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Newsweek: “Stealth Jihad” is Paranoid Speak

By on August 13, 2010 in Loon Politics, Loon-at-large
  Robert Spencer popularized the term “Stealth Jihad,” and some in the Conservative wing such as Newt Gingrich have ran with it and are using it all the time. As has been exposed on Loonwatch and other sites, “Stealth Jihad” is paranoid speak and just another anti-Muslim conspiracy theory. Lisa Miller takes on this term in her recent article which no doubt will have Spencer, whose site is described as “a hyperventilating anti-terror blog,” in fits.

The Misinformants

By Lisa Miller Here is the latest semantic assault from the party that brought you “Islamo-facism” (circa 2005) and “Axis of Evil” (2002). The term “stealth jihad” is suddenly voguish among politically ambitious right wingers who see President Obama’s approach to terrorism as insufficient. If it sounds like a phrase from a military-fantasy summer blockbuster, that’s on purpose: in its cartoonish bad-guy foreignness, “stealth jihad” attempts to make the terrorist threat broader and thus more nefarious than it already is. The only thing scarier than an invisible, homicidal, suicidal enemy with a taste for world domination is one who’s sneaking up on you. In the words of former speaker of the House Newt Gingrich at a July speech at the American Enterprise Institute, “stealth jihad” is an effort “to replace Western civilization with a radical imposition of Sharia.” The term wasn’t Gingrich’s invention. It’s the title of a two-year-old book by Robert Spencer, whose hyperventilating antiterror blog, Jihad Watch, is cited and circulated widely on the far right. But the recent vicious debate over the proposed community center and mosque near Ground Zero gives Gingrich an excuse to use “stealth jihad” and its variants frequently—not just at the AEI but in an interview with this magazine. (In an essay on the conservative Web site Human Events, he referred instead to “creeping sharia.”) Gingrich’s like-minded peers have seized on the language, too. “Muslim Brotherhood operatives, like [Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the center’s founder and leader] are extremely skilled at obscuring … their true agenda,” said Frank Gaffney, founder of the Center for Security Policy, on FOX’s Glenn Beck show. “It’s part of the stealth jihad.” ‘A Little Intolerant, But Good Reason To Be’ Protesters for and against the building of a Muslim community center near Ground Zero talk about their reasons for supporting or opposing the project. Words matter, and if you say them often enough and with enough authority, they start to sound true—even if they’re not. Abdul Rauf, for instance, has no affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood and is an “operative” (another nefarious word) only in the sense that running a small, progressive interfaith nonprofit is an “operation.” As for his “stealth jihad,” it’s virtually impossible to imagine how such an event would—logistically—occur. Would the construction of an Islamic prayer site near Ground Zero inevitably lead American women to wake up one morning and find themselves veiled and confined to their homes? “The term is ever-so-slightly goofy,” says Geoffrey Nunberg, a linguist at the University of California, Berkeley. The paranoia conveyed by “stealth jihad” brings to mind the anticommunist campaigns of Sen. Joseph McCarthy in the 1950s, Nunberg adds. Just as McCarthyites imagined a communist behind every lamppost, the word “stealth” conflates all Muslims with terrorists. In a stealth campaign you never know who your friends are. Also, simply put, foreign words freak people out. “Jihad” and “Sharia” reinforce the sense among Americans that Muslims in general have an unfathomable world view. During World War II, formerly obscure words like “hara-kiri” and “kamikaze,” which suggested the “warlike ferocity” of the Japanese, became common parlance, Nunberg says. “There was this sense of being confronted with this hostile, alien culture.” The Japanese were “literally demonized,” he says. Gingrich has already used the mosque debate to evoke many of America’s historic enemies, comparing Muslims indirectly with Nazis and communists and even the Japanese. “We would never accept the Japanese putting up a site next to Pearl Harbor,” he said on FOX recently. But that is not true. Fourteen percent of Hawaiians call themselves ethnically Japanese, according to the U.S. Census, and dozens of Japanese temples stand near Pearl Harbor—as they have for decades. One of them, the Buddhist Aiea Hongwanji Mission, is less than half a mile away. “You can see Pearl Harbor from the roof, maybe. We’re really close,” says Wade Yamamoto, the temple’s treasurer. The temple allows people “to practice their religion from back home,” he says. Gingrich, a historian, might take a lesson here. After the attacks of Dec. 7, 1941, more than 100,000 people of Japanese descent—two thirds of them American citizens—were interned in camps in a shameful episode that later legislation called the result of “race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership.” Last week, a New York City cab driver was stabbed for answering the question “Are you a Muslim?” in the affirmative. Our enemies are dangerous. Let’s be clear about who they are. With Johannah Cornblatt  

Pamela Geller Falsely Claims Imam Rauf Made Comment “Blaming Jews” for 9/11

By on August 12, 2010 in Loon Blogs

Plastic Pam or Catwoman?

Pamela Geller accused Imam Rauf of “blaming Jews for 9/11,” which is just more lies from her and her cronies. Media Matters exposes their lies.

Geller falsely claims Imam Rauf made comment blaming “the Jews” for 9-11

Pam Geller falsely claimed that Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who is heading an initiative to build an Islamic community center in Manhattan, once blamed “the Jews” for 9-11 and said, “If Americans only know it was the Jews’ fault, they would have done to the Jews what Hitler did.” But those comments have been widely attributed to Sheik Muhammed Gemeaha, a one-time imam at the Islamic Cultural Center in New York City who  reportedly made those inflammatory comments after resigning and returning to Egypt in 2001. Center officials roundly condemned the comments.

Geller accused Rauf of making the comments with the following headline:

rauf

But in a November 4, 2001, New York Times Magazine piece, Jonathan Rosen attributed the comments to Gemeaha: “Recently, I read an interview with Sheik Muhammad Gemeaha — who was not only the representative in the United States of the prominent Cairo center of Islamic learning, al-Azhar University, but also imam of the Islamic Cultural Center of New York City. The sheik, who until recently lived in Manhattan on the Upper West Side, explained that ‘only the Jews’ were capable of destroying the World Trade Center and added that ‘if it became known to the American people, they would have done to Jews what Hitler did.’ ” Gemeaha reportedly made his comments to the website www.lailatalqadr.com and translated excerpts were posted by the Middle East Media Research Institute.

As Rosen noted, by November 2001, Gemeaha no longer lived in New York City. The Times reported on October 23, 2001, that Gemeaha had “moved his family back to Cairo” and had “sent a letter of resignation to the mosque.” The Times further reported that members of the mosque’s board condemned his comments:

Neither The Times nor the sheik’s associates at the mosque in Manhattan were able to reach him in Cairo to ask him about the remarks attributed to him. But colleagues said that if he made the comments, they would be a dramatic turnaround for a Muslim leader who was a mainstay at interfaith events with New York’s rabbis and ministers.

”It does not represent at all the policy and the beliefs of the Islamic Cultural Center, nor what Imam Gemeaha was teaching the Islamic community during his three and a half years here,” said Mohammad Abdullah Abulhasan, Kuwait’s ambassador to the United Nations, who heads the mosque’s board. ”It really took me by surprise to see this.”

Rauf serves as a member of the Islamic Center’s board of trustees.

Geller has since updated her post. No longer directly attributing the comments to Rauf, Geller now excerpts the comments, attributes them to no one, and then purports to provide “more ugly dirt on radical Imam Rauf”:

rauf2

*Correction: I previously wrote that Gemeaha reportedly made the comments before resigning and returning to Egypt. I regret the error.

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    • Daniel

      What a lying trash bag site this is. You would be better titled Loons Watch.com

  • iSherif

    God bless President Barack Obama!

Robert Spencer Watch: Elena Kagan Ignorantly Promoting Shariah Law

By on August 5, 2010 in Feature, Loon Blogs

Robert Spencer next to his Perpetual Serf Pamela Geller

Robert Spencer contradicts himself once again. In a recent article in the Daily Caller, Spencer is quoted as saying,

“[Kagan] would knowingly and wittingly abet the advance of Sharia, but she wouldn’t do it understanding anything about Sharia. She would do it out of her ignorance.”

Yes, because the only one who understands Sharia is Robert Spencer.

What a convoluted way of saying what he really wants to say, “Kagan will ‘advance Shariah.’”

So will she “knowingly” or “ignorantly” advance Sharia?

Spencer attributes Kagan’s fondness for Sharia to naïveté and liberalism. “There is a general tendency on the part of political liberals in the United States today to take a benign view of Islam and Islamic law,” he said. “They are generally uninformed and share a hatred of the West and Western civilization.”

Essentially, if someone disagrees with Spencer they are cast as either “ignorant” or “taking a benign view of Islam and Islamic law.” This woman has devoted her whole life to the study of law, does he not think for a second that Kagan might know more about Islamic law than himself?

Spencer’s wild-eyed conspiracy theories are then exposed,
According to Spencer, Kagan will be a willing accomplice in the ongoing stealth jihad — or the institution of Sharia into non-Muslim societies via non-violent means, such as the courts and mainstreaming Islamic customs — currently underway against the West. “The goal of the jihad is to assert the primacy of Islamic law over non-Muslim society and over Muslim societies where it is not fully enforced, and that can take place either through violent or non-violent means and the goal is the same,” he said.
More of the same old conspiracies. On Spencer’s hate blog, he posted this article with the comment, “Ignorance and naivete, mixed in with the fashionable Leftist contempt for America.” Is he referring to the reporter or to Kagan? He doesn’t dispute anything the reporter wrote and instead finds it fit to criticize liberals as being “accomplices in the ongoing stealth jihad.”

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    • Art K

      I am absolutely amazed at how people are still struggling to dominate the world with their religion. I think, in this “Electronic Age” that people are learning how to articulate their feelings in a discrete manner. Yes, there are those that are young and ignorant that choose to exercise their “Right of Free Speech” as given to Americans through the Constitution. They fail to realize that it does not mean to go around and deliberately hurt others with your wicked and sharp tongue. People lapse into deep depression until they die once the verbal damage is done. You cannot undo the hurt once it is accepted by the hurt person. How do you punish the perpetrator for hurting his family, friend or some person on the street? You can’t punish him because of his ignorance of human kindness and care for his fellow man. At one point or another, we must all learn to put our egos aside and embrace one another as loving family members. I happen to have a vast education in “religion” and it does not mean a thing because many people use their religion to cause separation and rejection in our human society. This is a joke being played on us by us, the people aka human beings! The young people today that are rude and arrogant are the by-product of parents that were polite and never said what they felt in a constructive open way. It is too bad. It is my wish that all wars end. It is my wish that all arguments do not occur. It is my wish that all people, civilized or not, learn to reason and think about the impact they have on the life of this planet. We have the resources to care for this beautiful planet and many people beyond eight billion. But, we must first get greed and jealousy out of our lives once and for all. We all have gifts for one another and when given to the world, amazing feelings of love abound. I am happy to be a human. I am happy to know many people that are considerate and caring for others. Religion, Race, Culture and Political persuasion are not the pillars of a society that can survive beyond 2025. True love has the power to crush all pain. True love is the healer of this world and our hurt hearts. Killing is not the key to stopping hatred. It is the hatred in our hearts that must be crushed. Hatred is the achilles heel of a collapsing world. Let 2010 celebrate the rise of the intelligent minds of all human beings hungering for a more sustainable non-coercive society. Love to you all, Art K

    • Sam Seed

      “Adm_Akbar00 Says: August 5th, 2010 at 1:14 pm May Allah fart on Pamela Gellar’s sandwich”

      Please refrain from using foul attributes for Allah, it’s not funny or clever.

