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Rep. Louie Gohmert, Rep. Steve King Invite Dutch Fascist Geert Wilders

"Under his wing": Geert Wilders & Robert Spencer

“Under his wing”: Geert Wilders & Robert Spencer

Geert Wilders is on his way to the US again, this time at the invitation of two US congressmen. He will also be awarding a prize at Pamela Geller and Deacon Robert Spencer’s “Draw Muhammad” contest in Texas. (h/t: WaltervanderCruijsen)

On Wednesday April 29th, he will speak at a reception offered to him by Congressman Louie Gohmert (R, TX).

That same day, he speaks at the invitation of Congressman Steve King (R, IA) at the breakfast meeting of members of the US Congress belonging to the renowned Conservative Opportunity Society, a group founded in 1984 by Newt Gingrich, former Speaker of the House of Representatives.

Wilders: “I feel deeply honored by the invitations. In my speeches I will warn my American colleagues of the dangers of Islamization.”

After his visit to Washington, Geert Wilders travels to Garland, Texas, where on May 3rd he will give a speech and award a prize of $10,000 for the best Muhammad cartoon.

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    • Jeff Elberfeld

      I wouldn’t call Geert Wilders “fascist.” Fascists had a vision on economic policies. Unlike them, evil Geert has nothing to offer on that field, apart from attacking everyone who is Polish, Greek, or from another coutry he doesn’t like. Also, fascists believe in Jewish conspiracies, whole Wilders believes in Muslem conspiracies.

      So is Wilders fascist? No. Is Wilders a populistic, mad, paranoid attention-whore? Yes.

    • Capt. JB Hennessy

      Muslims should claim they won the ten gees. Photoshop their image standing next to Geert with the check and then claim they donated to money to Hamas.

      On the other hand it may back fire, it might get more coverage then Geert arriving in some Southern state, I can’t remember it’s name. Probably a recent addition to the United States.

    • downwithpants

      Maybe instead of being a God fearing gun loving American he should try being a god loving gun fearing American.

  • The greenmantle

    Garland Texas yup another place never to go to

Rev. Deacon Robert Spencer’s Ally Pastor Usama Dakdok Wants Another 9/11

Pastor Usama Dakdok, Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer.

Pastor Usama Dakdok, Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer.

By Mooneye

Last week Will Coley of Muslims for Liberty was a featured guest on Liberty Radio Ohio for a discussion on the relationship between Islam, Muslims, America and politics. His interview is worth listening to and begins at 53:26 as he delves into many subjects and also responds to the guest who preceded him, Pastor Usama “Muslims are demons” Dakdok.

Dakdok is an extremist preacher and good friends with Rev. Deacon Robert Spencer. The interview was amazing for the sheer lunacy and vile hatred Dakdok was able to spew in just a few minutes.

The interview with Pastor Dakdok begins at 25:50, below are some of the “gems” he spewed in what essentially was a 25 minute tirade.


On CAIR. He thinks they wear wonderful suits:

Pastor Usama Dakdok: CAIR is a big lawyers here in America, they are here to literally take over America with a smile on the face wearing these wonderful suits and ties.

Pastor Dakdok believes religions are vegetables in a bowl of soup and Islam doesn’t fit into the soup because it’s poison.

Bill Yarborough: What should the place of religion be in America in relation to our government or political system?

Pastor Dakdok: Well brother there is a big difference when you say Atheism, Buddhism, Agnosticism whatever…and when you put Islam into it. It’s like me and you eating a dish of soup and you can put 50 different vegetables into it. See the Coexist stickers which you see many times on cars that say ‘lets all get along.,’ America’s a melting pot. Co-exist can exist but when you add Islam to it, it cannot exist. So when you add Islam to the soup which you have 50 vegetables in it and everybody enjoy eating this soup when you add one spoon of poison to this soup it’s no longer soup.

Not only doesn’t Islam fit the bowl of religious vegetable soup but it’s a cult and Muslims shouldn’t be allowed to legally exist in America; they are here to takeover and have already infiltrated government. I wonder if this is what Rev. Deacon Spencer means when he says that Muslims should be brought up on charges of “sedition.”

Pastor Dakdok: “Islam is a very wicked cult. It is illegal for Muslims to live in America. Why? Because that is cult that teaches no freedom of religion.”

Pastor Dakdok: “Muslim in America my friends are not here to become Americans and enjoy our freedoms, they are here to spread Shariah, they are here to takeover America for Allah.

It is illegal for Muslims to breathe air inside the America therefore we should never allow Muslims to be anywhere in our government and sadly the last five years the Muslim Brotherhood, the Muslim Jihadi are in the White House, they are in the FBI, they are in the CIA, they are in the Homeland Security. They are here to infiltrate America through our education, through our political arena, through the media, so that’s exactly what happening in America.”

The radio host then asks Dakdok a sensible question abou what his solution is to the so-called “Islam problem”? Dakdok’s answer is that it would be better to have another 9/11 than Muslims in government like Rep. Keith Ellison.

Bill Yarbrough: “If, indeed, Islam cannot exist within our framework of laws and Constitutional protections and they are truly mutually exclusive, what is the remedy, what are you proposing from a political, legal perspective that would remedy that? If you had a magic wand what would occur so we don’t have any of the dangers of which you speak?”

Pastor Dakdok:”Well, we believe if the American people read the Quran which we have translated in our ministry, it took us four years and we sent that copy to every senator and Congress member and highest justice of the Supreme Court and I doubt any of those people have read it.

If the the American people read the Quran they will stop a man like Keith Ellison from the district of Minnesota to swear on the Quran. The man is swearing on a book that commands to kill every American until the last American become Muslim.

And if the American people read the Quran they will never allow a Muslim senator or President like Obama, or a Muslim Congressman like Keith Ellison to run for this offices.

America is losing America from inside…I don’t want the government to tell me what religion I should believe in but by allowing, giving the government the freedom to allow Muslims to run for office, to educate our children, to bring the new generation you are kissing your country completely good bye. I wish we have another September 11th, better, much better than to have Muslim senator and Muslim Congressman, Muslim mayor and Muslim educating our children on the propaganda of Islam because that is destroying the foundation of America.”

Usama ends his rant with, “We love Muslims, we want you to know the love of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.” Isn’t he merciful?

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    • Christian-Friend

      The question is: what are you implying?

    • Randy

      Oh, you’re a moderator? Okay! Coherent assertion? Okay? You can’t comprehend what I’ve said? Okay! We’ll leave it at that. Again, we’re done! I’m most certain you will need to have the last word, so please blab away.


    • Sam Seed

      The important thing my friend is that ‘God loves you’, that is all.

    • Laila Muhammad

      promoting fear is very profitable to isamaphobes….we as muslims have been targeted..we are cannon fodder for what don rumsfeld called a ‘100 yr war’…god protect us

    • Rights

      Me used to chase them things as a child on dry, windy days in the countryside. What a joy that was! Can’t quite explain it. Made me nostalgic. Those were the days! Gone. Never to come back.

    • Rights

      Lancaster’s judgment was truly prophetic when it comes to the “Papists” part. But the “Mahometans” have taken nothing yet.

    • Sam Seed

      Sorry that was in response to Ilisha.

    • Tanveer Khan

      El Cid confuses me so much. There’s his comment to me which I mostly agree with, then that comment and the afghan girl comment…

    • Reynardine

      Uh…we’ve figured out who you are, actually.

    • Tanveer Khan

      That’s enough to turn any man into a bigot.

    • Tanveer Khan

      Yeah, I saw that.

    • Reynardine

      I hate to be vulgar, but I suspect his own tailor made his center seam painfully short.

    • Sam Seed

      Ok, just gone and done that, hope he wins!

    • Sam Seed

      Here’s how he describes himself on his blog The Straight Way Ministry:-

      “Hello, My name is Usama Dakdok. I was born in Egypt and I grew up in a Christian home. But as I grew up in school in Egypt, a government school, and through all these years that I was in school, I learned about Islam, like every other student in a Muslim country. I came to America in 1992, and I found out that there were many Muslims in America. I said, “What a great ministry for me to do right here.”

      With all the knowledge that I have about Islam, I can reach out to the Muslim people with the word of Jesus Christ. That is why we began The Straight Way of Grace Ministry.

      Please look around my website. There are many resources available to you as a Muslimto get to know the Lord, Jesus Christ, better. You who may want to learn more about the religion of Islam and how you might reach out to those in this faith with the word of our Savior. Please contact us if you would like us to personally visit your church or organization and share our good news!

      God loves you, my friend.”

    • Tanveer Khan

      Usama Dakdok? ….. XD

    • “But let us remember that we form a government for millions not yet in existence. I have not the art of divination. In the course of four or five hundred years, I do not know how it will work. This is most certain, that Papists may occupy that chair, and Mahometans may take it.” – William Lancaster – delegate to the North Carolina convention to ratify the Constitution

    • Seeker

      Sure they do. And they get thrown off when they meet the non-stereotypical Muslim. Those in the wonderful suits and ties; instead of some torn rags of desert attire.

Reza Aslan, a Typo, and the Petty Vindictiveness of Robert Spencer


by Ilisha

As we’ve noted before, Robert Spencer seems to have an unhealthy obsession with Reza Aslan. Sadly for Spencer, his interest is not reciprocated.

In this case, serious engagement would elevate Spencer and give him a veneer or credibility he does not deserve. The best response to irredeemable loons is laughter and ridicule. Aslan has responded by teasing Spencer about a man crush:

1. You don’t actually think I read the drivel you send me do you? You’re a clown and the only proper response to clowns is laughter. Unless of course your obsession with me is motivated by something else. In that case, I must tell you that I’m flattered but you’re really not my type.

