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Open Thread Sunday: JihadWatch Zombie Eric Allen Bell Curious About the “Pros” and “Cons” of Nukin’ Mecca

By on August 26, 2012 in Loon People

"Can I haz cheeeezeburger?"

Every now and then an anti-Muslim Islamophobe wonders about the exigency of nuking Mecca and or Medina when he really means to want to destroy the sacred cities. To destroy Mecca and Medina has been an ardent desire of Islamophobes for centuries, harking back to at least the Crusades, if not earlier.

In a recent manifestation of such desire we have Jihadwatch zombie Eric Allen Bell (aka Eric Edborg) masking a call to nuke Mecca in a “question.” Who actually wonders about the “pros” and “cons” of “nuking Mecca” except someone who actually wants to do it?

Notice the lovely responses from those in Bell’s little echo chamber of hate. Bell didn’t repudiate any of these gung-ho nuke Mecca advocates. Most people responded by either saying such a move would not be practical or in fact coming to realize that Bell had gone “too far this time.” Many of these comments were deleted by Bell.

A significant chunk of comments actually looked something like the following however:

It seems clear to me that Bell has always had some sort of deep seated hatred and antipathy towards the “other.” One doesn’t wake up suddenly and ponder the merits of nuking the holy city of one of the oldest and largest religions in the world unless there is something deeply wrong with you.

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    • Garibaldi

      This “open thread” has degenerated.

    • Just Stopping By

      @Garibaldi: I understand that BA can be grating, but I think that the suggestion that he is bullying, and certainly to the degree that he might be banned, is a bit much.

      While I recognize that BA can be annoyingly persistent and likes to think that once he presents his/her view, that view should be treated as if it has been proven to be the correct one, I think that those flaws pale beside what else we see here. And by here, I mean that I believe that you have noted much more strident bullying in this very thread, snipped someone in another thread today, and I believe that I saw a comment apparently endorsing genocide posted and then deleted a few hours ago on yet another thread. Compared to that, saying that someone is misrepresenting facts seems quite mild.

      I found a poster who addressed me recently but who I thought was rude, ignorant, and biased. So, I ignored the person. That seemed to work quite well. I suggest that that is a much better response than arguing about bullying.

    • Garibaldi

      With the above said, I don’t hope I came off as too harsh or anything.

      I generally appreciate BA, he has given us valuable tips in the past, and though I disagree with some of his positions and the way he puts them forward, I do hope we can be agreeably disagreeable, though this hasn’t been the case always or at least recently it seems.

    • Garibaldi

      @JSB, I actually edited my comment before viewing yours, but I will point out that I never indicated that BA is the only one who has done this. All of us likely stand accused of such a thing at one point or another. Also as I wrote in the last comment I believe that none of us come from some completely objective view, but the difference is that some actually admit to this while others don’t.

      Lastly, Ilisha, from what I can read here doesn’t have any qualms with truly debating BA except that it seems to be a fruitless endeavor, mostly to do with nitpicking little details that are then described as “mischaracterizations” with other loaded language accompanying such claims. I can sympathize with that, she doesn’t want to waste her time.

  • Just Stopping By

    @Ilisha, BA, Garibaldi: Is this a private dispute, or can anyone join in?

Sheila Musaji: Pamela Geller & Robert Spencer Discover “fireworks jihad”

By on August 23, 2012 in Loon Blogs, Loon People

Pamela Geller & Robert Spencer discover “fireworks jihad”

by Sheila Musaji (The American Muslim)

Some individuals like Pamela Geller are so anxious to find anything at all that is negative about Islam or Muslims that they are willing to pass on any unsubstantiated rumor from anywhere as “proof” that Muslims are evil.  Geller’s professed “love” for Muslims is expressed as pathological hatred.

Geller posted an article Sharia in Colorado: Special accommodations for a special class, Muslims.  She said

Once again we see special rules for Muslims in accordance with the sharia and Islamic supremacism. Anywhere American law and Islamic law conflict, it is American law that has to give way. Check this out from Atlas reader Chris:

Very few are talking about it here in Denver Colorado. American citizens were banned from celebrating our national birthday the Fourth of July. Fireworks were and are still banned unless it was to celebrate the end of Ramadan. I have asked several police officers what the huge fireworks show was and they replied that it was the local Islamic center celebrating. I then asked if the statewide ban on fireworks was still in effect and they said yes. So logically I asked did they have a permit for such a large display. The answer was no and that the police were not to respond to calls about it.

