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Moriscos, Marranos, Columbus, and Islamophobes

A very interesting article by Sheila Musaji on the early presence of Muslims in the Americas and how this is driving Islamophobes crazy.:

Moriscos, Marranos, Columbus, and Islamophobes

by Sheila Musaji (The American Muslim)

Pamela Geller was horrified by comments reportedly made at the recent Jumah at the DNC event. She comments on an article in the Washington Times that quoted one of the organizers, Jibril Hough,  as saying :

“Muslims visited America prior to Columbus. It was a Muslim who guided Columbus on his voyage to the new world.”

Geller find this a “desecration of American history”, and “Islamic supremacist historical revisionism”.

Interestingly, on the same day that I read Geller’s comments, I received an anti-Muslim email titled “Muslim Heritage in America?” which opened with Have you ever been to a Muslim hospital, heard a Muslim orchestra, seen a Muslim band march in a parade, witnessed a Muslim charity, shaken hands with a Muslim Girl Scout, seen a Muslim Candy Striper, or seen a Muslim do anything that contributes positively to the American way of life ????  The answer is no, you did not. Just ask yourself WHY ???.  It then claims that Muslims never contributed anything to America, never fought in any of our wars, never participated in the civil rights movement, etc.  It then went on to pretty much repeat the Can a good Muslim be a good American email that goes around every year or so.  Except for the Muslim band marching in a parade, I have seen all of these things.

Geller’s comments (picked up and spread by the Islamophobia echo chamber on the web), and this email are part of the Islamophobes ongoing campaign to paint American Muslims as “the other”, and not part of American history, or for that matter part of American society at all.  Some time ago, I wrote an article Muslims are a part of our American heritage discussing the long history of Muslims in America.  That article clearly shows that they are wrong on all counts.

Whether or not Jibril Hough’s comments are accurate historically is certainly a matter of debate for historians.  There are many theories about Norse, Irish (St. Brendan) **, Chinese, Phoenician, African, Arab, Japanese, etc. groups having reached North or South America prior to Columbus. **  None of these claims can be proven absolutely, and some have more evidence than others to be considered as possibilities.  There is certainly no supremacism involved in believing that any of these might be true.

1492, the year of Columbus’ voyage was the same year that Ferdinand and Isabella completed the Reconquista and captured Granada. At that time Muslims and Jews were given a choice to either convert, go into exile, or face the Inquisition.  Among both communities some became Moriscos (Muslims) or Marranos (Jews) who chose “conversion” to Christianity.  In some cases they were actually converts, but more often only pretended to convert in order to save themselves.

There have been many claims by both the Jewish and Muslim communities that there were Moriscos and/or Marranos who were on Columbus voyages.  In fact, some have even claimed that Columbus himself was a Marrano **.

Some of those who have been identified as Morisco/Marrano are:  Luis Torres, a translator Columbus brought along to speak to people in the Far East (where he thought he was going) and who spoke Hebrew and Arabic **, Rodrigo de Triana, Maestre Bernal, Pedro Alonzo Nino, etc.  **

It would certainly not be outside the realm of possibility that Moriscos and/or Marranos were among those who sailed with Columbus.  Although both categories of people were forbidden to emigrate to the “New World” by Spanish law, Paul Lunde wrote a lengthy article explaining how this was probably overcome in the article Muslims And Muslim Technology In The New World.

Another academic article Turks, Moors, & Moriscos in Early America: Sir Francis Drake’s Liberated Galley Slaves & the Lost Colony of Roanoke by Umar Faruq Abd-Allah, Ph.D. discusses

One very unusual and little-known event took place at the dawn of American colonial history in 1586. That year, Sir Francis Drake (1540-1596), the famous English seaman, discoverer, and privateer, brought at least two hundred Muslims (identified as Turks and Moors, which likely included Moriscos) to the newly established English colony of Roanoke on the coast of present-day North Carolina. The Roanoke settlement was England’s first American colony and constitutes the first chapter of English colonial history in the New World and what ultimately became the history of the United States. Only a short time before reaching Roanoke, Drake’s fleet of some thirty ships had liberated these Muslims from Spanish colonial forces in the Carribbean.  They had been condemned to hard labor as galley slaves.

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf wrote in an article Five myths about Muslims in America

Historians estimate that up to 30 percent of enslaved blacks were Muslims. West African prince Abdul Rahman, freed by President John Quincy Adams in 1828 after 40 years in captivity, was only one of many African Muslims kidnapped and sold into servitude in the New World. In early America, Muslim names could be found in reports of runaway slaves as well as among rosters of soldiers in the Revolutionary War. Muslims fought to preserve American independence in the War of 1812 and for the Union in the Civil War.

Karoline P. Cook, Ph.D. did a thesis at Princeton University titled Forbidden crossings: Morisco emigration to Spanish America, 1492—1650.  Here is the abstract:

During the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, emigration to Spanish America was restricted legally to old Christians, individuals who could prove they had been Catholic for at least three generations. Due to Spanish authorities’ preoccupations with spreading religious orthodoxy, Moriscos or Iberian Muslims, many of whom had been forcibly baptized at the beginning of the sixteenth century, were prohibited from settling in Spanish America. But these laws, like so many others during the period, were not fully enforced. Frequent royal decrees prohibiting Morisco emigration have led many historians to assume that no or very few Moriscos settled in Spanish America. However, the existence of a rich parallel historiography concerning Spanish and Portuguese conversos in the New World, who were subject to the same legislation as Moriscos, suggests that individuals evaded the restrictions by a variety of means and settled in the forbidden territories. Through a careful analysis of colonial legislation, inquisitorial records and court cases I analyze how Morisco emigrants negotiated their status, religious practices and relationships in a transatlantic context. I examine the influence of the purity of blood statutes that permeated local conflicts over status and honor, the role of the Inquisition in enforcing religious orthodoxy and the jurisdictional difficulties inquisitors and local officials faced.

Following the lines drawn by colonial authorities, many historians of Spanish America have assumed that the idealized legal and social entities, the Republic of Spaniards and the Republic of Indians, remained separate. Recent studies show that Spaniards and indigenous peoples interacted on a daily level more than was previously acknowledged. They have also challenged the unified legal category “Indian,” by recognizing the diverse peoples who were designated by this label. My research questions the category of Spaniard in similarly rigorous ways, troubling its implication of an “old Christian” who possessed purity of blood and formed part of a unified Catholic society. I demonstrate that the presence of Moriscos and Muslims in the Spanish Americas, as well as the circulation of knowledge about them, complicates notions of what it meant to be a Spaniard and part of an early modern Spanish world.

The first Jew to be identified as such entering America was Joachim Gans in 1584. Some people would argue that the first Jew was Luis de Carabajal y Cueva, a Spanish conquistador and converso, who first set foot in what is now Texas in 1554. **

Estevan of Azamor (or Estevanico) may have been the first Muslim to enter the historical record in North America. Estevanico was a Berber originally from North Africa who explored the future states of Arizona and New Mexico for the Spanish Empire in the 1530’s. **

Read the rest…

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    • George Carty

      Reynardine, the ironic thing is that Muslim Columbus couldn’t have happened!