2. I don’t know how else to tell that I’m just not attracted to you. You and I are never going to get together Robert. You should stick to men your own age and weight.

3. I told you. I’m into women not walruses.

4. Ok. Fine. I’ll think about it. But first you have to shave and lose some weight.

5. If I send you a picture will that satisfy your lust for a while?

Undeterred, it seems Spencer continued, and received this response:

Dear Mr. Spencer. This is Mr. Aslan’s assistant. You seem to be under the impression that Mr. Aslan is actually opening, reading, and responding to your emails. I assure you he is not. The email responses you are receiving are automated responses set to respond to your emails indefinitely. You can’t actually think he is interested in reading anything you have to say. Mr. Aslan is a world renowned, best selling scholar. There is nothing about you or your “work” that would interest him in the slightest. Still, we hope that you will keep up your writings about him. Not only does everything you say validate Mr. Aslan’s importance. But you are a source of immense amusement for our team. Thank you.


Spencer actually posts these responses on his website, apparently proud he managed to get a response at all. Undeterred, he recently attempted once again to engage Aslan.

His latest onslaught was sparked by an interview with Sarah Harvard in DL Magazine. Spencer accused Aslan of being an “Islamic supremacist” who thinks Christianity teaches reincarnation:

ASLAN: It has to do with the symbolism and metaphors that Islam provides to think about God. All of that actually made more sense to me. When I think of God, I think about it in the terms of radical unity, which Islam talks about, and less in the terms of the trinity and reincarnation, which Christianity talks about. That’s it. My faith hasn’t changed. The language in which I use my faith has changed.

Reza Aslan responded to Spencer’s accusation on Twitter:

Twitter Aslan

In turn, Spencer described Aslan as an “immature, foul-mouthed creep,” and wrote [emphasis mine]:

Stung by my noticing that he thinks Christianity teaches reincarnation, Islamic supremacist Christianity-debunker Reza Aslan is claiming that it was just a typo and slinging his usual invective. Only an imbecile, apparently, would be fool enough to believe that Reza Aslan would be fool enough to believe that Christianity teaches reincarnation.

This is at least the second time Spencer has made this accusation, having devoted a previous article to the topic of Aslan’s alleged belief that Christianity teaches reincarnation.

Reza Aslan wrote an entire book devoted to the life and times of Jesus. If he believes that Christianity teaches reincarnation, it seems likely he would have said so in his book. A search on Kindle reveals his book mentions the word “reincarnation” only once, and the reference is not literal:

Malachi’s prophecy explains why the courtiers at Tiberias see in Jesus the reincarnation of Israel’s quintessential end-times prophet. Zealot, The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth, p.130

In contrast, the word “incarnation” is mentioned six times, on pages 12, 36, 105, 138, 170, and 213. In reference to the trinity, Aslan mentions the notion of Jesus as God “incarnate,” which in fact is a widespread Christian teaching:

The Incarnation in traditional Christianity is the belief that the second person of the Trinity, also known as God the Son or the Logos (Word), “became flesh” by being conceived in the womb of a woman, the Virgin Mary, also known as the Theotokos (God-bearer). The incarnation, then, is the God-Man ‘Jesus Christ’.

If Aslan really “thinks” Christianity teaches reincarnation, why did he neglect to mention this throughout his entire book? The word “incarnation” is clearly more consistent with his work. Still, could it be that Aslan is lying about the typo?

In fact, Reza Aslan was clearly vindicated when DL Magazine has posted a correction [emphasis mine]:

CORRECTION 12/29/13: The original published version of this interview stated that Reza Aslan rejected “reincarnation”. That is incorrect; he states that he rejected “incarnation”. DL Magazine regrets the transcribing error. Thank you.

Spencer also tried to take a swipe at Aslan’s best-selling book, Zealot, The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth. Rather than challenging the content, he suggested the book was ghost written because:

…so obvious is Aslan’s abysmal ignorance of the subject matter and only dim awareness of how to write a grammatically correct sentence.

Is that the best he can do? Instead of offering a substantive critique of Aslan’s work, Spencer has now devoted two articles to huffing and puffing about something spectacularly petty.

At the time of this writing, Spencer has not updated his article. If the past is any indication, he will not post a correction. He will let his false accusation stand, and when the mood strikes, he will no doubt challenge Aslan again–and invite another round of ridicule.


Exclusive Loonwatch Interview with Reza Aslan

Robert Spencer: “I have exactly the same credentials as [Reza] Aslan”; Oh, Really?

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    • Of course Spencer will attack Aslan the hardest, because his mere existence ruins the outrage machine he has carefully crafted and the caricature of all Muslims as extremist.

  • Tanveer Khan

    Gracias, Rights

Exclusive: Reverend Deacon Robert Spencer of Our Lady of the Cedars Church

robert_spencer_exposed (1)

by Garibaldi

For quite some time it has been known that Robert Spencer, according to his own testimony, is a Catholic of the Maronite Melkite tradition. However what has not been discussed has been the extent of his involvement with the Church. Spencer attempts to portray himself as a “freedom fighter” (nothing could be further from the truth), fighting “Islamization” and the “savage” Muslims. Presenting himself as an “objective” scholar (though he has no qualifications when it comes to Islam) and a blogger while downplaying his other prominent roles in life.

In light of the recent and welcomed news that the Catholic Diocese of Worcester disinvited Spencer from a speaking engagement at an upcoming Men’s Conference, it is clearer why he was invited in the first place: he is an active Catholic deacon.

In a 2002 article by Shawne K. Wickham, a certain Robert Spenser (his name is spelled wrongly) is cited as studying to become a Melkite deacon. Spen(s)er discusses the idea of “bringing heaven to earth,”

Robert Spenser, who is studying to be a Melkite deacon, recalls an old story of the emissaries who were sent out into the world by the Slavic king to investigate various religions, and happened upon a Byzantine church service in Constantinople. “We didn’t know if we were on heaven or on earth,” they would report back.

“I think the idea of bringing heaven to earth, and having a taste of heaven on earth is one of the reasons people come here,” Spenser said.

In 2002 Spencer (this time with his name spelled properly) is listed as “Associate director of Educational Services” at Our Lady of the Cedars Church:

Associate to the Director of Educational Services – Robert Spencer of Manchester, NH. Robert Spencer is in the Diaconal Formation Program and has been active in the home-school movement.

A 2006 discussion thread titled “Deacon Robert Spencer on C-Span tonight” on the Byzantine Forum leaves no doubt that Deacon Robert Spencer and JihadWatch Robert Spencer are one and the same.

A 2011 official Melkite Greek Church directory lists Spencer as “Rev. Deacon Robert Spencer”

Spencer, Deacon Robert Our Lady of the Cedars E-mail :

In 2011, Spencer also wrote an article for Crisis Magazine, a Catholic publication on his Church titled “We are Non-Roman Catholics.

A 2012 PDF document from Our Lady of the Cedars lists Spencer’s ordination at the top of the masthead.

This information also provides further insight into the reasoning behind Spencer’s anti-Muslim/Islam hate activism. What has been known for quite some time through Robert Spencer’s own statements and declarations (such as his 2003 interview with the Washington Times and his “debate” with his former college Professor Peter Kreeft) is that his Crusade against Islam and Muslims is colored by an extremist Christian supremacist theology that views Islam and Muslims as the ultimate existential threats to “Christendom.”

Additionally, and this is perhaps the real question, it speaks volumes about the Our Lady of the Cedars Church. Why would they have someone ordained who is designated as a hate group leader? Why would they have someone in their ordained clergy who makes a living telling people that Muslims are violent criminals bent on destroying the West?

Is this what the Catholic church is all about? I happen to believe it is not, especially considering that surveys of Catholic Americans show that the majority have positive views of Islam and Muslims. The fact that Spencer is out of step with mainstream Catholicism is also underscored by the fact that the National Catholic Reporter applauded the cancellation of his speech by the Worcester diocese.

If anyone should understand what it feels like to be discriminated against based on religion, it is Catholics. They have faced a history of prejudice in the United States, thus it is odd that such a hostile, and at the least, very controversial figure would assume a leadership role in their church.

And presumably, a portion of his income from his anti-Muslim rants goes to the church. There is one link that shows him as a “platinum” donator to a church function, and another one where he gives a “generous” gift to have a Pantocrator icon installed in the church.

Lastly, we must call out Deacon Spencer’s hypocrisy: In the Melkite tradition, women are not allowed to enter the Holy Place, where the altar stands, and girls are not allowed as altar servers. But of course Spencer rails about discrimination against women in Islam yet he doesn’t notice such blatant discrimination happening in his own tradition. A case no doubt of,

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye. (Matthew 7:5)

Update: Robert Spencer kneeling before the altar, decked out in full green regalia?


Update II: Barth’s Notes: Robert Spencer and the Melkite Greek Catholic Church (h/t: Jai Singh)

Spencer here follows the example of the late Paul Weyrich, whom he regarded as a mentor-figure, although Spencer’s Melkite affiliation also reflects his personal circumstances: he is of Greek Orthodox heritage (family displaced from Turkey) and married to a Catholic, and so a form of Catholicism that follows an Orthodox style has obvious attractions.

