Don’t expect to see this news on Spencer’s blog.
Egypt’s Muslims attend Coptic Christmas mass, serving as “human shields”
Egypt’s majority Muslim population stuck to its word Thursday night. What had been a promise of solidarity to the weary Coptic community, was honoured, when thousands of Muslims showed up at Coptic Christmas eve mass services in churches around the country and at candle light vigils held outside.
From the well-known to the unknown, Muslims had offered their bodies as “human shields” for last night’s mass, making a pledge to collectively fight the threat of Islamic militants and towards an Egypt free from sectarian strife.
“We either live together, or we die together,” was the sloganeering genius of Mohamed El-Sawy, a Muslim arts tycoon whose cultural centre distributed flyers at churches in Cairo Thursday night, and who has been credited with first floating the “human shield” idea.
Among those shields were movie stars Adel Imam and Yousra, popular preacher Amr Khaled, the two sons of President Hosni Mubarak, and thousands of citizens who have said they consider the attack one on Egypt as a whole.
“This is not about us and them,” said Dalia Mustafa, a student who attended mass at Virgin Mary Church on Maraashly. “We are one. This was an attack on Egypt as a whole, and I am standing with the Copts because the only way things will change in this country is if we come together.”
In the days following the brutal attack on Saints Church in Alexandria, which left 21 dead on New Year’ eve, solidarity between Muslims and Copts has seen an unprecedented peak. Millions of Egyptians changed their Facebook profile pictures to the image of a cross within a crescent – the symbol of an “Egypt for All”. Around the city, banners went up calling for unity, and depicting mosques and churches, crosses and crescents, together as one.
The attack has rocked a nation that is no stranger to acts of terror, against all of Muslims, Jews and Copts. In January of last year, on the eve of Coptic Christmas, a drive-by shooting in the southern town of Nag Hammadi killed eight Copts as they were leaving Church following mass. In 2004 and 2005, bombings in the Red Sea resorts of Taba and Sharm El-Sheikh claimed over 100 lives, and in the late 90’s, Islamic militants executed a series of bombings and massacres that left dozens dead.
This attack though comes after a series of more recent incidents that have left Egyptians feeling left out in the cold by a government meant to protect them.
Last summer, 28-year-old businessman Khaled Said was beaten to death by police, also in Alexandria, causing a local and international uproar. Around his death, there have been numerous other reports of police brutality, random arrests and torture.
Last year was also witness to a brutal parliamentary election process in which the government’s security apparatus and thugs seemed to spiral out of control. The result, aside from injuries and deaths, was a sweeping win by the ruling party thanks to its own carefully-orchestrated campaign that included vote-rigging, corruption and rife brutality. The opposition was essentially annihilated. And just days before the elections, Copts – who make up 10 percent of the population – were once again the subject of persecution, when a government moratorium on construction of a Christian community centre resulted in clashes between police and protestors. Two people were left dead and over 100 were detained, facing sentences of up to life in jail.
The economic woes of a country that favours the rich have only exacerbated the frustration of a population of 80 million whose majority struggle each day to survive. Accounts of thefts, drugs, and violence have surged in recent years, and the chorus of voices of discontent has continued to grow.
The terror attack that struck the country on New Year’s eve is in many ways a final straw – a breaking point, not just for the Coptic community, but for Muslims as well, who too feel marginalized, persecuted, and overlooked, by a government that fails to address their needs. On this Coptic Christmas eve, the solidarity was not just one of religion, but of a desperate and collective plea for a better life and a government with accountability.
January 7th, 2011 at 5:42 pm
Awwwwww
I love this
January 7th, 2011 at 5:51 pm
“From the well-known to the unknown, Muslims had offered their bodies as “human shields” for last night’s mass, making a pledge to collectively fight the threat of Islamic militants and towards an Egypt free from sectarian strife”
This is the best news story I have read in a long time. If the world’s Muslims could just learn from the example set by Egypt’s Muslims, then the persecution of minorities in the Islamic world will be over, and Robert Spencer will no longer be able to whine about “Dhimmis”. Pakistan should definitely pay attention to this news article.
January 7th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
Thats the way to do it. Muslims reaching out to their Christian brothers and sisters. Of course this story distressed the human vulture robert spenser he needs hatred, death and fear to make money.
January 7th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
Well, there goes my “all Muslims are evil” argument..
January 7th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
Great news! True, don’t expect this to be shown on Spencer’s and GF’s Geller’s blog.
January 7th, 2011 at 7:46 pm
That’s nice
January 7th, 2011 at 8:00 pm
Someone paste the URL of this page on David Whorowitz’s FrontPageMag or JihadWatch. The loons there are in serious need of some perspective, as well as a reality check.
January 7th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
Now how can we make this into mainstream news?
I love this new site except the dates are a bit confusing. The 07 looks like 2007 instead of day 7.
January 8th, 2011 at 1:01 am
Okay, things are back to normal now…good! The new site was nice, but was taking eons to load on my browser…
Anyways, why does LW want to change the site design? The current orange design makes loonwatch.com one of the most colorful and eye-catching websites on the internet.
January 8th, 2011 at 1:27 am
^i agree
Allahu A’lam
January 8th, 2011 at 1:57 am
I agree with Khushboo regarding the “Jan 07″ date format. It’s a bit confusing.
January 8th, 2011 at 2:28 am
Here’s Prof Juan Cole’s take on it.
I wonder how this can be spun by the “loons” to show how evil Islam is as a religion etc. etc. as we’ve come to expect? Or maybe they will just ignore it like they have done with other events/articles.
January 8th, 2011 at 2:47 am
oops, that should say *violent religion, not just religion, lol!
January 8th, 2011 at 3:16 am
Dawood
or is it a political movement ? lol
January 8th, 2011 at 3:34 am
Looks like Pakistani Muslims can learn quite a bit from this.
January 8th, 2011 at 3:47 am
Well this is good news, kudos to these Egyptian Muslims,
But I bet the people who arranged this and went to show solidarity with the Coptic Christians were those who would not persecute them in the first place.