    • Abdul Fateh

      I don’t understand how Spencer is still taken seriously. This is a man who was a Catholic school teacher in the Bronx for a while, and now he’s some self-appointed expert on Sharia. He should stick to talking to underage girls about “spiritual virginity.” What a guy. He’s plenty dumb too, one shouldn’t throw bricks when in a glass house. The same goes for Pamela Geller-Oshry, the 52-year old harpy residing on East 56th St in Manhattan in her apartment paid for by her criminal ex-husband.

    • Terry

      Robert Spencer is plain and simple a sewage rat. The only reason this individual without any character is doing this is money. There’s still a lot of money to be made after 9/11 for those who want to smear Islam and arabs. It also fits well into the Zionist agenda of dehumanizing the Palestinians in order to grab more land illegally and ethnically cleanse Palestinians.

    • mindy1

      i may not agree with Kagan, but Spencer is starting to sound paranoid

    • What do these half-wits know about Shariah anyway? In Al Azhar University in Egypt, it takes at least 4 years to get a basic degree in Shariah Law studies (A couple of years longer if you want a Master’s degree). There is no way Spencer’s highly selective “research” is any match

      As for the Shrieking Harpy, before she figures out the difference between Al Azhar and Cairo University (No, Pamela, it was not Al Azhar Obama gave his speech at), she has no business being considered an expert about anything.

    • Justin

      Mwu ha ha ha! First the ground zero mosque, then overthrow the Consistution! It is all going according to plan… (sarcasm intended)

    • Adm_Akbar00

      May Allah fart on Pamela Gellar’s sandwich

    • KnowingTheTruth

      I’m starting to think that these two fools ether have brain damage or lying is the only way to make money to support their mansions. You know what it’s both.

Anti-Mosque Protester To TPM: Muslims Hate Dogs And America Too

By on July 30, 2010 in Loon-at-large

Anti-Mosque Protester To TPM: Muslims Hate Dogs And America Too

Let’s get one thing straight, Diane Serafin told me this afternoon — the people (and their dogs) protesting a planned mosque in Temecula, California tomorrow are not bigots. It’s not Muslims per se that they have a problem with — it’s the fact that Imams are slowly infiltrating American society, hoping to force Sharia law on us all.

Muslim construction projects have been the subject of public protests nationwide these days (as we’ve reported), but Serafin’s demonstration is different from all the rest. She’s calling on people to bring their dogs and join in song tomorrow afternoon because, she told me, Muslims just hate dogs and songs. Of course, Muslim antipathy toward canines isn’t their worst offense, she told me.

“They hate Jews, they hate Chrisitans, they hate women, they hate dogs,” Serafin said. “[The idea of the new mosque] scares the daylights out of me.”

Still, Serafin insisted she’s no bigot.

“I want you to stress this — I’m not prejudiced,” Serafin told me. “I worked retail for nine years and I didn’t even know my manager was gay until someone told me. And when I found out, I didn’t care.”

Serafin is a tea party organizer in Murrieta, California — and the woman who’s helping to spread the word about tomorrow’s protest, which she says will see Christians gather outside a mosque in the Riverside County area. (The Muslims who worship at that site have been planning to build a new mosque and community center in Temecula since 2000.) Serafin runs an area tea party website, which she told me she’s used to help spread the word about tomorrow’s demonstration.

Here’s what’s really behind the Temecula mosque according to Serafin: America-hating imams are planning to build mosques “in every Christian city” so they can influence local politics, undermine our legal system and impose Sharia law on us all.

Serafin said when I asked why local officials in Temecula haven’t put the brakes on this nefarious plot by shutting down construction plans at the mosque.

“They feel there’s religious freedom,” she said. “And I know it’s there in the Constitution and everything, but everything I read says Islam is a political movement.”

“I think there’s a movement going on in the United States to take over our country,” she added.

With the government not lending a hand, Serafin says that it’s up to protesters like her to step up. Step up and sing. Step up and sing with their dogs nearby.

“It’s a dream,” she said when I asked about her confidence that the increasing numbers of protests against the mosque will work and shut down the project. “I don’t know that we can do it, but if we can make people aware maybe we can slow down this movement of Islam into the country.”

Serafin said she can’t predict how many people are going to make it to the protest, but knows what will happen when it starts.

“They hate song,” she said of Muslims. “So we’re going to sing patriotic songs, Christian songs.

“God Bless America will be one,” Serafin added.

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    • trailer park don’t lie

      Not all muslims hate dogs obviously, but it rolls of the tongue easier than 98.2% of muslims hate dogs…. Face facts, the reason muslims have left their countries is because they are backward and oppressive, so why bring those attitudes to the west?

      Bring enlightenment, not ignorance or you will be resisted.. Religions are mainly just an excuse for narrowmindedness… Freedom means for all, not just you…

    • Nina

      LOL? What an ignorant idiot. She seems to think that all muslims are like Taliban or something.

  • Dr. Z

    I laughed out loud while reading the article

Fox and Friends Attack Muslim Family Day

By on July 22, 2010 in Loon-at-large

Joe “nuke ’em” Kaufman was on Fox and Friends saying Muslim Family Day was a terrorist sponsored event.

Fox & Friends’ latest vicious attack on Islam targets Muslim Family Day

July 20, 2010 1:48 pm ET by Justin Berrier

On what is rapidly becoming a regular feature, Fox & Friends this morning continued their incessant attack on Islam. Co-host Alisyn Camerota this morning hosted anti-Islam blogger and founder of the ironically named Americans Against Hate organization Joe Kaufman to attack Muslim Family Day at Six Flags Great Adventure. Camerota called it “insensitive” that they would host the event on September 12, “just hours after the anniversary of the September 11th attacks,” and added “but what’s even more controversial are the allegations that the Muslim group organizing the event could have been involved in financing the September 11 terror attacks.” Kaufman went further, employing what is becoming a familiar phrase among anti-Muslim bloggers: “The fact that they’re having it on September 12th, I believe they are actually spitting in the face of Americans.”

So what evidence did Kaufman give to back up Camerota’s claim that the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), who is sponsoring this event, “could have been involved in financing the September 11 terror attacks?” His first piece of evidence is a message from former ICNA President Dr. Muhammad Yunus making “a request calling on supporters to give ‘material support to groups associated with al-Qaida and the Taliban.” Here is what Yunus actually said, in an image hosted on Kaufman’s website: “Remember fellow Chechnyan Muslims in Eid Celebrations. President ICNA Dr. Muhammad Yunus has requested all Muslims around the world to include Chechnyan Muslims in their special Eid-ul-Fitr prayers. We must show our spiritual and material support for our brothers and sisters being oppressed by Russian forces.” For Kaufman, this justifies making the claim that “they may be themselves involved in financing 9/11.”

In case the name Muhammad Yunus sounds familiar, by the way, that would be Nobel Peace Prize recipient Muhammad Yunus, developer of the microcredit and microfinance concepts.

Kaufman went on to try to associate ICNA with Hamas through more tenuous ties. According to his website, in 2006 ICNA was listed as a donor to the Al-Khidmat Foundation, a Pakistani charitable organization that, according to their website, “is dedicated to the services of humanity all parts of the world without any discrimination of creed, religion and political associaltion [sic].”  They provide funding for clean water projects, diagnostic centers, orphan homes, and other community-based programs. According to Kaufman, while ICNA was one of their donors, the Al-Khidmat Foundation made a one-time donation to Hamas. Kaufman of course has no evidence that ICNA was involved in the gift, or that their money was part of the gift, or that they had anything to do whatsoever with the gift. Kaufman has been pushing this connection for years, and even the Anti-Defamation League isn’t buying it. An October 5, 2007 Dallas Daily News article reported on Kaufman’s allegations. At the time, he was protesting a different Muslim Family Day at Six Flags Over Texas. They reported (accessed via Nexis):

Mohammad Barney, president of the Dallas chapter of ICNA, said the accusations are troubling and untrue.

According to its Web site, ICNA supports Islamic culture and education while promoting justice and understanding.

“It’s disturbing that they are writing false statements like that,” said Mr. Barney. “People have the right to say whatever they want, but that doesn’t make it true.”

The Anti-Defamation League – a pro-Jewish group – seems to agree. ICNA is not listed as a threat on its Web site.

“We don’t involve ourselves in that kind of activity,” said Mark Briskman, regional director of the league, who said his group would not participate in the protest. “He made a lot of claims … without clear documentation of those claims. His statements are problematic.”

So other than making what appear to be baseless accusations about an organization sponsoring a family outing, why would Fox & Friends bring Kaufman on to attack Muslim Family Day? Well, what he lacks in expertise or insight, he makes up for in dedication. What Kaufman failed to mention is that, while Muslims may be “spitting in the faces of Americans” for holding the event on September 12, he attacked the event in 2007, when it was being held on October 14. Kaufman and Fox also ignored that the reason why the event is being held on September 12 this year –the same reason it was held on October 14 in 2007 –is that it falls on the first weekend after Ramadan ends.

In a FrontPage article titled “Fanatic Muslim Family Day” Kaufman wrote of the October 2007 event:

ICNA’s Muslim Family Day that will occur on October 14, 2007 is nothing but a charade, created to spread hatred, but veiled in a way to make the sponsoring organization look harmless. Six Flags will play host to this dangerous farce. If events, such as these, are allowed to continue, more and more Americans could become desensitized to those groups – fifth columns within our borders that wish to do us harm. It is up to those concerned to speak out against these travesties that threaten our way of life.