Some of Spencer’s books include the name of the priest of his church among the acknowledgements, although the church itself does not appear to promote the kind of anti-Islam polemicising for which Spencer is notorious. In 2006 Spencer promoted a report about a speech given by then-US Melkite leader Archbishop Cyril Salim Bustros, in which Bustros made criticisms of Islam; however, Bustros did not resort to the kind of rabble-rousing rhetoric and sloppiness that are Spencer’s hallmarks.


HOPE Not Hate: Robert Spencer exposed as Catholic deacon

Petition: Remove Hate Group Leader Robert Spencer as Catholic Deacon

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    • The greenmantle

      Sour grapes as Deacon Rev Spencer s very small church is not that well known plus Rev Deacon Spencer is probably still sore at someone …. ok nearly everyone one this site laughing at him . Sir David

    • Jack

      Wrong. In the Eastern Churches, a married man may become a deacon or priest, but cannot marry after ordination.

    • Jack

      In the Orthodox Christian tradition, followed by the Byzantine Catholic Churches, which include the Melkites, a deacon is addressed as Father Deacon Firstname.

      In the same way, a monk, whether in orders or not, is Father Firstname, and a nun is Mother (not Sister) Firstname.

    • Jack

      Melkite Maronite is like saying Methodist Presbyterian. Now we know the depth of your knowledge about Eastern Catholic Churches. Casts a serious shadow over the trustworthiness and objectivity of the rest of your article.

    • GaribaldiOfLoonwatch

      Wow, interesting title for his book! A step away from his usual, “what you really really need to know about Islam” tired titles.

    • GaribaldiOfLoonwatch

      I agree, that’s definitely something you are going to see in any future articles on Fr. Rev. Deacon Robert Spencer.

      LOL. Now that would be a scoop, if Spencer and Geller were ever married.

      I do believe he will claim his life is at risk now that everyone knows his secret, but he already claims so any chance he gets.

    • Zakariya Ali Sher

      Well, Spencer does like collecting money. I think the church might do well to appoint someone to watch over him. You know, make sure he’s not skimming off the top to fund jihad watch or anything.

Does the Qur’an Say Jews Are “Apes and Pigs”?


by Inconnu and Garibaldi

The following article deals specifically with the claim that the Quran teaches that Jews are “apes and pigs.” There is an important fuller discussion to be had on the relationship between Islam and Judaism and Muslims and Jews, a history which has seen its fair share of antagonism and hostility but that is an article for another time.

Amongst self-declared “Islam expert” Robert Spencer‘s many theories about Islam is his claim of “Qur’anic anti-Semitism.” He uses contemporary examples of Muslim maledicta, usually from MEMRI, an organization uniformly devoted to such a cause, then superimposes the modern concept of antisemitism through the prism of said maledicta onto basic texts of Islam. Hoping to link in the mind of the reader a narrative of an inherent, nefarious, transhistorical “Islamic” antisemitism akin to or greater than Christian European antisemitism.

This is just patently false, as Norman Stillman has pointed out in the Encyclopaedia of Islam, Jews have, in the basic texts of Islam,

“none of the demonic qualities attributed to them in medieval Chrsitian literature, neither is there anything comparable to the overwhelming preoccupation with Jews and Judaism (except perhaps in the narratives on Muhammad’s encounters with Medinan Jewry) in Muslim traditional literature…Mediaeval Muslim theologians devoted only a very small part of their polemics against other religions and doctrines to Judaism. There is nothing in Islam comparable in quantity and rarely in sheer vitriol to the Adversus Judaeos literature of the Church.”

None other than Orientalist Bernard Lewis confirms this in his book The Jews of Islam:

‘For Muslims, [hostility to the Jews] is not part of the birth pangs of their religion, as it is for Christians. It is rather the usual attitude of the dominant to the subordinate, of the majority to the minority, without that additional theological and therefore psychological dimension that gives Christian anti-semitism its unique and special character.’

Undoubtedly there are Muslim clerics and leaders today, some very prominent, who have or do engage in antisemitism (there are also many voices who oppose antisemitism).

There should however be a resistance to conflate, the way proponents of the so-called “New Antisemitism” often do, such antisemitism with those who espouse legitimate criticism of the state of Israel and Zionism.

Of particular note has been the contribution of self-described Islamiyoon (Islamists) over the years who have engaged in crass and vitriolic antisemitism. Initially, early thinkers who influenced Islamism sought an accommodation with Zionism. The example of Rashid Rida, an influential turn of the century Muslim scholar, activist and thinker is useful. Initially,

“Rida called on Arabs to take an example from the resurrection of the Jewish umma. Although he had perceived the Zionists’ objectives in Palestine before many others, he nevertheless called, until 1914, for an accomadation with them so as to benefit from the European Jews’ wealth and knowledge, on the condition that they not try to take over Palestine or establish their state there.


Rida’s discourse on the Jews underwent a sharp change in the late 1920s. The long, two-part article that he published on the Palestinian question after the 1929 riots gave a new twist to elements already present in his more circumstantial article of the previous year; this time, he accentuated the anti-Jewish line. Rida drew on various sources, combining assertions that reflected the Muslim tradition that was the most hostile to Jews (whereas he had only recently availed himself of the most pro-Jewish strand in that tradition) with shameless borrowings from the most hackneyed commonplaces of the European anti-Semitism of the day. Among these commonplaces was the fantasy of the all-powerful Jewish conspiracy made popular by the worldwide dissemination of the famous Russian anti-Semitic forgery known as the Protocals of the Elders of Zion, which Rida did not cite, although it plainly had a pervasive influence on his text. (Arabs and the Holocaust, p.111-113)

Recently, President Mohamed Morsi, who has already been criticized for being silent in the face of antisemitic statements was exposed for engaging in hateful and bigoted rhetoric that is all too common amongst some Islamists.

Video of him from pre-Arab Spring days shows him calling Jews “apes and pigs.” Morsi claims he was taken out-of-context and that he really believes in respect for all religions and peoples, statements which we find rather convenient now. The reality is too many like him have contributed to misperceptions of Islam and Muslims, providing Islamophobes with fodder to assert and propagate falsities in their war on Islam and Muslims.

This however doesn’t let Islamophobes off the hook.

Take Robert Spencer’s recent post on Morsi’s screeds, he writes,

When video came out a couple of weeks ago in which he called Jews “apes and pigs” (which the Qur’an calls them in three places, 2:63-65, 5:59-60, and 7:166), Morsi said he was quoted “out of context.” (emphasis mine)

Spencer claims the Qur’an says Jews are apes and pigs in three places, implying “all Jews” are referred to this way. This is a lie. Let’s examine Spencer’s claims in detail. Here are the verses he cites:

AND LO! We accepted your solemn pledge, raising Mount Sinai high above you, [and saying;] “Hold fast with [all your] strength unto what We have vouchsafed you, and bear in mind all that is therein, so that you might remain conscious of God!” And you turned away after that-! And had it not been for God’s favour upon you and His grace, you would surely have found yourselves among the lost. For you are well aware of those from among you who profaned the Sabbath, whereupon We said unto them, “Be as apes despicable!” and set them up as a warning example for their time and for all times to come, as well as an admonition to all who are conscious of God. (2:63-66)

Say: “O followers of earlier revelation! Do you find fault with us for no other reason than that we believe in God [alone], and in that which He has bestowed from on high upon us as well as that which He has bestowed aforetime? – or [is it only] because most of you are iniquitous?” Say: “Shall I tell you who, in the sight of God, deserves a yet worse retribution than these? They whom God rejected and whom He condemned, and whom He turned into apes and swine because they worshipped the powers of evil: these are yet worse in station, and farther astray from the right path [than the mockers].” (5:59-60)

And then, when they disdainfully persisted in doing what they had been forbidden to do, We said unto them: “Be as apes despicable!” (7:166)

The verses in question reference a specific story in which a community of Jews who lived by the sea — which according to several early Islamic exegeses is the town of Eilat — had people who fished on the Sabbath and deliberately broke the law, for according to Jewish law, all work was forbidden on the Sabbath. In punishment for this breach of the law, God transformed the Sabbath-breakers into apes; only 5:60 speaks of God transforming some of the sabbath breaking Jews into swine.

Yet, note that the verses in question do not say, “All Jews are apes and pigs.” They do not say, “All Jews are descended from apes and pigs.” They do not say “All Jews are either apes or pigs.” Do some Muslims say so? Absolutely. Do they cite the above verses as “evidence” for their claims? Absolutely. Does that mean that the verses in question say so? Absolutely not.

In fact, Robert Spencer himself has admitted in the past that these verses do not apply to all Jews. Spencer in 2010:

In traditional Islamic theology these passages have not been considered to apply to all Jews. The classic Qur’anic commentator Ibn Kathir, whose commentary is widely distributed and respected among Muslims today, quotes earlier authorities saying that “those who violated the sanctity of the Sabbath were turned into monkeys, then they perished without offspring,” and that they “only lived on the earth for three days, for no transformed person ever lives more than three days.”

But such interpretations, of which Spencer is clearly aware does not prevent him from projecting the antisemitic statements of some Muslims, such as Morsi’s upon the entire religion of Islam itself when it is convenient for him to do so–as if he suffers from amnesia about what he has written in the past!

Our response is: How do the antisemitic views of some Muslims constitute “proof” of Quranic or Islamic antisemitism? Is the fact that some Catholics hold Jews to be “enemies of the Church,” “Christ killers,” etc. “proof” of inherent New Testament or Christian antisemitism? Does the fact that some Jews hold the view that “racism” is a value that “originated in the Torah,” or that “non-Jews exist to serve Jews” proof of Judaism’s racism and xenophobia against non-Jews? No, of course not! Then, how can that same logic apply to Islam?