Something needs to be done about those who inist on persecuting Copts. The apathy of the government doesn’t help, making statements is one thing, but if there was less corruption, and the politicians (who can be bribed) are not interested in minority rights when many of the mainstream don’t have rights.
and to the people above who were commenting on pakistan christians, there was a murder of politican who stood up for the blasphemy law repeal.
The blasphemy laws should be repealed simply because they’re a tool of abuse used by those who have little understanding of what the blasphemy law is really about or how to implement it, and more about settling personal scores.
This was one of the reasons that Kamal Ataturk wanted a separate of state and religion, not because of the incompatibility of Islamic laws but that they could be misused by the ignorant.
Thus a person who wants to settle a dispute and get revenge can accuse their oppononet of a religious crime, if the punishment is severe, or threaten.
January 8th, 2011 at 4:02 am
as to the comments on how to get the MSM to cover this story, i’d recommend readers email or phone CNN and FOX for starters, by filling in the forms below, and to keep the links for future tips.
CNN news tips
edition.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form11b.html?7
Fox News
newsmanager@foxnews.com
We Love to Hear From Our Viewers!
foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77538,00.html
January 8th, 2011 at 6:58 am
This is exemplary behavior. Muslims all around the world should take note.
January 8th, 2011 at 8:27 am
well done Garibaldi, But just curious to know did you pick up this news from the tip I sent last night or from some other source?
January 8th, 2011 at 9:47 am
I agree with Tom Thumb and Muhammad ‘Abd-al Haqq; the current design of Loonwatch is good. However, it would be nice if it was made easier to access Danios’ refutations of Spencer on Dhimmitude, rape in Sharia, Taqiyya and Kitman, etc because factual refutations are often more convincing and effective than simply keeping track of Islamophobia. Although both are still important, of course.
January 8th, 2011 at 9:52 am
If you look closely, the Islamic crescent looks like a mouth about to eat the Christian cross, once again displaying Muslims tendency to show supremacy, and all you stupid liberal dhimmies never noticed! (sarcasm)
In all seriousness tho, that is a touching photo
January 8th, 2011 at 10:58 am
“However, it would be nice if it was made easier to access Danios’ refutations of Spencer on Dhimmitude, rape in Sharia, Taqiyya and Kitman, etc because factual refutations are often more convincing and effective than simply keeping track of Islamophobia. ”
I was just thinking that! They should be a section on the homepage to access them because new visitors to the site will have not seen them before. I believe that they are the most important thing that Loonwatch has done and any Spencerite who comes on this site should have the truth about Spencer’s lies thrown in their face.
January 8th, 2011 at 11:49 am
This is amazing. THIS is Islam.
January 8th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
Mohammed Sameel we picked up on this before you contacted us, but thanks for the tip.
January 8th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
Anyone ever notice how JihadWatch doesn’t screen comments, whereas anti-anti-Jihad sites like LoonWatch have to delete the posts of anyone they don’t agree with.
January 8th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
@John,
Robert Spencer and JihadWatch do censor comments. Try linking Spencerwatch on any of the comments over there and watch it be deleted. Comments such as yours that contain latent racism, open Islamophobia and intellectual bile are more than adequately represented with the likes of HalalPork and JihadBob.
January 8th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
John:
I was actually banned from JihadWatch for posting a link to Loonwatch.
January 8th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Muslim Zionist, you’re right about the Pakistani politician (Punjab governor) who died b/c he was against the death penalty of a woman who was accused of blasphemy. I hope that bodyguard who killed him gets punished for what he’s done! The villagers who support this killer are uneducated idiots!
I hope to see more Pakistanis speak out like the governor did and not let fear get in the way.
January 8th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
Khusboo: The villagers who support this killer are uneducated idiots!
That’s why they’re villagers.
January 8th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
A regime that favors the rich encourages cruel fanatacism… in Egypt, Pakistan, and here, too. A people enraged by injustice all too easily deflect their rage to a single scapegoat or an outgroup, and their oppressors are only too eager to point targets out to them. It doesn’t matter if the disenfranchised one is a delanded peasant, a pedicabbie who can no longer feed his family, or an American blue collar whose job has been outsourced. He is furious, and the hierarchalists who have disenfranchised him don’t need to have his attention directed to the source of his misery. Copts, Sufis, Mexicans, A-rabs — what useful distractions they make! Meanwhile, look at the people stirring up the discord… none of them are living on saltines, are they?
January 8th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
@ John
Anyone ever notice how JihadWatch doesn’t screen comments, whereas anti-anti-Jihad sites like LoonWatch have to delete the posts of anyone they don’t agree with.
uh no way, and a lot less recently. If you toook the time to read through many of loonwatch’s popular articles, you’ll find comments from halalpork, jihadbob, rocky lore (his are rare) etc. idk about Jwatch not only deletes comments, but deletes WHOLE ARTICLES, rather then admitting he was wrong. you decide which is worse considering censorship
January 8th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
Here’s an article about the Bosnian Genocide that Spencer deleted; he was basically denying that it ever happenned so it’s obvious why. Unfortunately for him the internet has a long memory.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:f-yz69p5fLcJ:www.jihadwatch.org/2009/08/after-14-years-of-investigating-events-that-took-place-in-srebrenica-in-1995-i-can-attest-there-was.html+www.jihadwatch.org/2009/08/after-14-years-of-investigating-events-that-took-place-in-srebrenica-in-1995-i-can-attest-there-was.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
January 8th, 2011 at 9:38 pm
Robert spencer is outraged
January 8th, 2011 at 10:29 pm
Good find NasirH – In one of the posts in the comments section Spencer wrote, “You need to pay closer attention. I’ve never changed my position on this. Search the archives.”
Apparently he later had a change of heart and deleted the entire post. Its a blessing for him that most of his blog readers have acute ADD.
January 9th, 2011 at 2:49 am
@NassirH
notice how Bob says in that same comment section:
“Anyone who views the world through an “evil muslims vs the good everyone else” prism is a fool. “
Strange, you would’ve thought that he cherishes this notion as a precious and viable business model. He certainly does operate on it at the very least…
January 9th, 2011 at 3:57 am
@Khushboo: “The villagers who support this killer are uneducated idiots!”