He may have been on to something. Looking back at previous events, I was able to find evidence of ICNA members spreading hatred. Witness the horror:

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Pamela Geller Watch: Genocide Denier

By on July 12, 2010 in Feature, Loon Blogs

The “shrieking harpy” as she is known by many, Pamela Geller is at her business once again — lunacy. Now she is taking it to another level and reiterating her support for Serbian war criminals.

In another maniacal post, Geller writes,

Radovan Karadžić, the former Bosnian Serb politician, is on trial (more like a sharia court) in the United Nations Detention Unit of Scheveningen, accused of “war crimes committed against Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Croats during the Siege of Sarajevo” (now an entirely Muslim city, completely ethnically cleansed of non-Muslims.)

Obviously stating that the Hague Court is a Shariah Court is a lame attempt at deligitimizing the Hague and the UN. It is sad to see the depths that Pamela will go to white wash crimes against humanity just because its victims were Muslim.

She goes on,

(Remember that in matters concerning the former Yugoslavia — the media, the court, the prosecution, world governments, NATO, and Hollywood are a single conglomerate.) In the example below, the prosecution and the media attempt to twistKaradzic’s efforts to avoid ethnic cleansing, into a fiendish desire to commit ethnic cleansing

You see it is all a conspiracy from the whole world working in one unit to persecute Karadzic who was actually trying to avoid ethnic cleansing.

An example of Radovan Karadzic preventing ethnic cleansing,

“There are 20,000 armed Serbs around Sarajevo … it will be a black cauldron where 300,000 Muslims will die. They will disappear. That people will disappear from the face of the earth.”

The things that make you go hmmmmm? Karadzic really was trying hard to stop the ethnic cleansing. Imagine if Ahmedinejad said those exact words about Israel, he would rightly be labeled an anti-Semite seeking the destruction of the Jews. Hypocritical Pamela Geller can’t see the rank hypocrisy in her own words.

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    • Abdulmajid

      AND to all those who say about the war in Bosnia and the Srebrenica Genocide that “only History will tell the truth” I say, yes indeed it will, but it will not be Milosevic’s “truth”. Truth can be obscured for some time but not forever. Eventually it will out. And you can fool some people some time, you can fool some people all the time, you can even fool all people some time. But you can’t fool all the people all the time. And even in Serbia there are people who want to know the truth. A group of students came to Sarajevo and Srebrenica the year before last to see for themselves. Quite a few pweople in Belgrade made a temporary memorial out of shoes to commemorate and show their solidarity withthe victims of the Srebrenica Genocide. I have even read some very decent and reasonable statements about Bosnia from Serbs on the B92 website. Ultranationalism, chauvinism, militarism and adventurism have got serbia nowhere, as they did Japan before 1945. Serbs can be glad that they diod not share the fate of Japan in 1945. Yes, there were bomb raids but what befell Belgrade and other Serb cities is regrettable for those who were killed but still can’t be compared with what happened to Tokyo, Kobe, Nagoya, Toyama and let us not forget, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And of course it can’t be compared to the four-year siege of Sarajevo or the three years of siege and the genocide of Srebrenica. And nowhere did Bosniaks round up hundreds or thousands of Serbs and shoot them in cold blood, bury them in mass graves and then scatter the bodies to hide the evidence. Show me one single mass grave of Serbs from the war. Show me a mass grave where it is 100% positive that Bosniaks killed hundreds or thousands of Serbs during 1941-45. But you can’t, because there aren’t any. On the contrary the Bosnian soil is drenched with Bosniak blood. Everywhere. But even so the Bosniak people will not be brought to their knees and they certainly will not perish. Bosnia will not be broken apart nor erased from the map. The Cross will not chase the Crescent from Bosnia.

    • Abdulmajid

      To all those anti-Muslims (Islamophobe is just too soft for you) and serbofascists out there who still follow the revisionist Karadzic /Ilija Garasanin line and say “the Bosniaks did bad things too, they are no less guilty than we are”, and mean “The Bosniaks are guilty of the war” I say: You are not going to bury the Bosniaks, you are not going to tear Bosnia apart nor erase it from the map. There will be no Rechristianization of Bosnia. In 1912 or 1913, when the Serbs were on their genocidal rampage in Albania as is documented in the book “Albaniens Golgotha”, there was a photo in some French newspaper showing the Serb army advancing and the caption read “La Croix chasse le Croissant de l’Europe”. I have seen a headline from the New York Times of then and it could have been from 1992-95 or 1998 as well. Well, the Cross is NOT going to chase the Crescent away, neither from Bosnia, nor from the Sandzak, nor from Kosovo, Macedonia or from aynwhere elswe in the former Yugoslavia. NEVER AGAIN will there be a Serb genocide of Muslims. Indeed, there will never be peace in the Balkans unless Bosia is made whole again, unless the civil rights of Muslims are recoginzed everywhere in the Balkans (and I think neither Serbia, nor Greece nor Bulgaria nor Romania have anything good to show in this respect), unless the existence, identity, history, in short, all attributes of the Bosniaks as a nation, and the integrity and sovereignty of their country are not challenged, disputed and denied, unless a unified Bosnia with its Muslim plurality is admitted as an equal memeber of the European Union. And under its old flag. For the coat of arms depicted on that flag is the coat of arm of the House of Kotromanic which ruled Bosnia before it was conquered by the Ottomans. It represents the historic identitys of the landf of Bosnia-Herzegovina, NOT the Bosniaks! The flag of the Bosniaks is that of Islam, in this case, green with a crescent and star! And also the old national anthem says not a word about Muslims! I give all attempts, intentions and notions to subdue, put down, exterminate or in any which ever way to bring a Muslim peopel to their knees a complete REFUSAL, for it is NEVER going to happen! All those who dream of exterminating or subduing the Muslims or of ethnically cleansing them, and who use as a subterfuge the canard of the “Creeping Islamic subvertion” and teh “establishment of a worldwide caliphate under Sharia law and with forced islamization for all” as a moral self-justification for committing genocide I say like Milosevic and Karadzic you will FAIL in teh ende, and not succeed like the Catholic Kings, Charles V; Don Juan de Austria or Philip II. Those days are OVER! Learn to live with us moozlims and give us the same respect you expect for yourselves. Refuse to do that and you shall suffer the consequences and have not one single moment of peace. For you can’t annihilate all of us nor bomb or ethnicaly cleanse us all into submission. That is not arrogance. We only expect to be treated with the same measure of respect you want for yourselves, no more and no less! It is written in the Holy Qur’an that God “created you into many nations and tribes so that you may know each other”. Sixty-five years since World War II ended and there are still so many of you who believe that there are lesser human beings who must be exterminated, and that we are them. Well, may all that you desire for us come down on your own heads instead.

    • Abdulmajid

      Dragan, your friends tried and now by other means continue to try to exterminate my brothers and to erase their country and history. Don’t try to deny it. Whatever justifications you may have for the anti-Bosniak genocidal crusade your people committed they are worthless. I know the history of Muslim people in Europe very well, adn teh justifications are the same and they are just as wrong. It is all about hate and greed. Don’t try to deny it, and that you defend such people is pathetic. Whatever you may not like about Islam or Muslims does not give your people the right to slaughter them. Whatever wrongs your people may have suffered at the hands of others through history does not give your people the rightto erase them from their map and take over their land. That Serbs live in Bosnia does not give them the right to stake out an area for only themselves through ethnic cleansing. What one individual Bosniak may have done to a Serb individual does not give you teh right to declare war on the Bosniak people. Whatever Muslims do to non-Muslims in Muslim countries does not give you the right to do the same things to the Muslims living in yours. And you can’t exonerate your side of what you did. Even if the Bosniaks had managed to murder as many Serbs as the Serbs murdered Bosniaks you will still be guilty for what you did. But you, Dragan, you don’t count. It was Zoran Djindjic who decided to hand over Mladic (and he was murdered for it). Boris Tadic handed over Karadzic (but maybe that was only because Karadzic had become useless for him); Serbia tried to have Ejup Ganic convicted for war crimes to distract from Karadzic’s trial and the attempt fell flat on its foolish face; they even had to admit that they had Ilija Jurisic convinced on trumped-up charges and let him go (pending retrial but I suspect that too will wash out.) ANd how they screamed and whined when international justice did not rule in their favor. What hypocrisy! If the ICJ had delcared Kosovo independence delcaratiojo as illegal, if the Brits really had declared Ganic guilty, they would have screamed for the whole world to rescind the Kosovo recognition and to hand over Ganic; Now, since the ICJ and teh Brits didn’d do that they say as so often that the whole world is against the Serbs! And I’m supposed to erspect such a people? I will not! Okay, I do enjoy their folk music and their cuisine(with the exception of all anti-Muslim contents and all that’s pork of course) and I intend to feel the greatest repect and even admiration for such Serbs like Jovan Divjak, Cedomir Jovanovic, Nenad Canak, and all Bosnian Serbs who stood by their Boshniak friends, all those Serbs who feel revulsion at the genocidal anti-Bosniak crusdae And who manifested against it in Belgrade earlier this year; for the great poet Aleksa Santic; for the great harmonikas, Jovica Petkovic. Those are people who have their heart on the right spot. As for all those who took part in or approve of the Serb anti-Bosniak crusade, or who felt so unconcerned that they said “Let mladic finish off those balije real fast” or talked about the “rechristianization of Bosnia”- let their abide be Hell. Dragan, I see that like Pharaoh’s God has chosen to harden your heart, and not to open your eyes, as Marko Vasic did. It is useless that I ask you to stop your disinformation. I wonder what the Serb government pays you guys. Or if yuo do it for love then it’s even worse. Idealists can often be much more destructive than corrupt ones. But I can only say to the Bosnian Serbs don’t try to rip Bosnia apart. Oh, of course they will try some time. Dodik has been blabbing about it for years, the time will come when all his followers will demand of him to finally come across, and then he will have to draw the appropriate conclusions and take himself by his own word. But just as 1939 was not 1914, next time around will not be 1992. And that day will not be one of joy and celebration for the Bosnian Serbs. It will not be the Six-Day War either. I can see it now. Secession will take place in an athmosphere of great reluctance and funeral gloom. And of course it will be crushed, or do you really believe 1992 will repeat itself and that you will catch the Bosniaks flat-footed again, and deal with them so easily as you did in 1992? And are you, Dragan, then going to take up a gun and come to Bosnia to shoot yerself a couple niggers, er, Bosniaks? Or if you are too old, send your son, or your grandson? Believe me you’d rather not. You don’t need to expect that the whole world will approve of your ethnic cleansing. Don’t try to sell the next round of the Serb anti-Bosniak crusade as “fight against jhadists or inernational terrorists” either. Because by then, after decades of aimless, pointless, senseless, incoherent warfare with unclear and undefined goals and end, people will finally get tired of it.

