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What If They Were Muslim?: 300 Ultra-Orthodox Clash With Police Over “Gender Segregation Sign”

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300 Ultra Orthodox Clash with Police Over Sign

Ultra-Orthodox, Israel Police clash in Beit Shemesh; officer wounded

(Haaretz)

A police officer was wounded as clashes erupted between ultra-Orthodox Jews and Israel police on Monday in two separate neighborhoods in Beit Shemesh.
Two residents were also arrested in the clashes.

Approximately 300 ultra-Orthodox Jews began chasing police officers, hurled rocks at them, and burned trashcans after police were called to remove a sign on a main street that orders the separation of men and women in the neighborhood. The sign has been removed and re-instated several times over the past two days.

Confrontations also occurred in another of the city’s neighborhood after a Channel 10 news crew attempted to film a news piece in the neighborhood. The crew was surrounded by ultra-Orthodox residents who began harassing the crew, who immediately called for police reinforcement.

Officers arrived on the scene, and clashed with residents who laid on the ground in order to protect those which the police sought to apprehend for questioning.

On Sunday, a Channel 2 news team was attacked and beaten by 200 ultra-Orthodox men at the same location on the street where the sign that was removed had been hanging.

After the assault on the Channel 2 news team earlier Sunday, one resident living nearby said that the sign in question has existed for six years already. He added that it does not order women not pass in the street, but to abstain from gathering on the sidewalk.

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  • http://www.muslimamerica.net/mp/stranger.htm Shaykh al-Hajj Dawud Ahmad a-Amriki

    Just Stopping By corrects: For those who don’t know some basic Hebrew, Mount Gerushim would mean “Mount of the Exiled.” The Samaritans worship at Mount Gerizim, or ar-garizim in Samaritan Hebrew: “Samaritan” at Wikipedia

    Thank you. “A straightforward etymology for Gerizim would give the meaning of mountain cut in two” (Wikipedia), which accords with “mountain” as a symbol of God’s Promises, a well as the Samaritan doctrine that the rebel High Priest broke the Promise of Israel (at the hand of Moses) in two.

    The variant spelling may have originated from Kabbalists who were expelled from Spain, such as Cordovero. “Although Cordovero and his students seem to have been immersed in practicing a variety of mystical techniques and were known as the recipients of various revelations, the content of their revelations was not presented as part of their written teachings. Cordovero’s Sefer ha-Gerushim, Vital’s Sefer ha-Hezyonot, and R. Eleazar Azikri’s mystical diary, which include interesting documentation of their mystical lives, are strikingly different from their “classical” works.” (from Moseh Idel – Kabbalah New Perspectives). “Mount of the Exiled” certainly accords with the post-Exilic Judean view of the Samaritans. I probably saw “Gerushim” when I was looking for an English translation (preferably Arabic-English side-by-side, not yet found), I’ve been using the variant spelling since at least Christmas of 2010.

    “Samaritans refer to themselves as Bene Yisrael (“Children of Israel”) which is a term used by all Jewish denominations as a name for the Jewish people as a whole. They however do not refer to themselves as Yehudim (Judeans), the standard Hebrew name for Jews, considering the latter to denote only mainstream Jews.” (Wikipedia) Interestingly, the Qur’an refers to the “Bani Isra’il” (“Bene Yisrael”) and to the “Yahood” (“Yehudim”), although I have not seen any explicit correlation with this identical distinction of the Samaritans.

  • Believing Atheist

    @Leaveit2Beaver,I mean Bob,

    You wrote: Really? I thought Benny Morris was of the opinion that most Arabs had never seen an Israeli soldier during the war.

    Bob, Benny Morris is a sick human being much like you (and I will explain why later). Not only did Benny Morris say the Israelis ethnically cleansed the Arabs, he said that they did not do enough ethnic cleansing of the Arabs.
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/01/16/genocide-hides-behind-expulsion/

    Now to why you are a sick human being. You wrote: Anyways, what do these “massacres” of non-citizens have to do with the Egyptian government and civilians colluding to kill religious minorities in their own nation?