      If the Americas didn’t exist, it would not be possible for a 15th century ship to carry enough food and other supplies to permit a direct journey from Western Europe to East Asia. Columbus’s claim to be able to reach the Orient by sailing west was based on a gross underestimate for the circumference of the Earth. This couldn’t have happened in a Muslim country as the true circumference of the Earth was common knowledge in Muslim societies at the time.

      If the Reconquista had failed, any discovery of the Americas by Muslims would be more analogous to Cabral than Columbus (ie ships sailing south in the Atlantic being blown off course to Brazil).

    • mjasghar

      I remember an Antiques Roadshow from the Carribean – some guy came in with a helmet he had found buried somewhere – clearly was an early muslim one – the mail neckguard and pointy top kind. The fact is historians never really research this stuff as most are western and not interested in it. So people assume it didn’t happen.

    • Reynardine

      I’d also point out that most of the navigational instruments of Columbus’s day were of Moorish origin. It also appears that there were many more Saracens than Christians who understood that the Earth is round.

    • Reynardine

      As an ESOL instructor at a well-known language school, I had South American students with surnames like Del Zaide and Abuchaibe, and a Venezuelan student with a Spanish surname whose resemblance to Saddam Hussein was eerie.

    • HGG

      We, of course, still bear the heavy influence of Don Luis Carvajal y de la Cueva, given he was our founder. Something I didn’t know until I was in college is that our most famous dish, ‘cabrito’ comes from his Jewish heritage.

    • Anthony DiMattei

      I live in Bayridge Brooklyn tell Miss Geller the first person to settle this part ok Brooklyn Was man named Von Antony Saleh from Morroco

    • mindy1

      Interesting bit of history

Pamela Geller Watch: Ties Gas Tanker Explosion in Congo to Electoral Violence in Nigeria

Update: It looks like the myth that Geller was pushing some months ago about Muslim hordes incinerating Nigerian Christians is resurfacing once again, this time on Facebook. Below is our post exposing the absurd falsity of attempting to pass the Congo gas tanker explosion as an example of Nigerian sectarianism.

******************

Professional hate blogger Pamela Geller is going to be exposed once again in the following article. She is going to be exposed pretty brutally.

We know about her vitriolic hate and twisting of truth quite well now. Her claims that Obama is the love child of Malcolm X, that he was born in Kenya, her calls to nuke Mecca, Medina, Tehran and to destroy the Golden Dome, her crusade against Campbell Soup’s “imminent Sharia’ take over,” etc.

We know her world is a twisted, vapid void in which honesty and intellect is frowned upon and viewed as frightening. Half the time I wonder if she isn’t asleep or on some hallucinogenic while typing away on her propaganda site, but this time she may have topped even her own crazy self.

Pamela is claiming in a blog titled, Nigeria: Muslim Hordes Mass Slaughter Christians that a gruesome picture is evidence of Muslim violence against Christians in Nigeria (be warned the picture is gruesome):

A terrible and horrifying picture indeed.

Pamela brags that she wrote about it “first” back on April 19, and then wonders “why” is America fighting in Libya to restore a “universal Caliphate?”

Huh??

It turns out however that the above picture is not evidence of some “Muslim rampage” in Nigeria! The charred bodies are a tragic result of a tanker explosion in the CONGO!! A whole other country the last time I checked! Here is the evidence from Afrik.com (I give you the Google translation since it was originally in French):

The explosion, on July 3, a tanker in the town of Sange, South Kivu, Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) has resulted in 235 deaths.

Here is the original French language report where you will also find more pictures: RDC : les images atroces du drame de Sange au Sud-Kivu

You will also see an interesting picture of Muslim UN soldiers, possibly from Pakistan helping to respond to the tragedy.

Here is a report from Reuters with some more pictures:

(Reuters) – At least 230 people were killed when a fuel tanker overturned and exploded in eastern Democratic Republic of Congo, unleashing a fire ball that tore through homes and cinemas packed with people watching World Cup soccer.

Officials said on Saturday the explosion late on Friday also injured 196 people, adding that the death toll could rise.

They described scenes of devastation in the town of Sange, where houses were burned and bodies littered the streets. Some people died while trying to steal fuel leaking from the tanker, but most were killed at home or watching World Cup soccer in cinemas.

Many of the bodies were charred beyond recognition.

United Nations helicopters began airlifting injured people to hospital, while Congo’s army, which lost a number of men in the blast, has sent soldiers in to help with the rescue.

“Our latest numbers are 230 dead and 196 injured,” Madnodje Mounoubai, a spokesman for the U.N. mission, said. Congo’s government also gave the same number of dead.

Marcellin Cisambo, governor of South Kivu province, where the incident took place, said the blast occurred when the fuel truck overturned, leaked fuel and then later exploded.

It was not immediately clear what caused the initial accident or later blast, but local people said the truck, which was part of a convoy, stopped when the road seemed to crumble, toppling the vehicle and spilling fuel. Fire then erupted.

“It’s a terrible scene. There are lots of dead bodies on the streets. The population is in terrible shock — no one is crying or speaking,” Jean-Claude Kibala, South Kivu’s vice governor, said from Sange, which is between the towns of Bukavu and Uvira.

“We are trying to see how we can coordinate with (the U.N.) to manage the situation and how to take the wounded to hospital,” he added.

TANKER ACCIDENTS

Roads in the area are notoriously bad after years of war and neglect in the vast central African nation.

“Some people were killed trying to steal the fuel, but most of the deaths were of people who were indoors watching the (World Cup) match,” Cisambo said.

There have been numerous similar accidents across Africa, where crowds gather around fuel tankers involved in crashes, only for the tanker to explode.

Millions of football fans across Africa were watching Ghana, the continent’s last team in the World Cup, play Uruguay in the quarterfinals of the tournament on Friday evening.

For many, who have no electricity at home, makeshift cinema halls are the only option for watching the football.

“My children were watching the football match in the cinema and then they ran out to see the petrol,” said Kiza Ruvinira, who lost three children and his sister-in-law in the blast.

“I went out to see what happened and I found my three children’s bodies myself. I don’t know how to go on.”

Mubaya Mumasura also lost three family members: “I don’t know what to do with myself I am so sad. I want the government to assist all the victims and help us.”

Congo’s weak government has difficulty providing even the most basic services, so U.N. peacekeepers began airlifting some of the wounded to nearby hospitals and aid workers were called in to help with medical treatment.

“The national Red Cross is working on collecting the bodies and taking them to the morgue, but the priority is obviously to take the wounded to the hospital,” International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) coordinator Inah Kaloga told Reuters.”

Kaloga said aid workers were trying to identify bodies before they were buried, but many were completely charred.

“It’s a catastrophe,” said Captain Olivier Hamuli,” spokesman for Congo’s military operation in South Kivu, adding that 13 soldiers had been injured and another 10 were missing.

The Kenyan driver of the truck is being held by the police.