    • Abdulmajid

      It is useless to discuss with serbofascists; as they have demonstrated since 1804 the only language they understand is that of violence. You call me juvenile yet all crude jingoism and Muslim-bashing I hear from yur side is much more immature. And there is one thing you should know: If the Serbs always say they won’t be “ruled by Muslims”; What right do they have to rule Muslims as in the Sandzak? or as they did in Bosnia from 1918 to 1941 (and then, as in 1992 they tried to destroy them? ) So, Bosnia declared independnce ewhen it was clear that teh serbs were going to destroy the Bosniaks and conquer parts of or all of Bosnia as they had tried with Croatia a year befoer? Have you ever thought about why nobody in the former Yugoslavia, not even Montenegro, whose population is largely ethnicaly Serb, wants to live under Belgrade’s thumb? ANd what right did Bosnian Serbs have to say “this area is inhabited by Serbs, it belongs only to Serbs, and if tehre are others in between we will get rid of them? What you did; throughterror , viole4nce, mass murder, rape, pillage, destruction of cultural heritage. And to explain it to yourself nicely and feel better about it yopu alweays say “Waaah, we are not the only guilty ones, they are just as bad, we defended ourselves blah blah blah” If we both had been liveing, say, in Zvornik at that time you would just have come to my door with an AK-47, shot me, raped my wife and daughter and told them tro get out then loaded your wagon with my belongings and set fire to my house, with a cold smile. Thsi is what Serbs did Bosniaks may have killed some Serbas in retaliatory acts, but they never made lists of Serbs, rounded them up, put their womenfolk in rape camps to which their soldiers would come for “rest and recreation” whenecver they felt like it, and most importantly they never roun ded up 8.347 people after hunting them like rabbits, shot them, buried them in mass graves and then dug up the corpses and scattered them to hide the crime. They NEVER did anything as barbaric as you did. YOU blasted the Aladza Dzamnija and the Ferhadija and countless other historic mosques. The Orthodox churches in Sarajevo and Tuzla and even in Bihac did not receive as much as a scratch. Yet te Serbs defend those massive crimes. And I say teh Serbs because even though I know there are m,any Serbs who are not liek that, like all those who stood by tehir Bosniak friends, Jovan Divjak and others, or liek Sonja Biserko, Cedomir Jovanovic and Nenad Canak, most Serbs who did not actually got Bosniak blood on their hands, applauded it or pretended not to be concerned. buitz tthe worst kind are thsoe who justify the anti-Bosniak genocide and point their fingers at the Bosniaks. True, there were unjust victims on teh Serb side as well, BUT: You pretend no Bosniak was ever held responsible or punished for war crimes against innocent Serb civilians, and that is just not true; but then you consider all Bosniaks who ever raised a hand to defend themselves against the serbs as guilty. You don’t seek justice and redress when you refer tp your victims, but use them dishonestly to delegitimize and demonize the Bosniaks! I heard ofa young guy from Zvornik by name of Marko Vasic. Some Bosniak criminals had murdered his grandparents. Of course he hated all Bosniaks. Yet, there was someone from Srebrenica who managed to convince him that he must not hate ALL Bosniaks, but only those who committed the crime . And he did, he went to find his Bosniak relatives, and sought justice from the court, not revenge. Some of you say that since Orthodoxy was there first they should submit to Orthodoxy. Let me tell you I’d rather be shot than give up my faith. Better to just suffer physical death than spiritual death as well. And you should know that I do not hate ALL Serbs; only those who tried and wgho still want to do in my brethren. By your talk I see you belong to the latter group. Actually I feel sorry for you lot. For you will never cleanse Bosnia of Muslims. No, you will not. You are not going to bury or expel the Bosniaks like the Christian Spaniards did in Spain during the 16th century. We will see to it that neither Milosevic and Draza Mihajlovic will triumph from the grave, nor that Karadzic and Seselj will triumph from behind the bars, nor Mladic from out of Hell. The whole bloodyx mess resulted just from evil opportunistic kleptocrats trying to wrench as much power and wealth from out of the people (not Just Milosevic and Tudjman; include here Fikret Abdic and others as well); of instilling fear and hate in teh populace through propaganda lies, crude jingoism and hate mongering; and using teh worst subjects areound as their execurtioners liek Milan Lukic and Arkan; the people themselves are guilty of willful ignorance. It seems incredible that they could turn onto their neighbors liek that with whom they shared the languiage and most of tehir popular culture as well. But then the Germans and the German Jews too sharred one language and one culture, yet when the latter were declared free game everybody turned against them. Just like you did. That is fascism. And liek the Nazis and many opportunists did back then, you just say “They’re evil.” The Bosniaks have learned their lesson. They will see to it that NEVER AGAIN genocide is committed against them. Should they ever forget then they would be to blame of being careless if they are wiped out. But I think they have understood you quite clearly. I always though that if people got together and talked TO each other instead of ABOUT each other they’d find out they have mnore things in common than what separates them. I know Bosniaks and Bosnan Serbs and their way of life and culture very well and I see they’re not that different after all. But it is useless. It’s liek teh fable of the frog and the scorpion. The scorpion asked the frog to carry him across the river: The frog said “You will sting me”-“Nonsense”, said the frog “then we would both drown.” So reassured the frog took the scorpion on his back and swam with him across the river and halfway through, the scorpion stung the frog. “What have you done? said the frog in his last words, “Now we will both drown!”-“Yes, I know” replied the scorpion ” but that’s just the way I am” And I tell you in Bosnia it is not the Bosniaks who are the scorpion. You serbofascists always say “The Bosnaisk fired the first shots” Even if that were true this was only a pretext. Your side had prepared everything in advance for MONTHS and they were just waiting for a propitious moment to strike at teh Bosniaks. The guns were in place, militias had already been set up, black lists of Bosniaks to kill or imprison had already been made up, it was all ready beforehand. Also at Srebrenica everything had meticulously been prepared befoerhand. Of course it was genocide. All Bosniaks from Srebrenica were driven out, right? after that, for many years there were no Bosniaks in Srebrenica. And it was a military decision too. Mladic himself said that if he had let them go, the Bosnian government would have armed them and hve had at least 4000 additional soldiers. But shoot the kids as well, so they’d never have children of their own? So you see, all your justifications are worthless. That you expectthe survivors and any intelligent person to swallow that BULLSHIT is an insult by itself. ANd since you refuse to give up Ratko Mladic, and expect him to die peacefully at ghome and “let history decide” I will trell you how history will decide: If you think that it was right to kill all those Bosniaks as a revenge and retaliation fr everything Muslims have allegedly done through history to non-Muslims; if you really believe that if my great-great-great-great-grandfather did something to yours way back in the 19th century that gives youthe right to go out with a gun or an axe and take revenge on ME, over something I don’t know nothing about, that happened long before I was born, just because I carry that name or belong to that family or that people, then yu are one horrible, evil, vengeful lot. But more often than not ghis is only a pretext to do evil, to take a plot of land, a car, money, a house or whatever and to rape abeautiful girl or some such; in short to morally justify a crime. In both cases I feel I don’t want to share this planet here with the likes of you. If the Serbs do not give up on Ratko Mladic someday, maybe in 500 years the Bosniaks will do the same things to Serbs over what Ratko Mladic did. And justify it with the same. If up to now they have refrained of doing so is because they have not sunk to such morally rotten levels as you lot. But then, gnerally as a rule, history has shown that Muslims have been less cruel to their enemies than vice versa. I have read a chronicle of the 16th century where a Spanish writer of that time admits that the Spanish muslims rose up not because of their evil Mooslim nature nor because of Turkish or Moroccan subversion but because their Christian masters mistreated and abused them in every way they could. Just as it was in Bosnia and in Kosovo in the 1990s. And just liek 400 years ago your side tried to exterminate them. And justified it with the same pretext. Way to go. I’d never thought in my time I’d see such a degree of cruelty as back then, and with the same justification. You have proved yourself to be a xenophobe and such people can never be my friends. I have a great notion that I do not wish to share the same sky, the same air and the same water with those who murdered my brothers.

    • Dragan

      to abdulla I didnt get tired of heckling you,just tired of your juvenile, unsubstantiated ,hate propaganda.My whole point in printing what I did was to get some info out to people,which I did.You on the other hand just kept parrotting the same old lies,thank you.Adios and God bless.