Robert Spencer (the self proclaimed “acclaimed scholar of Islam”) posted the same article with the same dubious source with the longer title Sharia in action in Colorado: Muslims set off fireworks in defiance of ban, police told to ignore complaints and the introduction “A statewide ban on fireworks is not a statewide ban on fireworks when Muslims are setting them off. To enforce the ban would be “Islamophobic,” doncha know.”

Actually, no one is talking about it except Geller and the sites that picked up this non-story from her.  The only source for the story is some guy named Chris who posted a comment on her site.

If she had done just a little fact checking, she would have discovered first, that no one else other than her reader, Chris, had reported on this supposed story, and also that on July 9th Gov. John Hickenlooper had lifted the Colorado fire ban and more than 60 Colorado counties moved to moderate to low fire danger.

Geller, Spencer, and the rest of the Islamophobia echo chamber are stark raving mad!  They see Jihad everywhere and in almost all cases it doesn’t exist except in their fevered Islamophobic brains.  Here are just a few ridiculous claims about nonsensical Muslim plots:

An Eid Celebration for Muslim Special Needs Kids was described as a “stealth jihad”.   A children’s page in a newspaper focusing on Eid was described as a toxic propaganda plot.  Joel Hinrichs (a Christian) had a beard and had walked through the parking lot of a campus mosque thus proving that his crime was an example of sudden jihad syndrome.   The awful April 2007 shooting at Virginia Tech by a Korean student was also called Islamic jihad because Cho’s father had once worked in Saudi Arabia (before he was married and before Cho was born).  A Muslim doctor had a heart attack and died at the wheel of his car which then crashed into a shopping mall and this was described as “vehicular jihad”.   A Muslim cab driver objected to what he considered pornographic ads on the roof of his cab, and that became astealth-jihad plot to impose Sharia on America.  Any Muslim who has sued an employer for violation of their rights under the EEOC is engaged in employment jihad, or litigation jihad.  Muslim environmentalists are said to be actually engaged in “civilizational jihad”.  A cartoon series “The 99” aimed at young Muslims was described as “cultural jihad”.  The victims of the terrorist attack of 9/11 included Muslims, they were accused of dying as martyrs in an act of jihad.

The Islamophobes have uncovered countless examples of false and “shocking” Muslim jihad plots.  They have uncovered:  bumper sticker jihad,  Thanksgiving turkey jihad, an incrediblepaisley scarf jihad, marriage to important men jihad, spit jihad, fashion jihad, spelling bee jihad, rape jihad,  defacing dollar bills jihad,   population jihad, creeping Sharia jihad,  mosque building jihad, terror baby jihad, “creeping Sharia” jihad,  pedophilia jihad,  bus driver prayer jihad, forehead bruise jihad, postage stamp jihad, soup jihad,  banning alcohol jihad,fake hate crimes jihad, piggy bank jihad,  tv reality series jihad, handshake jihad, prom jihad,interfaith jihad, Arabic language jihad,  public school jihad, religious accommodation jihad,Crescent moon jihad, Christmas tree tax jihad, oath of office jihad, immigration jihad,community fundraiser jihad.  Christina Abraham (a Muslim) has a name that is not recognizably Muslim enough and so we have stealth name jihad.

There is a reason that many, even outside of the Muslim community see such demonization of Muslims as Islamophobic.  There is a reason that the ADL has stated that Brigitte Gabriel’s Act for America, Pamela Geller & Robert Spencer’s Stop the Islamization of America (SIOA), David Yerushalmi’s Society of Americans for National Existence (SANE)  are “groups that promote an extreme anti-Muslim agenda”.  There is a reason that The Southern Poverty Law Center has designated SIOA as a hate group, and that they are featured in the SPLC reports Jihad Against Islam and The Anti-Muslim Inner Circle.  There is a reason that Geller and Spencer are featured prominently in the Center for American Progress “Fear Inc.” report on the Islamophobia network in America.  There is a reason that Geller is featured in the People for the American Way Right Wing Playbook on Anti-Muslim Extremism.  There is a reason that Geller is featured in the NYCLU reportReligious Freedom Under Attack:  The Rise of Anti-Mosque Activities in New York State.  There is a reason that Geller is featured in the Political Research Associates report Manufacturing the Muslim menace: Private firms, public servants, and the threat to rights and security.  There is a reason that the SIOA’s trademark patent was denied by the U.S. government due to its anti-Muslim nature.  There is a reason that they are featured (with extensive backgrounder articles) in our TAM Who’s Who of the Anti-Muslim/Anti-Arab/Islamophobia Industry.  There is a reason that these individuals are featured in just about every legitimate report on Islamophobia and anti-Muslim hatred.

