Robert Spencer

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Pamela Geller

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Bat Ye'or

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Brigitte Gabriel

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Daniel Pipes

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Debbie Schlussel

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Walid Shoebat

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Joe Kaufman

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Wafa Sultan

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Geert Wilders

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The Nuclear Card

Muslim and Jewish Students Debate Islamophobia and anti-Semitism

Posted on 14 June 2012 by Emperor

Interfaith gathering, getting to know one other and discussing ways to combat hate:

Muslim and Jewish students debate Islamophobia and anti-Semitism

by Habeeb Ali (BikyaMasr)

Toronto, Canada – When I told people that I wanted to organise a speech competition for youth on anti-Semitism and Islamophobia, the most common reaction I received was, “That would be hard.” However in late April 2012, 16 students from Muslim and Jewish schools, as well as public schools, in Toronto came together at the North American Muslim Foundation to participate in the 10th occasion of this annual event.

Despite some initial discouragement, I felt the connections between anti-Semitism and Islamophobia were important. These two issues are often dealt with separately by Muslim and Jewish communities in Canada, but both groups have a great deal to offer each other as they work to overcome prejudice.

As such, my colleagues at the North American Muslim Foundation and I brought together a group of interested young people to address the question: do Jews and Muslims face the same challenges and do these challenges present opportunities for joint solutions?

Many of the participating students talked about personal experiences, such as their synagogues being vandalised with graffiti, or facing increased scrutiny at airports in the post-9/11 era.

Though the experiences were different, many felt that they were speaking with the same voice, only from different religious and cultural perspectives.

One young Muslim competitor described how she came to see criticism for wearing the hijab, or headscarf, in school as an act by one person and not an entire group. A Jewish student agreed, saying that when his synagogue was vandalised with graffiti it wasn’t a statement from the entire community, but a crime by one individual against a community.

A Jewish student reminded an audience of Jews, Christians and Muslims that working for harmony and standing up for religious freedom is every person’s duty.

Another Muslim student, whose experience of Judaism had previously consisted only of negative stereotypes, acknowledged that this speech competition changed her mind. As she reflected on the ways that both communities have struggled with stereotypes, she found common ground in the struggle to overcome them.

Read the rest…

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  • JT

    Don’t worry about InPeace. He’s been trolling this site as JihadBob for at least a year and is looking for a buddy to share his anti-Muslim fantasies with. He thought he found a friend in you, but is now shocked that you actually agree with the purpose of Loonwatch.

    Bob, why is it so shocking that another person refuses to buy into the anti-Muslim propaganda that comes from people like your hero, Robert Spencer?

  • Just Stopping By

    @Steve: “If I am occasionally fac[e]tious it is because I am often frustrated by it and the comments.”

    So, you went to a website and often found it frustrating that the articles and comments are not exactly to your liking? Oh, my.

    I recently had a discussion, mainly with Ilisha and a bit with Garibaldi, on some of my views of the site. The thing is, we were all straight-forward as opposed to facetious. In the end, they understood my point and I understood their counter-arguments. I am actually trying a one-off experiment with an acquaintance as a result, and I trust that Ilisha and Garibaldi will consider my views seriously even if they ultimately don’t wind up changing anything about the site or their contributions to it.

    So, how about you try an experiment and the next time you find an article or comment frustrating you don’t respond with a facetious one-liner but provide a sober reasonably detailed discussion of the point you find frustrating and ask if anyone can help explain the position that is vexing you?

  • Sir David : Man on a phone with a french spell check

    Steve
    Don’t worry “In peace ” aka “insane” is a troll from jihab watch who cannot understand that Muslims have lots of different ideas, views etc and thinks islamaphobia does happen . He is just trying to wind things up
    Sir David

  • Steve

    @Inpeace, I wasn’t aware I had been branded a racist. I have certainly never witten anything of a racist nature.

  • InPeace

    Steve, why do you think you’ve been branded a “racist” or whatever?

    Is it anything you’ve actually written or is it because you don’t march lockstep with the rest of the website?

    Do you really think you and this site are on the same page?

  • Steve

    factitious = facetious

    Auto-complete eh?

  • Steve

    @JSB, I want this site to work, I want it to counteract the loons. If I am occasionally factitious it is because I am often frustrated by it and the comments.

    As for the comment you mention, that was a directed comment, I want to understand and “you have to know arabic” doesn’t cut it for me.

  • Just Stopping By

    @Ilisha says, “I hadn’t really recognized how contradictory JT and I may seem at first glance.” Yes, perhaps at first glance. But it doesn’t take much to see that you are on the same page.

