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“Ex-muslims” That Used To Hate And Retained Their Hatred

Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Many “ex-Muslims” hate Islam. One persistent narrative common in the celebrity ex-Muslim sphere is constructed as follows: once radical “Islamists” they were filled with hate, today as “ex Muslims” they claim to inform non-Muslims and the west that all Muslims are just as filled with hate and extremism as they were.
Today Mona Walter claims that “all Muslims” are as filled with hate as she once was and to support this she claims empirical evidence that Muslims worldwide supported attacks such as 9/11. Despite the fact that only 7 percent of the Muslims worldwide believed that the attacks against USA 2001 were justified, and only a fragment of those cheered when the twin towers collapsed.

  • The overwhelming majority of Muslims – 93 percent – condemned the Sep 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington, and most said the biggest obstacle to better relations with the West was the latter’s lack of respect for Islam.

Mona Walter, claims that all Muslims are like she supposedly was. But she was so extreme that most Muslims would have rebuked or condemned her. She belonged to the 7%, more probably the 1-2% or the most extreme radical “Islamists.”

Hirsi Ali

Another such famous ex-Muslim, that has retained her extremist views of Islam, is Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

In 2014 she gave a speech at Yale, Great Britain.  She explained that she had a teacher in Kenya had radical ideas about Islam that affected her very much. She became indoctrinated with his ideas about Jihad, hate against Christianity, western clothes, and that it was a good “to destroy the Jews” and “hang gays”. Bear in mind Hirsi Ali has a track record of lying as well.

He preached like all the others, incessantly about hell. … Jihad – we were to wage Jihad for the sake of Islam. Martyrdom, the best thing to ever happen to us was to die while fighting for Allah. We were to strive for the establishment of Sharia law in our society and beyond … be suspicious of Christians if they refused to convert to Islam … and aspire to destroy the Jews, all Jews, not only the ones in Israel. The preacher teacher would rant against gays, they were to be hanged, and women were to know their place … their place was at home (and they were to) sacrifice everything, even life and the lives of their children for the sake of Allah. … We were supposed to cover ourselves from head to toe when running errands outside the home.

This process of indoctrination that I describe, that affected me, I considered myself once a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, it’s this the process of indoctrination that I have seen from up close and personal that makes my experience relevant. It’s this process of indoctrination that is overlooked. We focus on the Jihad, the violence, but we ignore the Dahoa, we ignore the years and years and years of preaching.

If she is to be believed there is no doubt she had a weird childhood and youth.

In Kenya, she was beaten so severely by her Qur’an teacher that he fractured her skull. At Qur’an school, Hirsi Ali remembers a classmate who was bullied mercilessly for being a girl with an intact clitoris. … Hirsi Ali learned from her mother that Jews were her darkest enemy. In songs, children’s textbooks, and newspaper articles, Jews were routinely called pigs, donkeys, rats, and cockroaches. “Our religious tutors and the preachers in our mosques set aside extra time to pray for the destruction of Jews,” Hirsi Ali writes.

These claims are unverified but if true it is understandable that anyone in similar circumstances would flee such an environment of hate. What is not understandable is her continued hatred of Muslims. She still believes that all Muslims are as oppressive as those few that “affected” her in her youth.

There is no doubt that there is a lot of mutual hatred between Jews and Muslims in the Middle East and the surrounding parts of the world. PEW polls and reports that were published some years ago tell us that only 9% of Israeli Jews have a positive to Muslims. In the nations bordering to Israel only 1 to 6% of the Muslims have positive views of Jews. In Palestine 1%. The negativity ratings are high. Above 90% view Jews in a very unfavourable way in large parts of the Middle East.

Prejudices and hatred is not the same as wanting to murder innocent Jews and vice versa. I have seen no polls about Muslim attitudes to killing Jews  because they are Jews but would imagine that very few share that idea; in Europe and the USA hardly none.

The choice

This phenomena is one that is not limited to “exmuslims”. There are a number of “ex Jews” too that are gaining fame in parts of the world and that believe that all Jews are evil. One such is Israel Shamir, that is one of the most famous antisemites in Russia today. His worldview is similar to Hirsi Ali’s, and because of that he claims that all Jews are like he once was.