These people consistently promote the what everyone “knows” lies about Islam and Muslims.   They generalize specific incidents to reflect on all Muslims or all of Islam.   When they are caught in the act of making up or distorting claims they engage in devious methods to attempt to conceal the evidence.

The claim that “truth tellers” are being accused of Islamophobia for no reason other than their legitimate concerns about real issues and that in fact there is not even such a thing as Islamophobia is nonsense.

The reason that this is so obvious to so many is that rational people can tell the difference between legitimate concerns and bigoted stereotypes.   The Islamophobia of these folks is very real, and it isalso strikingly similar to a previous generations’ anti-Semitism.

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    • zangi

      What is the source of this information? Any news clip from any reputable source? Or is is just from Chris of Atlas Shrug? I live in Colorado and to the best of my knowledge none had any fireworks planned. So looks like readers of loony websites are also loony. They live in make believe world!

    • @rookie

      You wrote, ——————————————————————————————- Breivik?

      He will spend next 20 yrs in prison – writing books.

      He will become millionaire.

      After 20 years he will get out of prison and ground a political party…

      Someone continue…

      ——————————————————————————————-

      If you’re imagining he’s going to go the Hitler route, that’s only the worst case scenario. Besides its not very likely. Even the overwhelming majority of other Islamophobes tried desperately to distance themselves from him, after he went on his Killing spree. A Brevik candidacy and a political party run by him, would be fiercely opposed, especially by the families of his victims.

      Also, if Hitler had spent twenty one years behind bars after the Beer Hall Putsch, instead of just a little over a year after he was convicted. The conditions that lead to ascension of the Nazi party and his rise to power, might have changed dramatically. Not mention that it would have been much harder for him to use it as a propaganda tool, and people might even have forgotten all about him.

      Beer Hall Putsch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch

    • Solid Snake

      @rookie

      He will tour Europe and the US being paid by right wingers all over the world. At that point the jig will be up, their facade of being against murder and extremism will drop and they will openly embrace violence. Breivek will prove that they can and have beaten the system. His speech will be protected and soon his party will grow.

      As his message and party gains momentum, more moderate people will turn to their local right wing parties.

      Events will heat up in the Middle East as the foreign policy between conservative Right wingers and liberal left wingers begins to blur.

      Pretty soon we will be hearing Anti-Muslim rhetoric from both sides of the isle louder than ever.

      Islamophobes will commit crimes against Muslims only to have Islamophobic lawyers represent them pro bono in front of Islamophobic judges.

      The precedents have been set, first the stabbing and killing of Marwa Sherbini in the court room in front of judges and police officers. and now Breiveks case.

      And then it takes one misguided, lonely, scared, and desperate Muslim to attempt to kill Breivek while he is on one of his tours. as we said one of their goals is to troll for assassins. Whether this assassin succeeds or fails he will have sent the world spiraling downwards into what possibly could be another global conflict.

      From there it only gets worse for Muslims and their allies…..I mean i hope it doesn’t happen but the way it looks I wont be shocked if he is deemed safe to return to society in 20 years.

    • rookie

      Breivik?

      He will spend next 20 yrs in prison – writing books.

      He will become millionaire.

      After 20 years he will get out of prison and ground a political party…

      Someone continue…

    • Jai

      “Pamela Geller & Robert Spencer discover “fireworks jihad”

      As I mentioned on another thread a few days ago, I wonder how long it’ll take for Geller & Spencer to notice that a disproportionate number of India’s biggest movie stars are Muslims. I expect Geller & Spencer would call it “Bollywood Jihad”…..