    “This may seem like trivia, but there are people, in my experience, who wonder why Muslims recite the Qur’an in Arabic even if it’s not their mother tongue.” Wait, you want me to believe that you encounter people who don’t understand why members of a certain religion like to read their holy book from right to left? Let me see if I can relate.

    @Steve: I hope you are sincere when you say that this site should counteract the claims of the people it labels loons. But, a question: Do you think comments like “Ok, I get that, it is impossible to be a muslim unless one is fluent in koranic arabic” move the dialogue toward or away from that goal?

    I do admire your ability to push ideas toward their apparent logical conclusion. But if you really want this site to accomplish its goal, why not use your analytic skills to help rather than engage in facetious comments that point out comments or ideas that are not as precise as you would like?

  • Steve

    @Ilisha, I know and I understand the purpose of this site, I am not blaming the site for anything, I think the writers do a very good and very valuable job a lot of the time.

    I just think you would be better advised to do what I thought the site was about, ie. counteracting the claims of the people you label loons. Everyday Spencer et al post links to articles which include their own interpretations of islamic law justifying the acts in the articles, counteract those, give different interpretations. That would make this site an excellent resource.

  • Ilisha

    @Steve

    The mission of Loonwatch is to combat anti-Muslim bigotry. We are a small group of unpaid volunteers up against a well-funded, coordinated network relentlessly promoting Islamophobia, especially in Europe and North America. To what extent should we also criticize regressive interpretations of Islam? That’s been a subject of debate here.

    We in fact do criticize such interpretations, sometimes expressly and very often, implicitly. Those who want us to engage in more of this seem to come from two camps. They’re either allies who (correctly, I think) view Muslims with regressive views as unwitting allies of the Islamophobes, or they are those who simply want to undermine and discredit us. For the second group, no matter how much we actually engage in criticism, they say it’s not enough. They can’t be appeased because they really aren’t interested in what we do or don’t do, but rather with maintaining their hateful views. I suppose a third group might be those who don’t have a clear understanding of our mission or what we’re up against.

    In the end, the Loonwatch administrator will decide what is published and how it aligns with our mission, and I personaly think he does an excellent job. To the extent I submit articles that include criticism, my primary motive is to generate discussion. Ultimately, every religion is translated into words and deeds by its followers. How can it be otherwise?

    So while everyone can contribute to a discussion about Islam and Muslims, defining what Islam is and how it will be practiced must ultimately be decided by Muslims, for Muslims. Providing a forum for that discussion is far more important to me than pleasing detractors. If criticizing regressive views and subjecting them to debate also helps in the struggle against bigotry, that’s icing on the cake, as far as I’m concerned.

    If people want to see more “criticism” of Muslims, whether it’s actually fair criticism or skewed anti-Muslim propaganda, there are plenty of other places to visit.

  • Steve

    I don’t have any ulterior motives, I like to keep an open mind. I am not going to condemn every perceived slight as islamophobia, i am not going to buy into the claim that islam is entirely peaceful and offers equal rights for everybody and all religions – because the evidence says otherwise. I am neither for nor against islam, if people want to be muslims they can be muslims.

    I do think some people on here should spend a little less time being upset about a planning application for a mosque in the US and a little more time concerning themselves with the complete lack of religious freedom in some countries run under the auspices of islam – saying “they don’t represent islam” doesn’t cut it because they do, they represent islam implemented on a national scale. Apparently there are 1.5 billion muslims, where are the protests about the regime in Saudi Arabia? Where are the protests about the disgusting blasphemy laws in Pakistan? Where are the protests about the complete lack of religious freedom in the Maldives or the racist/relgious policies in Malaysia?

  • Ilisha

    @JSB

    I hadn’t really recognized how contradictory JT and I may seem at first glance. JT wrote, “The Qur’an is in Arabic,” then I followed up with, “The Qur’an is only in Arabic,” and then both of us also talked about reading the Qur’an in English.

    I’m sure you know what we meant, as do most Loonwatchers, but to some who are less familer with the Qur’an, I can see where this would be confusing. Right now, I’m holding a Qur’an that has the Arabic text and on the facing pages, an English translation. On the English version of the book cover, the title reads, “The Meaning of the Holy Qur’an.” The addition of the “meaning of” is what makes it clear it’s considered an interpretation, rather than a literal translation.

    This may seem like trivia, but there are people, in my experience, who wonder why Muslims recite the Qur’an in Arabic even if it’s not their mother tongue. By not allowing any other version to be the actual Qur’an except the original Arabic–down to the last letter–the precise words and meaning are preserved, along with the beautiful poetry of the verses. Muslims everywhere in the world, despite whatever other differences there may be between them, have the same Qur’an.