Clearly, the verses in question speak of a specific group of Jews, the Sabbath-breakers, who were transfigured into apes and swine. There is no general smear of Jews as such in the Qur’an. So why say so Robert?

But wait! There’s more! Spencer never mentions that in the classical commentaries on these verses, there is a debate whether the “transformation” was literal or metaphorical. According to Muhammad Asad, an early 20th Century convert to Islam who penned a translation and commentary of the Qur’an, many early commentators believed it was a metaphorical transformation:

According to Zamakhshari and Razi, the expression “We said unto them” is here synonymous with “We decreed with regard to them” – God’s “saying” being in this case a metonym for a manifestation of His will. As for the substance of God’s decree, “Be as apes despicable”, the famous tabii Mujahid explains it thus: “(Only) their hearts were transformed, that is, they were not (really) transformed into apes: this is but a metaphor (mathal) coined by God with regard to them, similar to the metaphor of ‘the ass carrying books’ (62:5)” (Tabari, in his commentary on 2:65; also Manar I, 343; VI, 448; and IX, 379). A similar explanation is given by Raghib.

As we can see classical authorities are not in consensus on the issue of Jewish sabbath breakers being transformed into apes and pigs, some hold it to be a literal transformation while others metaphorical.

Regardless, however, the fact remains: the Qur’an does not say that the Jews are “apes and swine” despite the rantings of Morsi or the pseudo-expertise of Islamophobes such as Robert Spencer.

*Both the Stillman and Lewis quotes were retrieved from Gilbert Achcar’s “The Arabs and the Holocaust.”

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    • Ahmen


    • Tanveer Khan

      Interesting. Merci beaucoup Emir SS.

    • Tanveer Khan

      Well according to this link

      There is a pretty long hadith where the Prophet PBUH said: ‘Prayers will be neglected, carnal desires will be pursued, transgressors will become leaders, it will not be possible to distinguish the faithful from the false, telling lies will become desirable, payment of Zakah will be taken as a burden, the believer will be deemed the most disgraceful…….’

      I must say though, cant find anything on it’s authenticity and ive never heard of the Mudkhal.

    • Solid Snake

      Well, i dont have specific sources its just something I know but there are many ahadith talking about how there will come a time where people will enter Islam in droves and leave in droves, and hadith saying the people will become so ignorant of Islam that no one will know how to fast or pray. Things of that sort. Also hadith that say that there will come a time where the Quran is dishonored and Islam becomes strange to the people.

      Its also the logical flow of things. The farther away you get from the source the less people will follow. And the more distractions in the world, the more things to enjoy and get lost in the less time people will have for religion.

      That is why it is best to be aware of what is happening. If you pay attention to how things change you wont get caught off guard and you can prepare. Inshallah Allah keeps us on the true path until the end.

Robert Spencer’s Attacks on #MyJihad Campaign Debunked

Robert Spencer’s Attacks on #MyJihad Campaign Debunked

Garibaldi of Loonwatch wrote about a recent twitter exchange between terrorist inspirer and pseudo-scholar Robert Spencer and Civil Rights activist Ahmed Rehab. Spencer was forced into undermining his career long effort to demonize Islam and Muslims, reluctantly conceding that the term Jihad means more than “terrorism” and “violence,” a position he is loathe to share on a daily basis with his readers since it doesn’t fit his scheme of evil Muslim hordes Islamizing the universe.

This fits a pattern of doublespeak on Spencer’s part: on the one hand he tells his audience that there are “no distinctions between peaceful and violent Muslims” and that the “only good Muslim is a bad Muslim,” yet when pressed in public about his positions he backtracks, and says things like, “Islam makes a lot of people be very moral and upright and live fine lives.”

This brings us to Spencer’s recent double speak, in which he tells his fans that the “true meaning” of Jihad is the one that is forwarded by radical Muslim preachers. Intriguingly, Spencer finds himself in the unenviable company of agreeing with extremists such as Omar Bakri, Anjum Chaudhry, Osama Bin Laden and others who believe that the targeted killing of innocents is a legitimate expression of Jihad in Islam.

Spencer’s article begins by first trying to delegitimize the #MyJihad campaign, he writes,

“The deceptive and misleading #MyJihad campaign…”

Off the bat one can see that Spencer has already made up his mind, for him anything that runs counter to the “Jihad is evil” mantra is unacceptable. That is why he is eager to hide the true import of the campaign: giving voice to how millions of Muslims relate to Jihad in their daily lives. The #MyJihad campaign also clearly states on both its website and Facebookpage that its goal is, “taking back Jihad from anti-Muslim and Muslim extremists alike.”

One would think that if Spencer was honest about promoting peace and justice (words he bandies about meaninglessly), and not being anti-Muslim he would welcome such an initiative. Of course Spencer would be out of a David Horowitz Subsidized job if he welcomed the campaign. Spencer goes on to write,

This campaign is designed to foster complacency among Americans, and to blind them to the fact that Islamic jihadists are committing violence in the name of jihad around the world every day.

Spencer is worried by the educational potentiality of the #MyJihad campaign and attempts once again to obfuscate its message. Clearly Spencer missed the memo about what this whole campaign actually is about, let’s repeat it for him,

“taking back Jihad from anti-Muslim and Muslim extremists alike.”

Robert Spencer’s many faulty claims regarding Jihad have been directly debunked in Danios’ Understanding Jihad series. In this series Danios tackles Spencer’s assertions one by one, adding context and facts and also criticizing the enormous falsities Spencer forwards about Jihad, thereby putting “Jihad” in proper perspective. This may be the reason why to this day Robert Spencer refuses to reply to Danios’ rebuttals in the series and has also ran away from Loonwatch’s open invitation to debate.

Also read Sheila Musaji’s articleAFDI/SIOA Roll Out 8 More Anti-Muslim Ads

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    • Jai


      Robert Spencer’s many faulty claims regarding Jihad have been directly debunked in Danios’ Understanding Jihad series. In this series Danios tackles Spencer’s assertions one by one, adding context and facts and also criticizing the enormous falsities Spencer forwards about Jihad, thereby putting “Jihad” in proper perspective.

      Sheila Musaji’s article, mentioned at the end of the main Loonwatch article above, is definitely worth reading in full:

      Not only does Pamela Geller plan at least 9 more anti-Muslim ads, but (no doubt in response to the escalating backlash) Robert Spencer himself has disingenuously started trying to publicly distance himself from the ad campaign.

      Furthermore, as Sheila Musaji’s article documents, it turns out that Robert Spencer is on record as publicly admitting that the word “jihad” certainly doesn’t necessarily mean anything negative, including “violence” or even “holy war”. Sheila’s article includes the URL link to Spencer’s own recent JihadWatch article on the subject:

      Quote from Spencer’s JihadWatch article:

      Robert Spencer: “This page [explaining Spencer’s decision for choosing the name “Jihad Watch”] has been linked to the front page of the Jihad Watch website since October 2003, and all that time it has said this: “Jihad (Arabic for ‘struggle’) is a central duty of every Muslim. Muslim theologians have spoken of many things as jihads: [for example] the struggle within the soul…..I discuss the various meanings of jihad, including that of spiritual struggle, in my 2003 book Onward Muslim Soldiers and many times elsewhere. On hundreds of radio shows over the years I have explained, as part of my basic explanation of the word, that “jihad” in Arabic has as many connotations and shades of meaning as “struggle” does in English — as I explained in this 2008 interview: “The word means ‘struggle,’ and has as many connotations as the English word ‘struggle’ does. The Islamic Republic of Iran has a Department of Agricultural Jihad, which has to do with the struggle to increase crop yields.””

      It proves that Robert Spencer & Pamela Geller are perfectly aware that they’re deliberately promoting misinformation about Islam & Muslims during their continuing anti-Muslim propaganda campaign, including the current ads in New York.

      Some enterprising organisation should simply create posters quoting Spencer’s statement above and display them right next to Geller’s ads in NY.

    • Hatethehaterz

      Nice article. I think one thing about the term jihad that deserves emphasis is that even in the context of violence and/or war, it only refers to self defense. This is something which I believe Danios also noted well in his series. It is never acceptable in Islam to be the aggressor in violent confrontation. Violence in Islam is only permitted for self defense or the defense of loved ones, or the weak or opressed. That is why the term “counter-jihad” will never really make sense. They are “countering” our right to defend ourselves? Of course we all know that term is simply a veil meant to obfuscate the true meaning of their “movement.” Which is merely anti-Muslim bigotry.

  • Seeker

    How’s Danios doing, anyway? Haven’t seen anything of him for a while. Starting to get a little nervous – you never know what kind of hateful people are out there. Other than that – quite interesting piece here. Loving the #MyJihad campaign.

Sheila Musaji: Robert Spencer Discovers Halloween Jihad

Let the loony Islamophobic conspiracies about a war on Halloween begin. (h/t: CriticalDragon)

Robert Spencer discovers Halloween Jihad

by Sheila Musaji

Robert Spencer finds it noteworthy enough to note on Jihad Watch that Seattle elementary school bans Halloween costumes: they could offend students from “other cultures”.

He engages in his typical snarky innuendo:

Gee, I wonder which culture would have students in the Seattle elementary schools who would be offended by Halloween costumes. Still, there is no indication that any Islamic supremacist group demanded this ban; the school officials are just playing the dhimmi on their own initiative. Please write them, politely and respectfully, and ask them why American culture always takes a back seat to others, and why they’re pandering to an imaginary offense.

