Top Menu

Navigation

Sheila Musaji: Robert Spencer Uses 4th of July to Spread Islamophobia

By on July 5, 2012 in Loon Blogs

Robert Spencer is lost

Spencer‘s always on the prowl to demean Muslims and spread Islamophobia (h/t: Critical Dragon):

Robert Spencer uses 4th of July to spread Islamophobia

by Sheila Musaji (The American Muslim)

Robert Spencer cannot let any opportunity go by to find a way to make a negative statement about Islam and Muslims.  Today, he used the occasion of the celebration of OUR nation’s Independence Day, the 4th of July to find a way to target American Muslims rather than to simply express his patriotism.

In his article, he lists four freedoms that “we” must defend.  In his commentary on what “we” must defend against, he uses only examples that he thinks represent Muslim attitudes at variance with the Constitution, and most of the examples he gives are from other countries, and from ancient texts.  According to the worldview Spencer is promoting, Muslims are anti-Constitution, anti-American, and untrustworthy and disloyal citizens.  It is clear that the “we” he refers to does not include Muslims.  He doesn’t mention any other individuals or groups who might pose a threat to our Constitution.  He also doesn’t mention any positive contributions of Muslims toward defending the Constitution and our freedoms.

Spencer only gives three references to American Muslims, and those in his first point.  Omar Ahmed, the individual accused of making one of the statements denies that he ever made this statement.  The supposed quote from the Muslim Brotherhood memorandum is questionable at best (see Muslim Brotherhood Document of the Muslim or Islamophobic Lunatic Fringe?).  The quote attributed to Ibrahim Hooper is not only out of context, but can be variously interpreted (see A response to Daniel Pipes’ allegations).

Here are the 4 freedoms Spencer mentions:

— 1. Freedom of religion, and non-establishment of religion.  “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” — First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution — 2. Freedom of speech “Congress shall make no law…abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press…” — First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution — 3. Equality of rights before the law “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” — Declaration of Independence — 4. Governments deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.  “That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…” — Declaration of Independence

I would agree with him on the importance of these freedoms and many more (for example,habeas corpus, the rule of law, civil rights, surveillance and profiling of citizens, etc.) and agree that all Americans must in every generation defend these freedoms from those who would undermine them.  American Muslims have strongly defended those freedoms:

1.  Freedom of religion, and non-establishment of religion.  American Muslim Academics/Scholars/Imams/Professionals issued a statement upholding the Freedom of Faith and the Freedom to Change one’s Faith.  And, many Muslims have spoken out about this issue.  See Apostasy and Freedom of Faith in Islam which includes a collection of articles.

2.  Freedom of speech.  American and Canadian Muslims issued a Defense of Freedom of Speech.  This statement specifically states that We uphold the First Amendment of the US Constitution and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.  Both protect freedom of religion and speech, because both protections are fundamental to defending minorities from the whims of the majority.

3. Equality of rights before the law, and 4. Governments deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. See below.

Read the rest…

, , , , , , , ,

    • Sarah Brown

      That’s fair enough Ilisha – I have been arguing the same myself today!

      “Adrian – I think you, anyone, should be able to criticise Islam – to be Islamophobic indeed. I also think some strands of that criticism might reasonably be objected to by Muslims. I think they should, obviously, be able to articulate those objections. Then we can all make up our minds where we stand. It would be possible to agree that Islam is subjected to a lot of scrutiny, or make the kind of point I make in that comment I quote about people only focusing on the worst manifestations of Islam, without in any way wanting to censor such criticism of Islam.”

      And in both the instances I cite where I bore that piece by Danios in mind, I did so in a not unsympathetic spirit. Sometimes – and this is the same with some pieces I read about antisemitism – I may not quite agree, or not be sure whether I agree (there isn’t a litmus test) but do recognize that the concerns are sincerely felt and worth thinking about.

    • Sarah Brown

      Geji – well, I do wish you would comment to clear things up directly. Some of it is just anti-Islam (but do note that we have a couple of commenters who just can’t stand any religion) but some of it seems more genuinely challenging of some of the positions here maybe. I feel that, much of the time, I’m not so far away from ATL writers here, or if I don’t agree I see where they are coming from. For example, when I read the piece about Mona Eltahawy and Arab men I felt ambivalent as I felt that she should be able to say what she likes where she likes, and was raising some valid points. But I bore it in mind both when I posted about a pro-women march in Egypt (through emphasising in my post the presence of supportive men – that was where the piece here influenced me) and also when I posted about this piece about Alice Walker’s Israel boycott stuff –

      https://engageonline.wordpress.com/2012/06/23/alice-walkers-latest-bds-move/

      I quoted Danios as an interesting parallel. So – I’ll listen to you, but I listen to the people on HP as well and it gets hard to adjudicate when you don’t occupy the same spaces much.

    • Sam Seed

      @Mesa, this site is about fighting Islamophobia. Maybe you should ‘listen’ to what you write before making a judgment.

    • Géji

      @Sarah Brown: “It’s not premoderated and it’s very liberal”

      Sarah my dear, there’s nothing “liberal” about a free fall ignorant spewing, especially if there isn’t really substantial back up to stop the sinking, at the end all it does is just inevitably hit the floor. Some, if not most of those comments are just pretty appalling, it will take a whole lot of web to stop the chute.

    • Mesa

      Do you ever listen to yourselves speak? I have read your articles, responses, ideas, attitudes and wordings and it sounds worse than the rhetoric Spencer uses. Instead of looking to protest “Islamaphobia”, why not discuss the very many Muslim organizations? Give the names, addresses and positive outcomes from the very many American/Islamic demonstrations showing solidarity with OUR constitution! Perhaps then, more American Christians, Jews, Buddhists and others will be able to discuss the situation more intelligently.

    • Sarah Brown

      Yes, it is the same Adrian Morgan. I am not a fan of Spinwatch BTW. I don’t always agree with AM, and clearly the kind of profile you link to is going to pick out the most controversial pieces/incidents. But even though I – let alone you – don’t see eye to eye with him, that doesn’t itself invalidate any substantive points he might raise. He has actually argued extremely eloquently against anti-Muslim bigotry on many occasions, although I still accept he isn’t going to be your cup of tea!

      I am sorry you find some comments offensive – yes, I shouldn’t have given the impression that anything offensive, which is a subjective term, is deleted. I wish you would point out anything wrong, I mean factually wrong – either mention it here or there – the commenters who were more hostile to my post are also probably those most immersed in the issues, so it’s hard to get a complete picture.

    • Sarah Brown

      @Garibaldi – It’s not premoderated and it’s very liberal. Really offensive – say racist – comments are deleted. Unfortunately I don’t know enough about the specifics of Islam/Muslims in the US, so it has been difficult to know how to respond to some of the criticisms of Musaji.

    • Garibaldi

      @Sarah,

      You’re welcome.