Alain Ilunga, deputy CEO of Congo’s storage and distribution company, which is already investigating the incident, said the truck was carrying 49,000 liters of petrol at the time.

(Writing by David Lewis; editing by Ralph Boulton)

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    • rezanno

      People like pamela geller and r. spencer are the shayateen (devils)of the modern age.Unfortunately there are many who go along with them. Muslims have to be on their guard and ever alert for such evil thrash of society. Billions are being spent to spoil the image of Islam and Muslims in this world. Propganda in the form of books, articles, videos,radio talks, speeches etc have been organised by the White Christian evangelist societies of the US and Europe. The funny thing is Muslims are increasing more and more in number! More and more women especially in the West are converting themselves to Islam. Mashallah!

    • in congo zionist jews like dan gertler are plundering diamonds by using slave labour. Mercenaries are hired by mining companies and diamond companies like de beers. Dan gertler is israel mafia boss, oh i mean businessman. dr robert spencer and pamela geller obviously wont report on those stories. It will damage israels public image. Stealing land and killing palestinian arabs is fine.

Fisher Price: Islam is the Light Baby Doll?

A blast from the past. Around Christmas time 2008 a doll was being sold by Fisher Price that cooed and gaga’d but through the power of suggestion some started to believe that the doll was saying, “Islam is the light,” but if you listen closely you could make it out to say anything:

Spencer and other Islamophobes jumped on this at the time and put it forward as another instance of the insidious creeping Jihad. One of Texas’s finest, Pastor David Grice extrapolated that the doll was a sign of “us” being “under attack religiously,” strangely he also saw a foreign Chinese conspiracy involved as well:

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    • That doll makes more sense than old Robert Spencer, Pam Geller, and the rest of their crazy Islamophobic brethren.

    • LaRoja

      What the hell was this?

    • Just goes to show that for every nut on one side, you have nuts on the other with just as much ‘acceptance’.

      And yes, it is odd that these people ‘see’ Islam wherever they go… Obsession? Fear? Inferiority complex? Whatever it is they see it more than most Muslims!

  • Syed

    LOL! The doll is apparently a mooslem-loving, leftist-commie dhimmi

Joyce Kaufman: Islamophobe Inspires Follower to Violence

Islamophobes like to distance themselves from the actions of those they influence, but this story is a chilling reminder of the fall out of bigotry.

Woman Arrested for Threatening School Violence: FBI

The FBI’s Domestic Terrorism Group in Miami arrested a Florida woman Tuesday in connection with the November 10 violent email threat that lead to a massive lockdown of all Broward County schools for much of a day.

The US Attorney’s Criminal Complaint suggests the woman, Elissa Martinez, was inspired by Tea Party radio talk show host Joyce Kaufman of Fort Lauderdale and conservative GOP leader Sarah Palin.

In the complaint, the FBI says it traced the e-mail, sent to Kaufman vowing to use violence against schools and government buildings in Broward County to “make headlines” and “teach all the government hacks working there what the 2nd amendment is all about,” from Martinez’ computer at her home in New Port Richey, Florida. The FBI also traced a subsequent phone call to Kaufman’s radio station from Martinez’ cell phone.

Kaufman has told political rallies previously that “if ballots don’t work, bullets will,” and that individual citizens should become armed militias. The video clip of her rant has been broadcast widely. Kaufman claims her words were misrepresented, and that she was only trying to inspire people to vote.

But, the FBI says the e-mail, only portions of which have been released until now, began “dear ms. kaufman, i was so thrilled to see you speak in person for congressman elect west. i was especially exited to hear you encourage us to exercise our second amendment gun rights. i felt your plan to organize people with guns in the hills of Kentucky and else where was a great idea. i know that you know one election is not enough to take our country back from the illegal aliens, jews, muslims, and illuminati who are running the show. i am so glad you support people who think like me. I’m planning something big around a government building here in Broward County, maybe a post office, maybe even a school, i’m going to walk in and teach all the government hacks working there what the 2nd amendment is all about. Can I count on your help?”

The day before the incident, Kaufman was hired by newly-elected Congressman Allen West as Chief of Staff. Kaufman and West parted ways immediately after the incident.

The threatening e-mail also quoted Sarah Palin’s often used line, “what does Sarah say, don’t retreat, reload! Let’s make headlines girl!”

After the e-mail was received by Kaufman, her radio station got a call from a woman claiming her husband was going to shoot up a school in Plantation, Florida. The woman asked the station to air a plea to stop him. Police were called and school officials eventually locked down the entire school district, affecting tens of thousands of school kids and their anxious parents.

The Criminal Complaint says the FBI and other law enforcement went to Martinez’ home in New Port Richey and questioned her outside her home. She refused to let authorities into her home or to see her computer. She told them she knew nothing about the threats. She conceded she owned a cell phone with the number in question, but that she had left it in a restroom during the time in question while she was at a New Port Richey café called Starz.

Martinez was not taken into custody at that point and, somehow, managed to leave her home without police noticing. The FBI reviewed security camera video at the Starz Café and did not see Martinez during the crucial time frame.

Martinez, 48, was arrested Tuesday in Los Angeles. She may also own a home in Santa Monica, CA.

The e-mail also said near the end “we’ll end this year of 2010 in a blaze of glory for sure. thanks for your support mrs kaufman.”

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    • Sir David ( Illuminati membership number 5:32) Warning Contains Irony

      Nice one cynic my thoughts exactly Thank goodness for european gun laws. I have never had a gun but then the loons cannot get them either

    • Cynic

      Cheryl/Miss Manners anyone?

    • HGG

      “illegal aliens, jews, muslims, and illuminati”

      I see she’s an all around bigot who doesn’t doesn’t limit her hatred to a particular race or ethnicity. And she has enough hate left for fictional organizations.

    • Nur Alia

      Of course…She threatened Jews.

      Got to jump on that.

    • Robaby1984

      “dear ms. kaufman, i was so thrilled to see you speak in person for congressman elect west. i was especially exited to hear you encourage us to exercise our second amendment gun rights. i felt your plan to organize people with guns in the hills of Kentucky and else where was a great idea. i know that you know one election is not enough to take our country back from the illegal aliens, jews, muslims, and illuminati who are running the show…”

      Doesn’t that martinez women know that Kaufman is a jew?

    • Justin

      Direct evidence that violent rhetoric from talk-show hosts and celebrity politicians leads to real violence.

    • NassirH

      Like all Islamophobes, this woman is a tremendous failure when it comes to comprehending the Constitution.

    • mindy1

      The second amendment was not supposed to be used for random violence, what is wrong with this woman

Pamela Geller Falsely Claims Imam Rauf Made Comment “Blaming Jews” for 9/11

Plastic Pam or Catwoman?

Pamela Geller accused Imam Rauf of “blaming Jews for 9/11,” which is just more lies from her and her cronies. Media Matters exposes their lies.