And, of course, his partner Pamela Geller also posted an article on this non-story, sayingDismantling America, piece by cultural piece, law by American law …… the parents ought to protest en masse – in costume.

The article Spencer and Geller refer to says only that a Seattle school has banned students from dressing up in costume for Halloween this year at school.  One district representative said that costumes “could offend and upset students who come from other cultures”.  The principal of the school said that “This decision was made by the entire staff after two deep and detailed discussions. The initial conversation was initiated by staff members who suggested that since Halloween falls this year on a half day of school, we not allow costumes. It takes students a while to change into their costumes, and students are distracted taking away from the already limited instructional time.

That’s it, the whole story that is known from this.  We don’t know whether or not any parent made any request or complaint to the district or to the school.  We don’t know what is the demographic of the community where this school is located.  Blaming this decision on some sort of Muslim plot, or a self-imposed fear of a possible Muslim reaction, to take away an American holiday is absolute nonsense.

To jump to the conclusion that Spencer does from this very limited information is a clear sign of his deeply held Islamophobia.  We know that Spencer is blaming Muslims for this school decision because he says the school officials are “playing dhimmi” on their own initiative.  Is it only some Muslims who don’t celebrate Halloween?

Here is a quote from one such “dhimmi” who refuses to participate in American culture:

“I think we ought to close Halloween down. Do you want your children to dress up as witches? The Druids used to dress up like this when they were doing human sacrifice…[The children] are acting out Satanic rituals and participating in it, and don’t even realize it.”Pat Robertson, “The 700 Club,” 1982-OCT-29

Robertson is not exactly known for his fondness for Islam or Muslims.  I wonder is Spencer will ask his followers to write letters to The 700 Club to complain about Robertson’s attempts to “dismantle America”.

If any parents did say something to the school or district administration, they might have been parents from just about any religious or cultural background.

Yes, there are some Muslims who are opposed to celebrating Halloween, for a variety of reasons.  The reasons given are pretty much identical with the reasons that many Christians and Jews are opposed to celebrating the holiday.  There is a wide range of opinion within all of these communities about the holiday, what it means, and why it should not be celebrated, or can be celebrated as simply a cultural event.

Read the rest…

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    • Aasim

      If Christians actually tried to make to replace all laws of America with laws of the bible and succeed and do to non Christians what Saudi Arabia does on non Muslims and Bhutan does on non Buddhists, people like Robert Spencer not care, instead I bet they will only care if Muslims (and only Muslims) even think of making America like Saudi Arabia, in fact if he had a kindly practicing Muslim neighbor (who is a America loving Republican and puts a flag on his lawn) with a wife who doesn’t work and wears a hijab willingly, a pre teen daughter who also wears a hijab willingly and follows her dad’s rules (including religious ones) and a teenage son who in a band and plays loudly and continuously and another neighbor who is not Muslim and he beats his wife, wants American to be a Christian country and on top of that is a proud Nazi who loves Hitler and want America to be like South Africa before 1994, which do you think he will be more uncomfortable with? That depends which neighbor is Muslim?

    • Aasim

      I bet if Robert Spencer found out about a school who bans Halloween costumes on behalf of Christians and Mexicans or non Muslims and non Middle Easterners then he will not say a single thing unless it also involves Muslims or people who come from a mainly Muslim ethnic group then he will try to single them out as the sole culprit.

  • AJ

    @mindy, thank you

[Open Thread Sunday] Robert Spencer’s White Nationalist Colors

Robert Spencer and his biggest fan: Anders Behring Breivik

Robert Spencer and his biggest fan: Anders Behring Breivik

This story comes to us via. Critical Dragon. It is an older story, originally published by the SPLC in November of last year. It is quite astonishing as it clearly proves Robert Spencer‘s links to and parroting of the White Nationalist line. This further adds to the nexus between Western cultural and racist supremacists and Islamophobia.

This piece of Spencer’s worldview seems to be largely overlooked by many when discussing his hate activism.

by Leah Nelson, SPLC

Proving yet again that nothing is beneath him, anti-Muslim propagandist Robert Spencer has put himself firmly in the camp of open white nationalists with an article published yesterday in Crisis magazine, a conservative Catholic publication. Replete with fawning references to the superior accomplishments of Western culture and the Catholic Church, the piece, titled “Is Multiculturalism Evil?,” proposes that Western civilization is superior to all others and that multiculturalists (aligned with “Islamic supremacists”) are colluding to bring it to its knees.

This is nearly the identical view forwarded by Anders Behring Breivik to justify his terrorist attacks in Norway. According to the Breivik and Spencer’s of the world there is a leftist-Muslim conspiracy that is attempting to destroy the West through the “cult of Multiculturalism.”

Spencer’s links to, associations with and citing of White nationalists, individuals associated with Holocaust denying publications, websites that positively review movies that are wildly popular with neo-Confederates and more gets a thorough treatment by Leah Nelson of the SPLC:

Spencer’s piece is punctuated with a recommended reading list that might have been taken from the bookshelf of John Tanton, the racist architect of the modern nativist movement. Of the five tracts he suggests, four were written and/or published by anti-immigration extremists. They include On the Immorality of Illegal Immigration by retired priest and longtime Tanton ally Patrick Bascio; The Immigration Mystique by Chilton Williamson, who is a frequent contributor to the white nationalist website VDARE; Anthony M. Esolen’s The Politically Incorrect Guide to Western Civilization, which was published by the white nationalist Regnery Press; and Jean Raspail’s 1973 Camp of the Saints, a racist fantasy about an invasion of France and the white Western world by a fleet of starving, dark-skinned refugees that was most recently republished by Tanton’s Social Contract Press.

(Interestingly, Crisis claims that Bascio’s book was put out by “Authorhouse,” of Bloomington, Ind. In fact, its first publisher was American Free Press, a hate group founded by Holocaust denier Willis Carto that also publishes an anti-Semitic and conspiracy-minded weekly.)

Given its recommended reading list, is should be no surprise that Spencer’s answer to the question “Is Multiculturalism Evil” is a resounding yes. Tipping his cap to his Catholic publisher, he denounces multiculturalism as a “heresy” intent on “[d]enigrating and ultimately destroying the Judeo-Christian West, not stamping out some putative racist devaluation of other cultures.”

“Today, no one questions the idea that one culture is as good as another,” he writes in shocked tones. “No one even whispers the possibility that the achievements of one group in a given area (for instance, medieval Christians) might actually surpass those of another group. No one even dares to think that there might be better indicators of the quality of an endeavor than the number of different ethnicities of the people involved.”

“Multiculturalism in reality is an anti-Christian, anti-Catholic, anti-Western exercise in moral and cultural Relativism. … A true multiculturalist hates all forms of Christianity and Judeo-Christian civilization, but retains particular contempt and bile for manifestations of Catholic piety and culture.”

In one particularly hypocritical section, Spencer complains that “European multiculturalists, working willingly in tandem with Islamic supremacists” are trying to enforce the Islamic prohibition against insulting Mohammad by extending anti-hate speech laws to Muslims, while ignoring insults to “the dominant Judeo-Christian culture.”

It is true, as Spencer says, that free speech is valued in the West – but unlike America, many European countries have laws against hate speech, and Spencer’s suggestion that they privilege Muslims is patently absurd. In 2005, for example, the Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard drew a set of offensive caricatures of Mohammed whose publication in European periodicals led to a violent reaction among some hard-line Muslims, including two attempts on Westergaard’s life. The cartoonist wasn’t prosecuted for hate speech against Muslims. Rather, he was placed under permanent police protection. On the other hand, in the same year, authorities in Austria arrested British national David Irving for denying the Holocaust. He was convicted and jailed in early 2006.

Spencer further complains about supposed “double standards” in academia, which he claims is controlled by multiculturalists who hate the West. Inconveniently, Anthony Esolen – whose Politically Incorrect Guide to Western Civilization is on Spencer’s recommended reading list – is currently employed as a professor at Providence College.

Despite his bile, it’s no surprise that Crisis should find Spencer appealing. While claiming that it “explores and articulates the subjects of politics, business, culture, faith, and family life from a Catholic perspective,” the magazine – like Patrick Buchanan, a famous Catholic who has recently written several articles for Crisis – obviously has no interest in the church’s pro-immigration stance. Its interim editor, John Zmirak, has contributed numerous articles to VDARE (which, oddly, has also published anti-Catholic screeds – including a recent attack on the church’s embrace of immigrants). Zmirak has also written for David Horowitz’s conservative and anti-Muslim FrontPageMagazine, to which his contributions include a highly positive review of “Gods and Generals,” a 2003 Civil War drama that minimized the role of slavery and was wildly popular in neo-Confederate circles.

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    • George Carty

      Sure Breivik was a Zionist, but he was also clearly animated by a desire to defend whites against growing non-white populations (especially Muslim populations).

      Breivik hated most diaspora Jews for supporting multiculturalism, while loving Israeli Jews as comrades-in-arms against the Muslim Hordes (TM). As Christians United for Israel shows, you don’t have to like Jews to be a Zionist.

    • George Carty

      Breivik argued in his manifesto that the world’s population should be roughly halved to about 3 billion, but he also condemned feminism in Western countries on the grounds that it has caused a worrying reduction in white European birth rates.

      Only a white nationalist would hold both those viewpoints simultaneously.

      I guess you are confused by the fact that Breivik condemns Hitler’s Nazis, but it is really the pro-Hitler white nationalists who are illogical given that the vast majority of the deaths in World War II (or at least its European theatre) were white. Hitler was not a white supremacist but a German supremacist.