      That’s a real interesting discussion that has ensued, is it a completely free comment policy at Harry’s Place?

    • Given the choice between the Muslim Brotherhood and a military party, I think Egyptians made the right choice. I just hope my country, the United States, backs off and allows Egypt to find it own way in its own democracy.

      This business that democracy and Islam are not compatable is nonsense. Iran had a democracy in the early 1950s. Unfortunately, England and the United States couldn’t stand the decisions being made in democratic Iran, i.e., the decision to own its own oil, and they, England & the U.S. staged an assassination and the return of authoritarian rule.

      I have this wish of my country regarding all other countries in the world: back off, let them be, and take care of your own backyard.

    • Garibaldi

      @Sarah, where was this question posed, and by who?

      We don’t have an official stance on the Muslim Brotherhood. Most of the articles about the MB on Loonwatch discuss the pervading myths in the West, especially in the USA, that somehow the MB is infiltrating and taking over not only our government but our societies, that they are using taqiyyah, stealth jihad, etc. to do so.

      I don’t see a theocratic totalitarian threat from the MB’s political party FJP. The FJP’s positions and statements have all been aligned towards embracing and affirming Republican and Democratic values/processes. As Islamic scholar Khaled Abou Fadl said recently in an interview with the Huffington Post that we re-posted,

      What you’re going to see is a lot of tension and friction forcing the Ikhwan (MB) to distinguish themselves from the Wahhabi and Salafi types. I think they’re going to draw closer to the model of [Tunisia’s] Ghannoushi and the Islamist party in Turkey. Among the Ikhwan themselves, no one is in any mood to talk about whether music is halal or haram, or whether women should be banned from this or that, or all that social stuff, while the Jama’a al-Islamiya (Wahhabist) are fantasizing about it. And I think there’s going to be a lot of friction, and ultimately the Ikhwan are going to be forced away from the Wahhabis. It’s very difficult to work with the Wahhabis or live with the Wahhabis long term, because they lack flexibility in their thought.

      Another positive indicator in terms of political Islam. I personally was surprised in this whole process how very few Egyptians even contemplated the idea of living in a state resembling the Iranian or Saudi model. Even those who voted for the Ikhwan believe that personal piety might make people less corrupt, but I haven’t encountered any substantial numbers who say, “We vote for the Ikhwan because they will rule in the name of God and apply God’s law, which is infallible.” I definitely think this whole experience in Tunisia, and Egypt, and Syria is a return to authenticity in the sense that no one is denying their Islamic identity. But at the same time they are re-structuring that identity in a way that is entirely consistent with ideas of democracy. It’s remarkable to me how many mosques I attended in Egypt where the sheikh would say, “God has given you the right to decide who will rule you, and no one can take that away.” That has to be positive. It’s very different from the years I spent in Kuwait or Saudi Arabia, where all you’re told is basically that you have to obey the ruler if he beats you or oppresses you. It’s a really different discourse, so yeah I’m optimistic.

      I think the real issue is the military and foreign intervention. That’s quite clear. This is not the first constitutional awakening in this part of the world. There have been several in the past, and some quite enlightened ideas, and every time foreign intervention aborts the project. But I think it’s not going to be at all easy, because of the level of education and because of the modern means of exchanging information, which provide multiple sources so that no one relies on state TV. It’s not going to be easy to just control and steer people as happened in the past.

      https://www.loonwatch.com/2012/07/islamic-scholar-khaled-abou-el-fadl-discusses-the-struggle-to-control-egypt/

      It goes without saying that criticism directed against the MB is something that is NECESSARY and should be completely welcome, it does not translate into anti-Muslim hatred, duh! Isn’t that obvious?

      In the past I have commented that I do view the MB’s rise with trepidation, but I agree with Fadl that there are more positive indicators than bad.

    • Sarah Brown

      I hope you don’t mind if I pass on a question from someone which stemmed, indirectly, from Sheila Musaji’s post.

      “Does Loonwatch regard the Muslim Brotherhood as a problematic and theocratic totalitarian organisation?

      Or does it take the view that the Muslim Brotherhood is a benign organisation which is unjustly maligned, and that even specific directed criticism against the party and particular activists is essentially anti-Muslim hatred?”

      Of course different people will probably have different answers.

    • marco

      They talk freedom only for themselves, yet at the same time seek to restrict the freedom of anyone they disagree with.

    • Sir David Illuminati membership number 16.69

      I think you are being really hard on the poor guy . I mean his employers made him work on a national holiday . Its no wonder he turns out such shoddy material. I think we should campaign for better pay for Spencer. Then maybe he could afford some decent clothes , get a real girl friend insted of having to hang around with deranged millionaresses and may be just may be write a book that would be worth reading .

      Sir David Leftwing mooslim Alliance West Anjou Branch

      Note We are still collecting Funds for the Free Sarko Fund , So far we have collected a staggering 0.14€

    • Sarah Brown

      I thought this was a really good post.

    • moosern

      The interesting thing about the Constitution is that there were many Christian pastors that were against it, as it did not create a Christian nation or give Christianity dominion over other faiths. And Mr. Spencer’s religion was outlawed in most of the US before the Constitution.

    • Yes, Robert Spencer is a very sad figure. But let us remember that one of our Founding Fathers, Thomas Jefferson, who also died on the Forth of July, had his very own copy of the Quran.

    • @mindy1

      He’s done this before actually. This not the first fourth of July Spencer has used to spread promote his message. I think the Jihad Watch commentary that Sheila is refuting is an old one that Spencer simply re-posted again this year.

  • mindy1

    Sad that he cannot even celebrate a holiday without hate

LGF: Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer’s Friend Freely Admits to Beating and Stabbing Muslims

By on April 9, 2012 in Loon Violence, Loon-at-large

Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer‘s thugish friend exposed as violent anti-Muslim hate-mongering psychopath, freely admits to targeting, beating, cutting and stabbing Muslims.

Rodan Exposed: The Shocking Audio

by Gus (Little Green Footballs)

CONTENT WARNING: Listener discretion is advised. The following video (audio) contains explicit language, hate speech, racial slurs, and violent rhetoric including descriptions of past incidents of violent crimes as described by the subject.

ADDITIONAL WARNING: Rodan also drops the N-Word towards the end of the audio.

The following is an audio recording of Rodan (real name: Rick Martinez) as described in the captioned text below the audio. The subject is Rodan (aka Trajan 75, Emporer Palpatine, et al). Rodan began as webmaster for Think Progress Watch and is currently the webmaster and primary functionary at The Blogmocracy and The Diary of Daedalus.

The Diary of Daedalus is a site dedicated to the tracking and harassment of Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs and members of Little Green Footballs. It has been previously cited in blogs or on Twitter by Andrew Breitbart; Dan Riehl of Riehlworldview; Donald Douglas of American Power; R.S. McCain of The Other McCain; Robert Spencer of Jihadwatch; and others.