    Yes, Steve is transparent and he’s kind of derailed a thread that was supposed to be about a positive interfaith story. But even so, when he does this here or on other threads, there’s a chance it will generate a good discussion and we’ll learn something from one another. That’s part of the mission here, and that interests me far more than Steve’s ulterior motives.

    I also think being patient and sincere in answering his questions only highlights the contrast between us, and for most people, I believe any evidence of his questionable motives reflects poorly on him. As someone else pointed out recently on another thread, the Qur’an says:

    “And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, ‘Peace!’” 25:63

  • JT

    Steve, you would be much better off if you spoke normally on this site. I could spot your sarcasm from a mile off. You are trying to imply that the Qur’an doesn’t say positive things about the Jews, and are also ridiculing those who believe otherwise.

    You believe that the Muslim student is picking up negative stereotypes of the Jews from the Qur’an. In support of that, you make the false assumption that every single Muslim (the majority of whom are not Arab) have intensively studied their holy book and analysed every verse. The proportion of Muslims who are practising and religious is only slightly higher than for other religions, and most Muslims have not read their holy book in a language they can understand and many do not regularly attend the mosque. So it’s wrong to automatically assume that ‘he’s Muslim so obviously he’s read the Qur’an and obviously he goes to the mosque’ and that’s the source of their anti-semitism. And also, the Muslim student is female. Your response will obviously be, so what? But you should know that most Muslim women don’t regularly attend the mosque as much as men do. So there are numerous things wrong with your logic there and it’s better if you stop trying to be so clever because you will end up looking even more stupid.

  • Sir David Illuminati membership number 16.69

    tut tut tut steve
    if you are going to be facetious at least do it with style , verve and irony. Asking straight questions will just lead to straight answers and make you look foolish . Such as expecting all muslims to believe the same thing , a common Islamaphobic error as you can see from reading the comments on this site.
    Us Brits have to maintain a high level of Irony and Facetiousness here on loon watch in the face of earnest americanism mostly ,just read Halal Porks conributions to world knowledge on this site and you will know the sort of contributions that are expected from loons .

    Sir David
    Vice Chair
    Leftwing mooslim Alliance West Anjou Branch
    France
    Winner of the Marine Le Pen award for multicultualism 2011

  • Just Stopping By

    @Steve: I just read your comment about “being facetious,” unfortunately only after submitting my prior comment. I think that that helps me simplify my prior comment to the following: “If you really want to learn, stop being facetious.”

  • Just Stopping By

    @Ilisha: “Steve … Please don’t miss the point.”

    Amen.

    @Steve: I’ll admit that you are playing a very clever game here, taking people’s statements perfectly literally and following them to their logical conclusions. But, what you are doing is really a game.

    Commenters are not writing elaborate statements that note every nuance. So, you find JT saying that an English-speaking Muslim may not have read or learned the proper interpretation of certain verses of the Qur’an because it is in Arabic and Ilisha saying that one can read translations of the Qur’an in English. Sure, on its face that could represent a contradiction if you take each statement as a literal universal truth about every Muslim who does not speak Arabic. But what they are really saying could apply to every religion and nationality: many Americans who speak English may not have read or understood the Constitution. Should we then find it impossible to believe that there are some educated Americans who claim to be patriotic but advocate ideas that are blatantly unconstitutional or say that they never heard of concepts like the right against self-incrimination (the Fifth Amendment)?

    In my view, the short answer is that if you are going to parse every comment as if it is a careful analysis with every caveat already noted, you certainly will find contradictions across commenters and even by the same commenter. I’m pretty sure that if you read all my comments literally I will appear to have contradicted myself more than once. But if you are truly trying, as you say, to learn, then, to paraphrase Ilisha, please don’t miss the broader points in your search for picayune exceptions.

  • Steve

    @Illisha, I was being facetious, I read the koran years ago. A bloke in London was handing out free copies and handed one to me as I walked past.

  • Ilisha

    @Steve

    You can read an interpretation of the Qur’an in English. Please don’t miss the point.

    I was trying to help you understand that the Qur’an itself is in Arabic, and that translations are not EXACT. Translations that include words like “Holy Spirit,” “Infidel,” and “Saint,” for example, are somewhat misleading because they aren’t exact equivalents to Arabic.

    That doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t read an interpretation. If you really want to compare interpretations, visit this site:

    http://quran.com/

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