    • Abdulmajid

      Well it seems that guy whose name I won’t mention has finally tired of heckling me with continued new outbursts of the same old serbofascist venom, Bosniak-baiting and Muslim-bashing he so relishes in. Whew! I was already getting a little tired. But if he does not: all his denying of the Serb genocidal anti-Bosniak crusade which started in 1804 and of which the episodes of 1941-45 and 1992-95 are but just another chapter of xenophobia in the long history of xenophobia of this accursed and sick nation, will not make the Bosniaks go away. Will not make the truth go away. Will not make the anti-Bosniaks genocide undone. Will not obscure the truth and muddy the water. The Serb anti-Bosniak genocidal crusade IS FACT and it will remain FACT. No act the Bosnaks may have committed against Serbs can exonerate the Serbs from their guilt; or do they think if they say “some balije shot at the Serb wedding party in Sarajevo and THAT started the war” that it will make only one of the acts of murder, terror and rape the Serbs committed less cruel, violent, evil and unnecessary as it was before they said that; or why that continued blame game of finger-pointing and saying “all sides are equally guilty”: When those shots were fired, 1.)the Serbs had already murdered the Bosniaks of Bijeljina. 2.) Milosevic and Tudjman had already agreed to divide Bosnia between them “and for the Muslims – nothing!” 3.) the JNA and the chetniks had already taken up positions artound Sarajevo for over six months to shell it into submission the moment the order was given! They started in late 1991! I remember seeing them with tanks and guns and even throwing a blanket over their grenades, and young Serb men absconding into the hills with AK-47s in a news report of October 1991! And all the apologists of Karadzic can come up with his maps, his “Historical facts” and his other tergiversations of the truth, their dreams of Greater Serbia and their notion of “repluka srpska” splitting off Bosnia and the Croats again trying to get wise withrthe Bosniaks, withtheir denial of the anti-Bosniak genocide and their questioning the Bosniaks’ethnic and national identity and tehir right to exist, let alone their right to have a country of their own called Bosnia, and not just a bantustan consisting of disjointed enclaves similar to what the Israelis are trying to fob off the Palestinians with: the Bosniaks will NOT be the Palestinians with! ANd Dragan, you got it all wrong. I do NOT hate “the Serbs!” I hate only those who -symbolically or actually – have Bosniak blood on their handws! From the bottom of my heart! To my last breath! They must be made to PAY for what they did! With interests! With all they have! Withtheir lives if need be! To the last man! They must be given no mercy and no quarter! Milan Lukic the henchman of Visegrad was sntenced to lif ein prison! So what, he will be given leniency. He must die every death he caused! And all the other good-for -nothing THUGS and HOOLIGANS who killed Bosniask with him! And who raped Bosniak schoolgirls should be DRAWN AND QUARTERED, and his ashes SCATTERED! ANd if he has died an was buried in the meantime, his headsonr muast be SMASHED TO BITS, and his mortal remains must be dug up and burned! Any of his family whio still supports this man and his crimes must be brought to the border of Bosnia and made to cross it with only the clothes on their backs on! Their memories must be erased! I also haver seen the fascist chetnik celebrations in the previously Muslim-majority village where Draza Mihajlovic was allegedly born and which they renamed Drazevina! They all should be locked up for 25 years without parole in an underground windowless prison and expelled from Bosnia! Anyone who glorifies or defends the genocidal anti-Bosniak crusade should suffer in their own flesh all the vicious evil cruelty that serbs committed against Bosniaks! All of it! Until Serbia finally admits to their guilt against the Bosniaks and pay them reparations, and even if it means bankrupting Serbia for the next 20 years! Like Portugal was bankrupted for its aggression against Morocco in the 16th century. Ah, of course, THAT’S why they deny everything. Now you might think I do not want reconciliation and feel onyl hate for teh Serbs. Well, I do want reconciliation and for both nations, Serbs and Bosniaks to get again on friendly terms like German and French did. But alas, the Germans realized their guilt and their governments from 1945 on have at least TRIED to say they were sorry; old Nazis may be around, but Nazism, chauvinism and militarism were removed from the German political agenda. Among Serbs, what do we see? Denial and obfuscation! Then do not expect my friendship. Okay, Boris Tadic came and placed a wreath at Srebrenica. So what? Mladic remains free. Next time, Tadic should not bring a wreath but kneel down at Potocari Memorial. AND before he does that, deliver Mladic tied up at The Hague! Or better, deliver him to the Bosniaks! They should put a stone slab and heavy iron chains around his neck and parade him around Srebrenica and Sarajevo for one week and then have the populace tear him limb from limb! And please, don’t snip this off; for the most bloody war criminal of recent history, think of the most hideous thing somebody can do to another human being and even THAT would be too good for him!! However I have read a report at iwpr.net about a security firm in Banja Luka which employs Bosniak, Serb and Croat war veterans, and that they get along with eacgh other very well. I have seen on other reports that Bosniaks who came back to what is now “RS” and Serbs who came back to the “Federation” say “we get along with each other because we have to” So all the hate messages from the Serbofascists and all their talk of “Centuries-old ethnic hate” are nothing but a lot of tripe. But I warn them: do not try to erase Bosnia-Herzegovina of f the map or next time you will be beaten over your heads so hard you’ll never get up again. The Cross will NEVER chase the Crescent out of Bosnia!

    • Abdulmajid

      Yeah, Dragan, baby, and you should be in real life. God have mercy on your soul.

    • Abdulmajid

      Yeeeaah, yeah, dragan, it was all an Islamist-German-USA-Vatican-Jewish anti-Serb conspiracy, the Serbs did never anything wrong in Bosnia, let alone commit genocide. All thsoe balije only deserved what thy got, after all they’re islamicized serbs, turncoats, traitors, and it is all right and good of the Serbs to hold them responsible for 500 years of Ottoman domination of Serbia, of the Austrohungarians, of the ustase and all the rest. So the balije should all pack up and leave for Turkey or Saudi Arabia, and be thankful to the Serbs for not killing tehm all, after all how dare we dirty and lowdown Moozlims to complain about good and loving Christians? Yeah, and the Earth is flat, 2+2=5 and pigs can fly, Dragan. Why do you persist in your obtuse and self-serving accusation of us balije being culpable of your trying to exterminate us? Then do not complain that I see the whole Serb nation as guilty of genocide. As long as most voices I hear from Serbia do not admit to genocide and pledge to leave us balije IN PEACE, but insist that Milosevic’s and Karadzic’s crusade was right and must be continued, or at least its outcome “repluka srpska” must be legalized, why should I ? And it is no use of you to try and convince me otherwise. I am 100% committed to the cause of the Bosniaks and will so until my last breath, and not even with the most refined torture you can make me let go of it; even the goverments of Croatia and Montenegro have long since realized that it did not help them to claim any territories or populations in Bosna, and even Boris Tadic has pledged that he will not try to split Bosnia; so when will all the stupid obtuse chetniks give it up? Answer me honestly, Dragan: what have Bosniaks done to you personally that you hate them so much? And even if some balije HAD killed your grandmother or such: Do you really think All the Bosniaks are guilty? That YOU can bury the Bosniaks and erase Bosnia off the map? Do you think Dodik will thank you if you put your body between him and the balije’s fight for retribution? Then do not think the Bosniaks will be led like lambs to the slaughter as in 1992. I mean it’s incredible that you go to so much trouble to find this article again and again and pour new serbofascist venom on us balije. Do tell, will you be doing that one year from now? What do you think you will achieve? Make me say I’m sorry to the Serbs? Say that they were right to massacre the Bosniaks??? Do you really think you will convince me with your feeble and false serbofascist stories? Or that you will strike doubt in the hearts of some poor simple souls who don’t know any better? That is what makes me feel for you serbofascists the way I do: you tried to do in the Bosniaks exactly like the Catholic Spaniards did to do in the Spanish Muslims five centuries ago. What they did to Aztecs and Incas, and all other South American Indians! I have been in all those places and the traces of what they did are still so evident: to rob a people of their homeland, their freedom, their belongings, their identity and their culture, all in the name of a religion that portrays itself as being one of peace and love and tolerance and in truth has only shown those it vanquished hate, cruelty and destruction. All catholic Spaniards showed (and many continue to show) the Muslims only hate, contempt and cruelty. Just like the chetnik criminals in Bosnia! And you say your religion is of love and peace. Ha! I have had religious instruction in it as a kid and even THEN I saw the contradiction between what the church preaches and what it practices. Even child abuse by priests is nothing new. Evenback in teh 16th centuries the Morisco villagers in Spain complained how the priests sent to force-feed them Catholicism sexually abused of their wives and daughters: “all children born here have the same blue eyes as him!!” (and this is not Muslim propaganda, a contemporary Spanish chronist wrote that it was teh abuses by the authorities what prompted the Moriscos to rebellion!) See the Orthodox priests bless the weapons of the Skorpioni at Srebrenica is another example. Surely an Orthodox priest will tell some Serb scumbag who raped 11-year old Bosniak schoolgirls that his crime can be justified for religious zeal, and he need not worry about it, or some such. All the chetnik criminals who wasted the Bosnaks ansd who still want to “finish the job” and their supporters always brag about their crimes, try to relativize and justify them and in the same breath deny they ever did anything wrong! That is disgusting and insulting! It insults not only the victims of the Bosnian war, it also insults my intelligence! So push off, shut up, there’s a good guy, go fool around in your garden or something and STAY OUT OF THIS! You are not going to make war on us balije, and if you do we will see to it that nothing remains of you for your family to mourn! But the Bosniak people will not disappear, the Cross will NEVER chase the Crescent out of Bosnia, and you are not the next Milosevic either! And neither Milosevic nor Draza Mihajlovic are ever going to come back from the grave. And another thing: Naser Oric and General Delic did NOT run away from Justice the way Ratko Mladic still does! If justice did not find them guilty, nor did it find Ejup Ganic, it is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS to judge them! And neitehr ALL Bosniaks with them! If Justice did not find anything wrong with finding Kosovo’s declaration of independence legal – you Serbs instigated all these judgments; you would have screamed for the world to abide by them had they turned out in your favor; now they did not, you can’t just say you don’t recognize them. Such hypocrisy! And then you whine always about double standards! Could I have one of such dishonest characters as you are before me I would like to slap his face until my hand falls off, for his hypocrisy and his evil! And I do not lok down on Christianity. As long aas someone respects me in just exactly the same way he wishes me to respect him, I have no problem withthat. But if someone thinks of me as a second-rate human being, a terrorist, a criminal, that I and those like me should be exterminated or expelled (one of those morons wrote to me that I should be deported to Saudi Arabia and there we should be given only knives and muzzle-loaders and THEN we could fight each other. What an IDIOT! To pass this kind of judgment without even KNOWING what kind of person I am!) then he is the most destructive kind of person around: at the same time evil and stupid. A half-idiot. A moron. Because he does not lack intelligence, but common sense. I just wish to give such hateful persons back a measure of their hate so they may experience for themselves what it feels to be like being the victim of racist and/or xenophobic hate. Unfortunately the Serb genocidal crusade of 1941-45 and its continuation in 1992-95 is but ONE of the many episode of xenophobia committed by this xenophobic nation since 1804. The destruction of Muslims has become part of the Serb national tradition, culture and folklore, and anybody can convince himself of it just by reading Petar Petrovic Njegos, Ilija Garasanin and Ivo Andric among others. Bosniakophobia has become part of the Serb culture. I fear that it can only be removed surgically – with the same kind of surgery that was applied to germany and Japan in 1945. Serb fascism, militarism and chauvinism must be broken like that of the Axis Powers was in 1945. As long as it is allowed to thrive Serbia’s neighbors can never sleep at night. If Dodik tries to split Bosnia it will be the end of Dodik and of “repluka srpska”. And there is NOTHING you can do about it. Too bad I will not be able to see your face when that happens. Or do you really think that with a proportion of about 30% of people (and shrinking) in Bosnia you can keep half of it against the will of 51% of the people (and counting) Do you really think Bosniaks are a second-rate people who can be fobbed off with two small enclaves of about 25% of all Bosnia, surrounded by serbs on all sides, like a Balkan Gaza Strip? And the Bosniaks will say to you “thank you very much for your generous offer”?!? No way!!! The Serbs no longer have teh third largest and most heavily equipped army iin europe, and after havinggot such a bloody nose in Afghnaistan and Chechnya, the Russians will not come to Bosnia to do the bloody job for you, and Britain and France will not, as in 1992, again stab the Bosniaks in the back, not with the large proportion of Muslims they have amongst them. On the contrary, after seeing how uncooperative Serbia has been in Kosovo and how uncooperative the Bosnian Serbs are, Kenneth Galbraith’s viewpoint, that they should have inflicted a complete rout on the Bosnian Serbs as the Croats did, will prevail and then “RS” will be re-integrated into Bosnia-Herzegovina. THAT seems to me more realistic than what some fool blabbed about the “United Kingdom of Serbia, Montenegro and Eastern Bosnia”! Ha ha ha, don’t make me laugh! Only after the integrity and sovereignty of Bosnia-Herzegovina has been established and affirmed can a new deal for autonomy of all people living in Bosnia be worked out. Not just for the “three constituent people” (what about Roma and Jews, ha? Rudolf Hren, a heroic defender of Srebrenica who was martyred with the other balije, was Slovenian-German. Does that make him a non-citizen of Bosnia? He is more worthy of being called a citizen of Bosna than all of Karadzic’s henchmen or the Abdicevci!) Not by persecution and violence. Conversely, to nullify by military means the de facto partition of the country which the Serbs caused by military means, IS legitimate! And Kosovo has NOTHING to do with it! Here an oppressed population liberated itself from its oppressors! And the first thing a unified Bosnia should do is to establish full diplomatic relations with Free Kosovo, and a mutual military assistance pact in case of aggression to either one of both! You should be thankful that neither Croats, nor Bosniaks, nor Albanians are such a hateful and vengeful lot like you Serbs are! The Albanians have still not forgotten what Serbs did to them in 1912-13, and Croats and Bosniaks will never forget what Serbs did to them in 1941-45 and 1991-98. There is no need to counter with “Jasenovac”! We know how many were killed at Jasenovac and who killed them, and it was NOT the “over one million” your side always claims. Besides that, with Jasenovac you can’t justify the Murderous Serb spree of violence of 1991-1999. One evil can’t be made up with another. If the Croats, Albanians, Bosniaks and Kosovars chose to pay back the Serbs in the same coin, then only a handful of Serbs would be left. And the way things are, with all the serbofascist Bosnak-baiting and Muslim-bashing I read from the likes of you, I do not care for that very much. Dragan you always add an ironic “God bless you” to your heckler messages directed to me. For once, I will reply to you: May God open your eyes as He opened mine! And if you don’t open them, if your heart is hardened like Pharaoh’s was, then may God have mercy on your soul.