    You create a false dichotomy wherein it is permissible for Israel to massacre the Palestinians because they are non-citizens but it is atrocious for Egypt to massacre its civilians because they are citizens of that nation. So in you mind being a citizen means being human and hence all human rights need to be applied to citizens of a nation. However, being a non-citizen means being subhuman and hence, human rights do not fully apply to such people.

    A rational, consistent and ethical person would say what Egypt has done to its citizens is wrong and a grave violation of human rights but so is what Israel does and did to the Palestinians and other Arabs.

    As for Israel, I wouldn’t have brought it up had you not initiated this discussion by saying: Yeah, let me know when the Israeli army and ordinary citizens join forces to massacre peaceful Israeli citizens

    So in your sadistic mind it would be unethical for Israel to massacre its citizens, but as your latest comment shows it would be okay to massacre people living under Israeli control as long as those people are non-citizens. Wow!

    Now let me educate you a little more about Egypt Bob. Who controls Egypt Bob? Is it not the military sometimes under the disguise of a puppet democracy? (In fact they fully controlled it when Copts were killed in Egypt and when protestors were attacked in Egypt even after the fall of Mubarak). And who supplies the Egyptian military with money, weapons and other funds? I want you to think about it and if you can’t find the answer after introspection, I will help you out, all you have to do is click below:
    http://www.salon.com/2011/12/08/u_s_arming_egyptian_military_crackdown/

  • Atheist Arab – عربي ملحد

    @Leaveit2Bob

    You are so funny. My family has lived in refugee camps for fifteen years. AND THEY WILL NEVER FORGET, OR FORGIVE!

  • Just Stopping By

    Shaykh al-Hajj Dawud Ahmad a-Amriki: Your alternative history and interpretations are always interesting because they give us something to consider that differs from recorded history, but “Mount Gerushim” gave me the best laugh of the day. Thanks, seriously! (For those who don’t know some basic Hebrew, Mount Gerushim would mean “Mount of the Exiled.” The Samaritans worship at Mount Gerizim, or ar-garizim in Samaritan Hebrew: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Gerizim.)

  • Leaveit2Bob

    Benny Morris

    Really? I thought Benny Morris was of the opinion that most Arabs had never seen an Israeli soldier during the war.

    Anyways, what do these “massacres” of non-citizens have to do with the Egyptian government and civilians colluding to kill religious minorities in their own nation?

  • http://www.muslimamerica.net/mp/stranger.htm Shaykh al-Hajj Dawud Ahmad a-Amriki

    Sir David notes: Samaritans also face discrimination still in Israel.

    The “Samaritans” are the descendants of those Children of Israel who crossed the River Jordan with Joshua, who did not join the rebellion of a High Priest of Aaron and did not emigrate away from the mountain God had appointed for them, Mount Gerushim, when the rebels seceded and moved south toward what would become Jerusalem.

    Then later, when Samaria ~ undefended by Judah and Levi ~ was overrun and occupied, Judah and Levi were able to disdain the Jews of Samaria as of “mixed blood.” The “pure blood of Jacob” continues to define social caste in Israel today. It’s the prototypical origin of all “master race” political ideologies, and the Samaritans are regarded as “not real Jews” because (1) they didn’t join the rebellion, (2) they have “polluted blood,” and (3) they regard the (“subhuman”) goyim as “neighbors.”

  • Believing Atheist

    @Leaveit2Bob,

    The Israeli army massacres innocent Palestinians all the time. In fact the nation of Israel was created by the ethnic cleansing of Arabs as reported by the New Historians of Israel such as Pappe and Benny Morris (although I think Morris is writes out of sympathy for Israel and hence absolves some of the crimes committed against the Arabs).