Geller falsely claims Imam Rauf made comment blaming “the Jews” for 9-11

Pam Geller falsely claimed that Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who is heading an initiative to build an Islamic community center in Manhattan, once blamed “the Jews” for 9-11 and said, “If Americans only know it was the Jews’ fault, they would have done to the Jews what Hitler did.” But those comments have been widely attributed to Sheik Muhammed Gemeaha, a one-time imam at the Islamic Cultural Center in New York City who  reportedly made those inflammatory comments after resigning and returning to Egypt in 2001. Center officials roundly condemned the comments.

Geller accused Rauf of making the comments with the following headline:

rauf

But in a November 4, 2001, New York Times Magazine piece, Jonathan Rosen attributed the comments to Gemeaha: “Recently, I read an interview with Sheik Muhammad Gemeaha — who was not only the representative in the United States of the prominent Cairo center of Islamic learning, al-Azhar University, but also imam of the Islamic Cultural Center of New York City. The sheik, who until recently lived in Manhattan on the Upper West Side, explained that ‘only the Jews’ were capable of destroying the World Trade Center and added that ‘if it became known to the American people, they would have done to Jews what Hitler did.’ ” Gemeaha reportedly made his comments to the website www.lailatalqadr.com and translated excerpts were posted by the Middle East Media Research Institute.

As Rosen noted, by November 2001, Gemeaha no longer lived in New York City. The Times reported on October 23, 2001, that Gemeaha had “moved his family back to Cairo” and had “sent a letter of resignation to the mosque.” The Times further reported that members of the mosque’s board condemned his comments:

Neither The Times nor the sheik’s associates at the mosque in Manhattan were able to reach him in Cairo to ask him about the remarks attributed to him. But colleagues said that if he made the comments, they would be a dramatic turnaround for a Muslim leader who was a mainstay at interfaith events with New York’s rabbis and ministers.

”It does not represent at all the policy and the beliefs of the Islamic Cultural Center, nor what Imam Gemeaha was teaching the Islamic community during his three and a half years here,” said Mohammad Abdullah Abulhasan, Kuwait’s ambassador to the United Nations, who heads the mosque’s board. ”It really took me by surprise to see this.”

Rauf serves as a member of the Islamic Center’s board of trustees.

Geller has since updated her post. No longer directly attributing the comments to Rauf, Geller now excerpts the comments, attributes them to no one, and then purports to provide “more ugly dirt on radical Imam Rauf”:

rauf2

*Correction: I previously wrote that Gemeaha reportedly made the comments before resigning and returning to Egypt. I regret the error.

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    • Daniel

      What a lying trash bag site this is. You would be better titled Loons Watch.com

  • iSherif

    God bless President Barack Obama!

Peace be on you

Peace be on you

A backlash against imaginary perils

Jul 8th 2010 | Tulsa

THERE are only 30,000 Muslims in Oklahoma, a state of 3.7m people, making them well under 1% of the population. That’s still enough to worry some people, though. Rex Duncan, a Republican member of Oklahoma’s House of Representatives, has just had a measure placed on the November ballot that would ban local courts from considering sharia, or Islamic law, in their judgments, a dubious first for the nation.

Mr Duncan describes his proposed measure, which would also bar courts from considering any other forms of international law, as a “Save Our State” constitutional amendment. He cites Britain, and the alleged readiness of its courts to consider sharia (though in fact it is only applied in some civil and family cases when both parties agree, and the primacy of the law of the land remains paramount in all cases) as an example of how prevalent Islamic law might become. Mr Duncan calls it a “cancer upon the survivability of the UK”, and declares that “this is a war for the survival of America.”

The odd thing is that no one has ever proposed making appeals to sharia in America. But proponents of this and similar measures elsewhere point to the example of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg, who has sometimes cited foreign laws in her opinions on cases before the Supreme Court. Opponents worry that such a measure would bring into question any reference to English statute, for instance Blackstone’s useful “Commentaries on the Law of England”. Since the American legal system was originally based on English common law, that would be an inconvenience.

The latest ballot initiative is hardly unique. Oklahoma has become fertile ground for conservatives. In recent months legislators have also focused on tightening abortion rules and weakening those on guns. A new law forces women to view ultrasound images before their abortions; even Texas balked at that one last year. The ultrasound monitor is put in the patient’s line of sight, and she must also listen to a description of the fetus.

The Republican-controlled legislature also passed a law that would have made any firearms or ammunition manufactured in Oklahoma, and remaining in the state, immune to federal regulations, including federal registration requirements. But the Democratic governor, Brad Henry, vetoed that legislation.

United States

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    • One often overlooks that most of Shariah is not codified by Islamic textual laws but enforcement of current standard agreements and contracts based on the Islamic texts demanding that contracts and agreements be honored. Most contracts and laws are based on Urf – or custom. The contracts and agreements of 15th Century Arabia or Africa reflect those values, and the judges of the time said that those contracts and agreements HAVE to be honored based on the text of the quran and Sunnah. As the customs change, so do the contracts and agreements change, but the Shariah standard of HAVING to remain loyal to your contracts and agreements does not. One problem that has fossilized the “law books” in relation to Shariah is that “itjihad” or struggling with the texts was suspended in Sunni theology some time ago. Not all schools have done this and now may seem more progressive, but this is only an illusion. The rules of 18th century massachusetts were based on the same constitution we have today, but we are no longer able to take disobedient children to a judge to be tried for disobeying a parent and be put to death. The Shariah is just the end effect of Islamic constitutional law based on the quran (the constitution) and the practice (restricting and expanding as a bill of rights). To judge the standards of justice in my previous example by todays “itjihad” struggling with the text of our constitution might make some to believe that it is an archaic and outdated document that needs to be revisited and reformed.

      Classical scholars in both fields give the traditions depth, but if either are taken in snapshot in past history, they would be deemed out of date and almost barbaric.

      Reform – I dislike the idea. Reflourish – I Recommend.

      I am sure that we can go back in time and graphically see where the constitution has been either overlooked or misapplied based on custom of the time.

      Equal but separate maybe?

    • Adam

      CAIR is more concerned with the treatment of muslims than a political goal.

      Compare AIPAC to CAIR and you will notice FAR more political motives from AIPAC thatn CAIR.

    • In U.S. vs. Sabri Benkahla on page 58:

      “Moreover, from its founding by Muslim Brotherhood leaders, CAIR conspired with other affiliates of the Muslim Brotherhood to support terrorists. See Government’s Memorandum in Opposition to CAIR’s Motion for Leave to File a Brief. etc.. in United States vs. Holy Land Foundation . . . et 01, Cr. No. 3-04-cr-240-G (N.D. Tx. September 4, 2007. Proof that the conspirators agreed to use deception to conceal from the American public their connections to terrorists was introduced at both the Texas trial in 2007 and also at a Chicago trial the previous year. United States vs. Askqai-, el al.. No. 03-978 (N.D. 111.2006).”

      The assitant attorney general in Oklahoma write pro-CAIR pieces in the local newspaper. I am unaware he handles or has handled any hate crime.

    • ConcernedCitizen

      “Brandi” is sponsored by Ann Coulter and she has ties to Nazis.

