jewish, are slandered and smeared, called Islamists and leftists, marxists, Kapo’s, Judenrat, Nazi’s, and every other evil you can think of, because they support a just peace in the Middle East, are anti war, pro peace, socialist, higher social status, educated, In short everything the rightists are not. I’m sure they are also jealous of them too.
George Soros has correctly noted that the media in Israel is more freer than the one in the USA which is controlled by right wingers, and doesn’t allow any criticism of Israeli crimes against Palestinians.
By comparison the left wing media in Israel, like much of the population has a free and critical media that allows healthy debate. The Israeli news media Haaretz, and YNET, and Jerusalem Post actually is more truthful than the American media.
December 21st, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Ellison had his picture taken with Irshad Manji, a highly secular and westernized muslim.
How is he destroying the west?
December 21st, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Keep the pressure up on these Loons, they need to get this message straight: we arent going anywhere, we’re here to stay and debunk each and everyone of their lies. Im doing all in my power to do the same thing here in Italy, where the situation is pretty bad.
December 22nd, 2009 at 2:08 am
AF,
Italy and all of Europe have gotten pretty bad. Send us any relevant links about stories there. I know the Northern League is pretty strong, and there have been anti-Mosque initiatives in many places.
December 22nd, 2009 at 3:06 am
Wow!
Isn’t Dr Pipes a prize hypocrite and a spectacular double faced miserable bigot?
Just listen to him. Congressman Ellison who works for America, was voted by Americans and espouses AMERICAN VALUES is a threat?? Is Pipes crazy? I may not think of Congressman Ellison as the best politician, but he is a million times for patriotic than Daniel Pipes.
Daniel Pipes with his loyalty to the Likud agenda, which goes clearly against what the West or the USA want’s is the enemy of the West.
It was Daniel Pipes, who dehumanises a people (Palestinians) and is more like Hitler in this respect, that Keith Ellison. Who did Keith Ellison dehumanise?
DANIEL PIPES IS THE ENEMY OF THE WEST. THE WEST DOES NOT SUPPORT THE LIKUD. THE WEST DOES NOT SUPPORT THE DEHUMANISATION OF PALESTINIANS. THE WEST DOES NOT SUPPORT ISRAELI APARTHEID.
December 22nd, 2009 at 5:04 am
OK, I’m really angered by this article. I still haven’t received a single check from Mr. Soros yet…and now I find out that we’re also getting Saudi money!? I’m going on strike now…no more articles until I see the $$$
I demand $100,000–all in pennies…Then I want to swim in my money like this:
http://www.datmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/scrooge_mcduck_swimming_in_money-300×237.jpg
December 22nd, 2009 at 6:25 am
Let Keith Know about this. Email him. Daniel Pipes iss the threat to us.
December 22nd, 2009 at 9:07 am
I had to chuckle at this
“not only are we George Soros funded but we are an, “Islamist Jewish/Eurabian (apparently George Soros and Saudi funded) website.” I love these loons, if half of what they said were true (Alas, my meager pockets) we would be rolling in the dough!! ”
It’s like the old joke about the story of a Jewish man who was riding on the subway reading a Neo-Nazi newspaper. A friend of his, who happened to be riding in the same subway car, noticed this strange phenomenon. Very upset, he approached the newspaper reader:
“Moshe, have you lost your mind? Why are you reading a Neo-Nazi newspaper?”
Moshe replied: “I used to read the Jewish newspaper, but what did I find? Anti-Semitism in Europe, terrorism in Israel, Jews disappearing through assimilation and intermarriage, Jews living in poverty. So I switched to the Neo-Nazi newspaper. Now what do I find? Jews own all the banks, Jews control the media, Jews are all rich and powerful, Jews rule the world.
The news is so much better!”
December 22nd, 2009 at 9:41 am
What I love is how the loons (and Pamela Geller in particular) try to jam pack as many allegations and stereotypes as they can in one sentence. So it’s not only George Soros but ALSO Saudi money! Kill two birds with one stone.
December 22nd, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Ellison is one of the most admired congressmen today. (Daniel Pipes is a boob).
Today’s National Journal: “Insiders Poll” — Which House member do you most admire?
Congressional Insiders:
#1 Nancy Pelosi
#1 Steny Hoyer
#3 John Dingell
#4 Keith Ellison
#4 Barney Frank
#4 John Lewis
#4 Henry Waxman
December 22nd, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Good update Garibaldi,
I’m a bit puzzled that the likes of Daniel Pipes can equate Erdogen and Elison to Hitler and neither of these prominent men respond.
I can understand Elison ignoring it, under the Free Speech laws, but…I’d like to hear what the Turkish President would say to this, i’d email him if i had his email…if we have any Turkish readers of Loon Watch, could they help here?
Erdogen is not known to tolerate bullshit like this easily, he has been openly speaking out against the Israeli’s.
Now back to the subject…I want highlight something very important here. .
Because Turkey and Israel were pally, the right wing zionists in the usa were largely behind that Armenian genocide being not recognised . There was a lot of hoopla at that time that they only covered for Turkey because she was a friend of Israel. Pipes and his ilk never talked about it.
Now that has changed. Why has it changed? Why are neocons attackign Turkey?