Please note that I am not the creator of said video nor am I affiliated with the uploader of said video on Youtube. This is not an endorsement of his or her beliefs whatever they may be. Also note that this is all public information and this video/audio has been present on Youtube since 2009. The purpose of this information herein is to reveal the true nature and background of the creator and webmaster for The Blogmocracy and The Diary of Daedalus most commonly known as Rodan.

The Diary of Daedalus most commonly known as Rodan. (Click here to view the video)

This description is from the original post at YouTube; Rodan and his followers reported the video for “hate speech” and got it pulled from YouTube. (Yes, they reported their own founder for hate speech.) It’s now hosted at LGF so they can’t make it disappear.

Rodan a.k.a. Emporer Palpatine shares his thoughts on Muslims, and gives anecdotes in regards to the Muslims he “sliced and diced” in the early 90’s.

The recording you are about to hear was recorded on the morning of June 6th, 2009 at approximately 3:40 AM.

It was recorded in “Wine Drinkers kick ass”; the room of Emporer Palpatinea.k.a. Rodan.

The following rant given by Rodan is recorded as it was, with the exception of a pause to insert Marlen2008’s text.

This, although heard by a select few, is being released after 6 months. We feel that it is time for this recording to be made public.

The subject matter may be shocking. Listener discretion is advised.

, , , , , , , , , ,

← Older Comments
 →
    • RDS

      @Franczeska:

      That being said, Jan Sobieski is still hailed as “The Savior of European Christendom” thanks to his victory against the Ottomans.

    • Black Infidel

      The most dangerous gang is MS-13 aka Mara Salvatrucha. Mara Salvatrucha is a Latin American gang from El Salvador.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_Salvatrucha

      Islamophobes like Bridgette Gabriel claims that MS-13 and Muslim terrorists are working together.

    • Franczeska

      There’s been at least one chapter of the Latin Kings in Spain for a few years now. I don’t know if they are officially sanctioned by any of the leadership in the USA or not.

    • @dan15

      What exactly are you talking about? The Latin Kings are an American Street gang. What were a bunch of them doing in Spain?

    • dan15

      Latin Kings? LMAO he would have got his ass beat in Madrid since years ago they stood up to those cowards for raping Spaniard women then.

← Older Comments
 →

Robert Spencer Fail: Tries to Use Death of Pope Shenouda III to Promote Sectarianism and Islamophobia

By on March 22, 2012 in Feature, Loon Blogs

JihadWatch’s anti-Muslim fear-mongering director Robert Spencer likes to selectively highlight the most egregious and sectarian statements by Muslims to further his hate agenda against Islam/Muslims.

In the wake of the death of the Coptic Pope Shenouda III he posted a piece about how a cleric named Wagdi Ghoneim said that the death of Pope Shenouda was a “relief” because the Pope caused “sectarian strife” and sought to make Egypt into a “Coptic state.”

To address that specifically, I wonder if the irony is lost on Wagdi Ghoneim, he accused Pope Shenouda of having furthered “sectarian strife” but by writing what he did he himself engaged in “sectarian strife.”

While there are small fringe groups of Copts who wish to turn Egypt into a Coptic state, trying to push this concept as emerging from the Pope, or the mainstream of Copts is similar to the “Islamization” myth that ironically Spencer and his acolytes regularly engage in. The Pope himself was a nationalist and opposed “foreign intervention” and stated that while Copts are “marginalized” in Egypt they are not “oppressed.”

That said, the main point I want to highlight is the fact that Robert Spencer is attempting to shift focus from the overwhelming support and expressions of condolences and grief from Muslims for the passing of the Pope. He chooses one cleric and tries to attribute it as the general feeling of Muslim Egyptians.

This couldn’t be further from the truth.

High ranking Muslim politicians, scholars, clerics, intellectuals and lay people expressed their sympathy and sadness at his passing.

“His holiness lived and died as a loyal patriot to his country,” Parliament Speaker Saad el-Katatni, an Islamist, told a joint meeting of the two chambers of parliament Saturday.

Sheikh Ahmed El-Tayeb, Grand Imam of al-Azhar, the highest seat of religious learning in the Sunni world, offered his condolences to the Egyptian people for such a great loss, saying,

“Egypt has lost one of its rare men at a sensitive moment when it most needs the wisest of its wise – their expertise and their purity of minds.”

Egypt Mufti Sheikh Ali Gomaa also mourned the deceased pontiff as a great Egyptian and patriot, saying,

“His death is a tragedy and a great loss for Egypt and its people of Muslims and Christians.”

Freedom and Justice Party, the Muslim Brotherhood’s political arm and the party with the largest majority in parliament stated,

“The Freedom and Justice Party sends its deepest condolences to the Egyptian people and our Christian brothers over the death of Pope Shenouda III,” FJP leader Mohamed Mursi said.

Presidential contenders such as Amr Moussa and Ahmed Shafiq also expressed their sadness,

Presidential aspirant Amr Moussa said he was saddened by Pope Shenouda’s death.

“We have lost a great value and a pre-eminent pope,” said Ahmed Shafiq, another presidential contender, and a Mubarak-era prime minister.

For more see: Egypt Muslims Mourn Pope Shenouda’s Passing

Here is a picture of Egyptian Christians expressing their thanks and reciprocating the “love” they received at the death of their leader:

Pope_Shenouda_Muslim_Christian_Unity

Egyptian Christians stand in front of a picture of the late Pope Shenouda III after receiving condolences from both Muslims and Christians. Signs read in Arabic (H/T: ZH): “We feel your love. Thank you, Muslim brothers and sisters”

, , , , , , , , ,

    • dominicdecocco

      @Pat Condell

      Mr. Condell has proven through his Vlogs that he is incompetent at thinking. The major crises that are effecting the UK are related to horrendous socio-economic management of which Muslims are not the problem: we have not caused unemployment and saturated education system nor did we cause the recession!

      If Condell gave a damn about the UK and the rest of the world, he would advocate on tackling these issues not non-existent threats that Muslims are trying to takeover the world.

    • Just Stopping By

      @CriticalDragon1177 and @Solid Snake:

      I believe that you are misreading Pat Condell. He states, “I[‘]m glad that this site exists, [as it] is proof of what [re]tards the Islamophobia industry are [sic]” meaning that he believes that those in what he would call the industry of exploiting Islamophobia are mentally deficient. (Compare to Finkelstein’s “Holocaust industry” as a group said to exploit something real and negative.)

      I don’t know Mr. Condell’s comedy, but I wonder if it is as difficult to parse as his comment above. To be a good comedian, one should be a wit. Based on the clarity of his writing here, Mr. Condell may be only half that.

    • Solid Snake

      @Pat Condell

      Not sure if sarcasm or change of heart…what’ll it be Mr. Comedian?

    • Pat Condell

      Im glad this site exists, proof of what tards the Islamophobia industry are.