      I love making random statements with no factual basis. Everyone should believe me because I’m special.

    • robaby

      Brandi, just because he meets with CAIR to deal with hate crime that your followers engage in doesn’t mean he wants to introduce Islamic law. Moreover, CAIR is not an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas, they are an independent group

    • Oklahoma is quite smart to bring this to a vote of the people. Already, there is an assistant attorney general there by the name of William F. O’Brien, who regularly shills for CAIR in the press. CAIR, an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas infrastructure, was brought in to Oklahoma by Muslim leaders there which seems to have caused a divide between the community and Muslims.

    • Adam

      When i say islamic constitution i do not mean sharia law, i mean something like the united states: A constitution based on judeo-christian values, but the governmetn it self is secular, and democratic. This is NOT the case with Iran(if anyone is thinking it) because in Iran,t he real power is with the Muftis. That is not what im talking about with an islamic democracy. Once a constitution is made, cannot be touched by any preist of any kind.

    • robaby

      Btw libertyphile, Islamic law was never created so that it could be applied to non-muslims, for instance in Iran today, non-muslims are allowed to drink alcohol and sell it. I don’t know where you got the notion that Islamic law is supposed to be applied on non-muslims? They have the choice to choose Islamic law or their own laws in Malaysia, Indonesia, Iran, etc.

    • Adam

      @LIbertyphile

      Im not talking about bringing Sharia to north america. Very few muslims want that. Afterall, it isn’t exactly our country.

      Im talking an islamically based constitution in saudi arabia instead of a crappy monarchy, or an islamically based constition in Iran instead of Islamic law, an islamically based constitution in syria instead of a repressive regime. Would be alot better than what they already have, in predominantly muslim countries. The discomfort non-muslims would feel under a n islamically based consititution under an islamic democracy would be the same as muslims feel in north america, which is minimal discomfort. but tahts just conjecture so who knows.

    • robaby

      @Libertyphile

      How women fare correlates directly with how society fares overall. The complex and appalling stream of news reports describing Muslim women being punished under Islamic law for everything from wearing pants to not having sex with their husbands to being raped cannot be ignored. Muslim women around the world are being disproportionately abused using outdated Islamic rulings and ages-old customs, while men who commit the same actions often go free.

      At the same time, many small but important victories for women in the Muslim world have been won. In the last decade, women in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Morocco, Bahrain and Qatar have won political and legal reforms that would have been considered unthinkable a decade before.

      There must be awareness-raising campaigns in the United States and Europe about human rights violations committed against women. Ultimately, the realization of women’s rights in the Muslim world will require a multigenerational, cross-societal commitment to social change; the political will of international leaders, and the continued bravery of women who have fought, argued, lobbied, schemed, pushed, and badgered for women to enjoy life with dignity.

      This brief paper(http://www.mpac.org/publications/abusing-women-abusing-islam/abusing-women-abusing-islam.pdf) is an effort to expose how patriarchal and distorted interpretations of sharia have been used to subjugate women and rob them of their fundamental rights, in direct opposition to the central teachings of Islam. It is our hope that this analytical framework will provide diplomats, aid workers, and Muslims themselves with some crucial theological tools to be able to argue for the equal status of women using an Islamic framework.

    • LibertyPhile

      eslaporte

      I don’t know about Saudi Arabia but I suggest you have a look at the website of the UK Islamic Sharia Council where you will find a full explanation of why a woman’s testimony is worth half that of a man’s. See http://www.islamic-sharia.org/general/on-the-testimony-of-women-2.html

      The UK Islamic Sharia Council also charges a fee for Muslims seeking a divorce, the fee for a man is £100 and for women it is £250 because (they say) it is more work to process a woman’s application as her word has to be corroborated.

      Equality, Eh!

      You might also like to know that judges in the House of Lords found Sharia law rules on child custody to be ‘arbitrary and discriminatory’. (M (Lebanon) v Home Secretary ([2008] UKHL 64).

      Also here in the UK, a Family Court judge may find himself presented with an “agreement” produced at a Sharia council that gives custody of the children to the father which in normal circumstances the court would register and enforce. But how is the judge to tell if this is a truly mediated agreement or simply the woman’s resigned acquiescence in Sharia law which does not explicitly consider the interests of children?

      By recognizing Sharia councils as tribunals the UK authorities are saying it is fine for some British citizens to not exercise certain rights, even if UK law and tradition gives them those rights, and to accept deals that are worse than what they would get from UK courts with regular judges.

      Rights are established for the good of society as a whole, and they are often achieved only after a long and hard struggle, so why should a particular group of people be allowed to ditch any of those rights, against the wider interest of society?

      Why should there be two “justice systems”?

      They can only be a barrier to integration and encourage voluntary apartheid (segregation).

      For a summary of the UK situation have a look at: http://libertyphile2.blogspot.com/2010/01/one-law-for-all-yes-and-no.html

    • LibertyPhile

      Adam

      The point I am making in my analysis is that Islamic reform (as described by Esposito) is feeble and ineffective.

      Part of the problem is the need (as Muslims see it) for historical continuity and, for some, a belief that things were better in some distant past. Also, as I see it, there might be some flaws in the original product!!

      Regarding your view:

      I don’t expect answers (as you say, it is a different discussion) but what about all those people who are not Muslims? Why should they live by so-called Islamic PRICIPLES some of which they might not like? What is wrong with your present constitution?

    • Adam

      LibertyPhile:

      I read some of your analysis. You oversimplify extremists. 18 century is VERY recent. You thinking it’s a long time ago based upon your own lifespan.

      But as a historic movement, Wahabi/salafism is recent. Not only that, but it is not inherently violent(though it can be)

      Espisito is right. But when you look at the medieval time sharia was applied, it was far more human than many of the surrounding nations. I do not think it has a place today, i think we should have an islamic democracy(constitution based on islamic PRINCIPLES rather than set law)

      but thats a different discussion….

    • islamispeace

      Well, what else can we expect from rednecks? [Holds chin and ponders…]

    • Sharia law is not the same practice in the Western world as it is in places like Saudi Arabia. The Islamophobes (who ultimately want to ban Islam and tell Muslims their can’t practice their faith – and treat them as second class citizens) like to bring up harsh Sharia laws in places like Saudi Arabia. Yes – there are abuses of Sharia in places like Saudi Arabia – but it should be unacceptable to constantly point to Saudi Arabia and say “this is how Sharia will be practiced by Muslims in the West.” It will not…

      The fail to mention that Sharia is not practiced the same in ALL Muslim communities. The intrupertations and practice of Sharia are as diverse as Muslim communities its practiced in.

      First of all, here’s a Tufts University, comparative study of the legal view of domestic violence responses between Saudi Arabia and Morocco. Since Morocco has more experience with the French legal code, it has incorporated it into its own legal code, along with Sharia law. http://fletcher.tufts.edu/al_nakhlah/archives/Spring2009/WomenandtheLawinIslamicSocieties.pdf

      Here is the study of Sharia code practice in the Netherlands, by the Dutch justice ministry, which would leave Geert Wilders sobbing out in the cold. http://english.wodc.nl/images/1900_Summary_tcm45-266259.pdf

      Dutch Muslims practice Sharia law mainly as it relates to conflict resolution among “those concerned.” It is also a code for daily life as a Muslim. It is a mistake to state that Sharia is practiced the same everywhere, with the same harshness as Saudi Arabia – and that Muslims want to “impose it on others.”