    • Breviek will most likely spend the rest of his life in prison. Yes, he was only sentenced to 21 years which is the maximum sentence in Norway. Keep in mind that in Norway one can be kept in prison beyond their sentence if they are still seen as a threat to society, something which is highly likely for Breviek.

      Yes, being declared “criminally sane” should put all the crazy Loons on noticed that they too can and most likely will be declared sane by a court of law if they too commit hate-crimes, domestic acts of terrorism or any kind of terrorism.

      Being declared sane is good news and an opportunity to discuss how to deal safely with Loons and not just dismiss them as “crazy.”

    • Zakariya Ali Sher

      Breivik was found ‘sane,’ and sentenced to a mere 21 years because apparently, the Norwegian definitions of “humane” include not punishing criminals for acts like mass murder. Apparently, he has it quite nice too. Three cells, including a spa and a study, and he’s not in general population because the authorities fear for his life. A pity too because I was kind of hoping that he’d get shanked. Fortunately, he wasn’t allowed to rant about his “issues” that In Fidel wants to raise, but unfortunately, he apparently plans on publishing further manifestos from prison. Unless, like I said before, some brave Norwegian convict has the cobbles to shank him before he subjects the world to future indignities.

    • dreamdayz01

      In southern part of India, the “Love Jihad” danger is a favorite topic among right wing Nationalist (even after being dismissed by investigating authorities as hoax).

    • There is a difference between being “criminally insane” and a paronoid schizophrenic. Even schizophrenics, with their self-righteous claims of “truth telling” and illusions of grandness possessed with special gifts- they have a special calling to share the truth while proclaiming all others who disagree as “ignorant”- can be and often are criminally sane because they planned and new what they were doing.

      Breviek is criminally sane, not insane as In Fidel confidently predicted in his comment above. I guess some so-called truth tellers don’t always know the truth, do they Eric Allen Bell, In Fidel, GW, Steve and No Imaginary Friends Here?

    • truth

      Pam geller is a mad woman.I wonder if there is anything she truely loves in her life

    • Crow

      EPIC FAIL TROLL!! Brevik was found sane because the only issues he raised were important to venomous bigots and white supremists, the one issue that should have been raised and wasnt, was should brevik be shot or hung? As for geller, fat spencer, gabriel etc and their fans they are by nature moraless cowards

    • Inn Fidel

      Breveik will be found insane. Finding him sane would force Norway and Europe to face the issues he raises.

    • Sarah Brown

      This is very useful because Spencer does cover some true stories, and indeed some stories which *ought* to be covered – i.e. I assume he pounced on the one about the little girl accused of blasphemy. The fireworks story is a good example of one which is, not just ridiculously exaggerated/tendentiously worded, but simply untrue.

  • mindy1

    Yah know, I think if I took them to my shrink he would diagnose them with delusions of grandeur-thinking you are important when you are not

The Muslim Brotherhood: Crucifixion or Just Plain Fiction?

By on August 20, 2012 in Loon Media, Loon Sites

Crucifixion

Lurid tales of the Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood allegedly “crucifying” President Mohammed Morsi’s political opponents has gone viral all across the looniverse, but skepticism seems to have surfaced in an unlikely place.

The American Thinker is not generally friendly to Muslims, and articles from notorious loons like Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer routinely “grace” its pages, as evidenced by their respective archives here and here. Yet, despite the ridiculous assertion that rabid anti-Muslim bigot and serial fabricator Raymond Ibraham is “usually reliable,” the American Thinker indulged in a bit of fact checking and concluded the tale of crucifixion is, “at best, an exaggeration, and at worst, a hoax.”

At the time of this writing, Google searching the phrase, “Muslim Brotherhood crucifixion” in quotes yields 341,000 results. Despite this bout of  “lone wolf” fact checking by the American Thinker, this fabricated tale will no doubt be recycled endlessly, masquerading as “proof” of alleged Muslim depravity for months, or even years, to come.

Is the Muslim Brotherhood crucifying opponents of Morsi?

by Rick Moran, American Thinker

This story is hard to believe but comes to us from multiple sources, including the usually reliable Ray Ibrahim. The problem is that the original report is from the Arab media. And while Ray, no doubt, faithfully translated the stories, there is no reliable source that could confirm the substance of the report.