    • Géji

      @Arab Atheist Says: atheism “cult”?

      Come on Arab Atheist, when did atheists become overly sensitive as religious nuts tend to get?? would it be that maybe after-all Atheism is just “the new” religion on the block? — But anyway, I do see Atheism as a cult, just like I do see religions are themselves. Don’t take it the wrong way, I certainly did not mean as “insulting” way or anything, I know the word “cult” often get a bad reputation and a negative connotation, but there is also a neutral definition of the word, that state any ideology that cultivates it’s own “Believe” system, including of course Islam, can be called a cult, and it doesn’t necessarily mean in negative sense, of course others may disagree with me on this, but that’s how I see it.

      > “To me, my religion, to you, yours”

      For sure Arab Atheist, for sure, and I never suggested otherwise in my previous post, peace be with you brother.

    • Arab Atheist – ملحد عربي

      @Géji atheism “cult”? لكم دينكم ولي دين To me, my religion, to you, yours

    • Géji

      It’s funny how the Christian nuts like Spencer always see Islam as the ‘big threat’ to their ideology and the one that most likely ‘convert’ Christians, not realizing it is actually the atheism cult that has done far more damage to Christianity in taking big junks out of European Christians to make it it’s own. Aren’t like half of Europe secular atheists?

    • @Emperor,

      Actually come to think of it, the man has been betraying those principals since day one of his bigoted crusade.

    • @Emperor

      I’m so glad I now see Spencer and his ilk for what they really are. Spencer betrays the very principals he claims to hold dear by doing this.

    • Zakariya Ali Sher

      I doubt Spencer wants a Coptic state in Egypt. Yes, he is a Christian nut, but he is also a decidedly sectarian one. I don’t see him recognizing (or respecting) the sanctity of the Coptic Pope’s title. He wants to bring everyone into communion with Rome, with the Roman Pope as first among equals. While Spencer may try to portray himself as sympathetic towards Copts and Assyrians, it is only because they are surrounding by a Muslim minority. You’ll notice he doesn’t go around supporting the Russian, Bulgarian or Finnish Orthodox Churches. Indeed, his cohorts and counterparts in Europe seem to be anti-Slavic immigration as well.

    • crow

      I’m tired of Spencer and the white trash that post on his site. It makes me sick when I see the violent garbage they post while claiming to be “Christian” or talk proudly about teaching their family to hate Muslims.

    • Abdul-Rahman

      Spencer is a lying, hatemonger of course. The vast majority of Egyptians of all backgrounds have always promoted inter-religious harmony in Egypt. That is why after the Coptic church was bombed in January 2011 in Alexandria there were huge mourning rallies of Egyptian Muslims condemning the bombing and standing with their Coptic brothers and sisters (often holding banners with the Crescent and Cross intertwined). It was also widely reported that many Egyptian Muslims then volunteered to act as “human shields” at different Coptic churches throughout Egypt as a symbol of unity, and many of these volunteer “human shields” were Egyptian Islamic scholars and religious students from the Muslim al-Azhar University in Cairo.

    • Garibaldi

      @Cloud, you are correct he has said as much, he fears Islam as a threat to his faith:

      “Islam itself is an incomplete, misleading, and often downright false revelation which, in many ways, directly contradicts what God has revealed through the prophets of the Old Testament and through his Son Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh… For several reasons… Islam constitutes a threat to the world at large.” [5]

      “We wanted Catholics to become informed about Islam because not only is Islam the church’s chief rival in terms of religion but Islam is a serious threat to the peace and well-being of the Western world in general,” [6]

      http://spencerwatch.com/spenceritis/

      I agree he does want to see a Coptic state in Egypt as surely as he wants to see a Christian state in the US.

    • cloud

      Robert Spencer would love to see a Coptic state in Egypt, I’m sure he would also love to see a Christian state here in the U.S, people forget that apart from being an Islamophobe he’s also a religious nut. He tries to hide his pro Christian bias by saying things such as Islam is anti-freedom, anti-human rights, anti-women etc. but the real reason is that in his mind he feels that Islam is a threat to his own religious belief, but he knows that if he frames his argument around that no one would take him seriously. At the end of the day Robert Spencer and his silly views are irrelevant and as one academic put it. they will end up in the dustbin of history.

    • Al

      Silly Spencer…

    • Garibaldi

      Good point @Just Stopping By.

    • mindy1

      RIP sir, and may peace reign in Egypt

    • Just Stopping By

      “I wonder if the irony is lost on Wagdi Ghoneim,…”

      Actually, the real irony is that Spencer is having a fit that someone is accusing a minority religous group of trying to take over a country and remake it in its image. It would be nice to think that Spencer now sees how wrong such accusations are, but I won’t hold my breath.

See, We Told You: Geert Wilders Xenophobia is Not Limited to Muslims

By on March 15, 2012 in Feature, Loon Politics

Still my favorite picture of Geert Wilders

Far-right populist Geert Wilders has made a name for himself through his anti-Muslim and anti-Arab rhetoric, and for this reason he is, to quote Robert Spencer, one of the “heroes” of the anti-Muslim movement.

We have consistently pointed out however that Geert Wilders and his allies are not one stop bigots. Behind the “acceptable” attacks on Muslims is hidden a wider xenophobia against ‘the other.’ A bigotry which if not born out of any consistent ideological character is definitely a reflection of the realization that playing on the fears of the majority may lead to positive results at the ballot box.

Wilders and his party, the PVV are riding a wave of popularity through the launch of an anti-Polish/anti-Eastern European website which has been the cause of much controversy and embarrassment in the Netherlands. After launching the site it was reported that the PVV,

would gain 24 seats in parliament if elections were held today, the number of seats the party currently holds, says pollster Maurice de Hond. Geert Wilders’ populist far-right party is the third largest party in the Netherlands.

Wilders’ PVV site displays,

news clippings with bold headlines blaming foreigners for petty crime, noise nuisance – and taking jobs from the Dutch. “Are immigrants from Central and Eastern countries bothering you? We’d like to hear from you,” it says.

The Dutch government has distanced itself from the website but this hasn’t ebbed the disastrous PR that Wilders move has generated.

Besides criticism from ten European ambassadors and the European Commission, the Dutch public has also expressed concerns about possible repercussions. Poles are calling for a boycott of Dutch products.(emphasis mine)

The issue was taken to the European parliament which just yesterday announced its ‘dismay’ and formal response to Wilders most recent populist move:

EP condemns PVV website, exec puts ball in Netherlands’ court

By Gaspard Sebag in Strasbourg | Wednesday 14 March 2012 (Europolitics.info)

Representatives of the political groups in the European Parliament, on 13 March, unanimously called upon the Netherlands’ Prime Minister, Mark Rutte, to condemn a website launched by his far-right political ally, the PVV party headed by Geert Wilders. Said website, up since early February, urges Dutch citizens to report problems they experience with nationals of Central and Eastern European countries. “Unacceptable,” “a disgrace,” “scandalous” – said MEPs. The European Commission, for its part, announced it would not get involved from a legal point of view and leaves the responsibility of assessing the lawfulness of the website to the Dutch authorities. A joint parliamentary resolution will be put to the vote, on 15 March (see box).