Please, a lot of the people who support Qadri are far from villagers. There are Pakistanis even in the West who praised the murderer, such as a href=”http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f18/pakistan-attack-kills-punjab-governor-41238/”>here. Those who join pro-Qadri pages on Facebook are not “uneducated” either, especially when many of them are in school for engineering.
January 9th, 2011 at 3:58 am
*Here
January 9th, 2011 at 5:01 am
I agree, they don’t have to be uneducated villagers. The fact is that whoever believes that a blasphemer should be killed will most likely support Qadri and until everyone realises that blasphemy is not punishable by death, then things like this will keep happening. There may be other reasons that people disliked Salman Taseer, because he was rich and powerful, but that is the main reason they are supporting his killer.
January 9th, 2011 at 7:23 am
What do you think could be done about Egyptian bigotry against Jews, described in posts here and here by a British Muslim who went to Egypt to study Arabic?
I suspect the nature of the Egyptian regime doesn’t help, as it uses the Jews as scapegoats for its own failings.
January 9th, 2011 at 7:46 am
Sadly there are huge numbers of “educated” people supporting the murder of Salman Taseer, in regards to the true message of Islam and the Prophets life Pakistanis are lacking in knowledge on it. The vast majority of people have never read the Quran and understood it, it is taught almost in all Madrassas only in Arabic and there is very little interest in understanding what they read. Even though many become Hafiz (People who learn the Quran by heart) few can actually translate into Urdu or Punjabi. Thus many are taught by those with very little knowledge of the life of the prophet, after all all Muslims are taught to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet ( the actions by which he lived his life) now we know he recieved huge amounts of verbal and physical abuse and not once did he raise his voice or fist to his his abusers, in fact he would approach his abusers with compassion and love. Therefore if one claims to follow the sunnah he or she must then look at the actions of the prophet and follow suit, as we know this is not the case in Pakistan, I have travelled to pakistan a few times and what i find is almost a blind faith, people falling over themselves to claim love for Islam and the Prophet yet ignoring all other aspects of the faith. It is a very complex issue with pakistan and the lack of Islamic edcation is the tip of a huge iceberg. This is a country which has been a pawn in wars by proxy, and a country in which the political masses have milked the support of he extremist elements in creating this fear of Islam being undermined within the country, until more money is poured in establishing free education for the masses then this cycle will continue, the word of the village Imam is final and in the vast majority of cases wrong.
January 9th, 2011 at 11:06 am
Regarding the murder of Salman Taseer, it’s worth mentioning that vigilantism is strictly forbidden in Islam, regardless of one’s opinion of blasphemy laws.
“Al-Qurtubi said:
There is no dispute among the scholars that qisaas (retaliatory punishments) such as execution cannot be carried out except by those in authority who are obliged to carry out the qisaas and carry out hadd punishments etc, because Allaah has addressed the command regarding qisaas to all the Muslims, and it is not possible for all the Muslims to get together to carry out the qisaas, which is why they appointed a leader who may represent them in carrying out the qisaas and hadd punishments.
Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 2/245, 246.
No one should carry out the hadd punishments without the permission of the ruler. If there is no ruler who rules according to sharee’ah then it is not permissible for the ordinary people to carry out the hadd [corporal] punishments. Whoever does that is sinning, because carrying out the hadd punishments requires examining the matter and requires shar’i knowledge in order to know the conditions of proof.
The ordinary people have no knowledge of such things, and the carrying out of one of the hadd punishments by the ordinary people leads to many evils and the loss of security, whereby people will attack one another and kill one another or chop off one another’s hands on the grounds that they are carrying out hadd punishments”
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/8980/Adultery%20punishment
January 9th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
@NasserH: Apparently the ulema in Pakistan have forgotten that memo.
January 9th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
Certain Muslim leaders in Pakistan just want the attention. They are “political maulvis” wanting to feel like they can still control everything, when they in fact have very little ‘real’ power. So they pull off stunts like this, even when they are technically un-Islamic, to show that they are in control.
They make the good Imams look bad. The good imams that would be pointing out the stuff NassirH has found are now silent, because even they can be wiped out in seconds if they dare say anything.
January 9th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
And I’d just like to add that Nassir’s link is from what is considered an extremely conservative schollar (pretty much a Wahhibi). Just goes to show really.
January 9th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
I was actually banned from JihadWatch for posting a link to Loonwatch.
I’m IP banned from LW.
Oh well, I had a lot to say about this recent massacre.
But I guess we shouldn’t listen to the people who actually predicted this would happen, now should we?
January 9th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
I’m IP banned from LW.
Either you’re lying (which is probably the case, telling from your history here), or you’re so obsessed with trolling Loonwatch and hating on Muslims that you actually went to a place with a differenct IP.
January 9th, 2011 at 1:59 pm
I am indeed at a different location but I’m not here so I can post on LW.
LoL.
Is HalalPork IP banned too?
January 9th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
Is HalalPork IP banned too?
Don’t know, he probably wasn’t. Do you miss your buddy?
However, I do know that me, MP11, Muzzammil, others were banned from JihadWatch for pointing out examples of Robert Spencer’s lies and hatred.
January 9th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
”But I guess we shouldn’t listen to the people who actually predicted this would happen, now should we?”
I’m sure you put your psychic powers to good use and alerted the Egyptian authorities before this happened. Oh wait, you didn’t so that you could gloat about predicting this attack.
Loon.
January 9th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Muzzammil, our favorite plagiarizer?
(by plagiarized, I mean he ripped the quotes and sources he uses in his articles from other writers)
January 9th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
I’m still waiting for Jingoist Bob’s prediction about Oklahoma being overtaken by less than 1% of its population to come true.
Maybe it’s time for you tap into the Mooslim psyche once again, eh Bob?
January 9th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
(by plagiarized, I mean he ripped the quotes and sources he uses in his articles from other writers)
Muzzammil ripped Robert Spencer, who is a plagiarizer who stole the work of his fellow bigot.