However, it certainly is not beyond imagining that Salafists allied with the Muslim Brotherhood could have carried out such a barbaric act.

Ibrahim reports:

Last week in Egypt, when Muslim Brotherhood supporters terrorized the secular media, several Arabic websites-including Arab News, Al Khabar News, Dostor Watany, and Egypt Now-reported that people were being “crucified.” The relevant excerpt follows in translation:

A Sky News Arabic correspondent in Cairo confirmed that protestors belonging to the Muslim Brotherhood crucified those opposing Egyptian President Muhammad Morsi naked on trees in front of the presidential palace while abusing others. Likewise, Muslim Brotherhood supporters locked the doors of the media production facilities of 6-October [a major media region in Cairo], where they proceeded to attack several popular journalists.

That there were attacks and violence-both in front of Egypt’s presidential palace and at major media facilities, is well-documented. An August 9 report by El Balad, a widely read Egyptian website, gives the details:

Last Wednesday, August 8, “thousands of the Muslim Brotherhood’s supporters” attacked 6-October’s media facilities, beat Khaled Salah-chief editor of the privately-owned and secular Youm 7 newspaper-prevented Yusif al-Hassani, an On TV broadcaster, from entering the building, and generally “terrorized the employees.”

El Balad adds that the supporters of Tawfik Okasha, another vocal critic of President Morsi-the one who widely disseminated the graphic video of a Muslim apostate being slaughtered to cries of “Allahu Akbar”-gathered around the presidential palace, only to be surrounded by Brotherhood supporters, who “attacked them with sticks, knives, and Molotov cocktails, crucifying some of them on trees, leading to the deaths of two and the wounding of dozens.”

“Crucified in front of the presidential palace?” One would imagine that something so barbaric done so openly would catch the attention of at least some western news outlets. Or even al-Jazeera, who would almost certainly report such an atrocity. They can’t all want to cover up for the Brotherhood. A story like this is just too juicy to pass up in the name of political correctness or ideology.

A check of the Sky News website shows no story about crucifixions.. In fact, there is no time or date of the crucifixions reported by Ray at all.

These are all red flags that makes me think that this widely disseminated story is, at best, an exaggeration, and at worst, a hoax…

Continue Reading…

Related Story: Raymond Ibrahim and the Islamophobic Cash Cow

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    • Brad Haggard

      @Lawrence: Read the first line of the story. There may be a translation issue, I just don’t know, though.

    • Lawrence of America

      @Brad Haggar “Opposition (groups) march on the presidential palace.”

    • Lawrence of America

      This is the kind of story you get from a Taxi driver in alexandria..or any arab city for that matter.

    • @Ilisha

      I’m aware that stuff like this has happened before. I guess I just felt the way I did because its so contrary to what we should expect.

    • Abbey

      Anything anti-islam catches on fire whether it’s fact or fiction, fiction on this occasion.

    • Ali

      I am thinking this may be a tactic of some Arabic news sites to publish fake stories depicting Muslims/Islam in bad light so that the Islamophobes take the bait and run these stories endlessly only to be fooled later. This eventually will result in loss of credibility as their readers continue to feel like they are being made fools.

    • Christian-friend

      A Pakistani Christian girl has been accused of blasphemy for accident burning a Quran.

    • Garibaldi

      Raymond Ibrahim, the known forger and liar…crazy, how the Right will pick up on any story to enhance their victimhood complex as well as demonize Muslims and Islam.

  • mindy1

    If they doubt it, I wonder who believes it

New York: Predictably, The So-Called “Islamorealism” Ads are Based in Bigotry and Lies

By on August 16, 2012 in Feature, Loon People

The above ads are appearing at Metro-North stations in New York. A continuation of Islamophobic activists Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller‘s AFDI/SIOA racist and anti-Muslim/Islam advertisement campaign.

In light of recent hate attacks, 8 over a period of 11 days, and another possible attack yesterday, the attempted firebombing of a Muslim family’s home in Panama City, Florida, can we not consider such advertisements to be an incitement to violence?

**************

If these ads are not a form of “false advertisement,” at the very least they are a form of false and inaccurate information that is being disseminated to the general public, making the masses more ignorant.