The EPP, which counts among its ranks the junior partner in the Netherlands’ government, the centre-right CDA, was particularly vocal. “We cannot tolerate, from a party that takes part in a coalition government, a call to hatred against nationals from another member state. That is unacceptable,” said EPP leader Joseph Daul (France).

Despite the fact that Rutte is part of the Liberal political family, ALDE Chair Guy Verhofstadt (Belgium) was unequivocal about condemning the “silence” of the Dutch government and the message sent by the website. “My group has nothing but contempt for Mr Wilders’ initiative.” Recalling the need to be even-handed in criticising populist tactics, Verhofstadt lumped together French President Nicolas Sarkozy and Wilders. “I wonder who is the extreme-right wing candidate [in France], is it [Marine] Le Pen or Sarkozy?” he asked.

Reactions from other political group leaders all condemned Rutte’s passivity, whose hands are tied by his need for Wilders’ support, and who thus claims it is not a governmental issue. S&D leader Hannes Swoboda (Austria) called for the website to be closed down. Polish deputy Jacek Kurski (EFD) said Rutte’s lack of reaction is “scandalous”. “The prime minister [of the Netherlands] is not taking up his responsibility,” said Marije Cornelissen (Greens-EFA, Netherlands). “The prime minister ought to have directly condemned this website,” said Peter van Dalen (ECR, Netherlands), adding, however, that the EP holding a debate on this issue is “too much honour” for Wilders.

Justice Commissioner Viviane Reding, who had already condemned the PVV website in February, welcomed the comments made in the plenary chamber. “It is unacceptable that EU citizens become target of xenophobic attitudes because they have exercised their right to move from one state to another,” she said. Reding also called upon on the Dutch authorities to “fully investigate the lawfulness of the website under Dutch law and Union law”.

According to Marie-Christine Vergiat (GUE-NGL, France), this is not enough. “You continue to refer to member states and their tribunals but I thought that the Commission was the guardian of the treaties, that freedom of circulation and non-discrimination were part of the European values,” she said. “I notice that certain values are more important than others and that in economic matters when the free circulation of goods and capital is concerned, competition barriers the Commission is prompter to condemn,” added Vergiat.

, , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

    • Just Stopping By

      @Believing Atheist says, “This will be my last and final comment on LW.” No!!!

      “last and final”? You can’t leave on such a redundant comment!

    • Believing Atheist

      I hope LW publishes this new article exposing Geert Wilders by Radio Netherlands:

      It’s not every day that a member of parliament decides to leave his or her party and go it alone. So Hero Brinkman’s defection from the Freedom Party was bound to make news.

      Yet, this defection is more newsworthy than most. For one thing, it removes the parliamentary majority that the current coalition held in the lower house. The two parties forming the minority coalition, the VVD and CDA, depend on support from the Freedom Party (PVV) in parliament. Together, the three parties had 76 seats. With one now gone, they control just half the lower house.

      Prime Minister Mark Rutte might take solace in the fact that the opposition does not firmly control the rest of the seats either. He already has the tacit support of the two-seat right-wing religious SGP party. Moreover, Brinkman has promised to continue to support “the best government this country has ever had”. Still, Brinkman’s defection is a bombshell for the PVV.

      Wilders is the party; the party is Wilders Discipline is the PVV’s mantra. Geert Wilders runs an extremely tight ship and with good reason. After all, the PVV was the second right-wing populist party to emerge in 21st-century Dutch politics. The first, List Pim Fortuyn, captured 26 seats at its first parliamentary election, joined a coalition government and then fell apart in an avalanche of petty bickering.

      Wilders, himself a VVD defector, knew he did not want to create something new only to see it disappear in a similar fashion. Everything about the PVV guards against revealing even the slightest hint of chaos. It is not a political party in the traditional sense. With just one member – Wilders himself – the PVV holds no conferences. Wilders delegates only to a handful of trusted colleagues, who are anyway limited in what they can do on their own.

      First chink in the armour Brinkman’s defection is the first major chink in this armour of rock-solid discipline. Until now, he has remained loyal even after voicing criticism. Brinkman came out publicly against one-man rule a few years ago, when he called for more democracy within the party. Though rebuffed, he pursued efforts to start a youth movement. Even after that project was reigned in, Brinkman stuck by Wilders. Until now, that is. Brinkman is not only the first PVV MP to defect (a number of provincial politicians have left). He comes from the core group that began with Wilders in 2005. He was also one of the most visible MPs.

      Core group The damage to Wilders goes beyond a dent in the public image of an extremely disciplined party. Wilders loses a colleague who dared to talk back. PVV MPs say their meetings are free-flowing exchanges of information. But, given Wilders’ autocratic control, it is hard to imagine all MPs feel free to express their opinions. Brinkman claims he was comfortable standing up to Wilders. In the long run, the party leader may end up missing his opinionated feedback.

      Secrets exposed Now Brinkman is sharing his opinions with the outside world. Less than 12 hours after announcing his defection, Brinkman indicated that the PVV receives substantial amounts of money from ‘US lobby firms’. This was long suspected, but has yet to be proven. The party is under no legal requirement to divulge its sources of funds.

      Brinkman also accused his former party of political opportunism, stigmatising groups such as Muslims and Eastern Europeans for political gain. The controversial PVV website for registering complaints about Eastern Europeans was not well thought-out, he said, particularly from a group wanting to be seen as a responsible, governing party.

      More criticism to come? Brinkman is by no means finished criticising his former party. He has announced that he is writing a book about the PVV.

      Only once before, in its nearly seven years of existence, has the PVV had to deal with an insider revealing its inner workings. Towards the end of 2009, a journalist published a series of diary entries based on her experience working undercover in parliament for the PVV. The damage was primarily personal and psychological – nothing close to what a confidant could reveal in a kiss-and-tell memoir.

      So, besides Brinkman, are there others? For now, he appears to be alone. He was the only PVV MP who openly called for more democracy in the party. All accounts of his last weeks indicate he had little support in the caucus, but claims support from a few of his former colleagues. They just don’t dare to speak out. What effect will his example have on the others?

      A vulnerable time Brinkman’s defection comes at a vulnerable time for Wilders. He is involved in intense negotiations about a new round of austerity measures, measures he himself does not want and which will be unpopular with his constituents. He has now lost his strongest bargaining chip – pulling out of the governing construction and taking the country to the polls. With a party weakened by defection, Wilders may now be stuck with whatever he can get at the negotiations. http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/first-chink-geert-wilders%E2%80%99-armour

      This will be my last and final comment on LW. Thank you LW for tolerating me and posting many of my comments on your blog. Forgive me for any of my transgressions and I wish you the best of luck in combating bigotry and anti-Muslim sentiment.