    • Dragan

      to abdul and other muslim fools

      “Ruder Finn, a PR company working for the Sarajevo regime, suggested to the three big American Jewish organizations (including the ADL) to back the Muslims. As Ruder Finn executive James Harff explained in 1993, “When the Jewish organizations entered the game on the side of the Bosnians [sic], we could promptly equate the Serbs with the Nazis in the public mind”

      “Norwegian news agency NTB published a report on November 14 (original in Norwegian here), which challenges the 260,000 number using information by researchers of none other than the Hague Inqusition. These researchers claim the actual death toll is around 102,000, breaking down something like this”

      “As it turns out, the ICTY’s entire case on Srebrenica rests on the testimony of one man. This crucial witness, Drazen Erdemovic, is the topic of a new book by one of the Hague observers. Germinal Civikov, a native of Bulgaria who has lived in The Hague since 1975, is a former editor for Deutsche Welle and author of a 2006 book about the Milosevic trial. In Srebrenica: Der Kronzeuge (“Srebrenica: The Crown Witness”), he takes a long, hard look at Erdemovic, with results Laughland describes as “devastating.”

      “Pathological Liar and Callous Murderer”

      Erdemovic claimed that he was part of a unit that executed some 1,200 Muslim civilians in the course of one night. They were taken off the buses in groups of 10 and shot in a nearby field. Civikov did the math and came to the obvious conclusion: even if it took 10 minutes to kill each group, the executions would have taken 20 hours, not five. A group would have had to be shot every 2.5 minutes to maintain that pace, and that left no time for “arguments … between the executioners and the victims” or for the executioners to “drink and quarrel,” as Erdemovic described. Yet he kept telling this story over and over to the ICTY, despite the fact that it was physically impossible.

      Here is Laughland, in the Brussels Journal, reviewing the book:

      “Civikov wades through years of evidence, spanning a decade, to show that in fact Erdemovic is a pathological liar, as well as a callous murderer. He was not a conscripted soldier who was forced to fight, but instead a mercenary who fought on all three sides in the Bosnian civil war. He was not forced, on pain of death, to commit the massacre, as he claimed in court. On the contrary, Civikov shows that his unit was on leave when the massacre was committed. He was not the victim of a later murder attempt to prevent him from testifying, as he also said in court, but instead a criminal and a thug who quarreled over money with his fellow murderers and who, by his own admission, is prone to blind fits of violence and anger. During his time in the other Bosnian armies (Croat and Muslim) he had evidently been an unscrupulous war profiteer who extracted money from people in return for their safe passage.”

      Having escaped from Bosnia in 1995, Erdemovic was arrested in Serbia. It was at this point this “pathological liar” and war profiteer contacted the ICTY and spun a story about Srebrenica. In return for his testimony, he received a laughably short sentence (five years!), and was given a new identity somewhere in the West. Read em and weep.Stop your hateful anti Christian propaganda abdul

    • Abdulmajid

      Balija, and PROUD of being one!

    • Abdulmajid

      Dragan and all other serborthodox christofascist morons out there, how unrealsitic you are. What you propose is a sort of Greater Serbia on a smaller scale, but you will NEVER get it. Dream on. Montenegro is not coming back under the Greater Serb fold either. They just do not wish to be ruled from Belgrade. Nobody who ever had anything to do with you people wants that. Don’t you see the pattern? And as for me, I am only giving you back some of the hate, or better, greed for plunder, that you people let loose on, and still feel for the Bosniaks. Who for the most had not done any of you anything. Don’t come with “the Turks blah blah blah, they were ustase and Nazis blah blah blah”. Are you serious that you can take revenge on ME over something my great-grandfather allegedly did to your great-grandfather??? Then you are one hateful, vengeful person, or just envious if I am in a better position than yours. Our Holy Qur’an warns of “the evil of the envious when he envies.” And rightly so! We see what Serb envy has done. You HAD to destroy Sarajevo becauise in a million years you woudl not be able to build a city like it. Exactly as the Muscovites felt only hate for the Central Asian peoples they conquered because at a time when Moscow was onyl a collection of mud and straw huts, Samarkand was a grandiose city. Likewise, what were the Spanish towns of the 15th century compared to Granada? A collection of hovels; that’s why they HAD to destroy it. Even the Bosniak FARMERS were literate, and many even knew Arabic and Persian; but your priests did not mind being analphabets themselves, as long as none of their flock converted to Islam (yet quite a few did. Nevertheless most Bosniaks are and have always been BOSNIAKS). And in the 20th century, a lot of Bosnians worked abroad, Muslim, Catholic, Orthodox, and they all made good money. It is what they made out of that money what counts. It seems that while the Bosniaks, and to some extent the Croats, were industrious – they bought and built houses, land, made beautiful and well-equipped homes, founded businesses, gave their children a good education – what did your people do? Drink it all up and squander it? Most probably. Such guys like Milan Lukic and all other of Karadzic’s willing executioners obviously were good-for-nothing BUMS, drunkards, hooligans, losers, minus men like yourself are a minus man, any one who reads your anti-Bosniak rant and taunts can see that. Obviously most Bosnian Serbs who killed or raped their Bosniak neighbors did so to appropriate their houses and fields, their car, their electrical appliances, because they fancied the Bosniaks’ wives and daughters but only as their barrack whores, because they enjoy cruelty, vandalism and wanton destruction. And their numbers were augmented by all sorts of criminals, hooligans and psychopaths from the Belgrade jails and madhouses, THAT is what the “heroic” Bosnian Serb army was about, and as soon as they were faced with a REAL army (which it cost the Bosniaks so much to build, what after the British and the French had stabbed them in the back) they ran away; and the Bosnak Benedict Arnold Fikret Abdic ran with them. (if there is a man who merits to be roasted on a small flame that renegade is it. He should never dare show his face in Bosnia again.) Their DEEDS have determined my feelings towards the Serbs, and nothing else. I feel the same for al kinds of Stalinists, and for the Nazis. United Kingdom of Greater Serbia? (actually, Lesser Serbia; it woudl not include Kosovo or Maccedonia in it) How unrealistic can one be. What kingdom are you talking about? Do you relly think the House of Karadjordjevic will ever regain power in Serbia? They will not, not on your life. Much less regain their old kingdom. That has been disposed of, on the DUST HEAP OF HISTORY! Do you think the Bosniaks will accept them as their rulers? Do not DREAM of it! And if Boris Tadic finally has accepted a more realistic view on Kosovo, for how long do you think will he go on supporting Dodik (who actually wants to become the ruler of all Serbs…ha ha ha)? Leave Bosnia ALONE! Go on skulking in your chetnik royalist memories of your granddaddy but DO NOT set one foot on Bosnian soil! What makes you think Bosniaks and non-Bosniaks can’t live in Bosnia? They did so for centuries. There never was “centuries old ethnic hate”. But if you persist in provoking the Bosniaks, in denying them justice and their rightful land, then they will someday apply your very own same logic to you. Then the great-great-great-(to the power of eight) grandsons of today’s Bosniaks, of the victims of Prijedor, Foca, Omarska, Srebrenica, Visegrad and thousands of other places will hold your great-great-great-(to the power of eight) grandsons responsible for what you did and they will pay them back as they have learned from YOU! Are you going to complain about that? Why is it that when you do something bad it is all right and when you get the same thing back you cry foul? If the ICJ judgment on Kosova had been in your favor you’d scream the whole world must abide by it, but if it was not in your favor (as it was) you will not accept it? And you whine about double standards? YOUR double standards! Accept it, YOU HAVE LOST! You have lost the wars in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo, you have lost the ICJ rule on Kosovo, you have lost framing Dr. Ejup Ganic, you have lost Kosova for your oppression and misrule of the Albanians; you have lost also before the courts what you could not gain by the force of arms, and soon you will lose the rest too, unless you finally ask for forgiveness for the evil you have done to Bosniaks and Albanians since 1804. You have already shown yorselves to be SAVAGES and BARBARIANS when you invaded Northern Albania in 1913. Who wants to share a country, a continent, or a planet with the likes of you? And if I do not damn the Serb nation and people as a whole then only because there are decent Serbs around: the poet Aleksa Santic, the harmonikas Jovca Petkovic; Sonja Biserko; Cedomir Jovanovic; Nenad Canak; Jovan Mirilo who exposed the genocide at Srebrenica. Maybe the righteous Serbs will overcome those who chose the wide and slippery path of fascism. THEN, and only then will I no longer hate them (except of copurse for the criminals and their intellectual authors themselves. May they roast in Hell) But if not then may that accursed nation suffer the consequences and get back all evil it has done. Now even in Serbia their leaders slowly begin to realize they can’t feed the people on nationalism and fascism while lining their pockets forever. They can’t continue doing the Milosevic thing; it has gotten them nowhere; and I earnestly hope the Serb populace will see that too. The only one who does not seem to realize it is Dodik. Or, it’s too late for him to turn back. So I do not think Bosnia will be shattered, because those who’d be so foolish to try would not have time to regret it. As for the Serbs’ negative image you are always whining about: you will not be able to get rid of it as long as you keep pointing the finger at the Bosniaks while at the same time denying and relativizing the Serb crimes (or your “heroics” as you prefer to call them). And as for the other Bosnian Serbs they have a simple choice: accept us balije, us infidels, us Moozlims, us jihadists and what-nots as equal human beings. Or get out. And the Bosnian Croats? The Bosniaks outnumber them at least three to one. Tudjman is not coming back from the grave. Are they then going to try something foolish? A modus vivendi for Bosnia can only be found through mutual consent. And for that, those who attacked and tried to exterminate the Bosniaks must realize that it was WRONG and EVIL and must seek the Bosniaks’forgiveness. THEN – and only then – autonomy and home rule for Bosnaks, Bosnain Swerbs and Bosnian Croats, and all others, with equality of rights and freedom of movement, assembly, opinion, residence and faith, can be worked out by mutual consent and in proportion. BUT YOUR GAINS THROUGH WAR, TERROR AND GENOCIDE CAN NEVER BE LEGITIMIZED! And you will no longer bully the Bosniaks around! If Dodik insists on doing so someday somebody stronger will come along and slap HIM around, like it happens to all bullies sooner or later. And you can believe me, I have a small daughter and if somebody dares bully her around I’ll break his arm, at the very least, and I will do this gladly, because a bully, cowardly, dastardly evil person who likes to abuse those who are weaker than him, as the Serbs always have doen to Bosniaks and Kosovars, deserves to be broken in piec es. And remember, now you don’t have the third largest and heaviest equipped army in Europe any longer. Do not think the Russians will come do the dirty work for you. After Afghanistan, after Chechnya, and not being able to control their part of the Caucasus any longer, they will simply not do it. And another thing, as long as most Serbs insist in Greater Serbia at the expense of the Bosniaks, Kosovars or Croats, I will forbid my daughter to marry a Serb. I will not accept him in my family. And should one of them think that just because he fancies her and she’s a Muslim, a balinkura, so he thinks he can do with her as he pleases, I will personally cut him to ribbons. With a blunt bamboo saw. Very, very slowly.