As a Muslim you face the same choice as a Jew or a Christian: to “love your neighbour” or hate him or her. To let the things that happen in the Middle East affect your heart and mind so you hate, or to love, despite power politics and wrongdoings of a corrupt elite.

As an “ex-Muslim”, or “Ex Jew” or “ex Christian” you face the same choice. Either you describe the religion you once belonged to in the worst possible way, or admit that not all are insane and radical. As an ex-Muslim that once was filled with hate, you face the choice to describe all Muslims as being as extreme as you once were, or to be more honest and show that most would not have agreed with the hate you once bore in your heart.

Unfortunately, too many “ex Muslims” claim that the view of Islam they once bore is the one all Muslims share: thus claiming that all of Islam and all Muslims are evil.

Edited 5/9 – Garibaldi

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  • Friend of Bosnia

    Well, look, I’m an ex-Christian and I’m not militant and fanatical. I only strive to be just. I do not try to impose my values on others. But I will never allow others to impose on me values thai I see as false.
    Then there are people out and about who are like mad dogs. Worse than mad dogs, actually, because a mad dog isn’t mad of its own choice and can’t be blamed for being mad, but human beings have the choice to be evil or not.
    I’m generally against the death penalty because when you cut off someone’s head you can’t stick it back on. Yet there are people who are so cruel, callous, mean and inhuman that the world would be better off without them and they must be taken out of circulation because they are a danger to others.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    Bah, you are just a lazy thinker, as all of them. I’ve never said thast who apostasizes from Islam must be killed. But who betrays his own people in times of war, yes. If he aposztasizes just to make the point of having joined the enemy, that doesn’t make any difference to me. I fact, as far as I know, who returns to Islam must be forgiven all he did.
    But I don’t have to tolerate everything. Apostasy in my own family would be utterly unacceptable, and even if I didn’t shoot the one who dared do it, I’d break off all contact and disown them. But there is no need, nobody will do such a thing. Not practising or being totally secularized, that’s one thing, but reneging is something else. The likelihood is next to nil, so it’s a completely academic thing, they know they would be shunned. And that too is OK, because as I said, we don’t have to tolerate everything. So kindly leave our “superstitions” to us.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    And you are just a rude and arrogant, smug and self-righteous bastard, a schoolyard bully. Nothing more. For that reason I can not accept what you say.
    “issuing orders” you say. Thast’s just a provocation. I’m just asking you to leave me aloner but instead you go on insulting and infuriating me. You need to be taught a lesson in humility. If someone sat across the table from me and started ridiculing and insulting me in a way half as bad as you do, the least thing any normal human being (except if he was a total wimp) would have to do would be to slap his face. Such disrespectful manners are unacceptable.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    Blah blah blah. Most Muslims have other worries than hating “Kuffar”. Like making a living and looking after their families.
    ah but what is it good to try and talk some reason into evil and stupid individuals whose brains are completely addled and rotten from visceral, beastly rage and blind, idiotic hate. They are the typical schoolyard bully – brutal, cowardly, sadist and stupid as dog poo. I have only one advice for you, feller … keep out of my way.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    You may have logic but not truth. You are patronizing, and condescending towards me. You think you can issue orders to me and then you forbid me the same, pretend not to care. You are as evil a hypocrite as they come. You should better step down from the high moral horse.
    Your mocking and condescending attitude would meke anybody who gets told things half as bad to his face want to give you the thrashing of a lifetime. Do you treat your acquaintances likewise, or are they all such self-righteous, sanctimonious athiests fanatics? Then why don’t you go talk to them instead of provoking and infuriating me all the time with your self-righteous, patronizing, condescending talk (and yes, I’,m repeating myself on purpose.)
    Know this, I would never get to my knees in front of you, even if you aimed a gun at my head.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    Wouldn’t you be furious if your people had been shortchanged the way the Bosniaks , the Rohingya and the Palestinians have?
    Sure there are some very decent fellows among the Serb people. But those who planned and executed the genocidal anti-Bosniak extermination campaigns of WW II and the 1990s, and all those who support it in any which ever way, are not among them, and deserve total condemnation. It’s their voices I get to read most on forums like this one, and only once or twice in 25 years I have heard any message of Serbs expressing regret or distancing themselves.