    • Benjamin Taghiov

      Muslims face most racism in Sweden

      Muslims are exposed to the most racial harassment in Sweden, according to a new report from the Board of Integration.

      Seven out of ten reports of ethnic discrimination came from people with a Muslim background, and almost 40% of those questioned in the survey said they had witnessed verbal abuse directed at Muslims.

      The report, Racism and Xenophobia in Sweden, also showed an increasing intolerance of immigration.

      “If you look at the whole period from 1999 to 2004 there has been a significant increase in the number of people who want to close Sweden’s borders to immigration, from 35% to 45.5%,” said the report’s author, José Alberto Diaz.

      But the picture painted by the report is complex. While one in five respondents said that they were “negatively inclined towards people who they did not consider belonged in Sweden”, the support for anti-immigration political parties, such as the Sweden Democrats (Sverigedemokraterna) and the National Democrats (Nationaldemokraterna) is declining.

      One in four said they could consider voting for such a party, down from almost one in three in 1999.

      Two thirds of those questioned rejected the notion that Sweden is a racist country, and fewer people then five years ago believe that racism is increasing. In 1999, 56% said they believed racism was rising, but by 2004 this had decreased to 46%.

      http://www.thelocal.se/2363/20051025/

      ______________

      Sweden’s Jews, Muslims face web hate rise: study

      The number of xenophobic web sites have almost doubled since 2007 and Jews and Muslims wearing apparent religious symbols are subjected to significant discrimination in Sweden today, according to a new report from the Living History Forum (Forum för levande historia).

      “Sweden as a whole is a tolerant country but this report shows that racism is growing and is being professionalized on the internet. There is today a small but growing minority that harbour hatred against Muslims and Jews,” minister for integration, Erik Ullenhag, wrote in a statement on Monday.

      The report, which was requested by the government and carried out by the Forum, also shows that an increased number of racist web pages have been created in recent years and that prejudice is being spread through schoolbooks.

      According to the report, the number of racist sites in Sweden has almost doubled in two years. In 2009 there were around 8,000 xenophobic Swedish sites whereas today the authors of the report estimate an increase to 15,000.

      This follows a EU-wide trend where right wing extremist groups are using the internet to spread hate-propaganda.

      According to the report, these are characterized by anti-Semitic and Islamophobic views, where conspiracy theories are the most recurring elements.

      The Jewish group is often cast as world conspirators whereas the Muslim group is seen as physical occupiers, actively are on their way to taking over society through mass-immigration and rising nativity figures.

      The Jewish community in Sweden consists of some 20,000 individuals and the Muslim community of 300,000. Fresh crime statistics show that there were 161 reports of crimes with anti-Semitic motives and 272 with Islamophobic motives last year.

      But according to the Forum it is difficult to get a fair idea of the situation from these statistics as they are based on police reports and the authors believe there may be many more unrecorded cases.

      “Above all this study shows that research and follow-ups into preventative actions regarding intolerance against Jews and Muslims is sorely needed,” said head of Forum for Living History, Eskil Franck, in a statement.

      According to Ullenhag, Swedish authorities must further their knowledge about what causes the hate against these groups to grow in Sweden and how they should meet it. That, he said, is the aim behind the investigation regarding xenophobia that the government launched earlier this spring.

      “We have learnt from experiences in other European countries that all the forces who want a tolerant society need to be active in the public debate. Prejudice against Jews and Muslims can never be normalized,” said Ullenhag.

      When American research centre Pew recently investigated the development of religious conflicts and oppression worldwide between 2006 and 2009, Sweden distinguished itself as a country where hostilities related to religion are increasing the most.

      http://www.thelocal.se/35692/20110822/

    • dude

      You are fully right but it would be appreciated if things are not being fueled. The situation in Holland is tensed and a lot of foreigners are not safe here anymore…and in this regard you can think of absolutely anything, the range is wide. If things will be fueled, those people will be put in danger because the Dutch lost the control over the situation.

    • Eslaporte

      thank you for your link to the meldpuntpw. I have now started a campaign in my own country to ban yellow hair dye. It helps disguise identity and seems to make people crazy, adopting as they do, aryan type superiority complexes.

      I have begun to see my shrink since I think that I am beginning to suffer from yellowdyeophobia. http://oskarfreysingerwatch.blogspot.com/

    • @JD I live near the mosque of the Islamic Society of Southeastern Wisconsin. It has been their since the 1980s and nobody has trouble with it…

      I knew that the Netherlands would make trouble in the EU eventually. It’s rather sad. The country used to be a champion of human rights in the world. The country used to stand for international justice. Now – its foreign policy is based crafted on “clash” thesis, which will led to conflicts and wars.

      The Dutch were led to believe that “Pim and Theo” were heroes by being loud and obnoxious in the hate of their own country, as well as minorities. The Dutch tradition of tolerance was admired in the world. The country now hate foreigners, all foreigners.

      What is really funny is that foreigners built the Netherlands and the Low Countries.

      The reason why this has not be condemned by other political parties is that in the Dutch political system one party does not condemn the actions of another party. This is to not step on toes so that one’s own party can be included in a future governing coalition or consideration of policy proposals in the Tweede Kamer. This is part of the reason why the Islamization myths go unchallenged.

      Well – there is a Meldpunt PVV – http://meldpuntpvv.nl/

    • Christian-friend

      I see in the future….Greet Wilders blaming the country’s woes on anyone who isn’t blue eye and white, then shaking hands with a Neo-Nazi officer and praising Hitler!

    • Aspie and Atheist

      How about “live and let live.” Guess what, Muslims in the west are not trying to impose their views on anyone, they are just trying to live their lives according to their principles. But Europeans don’t want to see them, they don’t want any visibility of anything other than themselves. Europeans need to get over their superiority complex and face the horrors of their racism and colonial past, and realize that they’re no better than anybody else. Then maybe they could appreciate diversity instead of fearing it.

    • Yep! You were right. Bigots rarely are one stop bigots.

    • Of course the south dakota bill is unconstitutional JD and I must agree with you. The law is so patently silly that it will surely not last. I refer of course to Hosanna Tabor that the Supreme Court of the USA decided just last month.

      Courts will enforce provisions of religious codes if these relate to the governance of the religion. For example, the hiring of clergy as clergy will not be determined by fair employment practices.

    • Garibaldi

      I’m not too surprised about South Dakota to say the least.

      Thanks Khusboo, we’ll have to post this.