    • Monarh

      Sorry, my mistake,what I meant to say is The Eastern Bosnia.

    • Monarh

      Well,the only solution for the problem that is wide debated above is a quiet simple and the word is The United Kingdom Of Serbia,Montenegro and Western Bosnia!

    • Dragan

      abdul you are such a hateful person my gosh.Serbs dont have to worry about going to war with you people,soon enough you and the croats will be mutilating each other.For Serbs its a win win situation.God bless.

    • Abdulmajid

      You never give up, eh? The facts about the Bosnian war have been known for a long time, no need for me to prove again and agin to obtuse serbofascists what they already know (since I suspect a lot of them either participated in the Serb genocidal anti-Boseniak crusade, or know somebody who did) but always deny. Just a few days back one of those pigheaded obtuse fools said the bones found in Perucac lake were “animal bones” even though the photographs show them clearly to be human. But no, to the Serbofascists the genocide against Bosniaks was the Bosniaks’ own fault, there “never was no genocide”, Fikret Abdic (the Bosniak Benedict Arnold!) should have been the Bosniaks’ leader, Ejup Ganic is a war criminal (well, he’ws NOT, but Ratko Mladic is the worst of the lot and the Serbs let him go free; don’t try to fool me by saying “We don’t know where he is”; where could he be, in Jimmy Hoffa’s locker?) blah blah blah, and who like dragan says Karadzic is a hero has disqualified himself for any serious discussion. It is unfortunately only such pigheaded fools and criminals who hold sway in repluka srpska and they still only dream of bringing the Bosniaks to their knees or locking them into two landlocked bantustans where they can economically strangle them anytime they please. But the Bosniaks will not give up on Bosnia! And it is just as well that Boris Tadic has – at least he says so – pledged to Bosnia’s territorial integrity. The governments of Croatia and Montenegro have gone one step further and renounced any claims and intervention in Bosnia. When will Serbia follow suit and give up the stupid, evil and obtuse dream of Greater Serbia, of militarism and adventurism which has gotten them nowhere? All right, all right, there has to be a certain degree of autonomy for all population groups living in Bosnia, but through mutual consensus and agreement, NOT through violence, pillage, rape and genocide as the Bosnian Serbs did (and the Croats followed suit when Lord Owen tempted them; but then Milosevic, Karadzic, Boban and Tudjman had already conspiratively agreed it beforehand in a pitiful rehash of the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact. What ever Bosniaks did to Bosnian Serbs during teh war is like what Poles and Czechs did to ethnic Germans after 1945; I’m not saying it was right, but it is understandable and different from what the Nazis adn the Chetniks did). But if the Bosnian Serbs do not give it up, if they persist in keeping their genocidal creature, they will have to confront the Bosniaks again. Or do you think that a Bosniak from Zvornik or Bijeljina will say to those who drove him from his house, who raped his wife and killed his son, “glad to let you have it”? The SERBS were the aggressor in Bosnia, as well as in Croatia and in Kosovo, NOT the Bosniaks, the Croats or the Kosovars! Their pigheaded, stupid evil denial, justification, equalization of guilt, pride in committing those war crimes disgust me profoundly and I do not wish friendship with people who are like that, with the Milan Lukics, Radovan Karadzics and Risto Dzogos whom by their own statements I see most Serbs to be. Such people do not deserve to walk this Earth, and even the Devil would not want them in Hell. And then they pride themselves on being such good Christians and their religion being the one of peace and love. Ha ha ha! Well, I was born and raised in it, and even as a little kid I saw through all its lies and hypocrisy, but only the Bosnian war made me come over to the True Faith. I saw the war in Bosnia was no different in its aims, method and means, especially vicious cruelty, malicious dishonesty and mosntrous hate from what happened in Spain between 1492 and 1610, when Spain was ethnically cleansed of Muslims. In Spain and in Bosnia, Muslims have only experienced vicious cruelty and monstrous hate at the hands of such virtuous and good people who pride themselves in being good Christians. And not only there, in Palestine during the Crusades and today, in North Africa during French, Spanish and Italian colonialism, in Bosnia and the whole Balkans after 1804, and if the Bosnian Serbs think they can take on the Bosniaks again as easily as in 1992, they are very wrong; and shoudl they really try to erase Bosna from the map then may tgheir accursed nation PERISH! But teh Cross will NEVER chase the Crescent out of Bosnia! They could not do that in 1912 and 1913, not after 1918, not in 1941-45, not in 1992-95 and next time around they will have to PAY for what they did then! With interests! You think that the islamophobic West will stab the Bosniaks in the back like the French and British did in 1992-95 “because they will not allow Muslims to fight Christians” I don’t think so; all your bids to secure through murky political and legalistic maneuvering what you could not get through the force of arms have failed miserably – the ICJ ruling on Kosovo, the Ejup Ganic scam, which now that you have failed at getting what you wanted you don’t want to recognize, after they did not turn out to be the way you wanted them – what hypocrisy, ‘if they ruled in our favor then the world must recognize it, and if they don’t then we will not abide by them.’ Ha! you are pathetic! I am willing to respect Christians and their beliefs (and their religious buildings too unless they were built over one of ours!) – but only if they are willing to accord me the same respect. And who does not want to do it, who considers me a lesser human being just for what I am, who thinks he can spit in my face or do me mental or bodily harm just for my being Muslim, I am willing to give him back all his hate and then some! Didja hear me, all you fascist, racist, bigot, cowardly, mendacious, malicious, hypocrite, unspeakable, unprintable, inhuman islamophobic genocidal MORONS out there???

    • Dragan

      to abdula wow there was alot of facts and documentation in your latest outburst of hate propaganda.God bless.

    • Abdulmajid

      Dragan, and you are serborthodox christofascist chetnik scum, you don’t address any of the points I say. You only spew venom and hate, and I am giving you back some facts. What I say about Bosnia has been proven more than enough. You are as pathetic as the lot of you. Come to Bosnia and talk like that to Bosniaks, to those who lost their loved ones because of you lot, and be cut to ribbons. People like you are so evil and foolish they should be placed in a reeducation camp that would make the Gulag look like a kiddie camp. The Cross will NEVER chase the Crescent out of Bosnia, and if you lot try again to commit genocide against Bosniaks, or to erase Bosnia from the map, I hope you will get the thrashing of a lifetime. And know that for what you say I see you as guilty as if you had been at Srebrenica or Omarska yourself. As if you had shot defenseless Bosniak prisoners or raped Bosniak schoolgirls! For all I know you could very well have. You are all alike. Then I do not care for your life or your well-being very much. And no, you are not going to bury the Bosniaks! It is because of all the evil Sertbs have done to Bosniaks that I fell for them the way I do! And NOTHING that you say can justify such evil! May your god-accursed nation perish! May your hate of Bosniaks choke you and may any Bosniak blood you havbe spilled come down on your head! May you never find peace, not in this world and not in the afterlife! DOLJE REPLUKA SRPSKA! DOLJE VELIKA SRBIJA!

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Peace be on you

By on July 11, 2010 in Loon Politics

Peace be on you

A backlash against imaginary perils

Jul 8th 2010 | Tulsa

THERE are only 30,000 Muslims in Oklahoma, a state of 3.7m people, making them well under 1% of the population. That’s still enough to worry some people, though. Rex Duncan, a Republican member of Oklahoma’s House of Representatives, has just had a measure placed on the November ballot that would ban local courts from considering sharia, or Islamic law, in their judgments, a dubious first for the nation.

Mr Duncan describes his proposed measure, which would also bar courts from considering any other forms of international law, as a “Save Our State” constitutional amendment. He cites Britain, and the alleged readiness of its courts to consider sharia (though in fact it is only applied in some civil and family cases when both parties agree, and the primacy of the law of the land remains paramount in all cases) as an example of how prevalent Islamic law might become. Mr Duncan calls it a “cancer upon the survivability of the UK”, and declares that “this is a war for the survival of America.”