    So I might be forgiven if I see them as a mostly horrible, bigoted, pig-headed, narrow-minded genocidal people. That’s not my idea, that’s the way they come across. There are exceptions, of course, but they don’t count, not really, their political and popular influence is nil.
    As for Emir Kusturica, who originates from a Bosniak family, he proclaimed being “Serb” and propagandistically supported Slobodan Milosevic during the war, and today he supports Milorad Dodik and bad-mouths his own people. That he converted to Orthodox Christianity from Islam was just to make the point that he’s “Serb,” not that he suddenly believes in Christian values. After all he was a Communist before. That conversion to “Serbdom” is what I find objectionable and unforgivable in him, and in any who did likewise. Actually most Bosniaks are descended from people who were Catholic, not Orthodox, and hence, not Serbs. Not that he ever was a practising Muslim, many Bosniaks are not, I’m not concerned with that. Let people do as they please, they will see what they get for it in the end.
    And just so you know, I don’t believe in imposing my values to other people, but I absolutely resent someone else trying to impose his values on me. That’s at the very least disrespectful. You may construe that as you like, but I had to hear way too often, “Leave it already!”
    Like it or not, religion and nationality are inextricably intertwined among the people in Bosnia-Herzegovina. It’s Orthodox = Serb, Catholic = Croat and Muslim = Bosniak, and it does not matter if people are devout believers or complete atheists. People there are organized in family clans and if you belong to, say, a Catholic clan, then you are a “Bosnian Croat” or just a Croat, and it does not matter whether you go to Mass every day or just on Christmas, or not at all. In the former Yugoslavia religion equals nationality and nationality equals religion, whether one is religious or not. Thus, a Serb can only be Orthodox. In fact, all people in Bosnia more or less share the same language and culture, and that’s why they used to get along quite well with each other. But then the Serbs committed Srebrenica and Omarska, and the Croats Ahmici, to create eternal enmity between the peoples. Well, if that’s the way they want it, how could one not consider them implacable enemies? Then, if the Bosniak people want to survive they must impose themselves, like it or not. It’s either that or be erased from the world. Serbs and Croats have Serbia and Croatia, but the Bosniaks have only Bosnia. What should they do in Turkey or Saudi Arabia? Then they might as well be sent to Madagascar, right? Just as it did not help many Geman Jews under Nazism to have converted to Christianity or become atheists, their being secular did not help the secular Bosnian Muslims in face of their murderers. They were killed just for their forenames, and that’s the most unforgivable thing there is. Whoever or whatever I can construe as even the slightest notion of support to such genocidal policies can only get my utter condemnation and contempt. Such hateful people deserve the very worst in the world.
    Unfortunately, we live in such times that had Milosevic, Karadzic and Mladic started their genocidal anti-Muslim campaign not in 1992 but today, they would have gotten the West’s commendation and even assistance, instead of a trial as war criminals. And then I should not feel bitter.
    People should never be judged for their forenames, the color of their skin, their faith or lack of it, or their nationality, but only for their actions. Unfortunately, in the real world the mighty do exactly that, collectively blame people and judge them for their religion or race, and kill them. With clubs and knives (Serbs, Rakhine) and poison gas (Assad) and drones (the Americans) and saturation bombing (the Russians). And there is nothing, absolutely nothing I can do about it (sending some white salve does not help, really) and on top of that I must support jeer and snide remarks. So then I should not feel bitter.

    It’s just as well that the number of people who resign from Islam is actually rather insignificant. Not that I consider Daesh to be “Islam”, after all they are mostly Saddam Hussein’s former henchmen. But I will never forgive Emir Kusturica his apostasy to “Serbdom”. You may like it or not. I don’t care.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    You have not bothered to read my previous comments but instead attacked me with your preconceived notions. And why should you care for renegade Muslims? Because they are useful to your side.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    Also, I don’t believe him.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    Thanks for sharing. Wow, what an evil person. And all for no apparent reason (although, some people, the better you undersstand them, the more you hate them). Am I glad that I don’t have anybody like that in my family. Should it come to renewed hostilities I’d know whom I’d turn in first.