    • here is an interesting site that shows Geert Wielders:

      first as a long haired creepy brown haired and eyed loon,

      second as a brown eyed regular guy loon

      third to his latest incarnation as a blond blued eyed perfect aryan man loon.

      http://oskarfreysingerwatch.blogspot.com/

    • khushboo

      BREAKING NEWS EMPEROR:

      Did you know that last week history was made in Florida? The anti-Sharia bill that was supposed to become law died in the Florida Senate after passing in the Florida House by a vote of 92 to 24.

      Now the lawmakers who helped kill the bill are under attack by anti-Muslim hate groups. Can you take 30-seconds to thank those Florida Lawmakers who did the right thing?

      I just used the website

      http://stopsb1360.org to send an email to Thank the lawmakers who helped stop this bad law. It was really easy and it TOOK ME LESS THAN 30 SECONDS

      http://action.unitedvoices.com/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=9953

    • mindy1

      @South Dakota?? Really, this is what they focus on??

    • Sam

      Under the bill Daugaard signed, however, courts will be allowed to enforce contracts requiring disputes to be resolved under French law or ancient Roman law or under the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons second edition rules, but they won’t be allowed to enforce contracts requiring disputes to be resolved under the requirements of someone’s religious beliefs

      Hilarious!!!

    • NurAlia

      So…flipping a coin to settle a dispute if the parties agree is illegal now?

    • JD

      South Dakota Governor Signs Unconstitutional Anti-Muslim Bill

      http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/13/443666/south-dakota-governor-signs-unconstitutional-anti-muslim-bill/?mobile=nc

      Yesterday, South Dakota Gov. Dennis Daugaard (R) signed an unconstitutional law that purports to target courts applying religious law, but which is almost certainly part of a broader push by Islamophobic advocates to fight the imaginary problem of courts substituting Islamic law for American law. The brief bill Daugaard signed provides simply that “[n]o court, administrative agency, or other governmental agency may enforce any provisions of any religious code.”

      Although this bill does not specifically call out any particular religion for ill treatment, it violates the Free Exercise Clause of the Constitution. As the Supreme Court explained in Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye v. Hialeah, “the protections of the Free Exercise Clause pertain if the law at issue discriminates against some or all religious beliefs or regulates or prohibits conduct because it is undertaken for religious reasons.”

      While it is uncommon for American courts to apply religious law, it is not unheard of. Private parties sometimes enter into contracts where they agree to resolve their disputes under something other than U.S. law, and individuals sometimes write wills devising their property according to the tenets of their faith. Under the bill Daugaard signed, however, courts will be allowed to enforce contracts requiring disputes to be resolved under French law or ancient Roman law or under the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons second edition rules, but they won’t be allowed to enforce contracts requiring disputes to be resolved under the requirements of someone’s religious beliefs. This is discrimination “against some or all religious beliefs,” and is therefore unconstitutional.

    • JD

      Opponents of Proposed Mosque Clash with Islamic Society Organizers

      http://brookfield-wi.patch.com/articles/opponents-of-proposed-mosque-clash-with-islamic-society-organizers

      Fears that a mosque would bring religious extremists, and even ties to terrorism, surfaced Tuesday when leaders of the Islamic Society of Milwaukee arrived at an Eagle Forum meeting meant to rally Brookfield residents against the proposal.

      After the president and executive director of the society introduced themselves, the meeting at the Brookfield Library turned to debate, focused first on traffic concerns, but soon moving to attacks on the religion of Islam.

      “My fear is what is being taught there,” said a woman who did not want to give her name.

      “Our God is not your God,” one man said.

      “What is it about your religion that draws so much extremism and hatred?” another asked.

      Islamic Society of Milwaukee President Ahmad Quereshi and Executive Director Othman Atta answered their questions, alongside three members of the Brookfield-Elm Grove Interfaith Network.

      “You are our brothers and sisters of humanity,” Quereshi said. “We are not the people advocating for hatred and violence. We’re here as American citizens.”

      About 40 people showed up for the meeting, which forced the group outside into a standing circle where Janet Spiewak, president of the Eagle Forum of Wisconsin, first addressed them.

      She advised the group to leave religion out of their arguments and focus on the construction of the building and traffic it would bring. Aldermen also have warned opponents to stick to non-religious concerns.

      “We’re not fighting against a religion,” Spiewak said. “Concentrate on the traffic and zoning issues.”

      The Eagle Forum of Wisconsin’s website includes as part of its mission: “We must also be vigilant against external threats from rogue nations and radical Islamists.”

      Spiewak urged those present to voice their concerns to their aldermen.

      “Make yourselves heard,” she said. “You have 14 aldermen and a mayor who want to slip something past.”

      The Islamic Society of Milwaukee already owns the land at 16650 and 16730 W. Pheasant Dr., which is northeast of the intersection of Calhoun Road and North Avenue. But they still have several hurdles to pass before moving forward.

      After a public hearing tentatively scheduled for May 7, the plans will go before the Plan Commission for discussion and possible action on a required conditional use permit. If approved there, it will go to the full Common Council.

    • mindy1

      A hater who hates what a shocker/sarcasm

    • @Emperor

      I hope at least one of his supporters has found out about that website and what he has said earlier and maybe for the first time started to question everything Wilders was telling him. Maybe if he does not share his anti Eastern European views, it will lead him to doubt that he is as wise as he is made out to be. That might lead him to eventually reject Wilder’s bigotted views when it comes to Muslims.

This is Why Radical Christians are One of the Greatest Threats to the US Constitution

By on February 28, 2012 in Feature, Loon Politics
Santorum_Separation_Church_and_State

Rick Santorum on “This Week” with George Stephanopoulos

For the past several years Loonwatch writers have repeatedly made the very “significant” (and obvious) point that radical Christian Islamophobes seek to undermine the constitution of the USA by entangling church and state; i.e. undermining the separation of Church and State.

We have also pointed out that the fervent fear-mongering about “Islamization,” a fairytale concept, is nothing more than projection on the part of these radicals. (Propaganda about the “Islamization” of the USA is even more ridiculous when one considers history; the fact that America was forcibly “Christianized” by colonial settlers and their offspring.)

Many Radical Christians today believe America has changed too much and that the superior place of Christianity needs to be reasserted, i.e. re-Christianization. Not only does this thought permeate the GOP, it has infact captured the GOP. This much is clear from the ongoing reality TV circus known as the Republican primary debates.

Take Rick Santorum, it was recently revealed that he “felt like throwing up” when he first read JFK’s famous speech on the separation of church and state. He was questioned about this by George Stephanopoulos, Santorum replied that he felt like vomiting after reading the first substantive line of the speech in which JFK said, “Apparently it is important for me to state again, not what kind of church I believe in, for that should be important only to me, but what kind of America I believe in. I believe in an America in which the separation between church and state is absolute.“ Santorum went on to say,

I don’t believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute. The idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country.

This is a leading Republican candidate for the presidency saying this, it’s not something that should be simply ignored. Can one imagine if Rep.Keith Ellison, a Muslim Congressman had said the above? For a surety the Islamophobesphere would be flailing wildly about “Islamization” and the impending Sharia take over in Ellison’s home state of Minnesota.