      QUOTE from Page 3: “Respondents did not express a concrete desire to have sharia introduced in an official capacity in the Netherlands, as many of the sharia rules which respondents deemed of importance can already be carried out within Dutch law. More‐over, a majority of respondents maintained that sharia decrees that Muslims must follow the law in force where they live or, should this pose insurmountable problems, move away.

      Nonetheless respondents perceived a normative and regulating role for sharia in the Netherlands. Government, some respondents feel, is missing out by not using the opportunities sharia offers to, for instance, safeguard the position of Islamic women who divorced their husbands according to Dutch law, by also arranging a divorce according to sharia. Also, religious authorities could assist by confronting criminal Muslims over the latter’s behaviour and fear of God.” —

    • Ohh – let me say this too: This is, indeed a “war for the survival of America and the West

      –it’s a war for the survival of our freedoms and liberties, like the freedom of religion, as well as freedom of expression and speech.

      Mr. Duncan, like Geert Wilders – is the REAL threat to our freedom and liberties. If they tell Muslims what and how they can practice Islam, what other religious group will they target next.

      It’s anti-freedom tyrants like Mr. Duncan that are the threat to the survival of America and the West!

    • Of one of the many phony – and outright lies – that Geert Wilders is attempting to pass off is that sharia law is “taking over the Netherlands.” Sutch is futher from the truth! This was found to be outright false by a recent study which points out that sharia law is practiced among some Dutch Muslims, their families and spiritual leaders. There is NO desire for Dutch Muslims to force sharia law on others! This is true for other places in the Western world…

      So – are this ignorant Islamophobes going to enter the personal relationships between Muslims and their spiritual leaders and tell them “you can’t do that?!”

      Not only are they attempting to tamper with the freedom of religion – which is none of their business – but now attempting to get in a relationship between people and their spiritual leaders!

      Is the canon law of the Catholic Church next?

      This is about people calling themselves “freedom loving patriots” attempting to – once again – tamper with others’ freedoms and liberties!

    • LibertyPhile

      This is what Professor John Esposito has to say about Shariah in his recent book “The Future of Islam”

      “Islamic law (Shariah) is often portrayed as a medieval legal system used by religious zealots to oppress women and deny human rights for Muslims and non-Muslims alike. There are good reasons for this perception. Islamic …. has been used to restrict women’s rights and to mandate stoning of women charged with adultery, amputating the limbs of thieves, and prosecuting any Muslim who tries to convert to another religion for apostasy.(p40)”

      “Women in the West often link what they believe is the unequal status of Muslim women to the Shariah, and with good cause. While Islamic law served as an idealized blueprint and moral compass for early Muslim communities, today it is used as an instrument of patriarchal and tribal repression by retrogressive ulama and fundamentalists, most recently in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Pakistan, and the Talibans Afghanistan, drawing widespread international criticism and condemnation. (p154)”

      For more on Esposito’s analysis regarding Shariah see this review of his book: http://libertyphile2.blogspot.com/2010/06/espositos-future-of-islam.html

    • mindy1

      BTW, I think i meant to say Halakah courts :p

    • mindy1

      Out of curiosity, IF sharia were to ever be implemented, how would it work? Because, when you live in Orthodox Jewish areas, they have halachiac Jewish courts to render family, divorce and other family type matters. Is that how that would work in the U.S.?

    • David

      Such a bill would not hold up, anyway. Shariah courts are voluntary, as are beis din, Jewish courts, and function like out-of-court arbitration. If shariah courts go, so must the battei din. Or if sharia courts go, but battei din can stay, a legal challenge would kill it. Or, more likely, the Jewish community would finally step up and defend religious courts with no legal status — which is all this stupid fricking furor is about, anyway.

      Sheesh.

    • Adam

      I disagree with the left and it’s containment of guns. Gun laws tend to be made by those who know nothing about guns. Im not saying we shoudl all have nuclear weapons in our backyards, but atleast let those who know about guns and can handle them make the laws.

      Im a proud muslim as well, i dislike the american right. But Guns should not always be regarded as a rightwing thing, unfortuantly.

Debbie Schlussel and the Great Blog Wars

Debbie Schlussel

Debbie Schlussel

The continuing internet blog wars amongst the anti-Muslims and Islamophobes have been quite funny and interesting for all that they reveal about the agendas driving them.  It was only a matter of time before the fault lines began to appear amongst a group for whom it will be noted (a piece in the future) were really only united by a hate for Islam and Muslims, and in which their real motivations were self-aggrandizement coupled with hatred of the other.

Some bloggers such as Charles Johnson of Little Green Football’s have calmed their rhetoric and focused on other subjects such as science and local politics, while Robert Spencer and his allies have continued their hatred unabated, though stung by the increasing irrelevance of their movement in the Obama age. Who knows how long this will last or the eventual outcome of the Great Blog Soap Opera?

Yet, the fault lines were appearing earlier when in September of 2008 Debbie Schlussel, a well known Islamophobe came out strongly against both Walid Shoebat calling him a “fake terrorist” and Steven Emerson who she described as a “phony.”  All these are welcome contributions to the exposition of the loons and may have softened the image of Schlussel as an Islamophobe in the minds of some if it weren’t for the fact that her motivation in exposing these two wasn’t pure ego.

She was compelled to reluctantly spill the truth about these two for the simple reason that in the case of Shoebat he “cursed her out” and failed to cite the use of Schlussel’s work. So no one should fall under the illusion that her turn of face in exposing these two was motivated by a cathartic realization that they are haters, it was all personal and business — not principles.

In other news the Los Angeles Times has taken Schlussel to task for saying that the recent Ron Howard directed movie Angels and Demons was soft on Muslim Terrorists. Patrick Goldstein aptly describes Schlussel as, “a trigger happy anti-Muslim zealot.”

Just when Ron Howard thought he was in the clear, having avoided being attacks by the Vatican for any anti-Catholic story lines in his upcoming “Angels and Demons,” he now finds himself under fire from the one and only Debbie Schlussel. Revered as a truth-teller in conservative circles, the blogger-critic is actually a trigger-happy anti-Muslim zealot — she went nuclear last year when “Defiance” Ed Zwick director refused to condemn Hamas — who’s now taking aim at “Angels and Demons,” which she (big surprise) thinks is soft on Muslim terrorists.