Factually, the number of “*19,250 Islamic attacks (*and counting)” is a purposeful fabrication. To label such attacks as “Islamic” is not only offensive but a dangerous and ignorant essentialization of Islam and the very broad and variegated phenomenon of terrorism in Muslim majority countries and the West. It tells us nothing about the so-called “terrorist” attacks themselves; what criteria was used to judge them “terrorist” or “Islamic”; nor about who or what created the “terrorism.” It purposefully reinforces the Islamophobic myths that Islam, a religion of over 1.5 billion people worldwide, that is over 1400 years old is a unified, monolithic and totalitarian force that is inherently obligated to wreak random and terrible violence. Also notice the intentional and shameless exploitation of 9/11 in the ad, “…Since 9/11/01.”

What is strangely not mentioned in the advertisements is that this so-called “Islamic Terrorism ticker” that gives us the oddly precise round number of 19,250 is taken from the anti-Muslim website “The Religion of Peace” (TROP). In a previous article I pointed out that the methodology by which TROP arrived at these inflated numbers is very deceptive.

Even a cursory glance at TROP’s list of so-called “Islamic terrorist attacks” reveals it to be nothing more than a deeply biased, propagandistic spin-job that conflates:  real terrorist attacks, (semi)religious/culturally motivated crimes, attacks on military personnel and attacks by secular groups with no ideological basis in Islam — all in theaters of occupation, civil war and separatist conflict.

I cited a sampling of the attacks they claimed were so-called “Islamic terrorism” from a period of just one month that on further inspection proved not to be related to either “terrorism” or “Islam.” Many of the attacks listed by TROP relate to nationalist insurgencies, such as the conflict involving Baluchi nationalists seeking independence from Pakistan. Some of the attacks listed by TROP are in fact crimes committed by Muslims or people with Muslim sounding names that have nothing to do with Islam or terrorism, such as honor killings, the killing of local policemen, petty assault, etc.

In the end I wonder if there are any actionable grounds to contest these advertisements? Even though they are not selling a product they are promoting hate propaganda based on fabricated and faulty information, and hence are doing an immense disservice to the general population.

by James Arkin (NYDailyNews)

The Metro-North is once again the center of a controversy over potentially offensive billboards.

Greenburgh Town Supervisor Paul Feiner is urging Metro-North to put up ads of its own in response to “inflammatory” postings in the Hartsdale station.

The ad in question, sponsored by the American Freedom Defense Initiative, lists the number of deadly Islamic attacks since 9/11″[This needs to be challenged and not just stated as fact–Ed.] and says “It’s not Islamophobia, It’s Islamorealism.”

Feiner says the ad can’t be removed, but is offensive. He wants Metro-North to warn passengers that the ads could be upsetting and don’t represent Metro-North’s views or that of the community.

“There are many Muslims residing in Greenburgh and in our villages,” he said. “They should not be discriminated against. the posters encourage hatred, discrimination and do not help the efforts to fight hate crimes.”

After lots of feedback — positive and negative — from residents concerning the ads, Feiner added that he will recommend the Metro-North donate profits from the ad to education campaigns against discrimination.

“I feel it’s not a violation of free speech for Metro North to put up a competing sign and it’s also not a violation of free speech if they donate the profits to an anti-defamation league or an organization that objects to hate crimes,” he said. “I feel that it should be clear that the people of Metro North and the town do not support this message.”

AFDI executive director Pamela Geller said the ad is not hate speech, but merely a statement of fact.

“There is nothing hateful, mean-spirited, or offensive about opposing jihad terror,” she said in an email. “Are the facts offensive? It is, as the ad says, Islamorealistic. Islamic supremacist imams around the world foment violence, promote hatred, teach children to hate, and exhort Muslims to gain a place in Paradise by murdering infidels.”

The MTA lost a recent federal court case to Geller, who sued after the MTA banned an advertisement, saying it violated standards prohibiting language that demeans an individual or group.

The MTA declined further comment and said its position has not changed on the issue.

Feiner is not the first politician to complain about offensive advertisements on the railroad: The MTA faced a controversy in July over potentially offensive billboards concerning the Israel-Palestine conflict.