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/04/the-great-blog-wars-andrew-bostom-vs-robert-spencer/
January 9th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
I agree with Dan regarding NassirH’s link,
When you scratch the surface of anti Zionist extremist Muslims (as NassirH proved he was) in the thread below, their problem is not the ocucpation or Israeli crimes against palestinains (which Muslim Zionists do not approve of contrary to what NassirH inferred). Their problem is that Israel exists at all. To this end he tried to use other anti zion bigots like Rosy (who blamed EUro Islamphobia on the Israel lobby and Jew lobby)
Loon Watch
Behold the bigotry and double standard of NassirH.
loonwatch.com/2011/01/half-of-france-and-germany-see-muslims-as-threat/
NassirH tried to thuggishly impose his INTOLERANCE of others religious beliefs, by insisting I not link to Sheikh Palazzi’s site, with the lame excuse that it would offend Muslims here. No thought as to those Muslims who do support Israel. I’m sure there are those here too.
Now he himself posted a link from Sheikh al Munajid a scholar many Muslims do not follow, and who recommends this regarding Jews and Israel:
———–
What is the way of solving the Palestinian issue which becomes more complicated each day?
islam-qa.com/en/ref/21977
Praise be to Allaah.
Hence I think that a solution cannot be reached in this matter unless it is regarded as an Islamic issue and the Muslims cooperate to find a solution, and wage an Islamic jihad against the Jews, until the land is given back to its people and the Jewish immigrants go back to the countries from which they came, and the original Jewish inhabitants stay in their towns under Islamic rule, not communist or secular rule. In this manner truth will prevail and falsehood will be defeated, and the people whose land it is will return to their land under Islamic rule and none other. And Allaah is the source of strength.
Thus NassirH according to his own logic dictates that Israel has no right to exist.
Unlike him, I am not intolerant enough to object to that religious belief (though I believe it will never come to pass) but I do object to his intolerance of Muslim Zionists, and smearing of Sheikh Palazzi. It seems like he is projecting his own bigotry on others. He also inferred that readers here should pander to and do as what the Muslims here (he means those whose views he shares) and that Loon Watch is representative of what majority Muslims here believe.
The thing is NassirH is out of order. It’s Loon Watch that fights hate and intolerance including anti Zionist intolerance.
The problem with anti zionists like NassirH is not the ocucpation it’s that Israel EXISTS.
January 9th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
Apologies, I said I agree with Dan, it was actually Dr Evil, who commented on NassirH’s link.
January 9th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Son i am angered that you have been banned, that now makes two parks, three schools and one website that have banned you! However i fail to understand how you could have exposed yourself on this site? I have always tried to explain to you son that you must only take your clothes off in your room, oh well i am sure you will learn one day.
January 9th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
Don why should only muslims around the world take note? I feel christians , jews, hindus and muslims should take note.
January 9th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
Muslim Zionists:
Now he himself posted a link from Sheikh al Munajid a scholar many Muslims do not follow, and who recommends this regarding Jews and Israel:
Yeah, yeah, yeah…as if Palazzi is followed by many Muslims, especially considering his appearance on David Horowitz’s FrontPageMag. The link was from Danios’ article on apostasy, and it was used by Danios to show that Muslims who commit sins in secular countries are free from the punishments stipulated by traditional Islamic law. Danios also pointed out that the cited website was Saudi-based and ultraconservative.
http://www.loonwatch.com/2009/09/apostasy/
January 9th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
Muslim Zionists:
Again, just because I linked to a Saudi-based, ultraconservative website, it doesn’t mean that I support everything that’s on that particular website. I used it because—as I’ve already made clear—Danios used it in his article about Rifqa Bary and apostasy. You can’t really compare linking to a site for the purpose of making a point to having the name “Muslim Zionists”, and having that aforementioned name link to a crazy Zionist website.
The thing is NassirH is out of order. It’s Loon Watch that fights hate and intolerance including anti Zionist intolerance.
That’s not what Loonwatch’s mission statement says, and I doubt you could find anyone else that would claim Loonwatch is pro-Zionist. In fact, many (if not all) of the loons featured on Loonwatch are Zionists, including David Horowitz, Robert Spencer, and Pamela Geller.
January 9th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
Actually, I made that comment saying that even more extreme/conservative schollars like the one quoted agree on issues such as that and thus in a roundabout way shows that the loons are wrong to say stuff like ‘moderate Muslims don’t follow Islam correctly’ since even the more fundamentalists such as the one linked to agree with then. Not anything about Nassir because I, like everyone else, am staying out of the mudfight, I’m to busy taking over the world for that.
January 9th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
NassirH
I don’t care what you believe, nor have i any interest in your nonsense, just keep your nose out of my business, and don’t try to impose your bigoted views on others.
January 9th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
And bob please do share your stuff about this recent atrocity, I am sure we would love to hear it. Mostly for the comedy value of watching you gloat that you predicted a load of people would be killed, which is effectively like me ‘predicting’ that within the next 20 seconds I will take a breath, i.e. we knew some nutters would do it again and it proves nothing other than that there are nutters. As has been said before, it is like you want these things to happen so they can enforce your ‘view’ on others using your selective headline grabbing way. Carry on.
January 9th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Muslim Zionist:
What exactly did I say that was bigoted? It seems that I simply asked about your website, and consequently, you started your little cyberwar against me. It also seems that I’m not the only one you called [insert ad hominem here] for disagreeing with you about Zionism.
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/01/half-of-france-and-germany-see-muslims-as-threat/
You would think that if you didn’t care what I believe, as you just claimed, then you wouldn’t pop up on a random thread and tell me that I support whatever Sheik al Munajid said about Palestine.
January 9th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
Like i said, mind your own business.
January 10th, 2011 at 12:14 am
Seriously BMD, why do you always go batshit when somebody disagrees with you (or what you perceive as disagreeing with you) about Zionism? Take it easy.
January 10th, 2011 at 7:01 am
“But I guess we shouldn’t listen to the people who actually predicted this would happen, now should we?”
You predicted thousands of Egyptian Muslims would volunteer to risk their lives to protet their Coptic fellow citizens?
January 10th, 2011 at 9:16 am
You predicted thousands of Egyptian Muslims would volunteer to risk their lives to protet their Coptic fellow citizens?
Do you have any independent information or do we just believe that because one article said so.
How many of those ‘thousands’ do you think believe ‘Zionists’ were responsible for this massacre?
10%? 30%? 50? 70%? 85%?
But really, Ian. You of all people should be the last to go at me considering our last exhange.