How did the Howard-directed thriller go from being anti-Catholic to pro-Muslim? According to early press reports, Howard apparently changed the identity of an assassin, who is Muslim in the Dan Brown bestseller, to someone who is now Danish. For the rest of us, this is — how should I put it — not such a big deal. But for Schlussel? She writes:

“Over the years, I’ve written about the many movies in which Hollywood changes the villain or the terrorist in the original script or novel from a Muslim to something else out of politically correct deference to Islam, the religion of whiners (and ultimately, murderers). Now, Hollywood continues in this tradition. … I’m already learning that [‘Angels and Demons’] has been ‘disinfected’ by Islamopanderers (director Ron Howard) not wanting to upset our dear friends in the ‘Religion of Peace,’ who might do something ‘peaceful’ if the movie had stayed true to the book.”

This is just part of a prolonged Schlussel shame campaign, often based on the flimsiest of evidence, to belittle Hollywood for not treating Muslims as wild-eyed villains. In one of her classic posts, she attacked Marvel Comics for giving academic internships to Arab students from the United Arab Emirates, using that as evidence to support her outrageous claim that “Spider-Man and the Hulk are embracing the new Nazis.” She also recently ridiculed the Wall Street Journal for allowing one of its reporters (“with a Muslim-sounding first name”) to write admiringly about a Muslim author doing a DC comic book.

I don’t exactly have a direct line to Ron Howard to talk to him about his casting process. But here’s my suggestion: The next time Howard does a Dan Brown thriller, if there’s a good part for a terrorist, I think he oughta make sure Debbie Schlussel gets first crack at the job.

As Goldstein points out this isn’t the first time that Schlussel has supposedly “uncovered” a so called nefarious Muslim plot against the West — it is a trademark of her paranoid writing. When the Virginia Tech Massacre occurred, the police told the press that the shooter was an “Asian male” Schlussel was quick to tie it to Muslims, saying in a racist screed that “Pakis are considered ‘Asian,’” and that it could be “part of a co-ordinated terrorist plot by Pakistanis.”

Later when it was revealed that the shooter was a student of Korean background and that he authored a play titled Ismail Ax, she continued to attempt to tie the massacre to Muslims, insisting that the Muslim sounding name of Ismail in the play penned by the murderer was enough to conclude that he was a “secret” Muslim and that Islam was to blame.

Needless to say this was rejected by the police as it was obvious that the murderer had no ties to Islam or Muslims. Even more egregious, the ironic fact lost on Schlussel that Muslims died in the massacre.

The case of Debbie Schlussel, a certified trigger happy anti-Muslim highlights the absurdity of the loon blogsphere. All of them have bigger egos than the other and they are willing to throw one another under the bus if it suits them.  It kind of reminds one of the statement “There is no honor amongst thieves” reworked as “There is no honor amongst Islamophobes.”

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    • GuestOfGuests

      “She forgot that the Palestinian people had the same roots and they are the semitics too.”

      I stopped reading here simply because you have no knowledge of antisemitism whatsoever (let it be the term itself or the history of the term, or its meaning).

    • A Logical Response

      2% of Americans are Muslims, so how the hell could Sharia Law get even close to coming to America? Xenophobia at its best.

    • Kirook

      @William

      Evidence please?

    • hack

      Debbie Schlussel’s idiotic screeds get lost in translation. Try reading it in the original German sometime.

    • Marc

      Actually Schlussel is writing a new Europe history. Why is she doing that? She always needs create and “discover” later a new “antisemitic” people, by insulting them first and attacking later. If you try to say NO to what is she doing, actually writing, she treats you as an antisemitic. She forgot that the Palestinian people had the same roots and they are the semitics too.

      About the second WW she should know this:

      “The Polish people were classified by the Nazis according to their racial characteristics. The ones who appeared Aryan were deported to Lodz for further racial examination. Most of the others were sent to the Reich to work in slave labor camps. The rest were sent to Auschwitz to die. Polish Christians and Catholics were actually the first victims of the notorious German death camp. For the first 21 months after it began in 1940, Auschwitz was inhabited almost exclusively by Polish non-Jews. The first ethnic Pole died in June 1940 and the first Jew died in October 1942.

      Three million were Polish Christians and Catholics. It would be very sad to forget even one precious life extinguished so ruthlessly. It would be a tragedy to forget five million.”

      Source: http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/

      “In November 1938, many Jews within Germany decided that it was time to leave. Though many German Jews had emigrated in the preceding years, the Jews who remained had a more difficult time leaving the country because emigration policies had been toughened. By 1939, not only were visas needed to be able to enter another country but money was also needed to leave Germany. Since many countries, especially the United States, had immigration quotas, visas were near impossible to acquire within the short time spans in which they were needed. For many, the visas were acquired after it was too late.”

      Source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/stlouis.html

      When they reached Havana on May 30, however, the Cuban government refused to recognize their entrance visas. None of the passengers were allowed to disembark. Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay and Panama were approached in vain, by various Jewish organizations. Within two days all the countries of Latin America had rejected entreaties to allow these Jews to land, and on June 2 the St. Louis was forced to leave Havana harbour. The last hope was Canada or the United States, and the latter, not bothering to reply to an appeal, sent a gunboat to shadow the ship as it made its way north.

      In Canada, Prime Minister Mackenzie King felt, that this was not a “Canadian problem,” ignoring the pleas of many influential Canadians. Frederick Charles Blair, director of the Immigration Branch of the Department of Mines and Resources said, “No country, could open its doors wide enough to take in the hundreds of thousands Jewish peolpe who want to leave Europe: the line must be drawn somewhere.

      Source: http://www.vaniercollege.qc.ca/events/holocaust04/st_louis.html

      Talking about visas in this particular period? Those people tried escape a real danger! Did the Jews, from the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee help them? There was no dead risk saving the Jews, as in Poland. Can she imagine how those people felt being refused? Does she know how many Poles died, because of hidden Jews? Tried do something? You should read more about Jewish history! She should be ashamed!!!

      Polish citizens have the world’s highest count of individuals awarded medals of Righteous among the Nations, given by the State of Israel to non-Jews who saved Jews from extermination during the Holocaust. As of 2011, there are 6,266[1] Polish men and women recognized as “Righteous” to this day, amounting to over 25 per cent of the total number of 22,765 honorary titles awarded already. It is estimated by one study that hundreds of thousands of Poles concealed and aided hundreds of thousands of their Polish-Jewish neighbors.[4] Many of these initiatives were carried out by individuals, but there also existed organized networks of Polish resistance who was dedicated to aiding Jews—most notably, the Żegota organization. In German-occupied Poland the task of rescuing Jews was especially difficult and dangerous. All household members were punished by death if a Jew was found concealed in their home or on their property. One study estimates of the number of Poles who were killed by the Nazis for aiding Jews, among them 704 posthumously honored with medals, as high as tens of thousands. An other interresting page: http://www1.yadvashem.org/yv/en/about/index.asp

      Marc

    • Pol

      This women is sick, I have no idea why someone gives her credit for anything she wrote! Any legit paper that publishes her articles or opinions is just as valuable as trash! I have doubt she graduated from high school, because she has no clue regarding history, her latest version is that Poles killed Jews not Germans. I am canceling my subscription to NY Times, Washington Post & Wallstreet, because of that mental fruitcake!