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    • Chameleon_X

      What’s the matter, wimp, are you too scared to accept my challenge? Since you seem to believe that 93% of the incidents on TROP are “as advertised” in terms of being “Islamic terrorism”, then why do you find it so difficult to support the far lesser claim of demonstrating that just ONE out of ten incidents meets this claimed criterion? It is very simple, really: because there is no factual basis behind this naked claim of TROP whatsoever.

      So what you are basically admitting here by running away from such a trivial challenge without conceding your complete ignorance is that you are a screaming bigot masquerading as someone interested in truth. If you ever come back to this site again, I will not hesitate to remind you and everyone else of your spineless bigotry.

    • 1DrM

      Sounds good, brother. You could also upload it(obscuring the private details) to a file sharing website. Nothing like raw data.

    • Chameleon_X

      You are just chasing your tail, and on top of that, you don’t even realize when you are being ridiculed – how funny.

      TROP is basically making the claim that “Islamdunnit” with respect to crimes committed by alleged Muslims. There is no data backing up this claim, or even the lesser claim that religion was the primary motive, or even the still lesser claim that the perpetrators were Muslim in most cases. Instead, just a vomit list of crimes committed in specific war zones and other Muslim-majority regions is posted with the label of “Islamic terrorism” slapped on all of them.

      When someone is making such bald claims, the onus is on the person making the claims to prove them. The onus cannot be on others to disprove claims that have no evidence behind them to even analyze, contrary to your idiotic assertion to the contrary. Is this rudimentary data requirement sinking in to your thick skull yet? If not, then let me explain the obvious still further.

      The willful ignorance on your part is why I ridiculed you by making the parallel counterclaim that 145,000 “Christian terrorist” murders were done in the Americas in 2012. I am asserting (in ridicule) that the motive is Christianity in 100% of the cases in the same way that TROP asserts that the motive was Islam for similar crimes committed by alleged Muslims. This massive number of murders by Christians (or at least 75% of them, as you justifiably qualify) is a valid statistic, which you can find on Wikipedia and elsewhere.

      Now, my contention – again, in ridicule of you – is that I am right and you are wrong until you can show me the proof that the vast majority of the 145,000 cases were not done with the motive of Christianity (i.e., “in the name of” Christianity). You may prove a few thousand to not be in support of my claim, but hey, that would still leave one hell of a lot of Christian terrorism, now wouldn’t it?

      Let me know when you are starting to feel stupid. I am quite happy to continue embarrassing you until then, at least until I get bored of your clown show. What is so shocking is that you continue to see relevance in data that is 1) extremely biased, as you already acknowledge, and 2) that completely fails to back up the overarching claim of TROP that “Islamdunnit”. The only claim that the TROP site can possibly support is the very trite conclusion that there is a lot of crime all over the world, especially in politically unstable, war-torn regions lacking a justice enforcement infrastructure, from which the vast majority of TROP’s data is derived. Yawn … as if everyone did not already know that obvious fact already.

    • Nick Lynch

      This article states that the figures are a ‘purposeful fabrication’. If one has been supplied no data then how does one know they are fabricated?

    • 1DrM

      If you still have your email exchange with that neo-Nazi, do post it here.

    • Chameleon_X

      “TROP uses only legitimate sources from third parties – usually international news agencies” (per your previous post).

      Oh, yes, those same legitimate sources showed 145,000 murders (i.e., “Christian terrorist attacks”) in 2012 alone for the Americas, which would be greater than 15 times higher than the 2 year TROP number of “Muslim terrorist attacks” worldwide, which itself is bogus. And that 145k excludes the 1.5 million Iraqis murdered by U.S. Christians, along with the millions of others slaughtered elsewhere in U.S.-occupied and invaded territories.

      Are you that much of a moron that you buy into this idiotic propaganda? As Ilisha implied, any idiot with time to waste and Zionist propaganda money to burn can make a very long list of all the crimes done by a certain group like Muslims and then slap the “Islamic Terrorism” label on all those crimes. The entire premise of the TROP site is that it relies on an endless repetition of the same association fallacy, which – as yet another propaganda pawn just proved – is extremely persuasive to idiots with small minds.