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/11/muslim-woman-was-cursed-and-spat-on-in-walmart/#comment-34753
Can we say that you are?
January 10th, 2011 at 9:23 am
How many of those ‘thousands’ do you think believe ‘Zionists’ were responsible for this massacre?
That is an extremely weak argument (but I guess it’s in line with your whole ‘Muslims are terrible people’ theory), as even you don’t know how many would think that. Which really doesn’t matter because even if 100% of them believe Zionists did it, it is still exemplary behaviour. But to squash your claims, the Egyptian government believes that Al Qaeda are responsible.
You’re still an extremely terrible person for rejoicing, and gloating that you predicted the murder of these innocent Copts. Which is testament to your extremely weak arguments, and low standard of morals. Absolutely disgusting.
January 10th, 2011 at 9:57 am
But to squash your claims, the Egyptian government believes that Al Qaeda are responsible.
The authorities are not the masses. At best, the rulers only pay lip service to conspiracy theories and anti-Semitic diatribe.
And that’s sad, because when the current rulers are gone, someone extremely crazy will take their place.
January 10th, 2011 at 10:26 am
I forget, you have the ability to tap into the Muslim psyche, wherever it may be. Seriously though, you’re going to have to do better than ‘but but but…they probably think it was teh Zionists’ if you’re going to try and downplay this wonderful display of solidarity.
Come on IPbanBob, I thought all this time you were strengthening your fallacious arguments. But so far your comeback consists of tu quoque, cherry-picking single sentences out of paragraphs and conjecture. *Yawn*.
January 10th, 2011 at 10:53 am
The fact that some Muslims blame the attack on the Church on Zionists is proof that they find the act so repugnant that it could not possibly have been done by Muslims. Even those Muslims that do blame Zionists do so because they find this act to be so terrible that it could only have been done by their worst enemy–Israel.
You moan when Muslims take responsibility for terrorist acts and now you whine that some are blaming terrorism on Zionists.
January 10th, 2011 at 11:18 am
@Jihad bobs dad -
Personally I’m not islamophobic but I really think they should outlaw certain parts of quran regarding sharia and taqiyya before more people misintepret it.
I’ve witness and experienced first hand how the muslims mistreat their minorities with their laws in south east asia(I’m south east asian) so naturally I am abit skeptical.
January 10th, 2011 at 11:24 am
Don? Does that mean you are up for banning misinterpritable parts of all holy books?
January 10th, 2011 at 11:44 am
How many of those ‘thousands’ do you think believe ‘Zionists’ were responsible for this massacre?
10%? 30%? 50? 70%? 85%?
It is only logical to suspect that Zionists would be responsible for it.
The authorities are not the masses. At best, the rulers only pay lip service to conspiracy theories and anti-Semitic diatribe.
And that’s sad, because when the current rulers are gone, someone extremely crazy will take their place.
What’s really sad, is how everyone pays lip service to those “al-Qaida” conspiracy theories and anti-Muslim diatribe, while extremely crazy people already rule over them.
January 10th, 2011 at 11:51 am
Don, ‘taqiyya’ as you see it is not part of the Quran and Sharia is a law that can be interpreted by Muslims scholars.
This post by Loonwatch explains the whole taqiyya thing:
http://spencerwatch.com/2010/08/15/silencing-spencer-taqiyya-and-kitman-are-part-of-judeo-christian-belief/
January 10th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
Is HalalPork IP banned too?
- One can only hope.
January 10th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
Don says “I’ve witness and experienced first hand how the muslims mistreat their minorities with their laws in south east asia(I’m south east asian) so naturally I am abit skeptical.”
Well here are some links for you in case you thought that Hindus were devoid of any extremist tendencies. Hindus killing their lower castes, Christians, Muslims, burning churches, razing down mosques, etc etc. Just google “Hindu Extremists” and you will find many many more.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5186703.ece
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22399950/
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1858756,00.html
So should we outlaw some or all parts of Hindu scriptures since many of their adherents display quite violent tendencies???
What do you say Don?
January 10th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
Don:
Taqiyya is an obscure doctrine from the medieval era that was developed by Shiites primarily because they were being persecuted by the majority Sunnis. In fact, Sunnis have criticized Shiites for the doctrine of Taqiyya and still do, to an extent. Taqiyya does not give one the carte blanche to lie about the precepts of Islam, rather, it simply means that you’re allowed to pretend you’re not Muslim (or not Shiite, if your a medieval Shiite living under a Sunni tyrant) in order to save your life. Similar concepts can also be found in Judaism and Christianity.
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/08/silencing-spencer-taqiyya-and-kitman-are-part-of-judeo-christian-belief/
Again, Taqiyya is so obscure that I never heard of it before some Islamophobe accused me of it.
January 10th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
Do you have any independent information or do we just believe that because one article said so.
Can you believe this guy? Jingoist Bob believes that Western civilization is destroyed because of a sleazy law being overturned in Oklahoma, yet he can’t fathom the thought of Muslims actually doing something good. He aslo has the gall to demand “independent information” after he has linked to hate sites several times (and has also made numerous factual errors on his own part, which is probably a symptom of visiting those hate sites).
Just so you know Bob, other reputable sources have reported on this story.
http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/egyptian-muslims-throng-in-thousands-to-protect-christians.html
January 10th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
Loon fail.
January 10th, 2011 at 6:49 pm
That’s your best bob? You really can’t argue against the fact that thousands of Muslims thronged out and put their lives in very real danger to protect Christians can you? So you just say ‘it must be false’ and have a ‘does not compute’ error. Pathetic and as was said, a great example of ‘loon fail’. Everyone from the BBC downwards has reported this. Even Fox news couldn’t spin the fact that Muslims are against this attack very well, but bless them, they tried their best (BTW, this piece is a good case study for Fox’s bias):
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/01/06/egypts-christians-hold-mournful-christmas-eve-masses/
And of course, you can’t celebrate, there aren’t dead Christians for you to dance over, pointing and shouting ‘told you so’ are there? A sad day for bob but a great day for humanity.
January 10th, 2011 at 10:54 pm
But really, Ian. You of all people should be the last to go at me considering our last exhange.