    • Jai


      ”First, let me say I really appreciate your contributions here. Even if I’ve never expressly said that before (and I think maybe I have?), I’ve thought it many times.”

      Thank you once again for your extremely kind words. And yes, I do recall you recently mentioning that on another thread.

      “Of course, those who like to write also have the guest post avenue–you’re welcome to contribute articles via email as well, if you’d like.”

      Thank you very much. I’ll certainly email you draft articles if anything else comes to mind.

      ”As soon as practical, I’ll draft one of your suggested posts for the admin to review.”

      That sounds perfectly fine. Please do feel free to use the material I’ve supplied above, especially the list about Robert Spencer. I do of course agree that it would be prudent to clear it with the admin first.

    • Awesome

      I understand, you are completely right, 9/11 only happened in the mind of Spencer, like Toulouse, like Madrid, like Mumbai, like London, like the Taliban, like Nigeria, Like Egypt, Like Syria, like Sudan, like Liege,like Jemen, like Eritrea, like Somalia, like Pakistan, like Iran, like Iraq, like Mali, like Hamas, like Hezbollah, Like Bali, what a fool I am, I should have known better, I am terrible sorry about my misunderstanding of Islam.

      In fact you still do not understand, because “9/11, like Toulouse, like Madrid, like Mumbai, like London, like the Taliban, like Nigeria, Like Egypt, Like Syria, like Sudan, like Liege,like Yemen, like Eritrea, like Somalia, like Pakistan, like Iran, like Iraq, like Mali, like Hamas, like Hezbollah, like Bali”, etc. are all part of the real world.

      The only thing that is coming from Spencer’s mind is the anti-Islam rhetoric that he goes out of his way to shamelessly plug into his inane commentary on such things. Anyone who seriously believes that anything and everything negative involving any Muslim in the world always has something to do with Islam, is a person who lacks common sense and rationality. It should be common sense to any rational adult that people don’t work that way and neither does the world.

      In reality, the world and how it works is far too complicated for your simple, small-minded ideas of it to possibly be true. This is especially true, when all you rely on for information are sensationalized police blotter websites of Muslim criminal activity worldwide, and only because they tell you what you want to hear. You want to hear negative things about Islam and Muslims, and actively seek them out, because you want what you chose to believe about Islam and Muslims to be verified as true so that you can feel vindicated about it. However, what you choose to believe is not necessarily going to be true.

      How much self-deception can you swallow?

      That is a question you should ask yourself, since you seem to be swallowing quite a lot of it.

    • Thinker

      Life is quest for truth, peace, love, harmony and freedom. If you find truth, you will also find peace, love, harmony and freedom.

      If you do not experience these things, you will have to look and maybe be willing to turn around. Do not travel in the dark, you do need – the light -. Let There Be Light.

    • Sarah Brown

      @thinker – I always think it’s meaningless to deny any form of bigotry, racism etc. But in response to your implication that people here, who disagree with you, hate Jews I’ll invoke simply the objective fact that I have been an occasional poster on a site in the UK dedicated to opposing antisemitism and regularly write elsewhere on this topic (and on anti-Muslim bigotry, homophobia, etc). I suspect I have different views from most here on the intersection between antisemitism and antizionism but to imply this is a site where people ‘hate Jews’ is quite unfair.

    • Jai


      No problem at all — and thank you for your kind words about my comment. I look forward to a proper response from you when it’s more convenient.

    • Jai


      Any thoughts on my last comment above ?

Sheila Musaji: Pamela Geller & Robert Spencer Discover “fireworks jihad”

Pamela Geller & Robert Spencer discover “fireworks jihad”

by Sheila Musaji (The American Muslim)

Some individuals like Pamela Geller are so anxious to find anything at all that is negative about Islam or Muslims that they are willing to pass on any unsubstantiated rumor from anywhere as “proof” that Muslims are evil.  Geller’s professed “love” for Muslims is expressed as pathological hatred.

Geller posted an article Sharia in Colorado: Special accommodations for a special class, Muslims.  She said

Once again we see special rules for Muslims in accordance with the sharia and Islamic supremacism. Anywhere American law and Islamic law conflict, it is American law that has to give way. Check this out from Atlas reader Chris:

Very few are talking about it here in Denver Colorado. American citizens were banned from celebrating our national birthday the Fourth of July. Fireworks were and are still banned unless it was to celebrate the end of Ramadan. I have asked several police officers what the huge fireworks show was and they replied that it was the local Islamic center celebrating. I then asked if the statewide ban on fireworks was still in effect and they said yes. So logically I asked did they have a permit for such a large display. The answer was no and that the police were not to respond to calls about it.

Robert Spencer (the self proclaimed “acclaimed scholar of Islam”) posted the same article with the same dubious source with the longer title Sharia in action in Colorado: Muslims set off fireworks in defiance of ban, police told to ignore complaints and the introduction “A statewide ban on fireworks is not a statewide ban on fireworks when Muslims are setting them off. To enforce the ban would be “Islamophobic,” doncha know.”

Actually, no one is talking about it except Geller and the sites that picked up this non-story from her.  The only source for the story is some guy named Chris who posted a comment on her site.

If she had done just a little fact checking, she would have discovered first, that no one else other than her reader, Chris, had reported on this supposed story, and also that on July 9th Gov. John Hickenlooper had lifted the Colorado fire ban and more than 60 Colorado counties moved to moderate to low fire danger.

Geller, Spencer, and the rest of the Islamophobia echo chamber are stark raving mad!  They see Jihad everywhere and in almost all cases it doesn’t exist except in their fevered Islamophobic brains.  Here are just a few ridiculous claims about nonsensical Muslim plots:

An Eid Celebration for Muslim Special Needs Kids was described as a “stealth jihad”.   A children’s page in a newspaper focusing on Eid was described as a toxic propaganda plot.  Joel Hinrichs (a Christian) had a beard and had walked through the parking lot of a campus mosque thus proving that his crime was an example of sudden jihad syndrome.   The awful April 2007 shooting at Virginia Tech by a Korean student was also called Islamic jihad because Cho’s father had once worked in Saudi Arabia (before he was married and before Cho was born).  A Muslim doctor had a heart attack and died at the wheel of his car which then crashed into a shopping mall and this was described as “vehicular jihad”.   A Muslim cab driver objected to what he considered pornographic ads on the roof of his cab, and that became astealth-jihad plot to impose Sharia on America.  Any Muslim who has sued an employer for violation of their rights under the EEOC is engaged in employment jihad, or litigation jihad.  Muslim environmentalists are said to be actually engaged in “civilizational jihad”.  A cartoon series “The 99” aimed at young Muslims was described as “cultural jihad”.  The victims of the terrorist attack of 9/11 included Muslims, they were accused of dying as martyrs in an act of jihad.

The Islamophobes have uncovered countless examples of false and “shocking” Muslim jihad plots.  They have uncovered:  bumper sticker jihad,  Thanksgiving turkey jihad, an incrediblepaisley scarf jihadmarriage to important men jihadspit jihadfashion jihadspelling bee jihadrape jihad,  defacing dollar bills jihad,   population jihadcreeping Sharia jihad,  mosque building jihadterror baby jihad“creeping Sharia” jihad,  pedophilia jihad,  bus driver prayer jihadforehead bruise jihadpostage stamp jihadsoup jihad,  banning alcohol jihad,fake hate crimes jihadpiggy bank jihad,  tv reality series jihadhandshake jihadprom jihad,interfaith jihadArabic language jihad,  public school jihadreligious accommodation jihad,Crescent moon jihadChristmas tree tax jihadoath of office jihadimmigration jihad,community fundraiser jihad.  Christina Abraham (a Muslim) has a name that is not recognizably Muslim enough and so we have stealth name jihad.

There is a reason that many, even outside of the Muslim community see such demonization of Muslims as Islamophobic.  There is a reason that the ADL has stated that Brigitte Gabriel’s Act for America, Pamela Geller & Robert Spencer’s Stop the Islamization of America (SIOA), David Yerushalmi’s Society of Americans for National Existence (SANE)  are “groups that promote an extreme anti-Muslim agenda”.  There is a reason that The Southern Poverty Law Center has designated SIOA as a hate group, and that they are featured in the SPLC reports Jihad Against Islam and The Anti-Muslim Inner Circle.  There is a reason that Geller and Spencer are featured prominently in the Center for American Progress “Fear Inc.” report on the Islamophobia network in America.  There is a reason that Geller is featured in the People for the American Way Right Wing Playbook on Anti-Muslim Extremism.  There is a reason that Geller is featured in the NYCLU reportReligious Freedom Under Attack:  The Rise of Anti-Mosque Activities in New York State.  There is a reason that Geller is featured in the Political Research Associates report Manufacturing the Muslim menace: Private firms, public servants, and the threat to rights and security.  There is a reason that the SIOA’s trademark patent was denied by the U.S. government due to its anti-Muslim nature.  There is a reason that they are featured (with extensive backgrounder articles) in our TAM Who’s Who of the Anti-Muslim/Anti-Arab/Islamophobia Industry.  There is a reason that these individuals are featured in just about every legitimate report on Islamophobia and anti-Muslim hatred.

These people consistently promote the what everyone “knows” lies about Islam and Muslims.   They generalize specific incidents to reflect on all Muslims or all of Islam.   When they are caught in the act of making up or distorting claims they engage in devious methods to attempt to conceal the evidence.