  • Friend of Bosnia

    But you mean to say that hate crimes committed by Muslims against non-Muslims somehow mitigate or exonerate hate crimes committed against Muslims.
    You mean I must smile when somebody bvad-mouths the thgings I believe in.
    Emir Kusturica betrayed his people in times of war by joining ranks with the enemies of the Bosniak people. That he became a Christian is just the icing on the cake. Treason in face of the enemy in times of war is a capital offense in the West too. He may be a great film director, but a swine character. And a bad example.
    You will not convince me. So stop it already. I may not possess the absolute truth. But neither do you.

  • Alistair John

    “So you say you will dare attack me. I strongly advise you not to try.”

    What are you going to do? Call me rude names on the internet?

    “You dare to insult me. Be glad that we don’t meet in person.”

    That is a physical threat presumably. Go cool off and stop ranting like an idiot.

    “Do you think I’d allow someone to say to my face things half as bad as yours? What kind of man would I be if I did that?”

    One in control of their emotions and open to reason. Sadly that isn’t you.

    “And now GET THE HELL OUT OF MY LIFE! I haven’t invited you to discuss with me, so just SHUT YER TRAP! But don’t you dare give me lessons!”

    I’m not in your life and I don’t need an invitation to post a comment. This is a public website and you are not immune from comment or criticism. If you don’t like what I say you can just ignore me.

    “Distingush between Islam and Muslims? What sort of nonsense is that?”

    Not nonsense at all. Islam is a religion and Muslims are its followers. The two are not the same. You can hate an ideology without hating its followers unless they do things which are hateful.

    “Emir Kusturica apostasized in the bargain, and that’s a bad example in times of war. That is unforgivable.”

    His faith, or lack of it, is a personal matter and not a betrayal of anyone whatever else he may or may not have done.

    “Furthermore I simply reject any statement or attitude that can lead to genocide like that of Srebrenica or the rest of BiH.”

    To not believe in Islam doesn’t lead directly to genocide.

    “Who does that can never be a friend of mine. And the words of Islamophobes all the word over are exactly the ones that the Genocidal Greater serbo fascist anti-Bosniak crusaders uttered. They are quite similar to what Nazis say about Jews.”

    Islamophobia is a nonsense word. It literally means an irrational fear of Islam. As I said before to dislike an ideology is not the same as disliking its followers. All ideologies are criticised and indeed should be. Islam claims to be the last word of god and a pattern book of morality. Any such grandiose claim should be most carefully investigated and criticised where it falls short.

    “Hate crimes against Muslims have been committed because of anti-Muslim hate speech.”

    Indeed they have. And hate crimes against religious and sexual minorities have been committed by Muslims because of hate speech. Bigotry and violence are not the sole preseve of any one race, class, sex, religion or nationality.

    “Those who committed said hate crimes, those who incited them with hate speech to commit said hate crimes, those who defend and justify the crimes committed against Bosniaks in 1941-45 and 1992-95, and who want to do more of that, deserve the very worst in the world.”

    Anyone who has committed an appalling crime deserves punishment commensurate with that crime. Leaving your religion is not a crime.

    “Yes, I want to return violence with violence because your suggestion that I turn the other cheek is nothing but hypocrisy to me. Sanctimonious hypocrisy at that.”

    I don’t remember preaching turning the other cheek. I don’t condone violence, unless for genuine self-defense, but I’m not a Christian so don’t preach Christian morality.

    “Since I’m not dealing with well-meaning Aunt Nellies but with vampires and mad dogs, I will say candidly that I’d like to give them their own medicine, and not too little of it, with my own hands.”

    You’ve lost me there with your Nellies, demented dogs and the undead. My only concern is that you appeared to be advocating punishment for apostates. That is an appalling idea. There must be freedom in religion or lack of religion at all times and in all circumstances.

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