Yeah, just look at your
utterly retarded response to some of our points on the thread you linked to. There are quite a few lies in that comment, and I don’t consider calling Geller an “outspoken woman” an adequate excuse for genocide denial. Here’s one of my favorite Jingoist Bob quotes from that page.
I’ll read what I choose to read and come to my own conclusions.
January 11th, 2011 at 12:43 am
@AJ –
yeah all extremism should be denounced but the muslim ones seems the worse IMO. I have known some chinese and indian malaysians friends or even worse take a look at my chinese indonesian relatives for example. I don’t think i need to post any links here to make my point. It’s rather well known what kind of discrimination they went through.
What’s worse is that the malaysian and indonesian governments dared to complain about how the singapore government refuses to allow the malay muslims to serve in top level army and intelligence positions even though the malay singaporeans have suffered MUCH LESS discrimination and are more freely allowed to practice their religion here than their minorities in malaysia and indonesia.
There’s only ONE religious riot in Singapore’s history. JUST ONE. Singapore is surrounded by malay muslims of malaysia and indonesia just like Israel in this sense. Can you blame Singapore for this decision that they make regarding military and intelligence? It was the animosity that made me realise what Israel have to go through everyday.
Those falun gong chinese practitioners and indian hindu extremists have been openly condemned and criticised by both their communities.
I am just saying they need to do a check to probably check and confirm with all the imams what they believe about the Quran before they are allowed to preach. That’s all.
January 11th, 2011 at 3:23 am
@Don
“yeah all extremism should be denounced but the muslim ones seems the worse IMO”
Out of all of what you said, this is the key, you believe that Islamic “extremism” is worse than any other form of terrorism, and hence should be denounced the loudest. Sorry, but that is BS. The LRA are Chistian terroists, their actions in one country are hundreds (and that is not an exageration) of times worse than all terrorism carried out by Muslims throughout the world. So by that logic, Christian extremism is the worst and should be condemned the loudest, right?
No, Don, you are simply trying to mask your bigotry with an air of legitimacy, and that’s fine, i mean who would want to be associated with the diatribe of Spencer and Co. But deep down, you don’t believe that the problem with Muslim extremists isn’t the ignorance of a fringe group of Muslims, (what are there, maximum 100,000 so called Jihadis? That doesn’t even equate to 0.01% of the Muslim population); You don’t think it has anything to do with occupation of Arab/Muslim land throughout the middle east, as the 9/11 commission members stated; but you think it is solely down to the Quran, as you mentioned earlier. This highlights your bigotry, so don’t try to mask it as something it isn’t and then backtrack when you are called out on it.
January 11th, 2011 at 4:01 am
@Tarig – Yeah so this justifies those muslim extremists actions right? Their land is occupied by “unwanted” people so they must exterminate them right?
Haven’t they seen how MLK get goals accomplished? If they went the MLK route, you guys already have two state living side by side now.
No wonder the Israelis are not willing to put down their guard.
No wonder the Israeli Defense Force came down to Singapore to personally train and set the foundation for our soldiers 40 years ago.
I am trying very hard to not be prejudiced after seeing the events that unfold on my relatives but since if hoping that muslims do some self policing is islamophobic?
Ok lets say you are correct..So what do you propose Israel, Singapore, India and other non muslim countries/communities in conflict to do? Throw down their arms 1st and try to peace talks with them?
BTW who is robert spencer? why do you keep linking me to this guy? He is some famous islamophobe right?
January 11th, 2011 at 4:14 am
I want to make it clear that I am not trying to troll or anything like that because I am trying to spark alternative conversations to find out what has israel or other non muslim nation in conflict has done wrong? How do you intend to solve the conflict since you say that we are “unwanted” people in your lands?
January 11th, 2011 at 4:48 am
I’d be interested to know what you experiences were Don seeing as I live in Malaysia myself and have never come across it. Sure, I hear about it, but it’s always happening to someone else and quite honestly I think that people big up minor stuff and slap a ‘Muslim extremists’ label on it which is then lapped up by the usual suspects. The recent farce over the use of the word Allah, a complete non issue for most Muslim Malaysians is a prime example of this. It was blown up to huge proportions and used as ‘proof’ of how evil Muslims were, even though at the end of the day, nothing really happened and the perpetrators were stuck in jail. I was reading stories of how ‘hundreds’ of Churches had been burned down for crying out loud! I support your call for moderation, but at the same time I think you need to see that most people *are* moderate anyway.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:09 am
“I want to make it clear that I am not trying to troll or anything like that because I am trying to spark alternative conversations to find out what has israel or other non muslim nation in conflict has done wrong?”
I think it’s quite clear what Israel has done wrong. We condemn Muslim extremists who want to react to Israeli aggressions by firing rockets or suicide bombings, but the evil they do is far less than what Israel has done. Take a glance at the statistics, have more Palestinian civilians died or more Israeli civilians since this whole thing started? More Palestinian civilians. I understand Israel and Singapore have good relations but that doesn’t mean you have to find everything they do to be perfect. Turkey had good relations with Israel but that didn’t stop them from criticising Israel’s handling of the Gaza flotilla.
“How do you intend to solve the conflict since you say that we are “unwanted” people in your lands?”
No one here has said that. Look at this article, Muslims who genuinely don’t mind being martyred alongside Copts whom they call their “brothers” if another terrorist attack happens. Conflicts will only get solved when everyone understands the other person’s opinion. Israel will have to understand why Muslims worldwide didn’t appreciate them establishing their country on Muslim land and that the majority of them don’t support terrorism. Muslims will have to understand that not all Israelis are bad.
By the way, Non-Jews don’t have a great time in Israel either:
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/07/tel-aviv-rabbis-say-no-renting-to-non-jews-what-if-they-were-muslim/
January 11th, 2011 at 8:23 am
@Jack Cope –
The discrimination they face is not as serious as indonesia. This point I give to you but it still exists.
Just look at the amount of malaysian chinese and malaysian indians coming to singapore for work.
The chinese and indians have to send their kids overseas for education as they have no shot at entering the bumiputera universities in malaysia.
You tell me how will they view all the malay muslims? or am i wrong as this is more racial issue?