    Just read Finkelstein or Noam Chomsky’s the Fateful Triangle and you will get all your answers regarding the atrocities committed by Israel against the Palestinians.

  • Sir David ( Illuminati membership number 5:32) Warning Contains Irony

    SAD Ahmad
    But who is my neighbour ?
    Samaritans also face descrimination still in Isreal

  • HGG

    I can’t help but laugh when people start whining about media coverage. If Muslims, Christians, antisemites, islamophobes and others all complain about Media Bias against them, I wonder who that bias is supposed to support.

  • http://www.muslimamerica.net/mp/stranger.htm Shaykh al-Hajj Dawud Ahmad a-Amriki

    What a surprise ~ the media coverage isn’t quite accurate …

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U2M6vsMy48&feature=player_embedded

    … it’s not “their own neighborhood.”

  • Atheist Arab – عربي ملحد

    I mean the views that Israel Shamir is condemning. I should have made that clearer.

  • Atheist Arab – عربي ملحد

    @Yitzchak Goodman

    By having chosen means of resistance that would counter criminal mentalities such as this: http://www.israelshamir.net/shamirReaders/english/Alba-Rico–How-beautiful-it-is-to-kill.php

    Even the terrorists of Taliban would not celebrate the death of others in such a voluptuous and elaborate manner!

    As an atheist I believe any religion can be misinterpreted to justify violence. I am not blaming religion. But while the world’s super powers have stationed their armies in Afghanistan, they have totally forgotten about Zionistan.

    The Palestinians were gravely mistaken when they targeted civilians. However, their violence is incomparable to the wholesale ethnic cleansing and terrorism perpetrated by Zionistan.

  • Anticipated Serendipity

    I honestly don’t think the Israelis would care if ultra-conservative Palestinians in the Occupied Territories were segregating men and women on the streets in places like Gaza or parts of the West Bank that are under PA control. It’d be bad for the Palestinians but would have no effect on the Israelis which is why they wouldn’t bother, unless of course there were Jewish settlers involved.

    This was Jews in a Jewish country and I’m sure the reaction to Muslims in a Muslim country would be similar; however there’d definitely be outrage and more media coverage if it were Muslims or Jews in a Western country imposing what they see as their religious laws in the streets.

  • http://www.muslimamerica.net/mp/stranger.htm Shaykh al-Hajj Dawud Ahmad a-Amriki

    Nur Alia writes: In addition to segregation of women in public, being a burden to their society by being accommodated from mixing with other people (such as closure of streets on their Sabbot), and their religious laws that do not allow commerce on their worship days, they don’t pay taxes, they don’t send their children to public Israeli schools, they don’t serve in the military, and are allowed to live in separate neighborhoods.

    How are they a “burden” on their society? They pay tithes to their religious institutions, and those tithes support the public services that they use within their communities. They have their own schools. They live in their own neighborhoods because they don’t want to live the way that secularized Jewish people in Israel are living.

    By what stretch of the imagination do you consider that they do not have a right ~ from God ~ to live according to their understanding of His Law for them? Do you not have a right to live according to your own sense of “right”?

    “Ultra-orthodox” Jews are not the only people who see merit in keeping pubescent and adolescent boys and girls separated except within their families, or separate men from women (and vice versa) in social gatherings. Visit any backyard neighborhood barbeque in America, where parents gather for a friendly afternoon, and you will see the women gather in groups separately from the men who gather in their separate groups. It is only in the sexually-charged atmospheres of public schools, college and fraternity parties, and bars and lounges (typically called “meat markets” by their habitués) that you find random intermingling of the sexes. Some people choose to restrain humanity’s most powerful instinctual drive and to avoid, or at least minimize, situations that stimulate it without restraint.

    I may not intrude upon the privacy of women without invitation, not even my wife’s without her permission. But at the same time, I may not deny any woman the right to be heard by me, every woman has a claim to my protection. That’s my understanding of what God requires of me as a man generally responsible for women, as men are.