The claim that “truth tellers” are being accused of Islamophobia for no reason other than their legitimate concerns about real issues and that in fact there is not even such a thing as Islamophobia is nonsense.

The reason that this is so obvious to so many is that rational people can tell the difference between legitimate concerns and bigoted stereotypes.   The Islamophobia of these folks is very real, and it isalso strikingly similar to a previous generations’ anti-Semitism.

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    • zangi

      What is the source of this information? Any news clip from any reputable source? Or is is just from Chris of Atlas Shrug? I live in Colorado and to the best of my knowledge none had any fireworks planned. So looks like readers of loony websites are also loony. They live in make believe world!

    • @rookie

      You wrote, ——————————————————————————————- Breivik?

      He will spend next 20 yrs in prison – writing books.

      He will become millionaire.

      After 20 years he will get out of prison and ground a political party…

      Someone continue…


      If you’re imagining he’s going to go the Hitler route, that’s only the worst case scenario. Besides its not very likely. Even the overwhelming majority of other Islamophobes tried desperately to distance themselves from him, after he went on his Killing spree. A Brevik candidacy and a political party run by him, would be fiercely opposed, especially by the families of his victims.

      Also, if Hitler had spent twenty one years behind bars after the Beer Hall Putsch, instead of just a little over a year after he was convicted. The conditions that lead to ascension of the Nazi party and his rise to power, might have changed dramatically. Not mention that it would have been much harder for him to use it as a propaganda tool, and people might even have forgotten all about him.

      Beer Hall Putsch

    • Solid Snake


      He will tour Europe and the US being paid by right wingers all over the world. At that point the jig will be up, their facade of being against murder and extremism will drop and they will openly embrace violence. Breivek will prove that they can and have beaten the system. His speech will be protected and soon his party will grow.

      As his message and party gains momentum, more moderate people will turn to their local right wing parties.

      Events will heat up in the Middle East as the foreign policy between conservative Right wingers and liberal left wingers begins to blur.

      Pretty soon we will be hearing Anti-Muslim rhetoric from both sides of the isle louder than ever.

      Islamophobes will commit crimes against Muslims only to have Islamophobic lawyers represent them pro bono in front of Islamophobic judges.

      The precedents have been set, first the stabbing and killing of Marwa Sherbini in the court room in front of judges and police officers. and now Breiveks case.

      And then it takes one misguided, lonely, scared, and desperate Muslim to attempt to kill Breivek while he is on one of his tours. as we said one of their goals is to troll for assassins. Whether this assassin succeeds or fails he will have sent the world spiraling downwards into what possibly could be another global conflict.

      From there it only gets worse for Muslims and their allies…..I mean i hope it doesn’t happen but the way it looks I wont be shocked if he is deemed safe to return to society in 20 years.

    • rookie


      He will spend next 20 yrs in prison – writing books.

      He will become millionaire.

      After 20 years he will get out of prison and ground a political party…

      Someone continue…

    • Jai

      “Pamela Geller & Robert Spencer discover “fireworks jihad”

      As I mentioned on another thread a few days ago, I wonder how long it’ll take for Geller & Spencer to notice that a disproportionate number of India’s biggest movie stars are Muslims. I expect Geller & Spencer would call it “Bollywood Jihad”…..

    • Breviek will most likely spend the rest of his life in prison. Yes, he was only sentenced to 21 years which is the maximum sentence in Norway. Keep in mind that in Norway one can be kept in prison beyond their sentence if they are still seen as a threat to society, something which is highly likely for Breviek.

      Yes, being declared “criminally sane” should put all the crazy Loons on noticed that they too can and most likely will be declared sane by a court of law if they too commit hate-crimes, domestic acts of terrorism or any kind of terrorism.

      Being declared sane is good news and an opportunity to discuss how to deal safely with Loons and not just dismiss them as “crazy.”

    • Zakariya Ali Sher

      Breivik was found ‘sane,’ and sentenced to a mere 21 years because apparently, the Norwegian definitions of “humane” include not punishing criminals for acts like mass murder. Apparently, he has it quite nice too. Three cells, including a spa and a study, and he’s not in general population because the authorities fear for his life. A pity too because I was kind of hoping that he’d get shanked. Fortunately, he wasn’t allowed to rant about his “issues” that In Fidel wants to raise, but unfortunately, he apparently plans on publishing further manifestos from prison. Unless, like I said before, some brave Norwegian convict has the cobbles to shank him before he subjects the world to future indignities.

    • dreamdayz01

      In southern part of India, the “Love Jihad” danger is a favorite topic among right wing Nationalist (even after being dismissed by investigating authorities as hoax).

    • There is a difference between being “criminally insane” and a paronoid schizophrenic. Even schizophrenics, with their self-righteous claims of “truth telling” and illusions of grandness possessed with special gifts- they have a special calling to share the truth while proclaiming all others who disagree as “ignorant”- can be and often are criminally sane because they planned and new what they were doing.

      Breviek is criminally sane, not insane as In Fidel confidently predicted in his comment above. I guess some so-called truth tellers don’t always know the truth, do they Eric Allen Bell, In Fidel, GW, Steve and No Imaginary Friends Here?

    • truth

      Pam geller is a mad woman.I wonder if there is anything she truely loves in her life

    • Crow

      EPIC FAIL TROLL!! Brevik was found sane because the only issues he raised were important to venomous bigots and white supremists, the one issue that should have been raised and wasnt, was should brevik be shot or hung? As for geller, fat spencer, gabriel etc and their fans they are by nature moraless cowards

    • Inn Fidel

      Breveik will be found insane. Finding him sane would force Norway and Europe to face the issues he raises.

    • Sarah Brown

      This is very useful because Spencer does cover some true stories, and indeed some stories which *ought* to be covered – i.e. I assume he pounced on the one about the little girl accused of blasphemy. The fireworks story is a good example of one which is, not just ridiculously exaggerated/tendentiously worded, but simply untrue.

  • mindy1

    Yah know, I think if I took them to my shrink he would diagnose them with delusions of grandeur-thinking you are important when you are not

New York: Predictably, The So-Called “Islamorealism” Ads are Based in Bigotry and Lies

The above ads are appearing at Metro-North stations in New York. A continuation of Islamophobic activists Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller‘s AFDI/SIOA racist and anti-Muslim/Islam advertisement campaign.

In light of recent hate attacks, 8 over a period of 11 days, and another possible attack yesterday, the attempted firebombing of a Muslim family’s home in Panama City, Florida, can we not consider such advertisements to be an incitement to violence?


If these ads are not a form of “false advertisement,” at the very least they are a form of false and inaccurate information that is being disseminated to the general public, making the masses more ignorant.

Factually, the number of “*19,250 Islamic attacks (*and counting)” is a purposeful fabrication. To label such attacks as “Islamic” is not only offensive but a dangerous and ignorant essentialization of Islam and the very broad and variegated phenomenon of terrorism in Muslim majority countries and the West. It tells us nothing about the so-called “terrorist” attacks themselves; what criteria was used to judge them “terrorist” or “Islamic”; nor about who or what created the “terrorism.” It purposefully reinforces the Islamophobic myths that Islam, a religion of over 1.5 billion people worldwide, that is over 1400 years old is a unified, monolithic and totalitarian force that is inherently obligated to wreak random and terrible violence. Also notice the intentional and shameless exploitation of 9/11 in the ad, “…Since 9/11/01.”

What is strangely not mentioned in the advertisements is that this so-called “Islamic Terrorism ticker” that gives us the oddly precise round number of 19,250 is taken from the anti-Muslim website “The Religion of Peace” (TROP). In a previous article I pointed out that the methodology by which TROP arrived at these inflated numbers is very deceptive.

Even a cursory glance at TROP’s list of so-called “Islamic terrorist attacks” reveals it to be nothing more than a deeply biased, propagandistic spin-job that conflates:  real terrorist attacks, (semi)religious/culturally motivated crimes, attacks on military personnel and attacks by secular groups with no ideological basis in Islam — all in theaters of occupation, civil war and separatist conflict.

I cited a sampling of the attacks they claimed were so-called “Islamic terrorism” from a period of just one month that on further inspection proved not to be related to either “terrorism” or “Islam.” Many of the attacks listed by TROP relate to nationalist insurgencies, such as the conflict involving Baluchi nationalists seeking independence from Pakistan. Some of the attacks listed by TROP are in fact crimes committed by Muslims or people with Muslim sounding names that have nothing to do with Islam or terrorism, such as honor killings, the killing of local policemen, petty assault, etc.

In the end I wonder if there are any actionable grounds to contest these advertisements? Even though they are not selling a product they are promoting hate propaganda based on fabricated and faulty information, and hence are doing an immense disservice to the general population.

by James Arkin (NYDailyNews)

The Metro-North is once again the center of a controversy over potentially offensive billboards.

Greenburgh Town Supervisor Paul Feiner is urging Metro-North to put up ads of its own in response to “inflammatory” postings in the Hartsdale station.

The ad in question, sponsored by the American Freedom Defense Initiative, lists the number of deadly Islamic attacks since 9/11″[This needs to be challenged and not just stated as fact–Ed.] and says “It’s not Islamophobia, It’s Islamorealism.”

Feiner says the ad can’t be removed, but is offensive. He wants Metro-North to warn passengers that the ads could be upsetting and don’t represent Metro-North’s views or that of the community.

“There are many Muslims residing in Greenburgh and in our villages,” he said. “They should not be discriminated against. the posters encourage hatred, discrimination and do not help the efforts to fight hate crimes.”