      This Glen guy is running a hate site, plain and simple, and he is a proven liar. If you can’t see that, you need some serious help. I debated this dolt in a private email exchange, and I completely destroyed his juvenile “Islamdunnit” arguments, which is the implied conclusion of all his association fallacies. I proved his web site information unequivocally wrong on multiple points, but he refused to make any changes, contrary to his stated promise to do so. He is not interested in truth whatsoever. He is only interested in propaganda. And you are just the latest sucker to fall for it. Congratulations on earning your graduate diploma in idiocy.

    • Nick Lynch

      Ilisha, many thanks for your response as always, but I believe you’re twisting my words. I have never said that I don’t see anything wrong with TROP. In fact I actually agree with most of what you just said. I don’t like the biased sites which TROP links to, it is conducive to ill-feeling towards Islam which could lead to hate, potentially leading to violence which I abhor.

      If Polpot had said that 2+2=4 I’d have agreed with him, it doesn’t mean that I’d agree with his actions and views, he was an atrocity.

      Please please see the difference between me defending its views and me defending the accuracy of its data – that is the reason I asked you to read the link.

      I’m kind of glad you said you’re not going to spend much more time on this, I agree we’re not really going anywhere fast.

    • Nick Lynch

      >> ‘First, I’ve already explained to before that when it’s written, it’s libel, not slander.

      Touché! I’ll concede that point.

      But for the rest, I hate repeating myself. Please see this – http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Articles/Loonwatch-List.htm.htm

      As for the individual events, you can probably find the sources yourself to really prove them wrong if you use a search engine.

    • Nick Lynch

      >> ‘What’s right about it?’

      It’s accuracy, which is somewhere between 93 and 99.5%, high enough to be considered ‘right’. I’ve been through this already.

      >> ‘TROP says every kind of attack, including a crime murder, is a terrorist attack’

      Please could you provide evidence of this! (Loonwatch could not to do so when they carefully examined the reports last year).

      Now I really am beginning to go around in circles – Loonwatch admitted the violence was real, and claimed that ONLY 7% WAS EITHER NOT TERRORISM OR NOT ISLAMIC.

      You can express any opinion you want about the hate-site, please do, but to suggest it deliberately fabricates its results is plain slander.

    • CriticalDragon1177

      Couldn’t have said it better myself

    • Nick Lynch

      Hello Ilisha, thank you for your reply.

      Before I go any further perhaps I should set some things straight: I do not endorse TROP, I never have, and I certainly don’t endorse the external links it publishes, many of which direct to heavily biased websites. Neither am I a Christian – I frequently visit Christian-biased websites to debate all manner of things, including violence committed in its name.

      What I value above all is truth. I’m not stupid enough to neglect that when confronted by something so obviously as biased as TROP, that I shouldn’t exercise caution in interpreting their statistics, but I am yet to find any evidence at all that any of their statistics are fabricated. They can provide credible sources for each event, together with evidence the terrorist attacks are committed specifically in the name of Islam.

      It’s all fair and well saying that they’re biased and anti-muslim so they must be wrong – indeed Loonwatch thought this, but in reality they really couldn’t find much wrong at all.

      TROP’s ulterior motives in publishing the results is a whole different debate altogether, largely irrelevant to my argument, which is purely based around the accuracy of their data.

      If you believe I’m guilty of bigotry and duplicity after reading this, then that is your prerogative. I really couldn’t care less what I’m thought of so I have no reason to pretend to be anything I’m not.

    • Nick Lynch

      There were mass protests against the illegal war in Iraq, and most people, certainly in my country, were against it even though it removed a tyrranical dictator. It’s terrible about the dead Iraqis although I would say that 1.5 million deaths as a direct result of the war is a substantial overestimate. I read elsewhere that there have been 87% fewer violent deaths in Iraq since the war than when Hussein was dictator, although I suspect this is an overestimate too.

      As for this article, the figure is absolutely NOT a ‘purposeful fabrication’. TROP lists all of the terrorist acts in question, and can provide all the sources upon request. Loonwatch themselves identified only 7% of the reports as being incorrect, later debunked by TROP here: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Articles/Loonwatch-List.htm.htm It’s based not on bigotry nor lies, but a factual representation on the atrocities committed in the name of Islam on a daily basis. Saying that other religions are bad too does NOT change this.

  • Guess

    Senior Carlos, I think it is time for you to start go read, ponder and reflect upon all the answers and links provided to your challenge, instead of replying passé idiocies. Maybe you could see something there

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