    • Ron Wolf

      In Vietnam there was the expression “Spray and Pray” referring to holding your inadequate M-16 over your shoulders while safe in your foxhole or embankment and letting loose in the general direction of the enemy. All of us have been guilty of this at one time or another “metophorically”, especially in our profligate use of the pronouns “they”,”them”, and “those”, while not identifying the enemy per se. Debbie, however is not paranoid. The fifth colomn is alive and well in this never ending war of propaganda, and the use of political correctness as a handcuff has been used by a certain religion naming Jews as the enemy to be killed since its inception, and has historically expanded the call to convert or die to all infidels from the times of the Crusades to present. I prefer to look at Debbie’s successes that greatly outnumber her blunders. We all know what “they” prefer you to look at. I implore you to finacially support Debbie in the recent frivilous lawsuit launched by CAIR a fifth column home grown supporter of terror disguised in sheeps clothing and unmasked for what it is by Debbie Schlussel, who is finding as I found out how our own legal system can be against us by a clever and implacable foe, all in the name of political correctness.

    • nat

      @ Haec Dies

      Where have Muslims attacked the Constitution, and could you please give examples of the what you mean when you say you’re trying to stop Sharia Law? Look forward to a dialogue with you.

      All the best.

    • Haec Dies

      I dont know how I came upon this site. I have studied Apologetics to Islam. I am also involved in groups trying to stop Sharia Law and also the rise of attacks on our constitution. I am shocked by this site. I am more over shocked that you are all Americans. I really hope you are all studying the idealogy of extreme Islam in America. The Sharia Law that is trying to rear its ugly head here in the states. It is Americans like you that make it hard for us that are truly fighting this. You are only going after the people that are out there and being the strongest voices. I am not in these peoples groups like Pamella Geller or Robert Spencer and I know they have strong personalities but really to go out and call them Islamaphobes is way out of line. You need to stay focused if you are really in the big fight. I have to say really disgusted by this site and I look forward at making your name known among my very large circle because you are more counterproductive than even the Ground Zero Mosque Imam. Friendly fire is the worst ! Shame on you and your cohorts. I only hope you have a change of heart and start lashing out on the real enemy of the free world. I wish you the best.

    • john

      I blame TOM CRUISE for not saving these people by introducing them to SCIENTOLOGY surely these are the type that need it

    • To John Jackson – It’s been a good while since this article was printed and you made your comments; but in case you’re still checking the comments I’d like to respond to what you’ve said.

      I am a Christian – of a unitarian and liberal variety, not fundamentalist or evangelical – and I have come to have a great respect for Islam after doing my own research and reading in the Qur’an. I began looking into Islam after reading an e-mail that attacked Islam and the Qur’an because of the supposed ‘terrorist’ verses in that venerable book. When I started looking up the verses, I found that they are indeed in the Qur’an; but their contextual meaning is quite different from what terrorists and Islamophobes portray. I wrote the following article in my blog, which you might find of interest: http://mystic444.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/does-islam-proclaim-that-all-infidels-should-be-killed/.

      Being of a Christian background, I am very aware that all kinds of ridiculous things can be taught as being ‘Biblical’; and the verses quoted in support of the ridiculous tenets are certainly in the Bible (usually, at any rate). But that doesn’t mean the verses actually teach the ideas they are being quoted to prove. One needs to carefully read the verses in their contexts (both immediate context, and the wider context of the writer’s other writings and the writings of the other Biblical authors) in order to correctly understand what is being taught. One of my ‘pet peeves’ is the ‘Christian’ teaching that Jesus is the ‘One True God’, the ‘second Person in the Trinity’. Many verses are quoted to support this claim, but I am convinced that when these verses are carefully read in their contexts (both immediate and wider) they will always be found to show the writer considered Jesus as distinct from and subservient to God. They certainly believed that God had appointed Jesus to be “Lord” over His creation (sort of ‘commander-in-chief’ – under God – of all the armies of God and all creation), which is more that Muslims are willing to allow as I understand their beliefs. But the Christian writers did not believe Jesus was actually God. I have a number of articles in my blog on that subject also.

      At any rate, just because the verses terrorists use to support their actions are actually in the Qur’an, does not mean that terrorists have correctly understood those verses and are properly using them for support. Mainstream Islam repudiates terrorism, and recognizes that the Qur’an allows self defense, but never aggressive violence (and particularly not killing of innocents). Any ‘infidels’ to be killed are those who have themselves violently attacked Muslims first. Check out my blog article to which I referred, and read those Qur’anic verses in their contexts.

    • Vivek Golikeri

      My real reason for being aghast and unhappy with this woman Schlussel is my bitter memory of what was done to Japanese-Americans during World War Two. The difference between jihadists and Muslims as such is exactly the difference between being German and being Nazi.

      We need to walk a fine here in these dangerous times between legitimate security and shameless bigotry. David Ben-Gurion ( a truly great man ) once said “We shall fight the White Paper as if there no war, and the war as if there were no White Paper.”

      Likewise, we need to oppose bigotry as if there were no jihad, and jihad as if there were no bigotry.

    • DavTo

      Just came across this article. Goldstein says that Schlussel is “revered as a truth-teller in conservative circles.”

      Uh, no, actually, she’s held as a nutjob by most conservatives. She just calls herself a conservative. She’s actually a crazy liar…recently, she said on her site that she’s the subject of a “bogus complaint” by someone else. The Michigan Bar’s inevestigating her as a result. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. Careful you don’t criticize her too often, though–if you do, you’re obviously an anti-Semite. (She’s kinda like Uncle Leo in that episode of Seinfeld–“He even thinks his rabbi is an anti-Semite!”)

Santorumism of the Day: “Muslims speak Islamic”

[youtube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alymlxj9yaY 300 250]

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    • Goldberg

      Another story that truly exemplifies the loons’ doctoral level knowledge of Islam and the Quran. In any event, does anyone know where I can learn how to speak Islamic? Does Rosetta Stone make software to teach you how to speak Islamic?

    • Menot

      The problem with religions other than Islam, is that their books have been altered to fit with the times. Alot of Christians don’t believe in biblical laws and therefore only abide by parts of it to fit in, which is absurd. Islam only has one book and people tend to take them out of context. Now they go after hadith’s like Imam Bukhari, Imam Muslim etc. They don’t bother looking at the tafseers or anything. Christianity calls for the death of apostates but they’ll deny it when it’s clearly written right there. It’s sad how unintelligent and uninformed people can be. Sad, sad, sad.

    • sk8er_2U

      “you might get the language thing a little bit closer to right.” It is necessary that many terms are explained properly. Once everyone can, at least, speak in the same language, using the correct terms, imagine how much easier arguing would be. Quran is written in Arabic. Arabic is a language. Islam is a lifestyle or religion. Being Jewish is a religion. However, like being Muslim, many people will say they are Jewish because their parents are, though they don’t practice.

      Maddow is fair, “It’s not just Rick Santorum.” For Santorum, he should understand that only few see Islam as politics.

    • LOL, “Quran, is in Islamic.” One for the record books.

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