After lots of feedback — positive and negative — from residents concerning the ads, Feiner added that he will recommend the Metro-North donate profits from the ad to education campaigns against discrimination.

“I feel it’s not a violation of free speech for Metro North to put up a competing sign and it’s also not a violation of free speech if they donate the profits to an anti-defamation league or an organization that objects to hate crimes,” he said. “I feel that it should be clear that the people of Metro North and the town do not support this message.”

AFDI executive director Pamela Geller said the ad is not hate speech, but merely a statement of fact.

“There is nothing hateful, mean-spirited, or offensive about opposing jihad terror,” she said in an email. “Are the facts offensive? It is, as the ad says, Islamorealistic. Islamic supremacist imams around the world foment violence, promote hatred, teach children to hate, and exhort Muslims to gain a place in Paradise by murdering infidels.”

The MTA lost a recent federal court case to Geller, who sued after the MTA banned an advertisement, saying it violated standards prohibiting language that demeans an individual or group.

The MTA declined further comment and said its position has not changed on the issue.

Feiner is not the first politician to complain about offensive advertisements on the railroad: The MTA faced a controversy in July over potentially offensive billboards concerning the Israel-Palestine conflict.

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    • Chameleon_X

      What’s the matter, wimp, are you too scared to accept my challenge? Since you seem to believe that 93% of the incidents on TROP are “as advertised” in terms of being “Islamic terrorism”, then why do you find it so difficult to support the far lesser claim of demonstrating that just ONE out of ten incidents meets this claimed criterion? It is very simple, really: because there is no factual basis behind this naked claim of TROP whatsoever.

      So what you are basically admitting here by running away from such a trivial challenge without conceding your complete ignorance is that you are a screaming bigot masquerading as someone interested in truth. If you ever come back to this site again, I will not hesitate to remind you and everyone else of your spineless bigotry.

    • 1DrM

      Sounds good, brother. You could also upload it(obscuring the private details) to a file sharing website. Nothing like raw data.

    • Chameleon_X

      You are just chasing your tail, and on top of that, you don’t even realize when you are being ridiculed – how funny.

      TROP is basically making the claim that “Islamdunnit” with respect to crimes committed by alleged Muslims. There is no data backing up this claim, or even the lesser claim that religion was the primary motive, or even the still lesser claim that the perpetrators were Muslim in most cases. Instead, just a vomit list of crimes committed in specific war zones and other Muslim-majority regions is posted with the label of “Islamic terrorism” slapped on all of them.

      When someone is making such bald claims, the onus is on the person making the claims to prove them. The onus cannot be on others to disprove claims that have no evidence behind them to even analyze, contrary to your idiotic assertion to the contrary. Is this rudimentary data requirement sinking in to your thick skull yet? If not, then let me explain the obvious still further.

      The willful ignorance on your part is why I ridiculed you by making the parallel counterclaim that 145,000 “Christian terrorist” murders were done in the Americas in 2012. I am asserting (in ridicule) that the motive is Christianity in 100% of the cases in the same way that TROP asserts that the motive was Islam for similar crimes committed by alleged Muslims. This massive number of murders by Christians (or at least 75% of them, as you justifiably qualify) is a valid statistic, which you can find on Wikipedia and elsewhere.

      Now, my contention – again, in ridicule of you – is that I am right and you are wrong until you can show me the proof that the vast majority of the 145,000 cases were not done with the motive of Christianity (i.e., “in the name of” Christianity). You may prove a few thousand to not be in support of my claim, but hey, that would still leave one hell of a lot of Christian terrorism, now wouldn’t it?

      Let me know when you are starting to feel stupid. I am quite happy to continue embarrassing you until then, at least until I get bored of your clown show. What is so shocking is that you continue to see relevance in data that is 1) extremely biased, as you already acknowledge, and 2) that completely fails to back up the overarching claim of TROP that “Islamdunnit”. The only claim that the TROP site can possibly support is the very trite conclusion that there is a lot of crime all over the world, especially in politically unstable, war-torn regions lacking a justice enforcement infrastructure, from which the vast majority of TROP’s data is derived. Yawn … as if everyone did not already know that obvious fact already.

    • Nick Lynch

      This article states that the figures are a ‘purposeful fabrication’. If one has been supplied no data then how does one know they are fabricated?

    • 1DrM

      If you still have your email exchange with that neo-Nazi, do post it here.

    • Chameleon_X

      “TROP uses only legitimate sources from third parties – usually international news agencies” (per your previous post).

      Oh, yes, those same legitimate sources showed 145,000 murders (i.e., “Christian terrorist attacks”) in 2012 alone for the Americas, which would be greater than 15 times higher than the 2 year TROP number of “Muslim terrorist attacks” worldwide, which itself is bogus. And that 145k excludes the 1.5 million Iraqis murdered by U.S. Christians, along with the millions of others slaughtered elsewhere in U.S.-occupied and invaded territories.

      Are you that much of a moron that you buy into this idiotic propaganda? As Ilisha implied, any idiot with time to waste and Zionist propaganda money to burn can make a very long list of all the crimes done by a certain group like Muslims and then slap the “Islamic Terrorism” label on all those crimes. The entire premise of the TROP site is that it relies on an endless repetition of the same association fallacy, which – as yet another propaganda pawn just proved – is extremely persuasive to idiots with small minds.

      This Glen guy is running a hate site, plain and simple, and he is a proven liar. If you can’t see that, you need some serious help. I debated this dolt in a private email exchange, and I completely destroyed his juvenile “Islamdunnit” arguments, which is the implied conclusion of all his association fallacies. I proved his web site information unequivocally wrong on multiple points, but he refused to make any changes, contrary to his stated promise to do so. He is not interested in truth whatsoever. He is only interested in propaganda. And you are just the latest sucker to fall for it. Congratulations on earning your graduate diploma in idiocy.

    • Nick Lynch

      Ilisha, many thanks for your response as always, but I believe you’re twisting my words. I have never said that I don’t see anything wrong with TROP. In fact I actually agree with most of what you just said. I don’t like the biased sites which TROP links to, it is conducive to ill-feeling towards Islam which could lead to hate, potentially leading to violence which I abhor.

      If Polpot had said that 2+2=4 I’d have agreed with him, it doesn’t mean that I’d agree with his actions and views, he was an atrocity.

      Please please see the difference between me defending its views and me defending the accuracy of its data – that is the reason I asked you to read the link.

      I’m kind of glad you said you’re not going to spend much more time on this, I agree we’re not really going anywhere fast.

    • Nick Lynch

      >> ‘First, I’ve already explained to before that when it’s written, it’s libel, not slander.

      Touché! I’ll concede that point.

      But for the rest, I hate repeating myself. Please see this –

      As for the individual events, you can probably find the sources yourself to really prove them wrong if you use a search engine.

    • Nick Lynch

      >> ‘What’s right about it?’

      It’s accuracy, which is somewhere between 93 and 99.5%, high enough to be considered ‘right’. I’ve been through this already.

      >> ‘TROP says every kind of attack, including a crime murder, is a terrorist attack’

      Please could you provide evidence of this! (Loonwatch could not to do so when they carefully examined the reports last year).

      Now I really am beginning to go around in circles – Loonwatch admitted the violence was real, and claimed that ONLY 7% WAS EITHER NOT TERRORISM OR NOT ISLAMIC.

      You can express any opinion you want about the hate-site, please do, but to suggest it deliberately fabricates its results is plain slander.

    • CriticalDragon1177

      Couldn’t have said it better myself

    • Nick Lynch

      Hello Ilisha, thank you for your reply.

      Before I go any further perhaps I should set some things straight: I do not endorse TROP, I never have, and I certainly don’t endorse the external links it publishes, many of which direct to heavily biased websites. Neither am I a Christian – I frequently visit Christian-biased websites to debate all manner of things, including violence committed in its name.

      What I value above all is truth. I’m not stupid enough to neglect that when confronted by something so obviously as biased as TROP, that I shouldn’t exercise caution in interpreting their statistics, but I am yet to find any evidence at all that any of their statistics are fabricated. They can provide credible sources for each event, together with evidence the terrorist attacks are committed specifically in the name of Islam.

      It’s all fair and well saying that they’re biased and anti-muslim so they must be wrong – indeed Loonwatch thought this, but in reality they really couldn’t find much wrong at all.

      TROP’s ulterior motives in publishing the results is a whole different debate altogether, largely irrelevant to my argument, which is purely based around the accuracy of their data.

      If you believe I’m guilty of bigotry and duplicity after reading this, then that is your prerogative. I really couldn’t care less what I’m thought of so I have no reason to pretend to be anything I’m not.

    • Nick Lynch

      There were mass protests against the illegal war in Iraq, and most people, certainly in my country, were against it even though it removed a tyrranical dictator. It’s terrible about the dead Iraqis although I would say that 1.5 million deaths as a direct result of the war is a substantial overestimate. I read elsewhere that there have been 87% fewer violent deaths in Iraq since the war than when Hussein was dictator, although I suspect this is an overestimate too.

      As for this article, the figure is absolutely NOT a ‘purposeful fabrication’. TROP lists all of the terrorist acts in question, and can provide all the sources upon request. Loonwatch themselves identified only 7% of the reports as being incorrect, later debunked by TROP here: It’s based not on bigotry nor lies, but a factual representation on the atrocities committed in the name of Islam on a daily basis. Saying that other religions are bad too does NOT change this.

  • Guess

    Senior Carlos, I think it is time for you to start go read, ponder and reflect upon all the answers and links provided to your challenge, instead of replying passé idiocies. Maybe you could see something there

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