    Perhaps were you to have a bit more experience with boys and with men who do not live up to their responsibilities regarding women, which historically have been overabundant, you would appreciate your right to not have to deal with men at all and not complain about being “segregated.”

  • http://judeopundit.blogspot.com Yitzchak Goodman

    The fact that it is getting any press in the western media is actually surprising to me.

    Not to me. There has been a great deal of coverage lately about segregated busses, for instance.

  • Leaveit2Bob

    ^ Yeah, let me know when the Israeli army and ordinary citizens join forces to massacre peaceful Israeli citizens protesting the destruction of their mosque.

    I think you’ve got the wrong country. And Denial is a river in Egypt.

  • Crow

    What if they were Muslim? Easy question!!! If they were Muslim they would be firing tear gas canisters at peoples faces, they would also be firing live ammo. There’s no surprises with this evil zionist regime, there were no deaths because the rioters were the right religion in this case.

  • Nur Alia

    Yitzchak Goldman…

    The fact that it is getting any press in the western media is actually surprising to me.

    I think that is what we need to be happy about. Someone, anyone can stand up and at least give a fair accounting of Israel in the media.

  • http://judeopundit.blogspot.com Yitzchak Goodman

    If those extremists were Muslims in a European country, the whole world would rage about how Muslims are “occupying” the West

    I’m not sure it would even get more media coverage. This story did not just appear in the Israeli media. There is an AFP story. Reuters had a story yesterday entitled “Girl’s plight deepens Israel debate on zealot Jews.”

    That’s why Palestinians are justified in taking the matter to their own hands!

    By doing what?

  • Farlowe

    Why would the world be afraid of the Zionists?

  • Leaveit2Bob

    So your argument is that anyone highlighting this issue would be “Judeophobes”?

    Apparently, that must be the logical conclusion to your point, otherwise I can’t imagine why you would whine when anyone highlights Muslim *misogyny.

    *I’m sure I’ll be told that the blogs which post stories on Muslim bigotry must provide equal airing to Jewish religious intolerance. I’ll be sure to keep that under my hat the next time I read from far Leftwingnuts about their obsession with Israel. But, what about religious apartheid in the Muslim world?

  • mindy1

    I meant the Orthodox, not the people posting the article

  • mindy1

    With all that’s going on in the world, why get angry over stupid stuff like this??

  • Nur Alia

    In hard times we tend to look at people who arent carrying thier weight in a society, or shose we think are not…as well has blatant bigotry and hate.

    The Ultra Orthodox Jews in Israel have alot of power in the Israel government…but do very little to contribute to the daily lives of Israelis.

    In addition to segregation of women in public, being a burden to thier society by being accomidated from mixing with other people,(such as closure of streets on thier Sabbot) and thier religious laws that do not allow commerce on thier worship days, they dont pay taxes, they dont send thier children to public Israeli schools, they dont serve in the military, and are allows to live seperate, in seperate neighbouthoods.

    I think that alot of the tension of the regular Israeli citizen is coming to a boil, seeing that these people are not living by democratic law, being protected and kept safe for free, and not looking at education as a means for the progress of Israeli society to move forward.

    I dont think the regular Israeli citizen wants to see his nation turn into a militaristic theocracy.

  • Atheist Arab – عربي ملحد

    If that’s how much they hate Jewish women, just imagine how much they would hate Muslim women!

    (not to deny that some Muslims are misogynistic, but just to emphasize how much we Palestinians suffer at the hands of extreme right-wing Zionists)

    If those extremists were Muslims in a European country, the whole world would rage about how Muslims are “occupying” the West. But when such extremists are REAL OCCUPIERS of somebody else’s land, the world is silent because it is afraid of the Zionists.

    Stark double standards! That’s why Palestinians are justified in taking the matter to their own hands! When the world is unfair, you are the master of your own destiny; because the UN–to use Norman Finkelstein’s word–is a “shmata”!

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