Side Note : The malay singaporeans assimilated well and are better off than the malaysian and indonesian muslims.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:27 am
@ Jbob
You consider human rights a major issue, like most people without an agenda, right? If you do, you’d applaud these Muzzies like everybody else should. And in all honesty, I’m sorry your banned, only HalalPork should be banned because we could never get to a few hundred comments with him
But seriously, only HPork should be banned because he doesn’t even attempt to bring up an argument.
January 11th, 2011 at 8:35 am
@Mosizzle –
Good point. The attitude towards non-jews and arab nations is due to them being discriminated against for the past few thousand years.
Also, If I did not remember wrongly(can’t find the link), I remember some oil rich arabian countries promising oil to israel to give up the settlement expansion. If I were netanyahu, I will take the offer and maintain military defensive stance like singapore rather than the offensive stance they are maintaining now.
January 11th, 2011 at 9:09 am
Actually Don, I think the bumiputra universities issue is a racial problem and not religious. I would reckon that Indian and Chinese Muslims wouldn’t be able to enter said universities as well.
January 11th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
Don, how do you feel about Chinese Muslims who were unable to build mosques according to Chinese architectural styles for years until fairly recently?
January 11th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
Forgot to add in Malaysia.
January 11th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
Cynic is correct Don, the whole bumiputra is a social policy, not religious. It was understandable, since you had an economy was, and still is, vastly unbalanced, with about 10% of the population, the Chinese Malaysians, owning over 70% of the economy, with 60% of the population, the bumiputra/Malays, owning less than 20% due to imbalances from the colonial era. That was of course the main reason for the riots when Malaysia was first declared independence, the perceived unfairness of the system by the Malays and I can quite understand the government trying to rectify the issue. Of course, now that the bumiputra laws have, according to many experts, archived what they set out to achieve which is 30ish% ownership by bumiputra, you can see it being wound down. I’m sure you know all this, I’m mostly saying it for others reading this. And again, to repeat Cynic, this is nothing to do with religion, it’s social.
I actually find in my experiences that the various races get on well, case in point that I share an apartment with both Malay, Chinese and Indian Malaysians plus you can’t say the government doesn’t try, heck even *I* as a foreigner know the words to most of the 1Malaysia songs
Indonesia I am also told is relatively fine as well, given that Indonesians are pretty mixed anyway. There is of course tension, but it’s far better than I expected, coming from the UK were tensions can be very high. I’ve also never heard of your claim about Chinese style Mosques, but I can kinda understand why the government would do that in order to promote better relations between Chinese and other Muslims by making sure there are not ‘Chinese Mosques’ like in the US where you would have ‘Black Church’ and a ‘White Church’, i.e. racially segregated, again I go to a Mosque where I see Malay, Chinese and Indian Muslims. Every Mosque I have ever seen here is what I’d call socially neutral, i.e. either in a modern or ‘Arab’ style. My take on it anyway, I’m sure Cynic has a far better explanation.
January 11th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
//Haven’t they seen how MLK get goals accomplished? If they went the MLK route, you guys already have two state living side by side now.//
So you mean sort of like Basem Abu Rahma and his entire family right? Do a quick google search, see what the “only democracy in the middle east” did to them!
//Ok lets say you are correct..So what do you propose Israel, Singapore, India and other non muslim countries/communities in conflict to do? Throw down their arms 1st and try to peace talks with them?//
I know nothing of what happens in singapore, so I won’t pretend that I do, but India and Israel are far more straight forward, leave the land that they are occupying. Israel was offered complete normalization of ties with all Arab and Muslim majority nations, including Iran, Syria, Lebanon, and even with Hamas, based on the Saudi peace plan which basically stated all they have to do is withdraw to 1967 boarders, you know the ones that are legal under international law, and provide compensation for those that were made refugees during the massacres they committed from 1947-49, and they rejected. If Israel genuinely wants peace, is this an offer they should be rejecting? And India should leave Kashmir, it might even calm down the hindu extremists they have over there!
//Yeah so this justifies those muslim extremists actions right? Their land is occupied by “unwanted” people so they must exterminate them right?//
Where did I write anything that even resembles this statement?
January 12th, 2011 at 1:28 am
Nah, you put it better than I ever could Jack.
January 12th, 2011 at 1:40 am
Thanks Cynic, I find myself having to explain it enough times to people, heck I could probably get citizenship by now
I never got that email you sent, can you resend? The email address is on my blog (linked on my name).
January 12th, 2011 at 1:51 am
@Tarig – Like I said many many times, There are so many arabian countries surrounding Israel. How can you expect them to let down their guard and not be preemptive. No point pointing out other extremists or accuse anyone as islamophobic(I consider myself Skeptical rather than islamophobic) to silence criticism for what islamic extremists do. Even a small rocket attack have to be taken seriously by them. The situation is just like a hornet’s nest.
Regarding Bassem Abu Rahma, I think it needs to be come something like a million man march to take effect. One small group or family is not enough.
@Dan, Cynic – Yeah it’s a race problem.
January 12th, 2011 at 2:07 am
Don, there is a fine line between defense which is acceptable and what is not, Israel jumps over that line a lot. Are you seriously arguing that it is balanced? How much damage have these extremists done? 13 people, 10 of them soldiers (and 4 of them killed by friendly fire), were killed during the latest what you seem to define as ‘defensive’ action by Israel. Compare that to 1,166 to 1,417 Palestinians, a heck of a lot of them children, even Israel says it only got 700 what it terms ‘terror operatives’. I do sympathize with Israel’s position and how Jew’s feel about being pushed around but it is no excuse to act like that. As has been said, Israel has been given the opportunity for peace, simply withdraw from what even the UN terms as illegally occupied land and fine, we can move. And if you think the Muslim side is extreme, you should see the Israeli side!
January 12th, 2011 at 3:53 am
//Like I said many many times, There are so many arabian countries surrounding Israel. How can you expect them to let down their guard and not be preemptive. No point pointing out other extremists or accuse anyone as islamophobic(I consider myself Skeptical rather than islamophobic) to silence criticism for what islamic extremists do. Even a small rocket attack have to be taken seriously by them. The situation is just like a hornet’s nest.