Since Erdogen started speaking out againt Israel, the attitude of Jewish neocons like Daniel Pipes is becoming critical and theystarted to crticisise him, even talking about the Armenien genocide, which they didn’t before for selfish reasons.
Once again showing their dubious morals. They will overlook the Armenian genocide if turkey supports Israel, while makeing a big noise about the Darfur one because it has Arab’s behind it.
Daniel Pipes is a prize hypocrite. I think he is sour that erdogen is re evaluating Turkeys relation with Israel, that’s why he includes Erdogen in his “islamist 3″
Daniel Pipes is also against Turkey joining the EU, something that the US supports, so what is this guy doing by saying Elison is a threat?
Daniel Pipes and his ilk is the real threat to America.
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:44 am
Actually it’s perfectly fair to equate Erdogan with hitler, apart from the fact that he supports al-bashir, Tayyip also denies the Armenian genocide which heavily influenced hitler and his ‘a muslim cannot commit genocide’ comment reveals a supremacist mentality that is comparable to nazism.
December 24th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
But Cassidy, surely a Muslim can’t commit genocide any more that a Christian or a Jew can. It’s like saying a vegetarian can’t eat meat. If they eat meat, they are no longer a vegetarian. If you carry out an act of genocide you are breaking the tenets of Islam, of Judaism and of Christianity - so you can no longer call yourself a follower of those religions.
Denying the Armenian genocide, like denying the Holocaust, denying that Obama is an American or denying that Israel targeted civilians in Gaza, may make Erdogan deluded but it doesn’t merit a comparison with Hitler. Pipes is as deluded as any Holocaust denier, 9/11 Truther or Birther, but to compare him with Hitler would be to assign him an importance he will never have.
December 24th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
@Rob, a first off yes a muslim can commit genocide and I don’t think you understand what Erdogan exactly said and how much it much indicates a supremacist mentality, pretend a country’s leader welcomed Ratko Mladic and said that a White person ‘can’t commit genocide’ you wouldn’t have a problem with that? Second of all denying that Obama is an America is extremely stupid but it isn’t half as repugnant as deny genocide. And yes it does merit a comparison to Hitler since Ergodan clearly has a naziesque supremacist mentality and not only denies but by supporting al-bashir supports genocide.
December 24th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
“But Cassidy, surely a Muslim can’t commit genocide any more that a Christian or a Jew can. It’s like saying a vegetarian can’t eat meat. If they eat meat, they are no longer a vegetarian. If you carry out an act of genocide you are breaking the tenets of Islam, of Judaism and of Christianity - so you can no longer call yourself a follower of those religions.”
Rob I disagree,
In Islam there is a punishment for murder, and it is death by a court. So if you comit a genocide, you will be punished for murder.
Same in Judaism i believe. It should be the same in Chrisitnaity, if Chrisitanity hadn’t dumpled the “old testament” laws. Speaking purely from religous terms of course, since Christian law isn’t applied in any country it doesn’t count. The death sentence in the USA is a secular punishment not a religious one.
By sinning you do not cease to be a follower of a religion. If you could, then punishment would not exist. Why does a punishment for murder exist if you are no longer Muslim?
The definition of being a Muslim is someone who believes in a true heart the Islamic creed (Shahda).
December 25th, 2009 at 4:41 am
The person who enquired why George Soros is feared by Islamophobes and Loons, may find this useful. It was written in response to the settler supporter, Lenny Ben Davis. In a nutshell, it’s because Soros actively fights the right wing settler movement, colonising and occupation supporters.
Save Israel From Its Rightwing Destroyers
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/23/aipacs_ex-joe_mccarthy_on_j_street_again/#more
By M.J. Rosenberg - December 23, 2009, 9:08AM
Check out this limp hit by Lenny Ben David, the West Bank settler who has been tasked with smearing J Street by investigating its donors. Lenny, who was sent packing by AIPAC after 25 years, now sits in his settlement working to bring down the organization (J Street) that hugely irritates the people who let him go. Weird.
……Rightwing Jews and others use Soros the way the Nazis used…the Jews. He is their all-purpose bogey man. Types like Lenny despise Soros because Soros is a racial liberal, supported Obama and does not support right-wing Jewish causes.
…..To Lenny and his ilk, Soros is a cosmopolitan Jew, someone who refuses to limit his concerns to any one group. No, through his Open Society and a host of other programs, Soros has improved the lives of tens of millions. But the Lennies are furious that he doesn’t support the Likud platform or any form of ethnic chauvinism. The Jewish right, like anti-semites, insist that Jews are united by ties of blood and that, wherever we live, our loyalties are to each other. Not true by a long shot and Soros, for sure, doesn’t buy it.
Soros is a great man and a great Jew. But no blood nationalist.
Lenny also tries to hit J Street by citing its support for the Saudi peace plan, also known as the Arab Peace Initiative.
……Both the United States and the Israeli government have praised the Saudi initiative although neither has acted on their endorsement.
But the settlers are terrified of the Saudi plan because, if it is implemented, their colonies will disappear.
And that is why Lenny is penning screeds. He’s scared.
December 26th, 2009 at 1:24 am
“Could we find a school in which to educate all the Islamophobes?”
Could you perhaps give me the address of your local Madrassah. I am sure all my “misconceptions” about Islam will go away, and Inshallah, I will see things in the proper light.