One must also ask where is the condemnation from loons such as Robert Spencer, a fellow Catholic? We can answer our own question, Spencer is not interested in condemning this threat because he likely agrees with Santorum. Spencer in the past has spoken in forums where he has agreed with other speakers attacking the Enlightenment. His attacks weren’t of the philosophical post-modernist variety either but couched in defense of the faith rhetoric. As I wrote at the time,

Spencer agrees with Professor Kreeft regarding the Enlightenment being a threat to Catholicism though he didn’t explicitly say that Islam was less of a threat. I can see how Ultra-Conservative Catholics may rail against the Enlightenment, it was the era which saw a secularist revolt in the name of reason against the Catholic Church and which led to formulas for the Separation of Church and State, it also witnessed the decline of the power of the Catholic Church in the temporal realm.

Coming back to the main topic, I don’t believe Santorum misspoke. I don’t believe Santorum misunderstood what JFK meant or the impetus behind why he gave that famous 1960 speech. I don’t believe Santorum was making a point about how voices of faith need to be heard in the public square, etc.

Santorum believes America is a Christian country, he believes the “founding fathers” meant for it to stay that way and in fact supported such a notion. I am not sure whether Santorum follows the Dominionist ideology, (an ideology that seems to plague Protestants mostly), but he clearly believes the Church has a part to play in the operation of government.

This incident reveals the deep hypocrisy and faux loyalty to the Constitution amongst many of the Islamophobes and the populist politicians who are riding the Islam/Muslim-bashing wave. Islam and Muslims are being used as a distraction that serves to 1.) make us lose sight of the real issues, and 2.) covers a darker intent of reconquista, rechristianization by any means necessary.

Lastly, I want to clarify that this post is obviously not an attack on Christianity and should not be understood that way. The great majority of Christians are as repulsed as any other citizen when they hear such inanities spewing forth from the mouths of politicians speaking in the name of their faith. They are also on the front lines actively fighting this scourge.

*******************************

A very good video from the Young Turks on Rick Santorum’s attack on the Separation of Church and State:

, , , , , , , , , , ,

← Older Comments
 →
    • Hassan Nasrallah

      As an ex-Muslim, I have stopped supporting any country, government, religion, culture etc. in the world. I just consider myself a human being, I don’t belong to any “club”. For me there are only 2 categories of people; those who do and support evil, and those who do and support good deeds and peace.

    • Hassan Nasrallah

      Humans can easily see the radicalism of others, but they are unable to detect the radicalism in themselves. This goes for Muslims, Christians, Jews and others. Their group-thinking mentality, ego and pride prevents them from thinking objectively.

    • Kirook

      Are you writing this while high?

    • Kirook

      Yeah… I’m a Catholic, and even I think medieval/Enlightenment Catholics were a**holes.

    • Brie

      The Catholic church has a history of not only getting involved in government, but running the government, which is one of the reasons our founders harbored anti-catholic sentiments sadly and the separation of church and state was so important, to the point that catholics were not allowed to vote or even hold office in many states during Americas early years. The Catholic church’s atrocities and violation of rights in controlling the state are a lesson in history as to why separation of church and state is vital to a free society. As to the enlightenment, let us not forget history as to why people left the catholic church in droves. It started with Martin Luther, a man who the Catholic church tried to kill, and who had to be hidden away for years due to the catholic run state’s threat to his life because he held differing views of the Bible. Now during his isolation he translated the New Testament into German, a language people could read. The Catholic church would not translate the bible into a language of the people therefore effectively preventing them from reading the Bible themselves and therefore not able to challenge false doctrines. The enlightenment was due to the use of printing presses and people reading the Bible for themselves and therefore leaving the catholic church for Protestant denominations, people did not become less religious, just less Catholic. It is a shame to look at Catholic dominion before the enlightenment as something to be praised, it was nothing more than withholding the word of God from the common man, something Martin Luther put an end to, and without the reformation which led to the enlightenment even Catholics wouldn’t have a copy of the bible today.

    • Franczeska

      @”Truth man” Please let us all know the results of that upcoming drug-test you appear to have been cramming so hard for.

    • Truth man

      this article/garibaldi FACT-FREE article is such a sham/buffoon..HE FIRST SAYS THAT “separation of Church and state” ARE AT RISK IF THE “evil””right wing” christians win the elections, but he fails to admit that it is only in christian countries that secularism exists in its purest form, most honest and effective form, THANKS to the teachings of the christian churches-“Give to God what belongs to God, and to ceasar what belongs to ceasar!”-JESUS CHRIST.he then carries on with his manipulative warped logic waring that considering “america2 as a “christain nation” is somehow “offensive,false, evil and dangerous”?!??!!WTF..?!?? buit when muslim imans, sheiks consider christianity (along with christians anmd all non-muslims)”evil”,”shirk2″impure2″sinful2 and destined to be destroyed by muslims, alonmg with everything that came out from christianity that includesdemocracy, human rights, freedom of expression..secularism, that IS NOT a threat to the constitution, neither is the sharia that totally contradicts all american values and rights to the core!Garibaldi..leftys, pleeease..wake up and smell the smoke.what are you doing to mankind, to maerica and to yourselves? you are in bed with satan-islam!!yopu contrdict yourselves in the worst way possible.ther is nothing rightful, progressive, liberal, humansit about deffendinf barbarism, violence, never-ending jihad/wars, opression of wimen and non-muslims, destroying mankind!

    • Lo

      Why are radical Muslims called ‘Islamists’ when radical Christians are not ‘Christianist’? Even radical Jews are not called ‘Jewist’ (they are more likely referred to as ‘Kahanists’). I’d like to point out the bitter fact that even Loonwatch has a tag of ‘Islamist’. How would Americans like it if organisations like SIOA and idiots like George Bush are called Americanists?

    • Saladin

      @Solid Snake

      “WOW! That pretty much covers all the bases! Please tell me he’s black! A black gay Muslim defending santorum! THERE’S NO WAY HE COULD BE A BIGOT! LOOK WHOS DEFENDING HIM Lmao!!”

      It gets better than that I think he is also mixed with Latino and Black I mean how can a person with a Latino/Black/Gay/Muslim friend ever be a bigot I think LoonWatch should reconsider their stance on him LOL

    • Black Infidel

      If your against the separation of church and state, US Constitution, Bill of Rights etc. etc. you are a Dominionist and a threat to the American way. No ifs, ands nor buts about it.

    • Black Infidel

      Not many people are aware of Christian Reconstruction, Dominionism and Dominion Theology. Those 3 are the real threat to the US. I’ve just watch the video called “The Rise of Dominionism” it mention Rick Santorum. Rick Santorum is indeed a Dominionist.

  • mindy1

    @Believingatheist that is good to see

Powered by Loon Watchers