Regarding Bassem Abu Rahma, I think it needs to be come something like a million man march to take effect. One small group or family is not enough.//
There would be no need to be ‘preemptive’ as you put it, if Israel was interested in peace and agreed to the Saudi Peace plan, but they aren’t, they are interested in conquest. But either way, your words are an attempt to white wash any responsibility Israel may have towards the treatment of those it occupies, you know little things like the use of White phosphorous, depleted uranium, illegal annexation of land, illegal home evictions, illegal incarceration of minors to name but a few, am I right in assuming that?
As for the million man march statement, Basem is a face of a movement, just like MLK was, you asked for someone to stand up and act like him I showed you there is. You have now moved the goalposts, but either way he is the face of a movement that is being carried out in villages up and down the westbank in protest of the illegal annexation wall, so yes it is a movement, not just a family. And what does this movement get? The same thing MLK got, beatings, tear gas, illegal imprisonment, even murder, the only difference is we are being told that the world is more civilized now, wrong!
January 12th, 2011 at 4:02 am
////Haven’t they seen how MLK get goals accomplished? If they went the MLK route, you guys already have two state living side by side now.////
To follow up also, are you aware that the 2nd intifada started as a peaceful movement? The only reason it became violent is because the IDF fired over 1 million bullets in the first 3 days. Does that sound defensive to you?
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=67
January 12th, 2011 at 7:44 am
@Tarig, Jack Cope – As long as the rhetoric & zionist talks from arab nations won’t stop, The situation will continue on and on without Israel making any concessions. Israel has nothing to lose.
January 12th, 2011 at 11:30 am
@Tarig, Jack Cope – As long as the rhetoric & zionist talks from arab nations won’t stop, The situation will continue on and on without Israel making any concessions. Israel has nothing to lose.
Israel has always been the aggressor, and has always been the biggest obstacle to peace. Israel’s very existence is dependent on a perpetual state of conflict, and with out it, the basis for its existence falls apart. Mentioning the Arab nations is nothing more than a cheap ploy to excuse the inexcusable.
January 12th, 2011 at 7:51 pm
Don, do try and see it from the ‘Arab’ states view (who, might I add I think are just as responsible for the problem in Gaza in many ways). Yes, there is a lot of bad talk on their side but can you blame them? They have a hugely militarized nation next door who are backed up by the US and have shown that they are prepared to go to extraordinary measures in order to ‘defend’ themselves at the cost of others in surrounding states. Oh, and they have nukes with second strike capability (submarine based apparently) which they won’t admit to while simultaneously having a go at Iran. I can understand their concerns! As has been said, Israel was offered a peace plan if it relinquished the lands that it illegally occupies but they said no. There are one heck of a lot of extremists in Israel who want war, many of them in government and in fact the Knesset relies on the votes of extremist parties to pass legislation so what hope is there? Personally I’m sick of the whole mess as I am sure are most civilians in Israel and the surrounding states and want this over with. All that needs to happen is for Israel to be reasonable, follow the rules that everyone else is supposed to and we are good to go. Simple you’d think…
January 13th, 2011 at 1:42 am
Jack said everything I wanted to, except point out that you are deflecting, you haven’t addressed the substance of what we have said, and instead just changed the subject.
January 13th, 2011 at 3:16 am
@tarig, awesome – I understand the arabs are worried of israel or what the arabs are going through, All what i wanted to say is that you have to understand what israel have been going through for the past few decades to understand why they do what they do.
July 31st, 2011 at 1:33 am
Don, are you a dumbass idiot Evangelicalized Malaysian? Who the fuck you represent Malaysian? Are you some kind of World Police or what?
And since you don’t know about our politics, let me tell you one thing about our issue:
The Allah issue
- Blame on the dumbass Salafi Barisan Nasional government. And I got Muslim friends who are against Salafism scholars who preaches violence. Besides, too many Arab Christians and the Jews uses the word “Allah”, so I guess the hypocrite BN government who are not ‘expert’ on Arabic word doesn’t know that many Arab Christians and Jews also use the word “Allah”. And that my friend, it’s not Islam to blamed. Who’s to blame? Islamists.
The Singapore issue
- This is nothing to do with religion. Our conflict is based on race. Again, the stupid BN government wants to ‘protect Muslims’, but when it comes to Indian or Chinese Muslims, they failed to serve them.
In the Sejarah (History) text book, the racist bias author did not mention more about Cheng Ho the Chinese-Muslim admiral from China, why? Because he’s a Chinese!!!
Same thing happen to Singapore, because the UMNO government wants to divide and rule based on racial. So it was nothing to do with religion, rather because of race! Now shut the fuck up go back to Jihadwatch, the best site of degenerate people like you.
Oh and I got bad news for you, I have many Singaporean Chinese who are against investing weapons of Israel to Singapore, that’s the another reason why they are not supporting PAP. You are not so different from our BN government. And when it comes to our revolution, don’t you try to hijack our uprising. I warn you, really deadly serious.
By the way, I’m a Chinese Malaysian who follows a Buddhist heritage and speak and write in Chinese.
April 11th, 2012 at 6:08 pm
I have worked with and known several good hearted muslim people. I hope and pray for them and I hope and pray that they will be brave enough to stand and be heard against the radical extremist in their lands. I hope and pray that we too do not get blinded against the average everyday muslim that is NOT violent and trying to live just as we are. We need to talk about our different religions and beliefs…talk not fight. Let the truth do it’s own conversion.
April 11th, 2012 at 11:15 pm
It may come as a shock to this crowd but Robert Spencer et. al. do not believe that all Muslims are evil. They do believe that while there are peaceful Muslims, the Muslim religion itself is the inspiration for the acts of violence that occur as a matter of routine all throughout the Muslim world.
I would like to know how the story can be confirmed. I follow the Middle East pretty closely, I have not heard any thing about this.
It is almost a daily occurrence that some Church has been burned or attacked or Christians have been massacred. And always by Muslims.
April 11th, 2012 at 11:26 pm
Unfortunately, these are the types of stories I am accustom to seeing almost daily.
[Snipped: links to hate sites are not allowed. Ilisha]
May 13th, 2012 at 7:37 am
So sorry I am just seeing this for the first time. I was a nanny to a Muslim family for nine months. I still care for the children, occasionally.
I love my Muslim family: A.T, Sheba, Kinza and Aariz xxx000