The odd thing is that no one has ever proposed making appeals to sharia in America. But proponents of this and similar measures elsewhere point to the example of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg, who has sometimes cited foreign laws in her opinions on cases before the Supreme Court. Opponents worry that such a measure would bring into question any reference to English statute, for instance Blackstone’s useful “Commentaries on the Law of England”. Since the American legal system was originally based on English common law, that would be an inconvenience.

The latest ballot initiative is hardly unique. Oklahoma has become fertile ground for conservatives. In recent months legislators have also focused on tightening abortion rules and weakening those on guns. A new law forces women to view ultrasound images before their abortions; even Texas balked at that one last year. The ultrasound monitor is put in the patient’s line of sight, and she must also listen to a description of the fetus.

The Republican-controlled legislature also passed a law that would have made any firearms or ammunition manufactured in Oklahoma, and remaining in the state, immune to federal regulations, including federal registration requirements. But the Democratic governor, Brad Henry, vetoed that legislation.

United States

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    • One often overlooks that most of Shariah is not codified by Islamic textual laws but enforcement of current standard agreements and contracts based on the Islamic texts demanding that contracts and agreements be honored. Most contracts and laws are based on Urf – or custom. The contracts and agreements of 15th Century Arabia or Africa reflect those values, and the judges of the time said that those contracts and agreements HAVE to be honored based on the text of the quran and Sunnah. As the customs change, so do the contracts and agreements change, but the Shariah standard of HAVING to remain loyal to your contracts and agreements does not. One problem that has fossilized the “law books” in relation to Shariah is that “itjihad” or struggling with the texts was suspended in Sunni theology some time ago. Not all schools have done this and now may seem more progressive, but this is only an illusion. The rules of 18th century massachusetts were based on the same constitution we have today, but we are no longer able to take disobedient children to a judge to be tried for disobeying a parent and be put to death. The Shariah is just the end effect of Islamic constitutional law based on the quran (the constitution) and the practice (restricting and expanding as a bill of rights). To judge the standards of justice in my previous example by todays “itjihad” struggling with the text of our constitution might make some to believe that it is an archaic and outdated document that needs to be revisited and reformed.

      Classical scholars in both fields give the traditions depth, but if either are taken in snapshot in past history, they would be deemed out of date and almost barbaric.

      Reform – I dislike the idea. Reflourish – I Recommend.

      I am sure that we can go back in time and graphically see where the constitution has been either overlooked or misapplied based on custom of the time.

      Equal but separate maybe?

    • Adam

      CAIR is more concerned with the treatment of muslims than a political goal.

      Compare AIPAC to CAIR and you will notice FAR more political motives from AIPAC thatn CAIR.

    • In U.S. vs. Sabri Benkahla on page 58:

      “Moreover, from its founding by Muslim Brotherhood leaders, CAIR conspired with other affiliates of the Muslim Brotherhood to support terrorists. See Government’s Memorandum in Opposition to CAIR’s Motion for Leave to File a Brief. etc.. in United States vs. Holy Land Foundation . . . et 01, Cr. No. 3-04-cr-240-G (N.D. Tx. September 4, 2007. Proof that the conspirators agreed to use deception to conceal from the American public their connections to terrorists was introduced at both the Texas trial in 2007 and also at a Chicago trial the previous year. United States vs. Askqai-, el al.. No. 03-978 (N.D. 111.2006).”

      The assitant attorney general in Oklahoma write pro-CAIR pieces in the local newspaper. I am unaware he handles or has handled any hate crime.

    • ConcernedCitizen

      “Brandi” is sponsored by Ann Coulter and she has ties to Nazis.

      I love making random statements with no factual basis. Everyone should believe me because I’m special.

    • robaby

      Brandi, just because he meets with CAIR to deal with hate crime that your followers engage in doesn’t mean he wants to introduce Islamic law. Moreover, CAIR is not an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas, they are an independent group

    • Oklahoma is quite smart to bring this to a vote of the people. Already, there is an assistant attorney general there by the name of William F. O’Brien, who regularly shills for CAIR in the press. CAIR, an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas infrastructure, was brought in to Oklahoma by Muslim leaders there which seems to have caused a divide between the community and Muslims.

    • Adam

      When i say islamic constitution i do not mean sharia law, i mean something like the united states: A constitution based on judeo-christian values, but the governmetn it self is secular, and democratic. This is NOT the case with Iran(if anyone is thinking it) because in Iran,t he real power is with the Muftis. That is not what im talking about with an islamic democracy. Once a constitution is made, cannot be touched by any preist of any kind.

    • robaby

      Btw libertyphile, Islamic law was never created so that it could be applied to non-muslims, for instance in Iran today, non-muslims are allowed to drink alcohol and sell it. I don’t know where you got the notion that Islamic law is supposed to be applied on non-muslims? They have the choice to choose Islamic law or their own laws in Malaysia, Indonesia, Iran, etc.

    • Adam

      @LIbertyphile

      Im not talking about bringing Sharia to north america. Very few muslims want that. Afterall, it isn’t exactly our country.

      Im talking an islamically based constitution in saudi arabia instead of a crappy monarchy, or an islamically based constition in Iran instead of Islamic law, an islamically based constitution in syria instead of a repressive regime. Would be alot better than what they already have, in predominantly muslim countries. The discomfort non-muslims would feel under a n islamically based consititution under an islamic democracy would be the same as muslims feel in north america, which is minimal discomfort. but tahts just conjecture so who knows.

    • robaby

      @Libertyphile

      How women fare correlates directly with how society fares overall. The complex and appalling stream of news reports describing Muslim women being punished under Islamic law for everything from wearing pants to not having sex with their husbands to being raped cannot be ignored. Muslim women around the world are being disproportionately abused using outdated Islamic rulings and ages-old customs, while men who commit the same actions often go free.

      At the same time, many small but important victories for women in the Muslim world have been won. In the last decade, women in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Morocco, Bahrain and Qatar have won political and legal reforms that would have been considered unthinkable a decade before.

      There must be awareness-raising campaigns in the United States and Europe about human rights violations committed against women. Ultimately, the realization of women’s rights in the Muslim world will require a multigenerational, cross-societal commitment to social change; the political will of international leaders, and the continued bravery of women who have fought, argued, lobbied, schemed, pushed, and badgered for women to enjoy life with dignity.

      This brief paper(http://www.mpac.org/publications/abusing-women-abusing-islam/abusing-women-abusing-islam.pdf) is an effort to expose how patriarchal and distorted interpretations of sharia have been used to subjugate women and rob them of their fundamental rights, in direct opposition to the central teachings of Islam. It is our hope that this analytical framework will provide diplomats, aid workers, and Muslims themselves with some crucial theological tools to be able to argue for the equal status of women using an Islamic framework.

    • LibertyPhile

      eslaporte

      I don’t know about Saudi Arabia but I suggest you have a look at the website of the UK Islamic Sharia Council where you will find a full explanation of why a woman’s testimony is worth half that of a man’s. See http://www.islamic-sharia.org/general/on-the-testimony-of-women-2.html

      The UK Islamic Sharia Council also charges a fee for Muslims seeking a divorce, the fee for a man is £100 and for women it is £250 because (they say) it is more work to process a woman’s application as her word has to be corroborated.

      Equality, Eh!

      You might also like to know that judges in the House of Lords found Sharia law rules on child custody to be ‘arbitrary and discriminatory’. (M (Lebanon) v Home Secretary ([2008] UKHL 64).

      Also here in the UK, a Family Court judge may find himself presented with an “agreement” produced at a Sharia council that gives custody of the children to the father which in normal circumstances the court would register and enforce. But how is the judge to tell if this is a truly mediated agreement or simply the woman’s resigned acquiescence in Sharia law which does not explicitly consider the interests of children?

      By recognizing Sharia councils as tribunals the UK authorities are saying it is fine for some British citizens to not exercise certain rights, even if UK law and tradition gives them those rights, and to accept deals that are worse than what they would get from UK courts with regular judges.

      Rights are established for the good of society as a whole, and they are often achieved only after a long and hard struggle, so why should a particular group of people be allowed to ditch any of those rights, against the wider interest of society?

      Why should there be two “justice systems”?

      They can only be a barrier to integration and encourage voluntary apartheid (segregation).

      For a summary of the UK situation have a look at: http://libertyphile2.blogspot.com/2010/01/one-law-for-all-yes-and-no.html

    • LibertyPhile

      Adam

      The point I am making in my analysis is that Islamic reform (as described by Esposito) is feeble and ineffective.

      Part of the problem is the need (as Muslims see it) for historical continuity and, for some, a belief that things were better in some distant past. Also, as I see it, there might be some flaws in the original product!!

      Regarding your view:

      I don’t expect answers (as you say, it is a different discussion) but what about all those people who are not Muslims? Why should they live by so-called Islamic PRICIPLES some of which they might not like? What is wrong with your present constitution?

    • Adam

      LibertyPhile:

      I read some of your analysis. You oversimplify extremists. 18 century is VERY recent. You thinking it’s a long time ago based upon your own lifespan.

      But as a historic movement, Wahabi/salafism is recent. Not only that, but it is not inherently violent(though it can be)

      Espisito is right. But when you look at the medieval time sharia was applied, it was far more human than many of the surrounding nations. I do not think it has a place today, i think we should have an islamic democracy(constitution based on islamic PRINCIPLES rather than set law)

      but thats a different discussion….

    • islamispeace

      Well, what else can we expect from rednecks? [Holds chin and ponders…]

    • Sharia law is not the same practice in the Western world as it is in places like Saudi Arabia. The Islamophobes (who ultimately want to ban Islam and tell Muslims their can’t practice their faith – and treat them as second class citizens) like to bring up harsh Sharia laws in places like Saudi Arabia. Yes – there are abuses of Sharia in places like Saudi Arabia – but it should be unacceptable to constantly point to Saudi Arabia and say “this is how Sharia will be practiced by Muslims in the West.” It will not…

      The fail to mention that Sharia is not practiced the same in ALL Muslim communities. The intrupertations and practice of Sharia are as diverse as Muslim communities its practiced in.

      First of all, here’s a Tufts University, comparative study of the legal view of domestic violence responses between Saudi Arabia and Morocco. Since Morocco has more experience with the French legal code, it has incorporated it into its own legal code, along with Sharia law. http://fletcher.tufts.edu/al_nakhlah/archives/Spring2009/WomenandtheLawinIslamicSocieties.pdf

      Here is the study of Sharia code practice in the Netherlands, by the Dutch justice ministry, which would leave Geert Wilders sobbing out in the cold. http://english.wodc.nl/images/1900_Summary_tcm45-266259.pdf

      Dutch Muslims practice Sharia law mainly as it relates to conflict resolution among “those concerned.” It is also a code for daily life as a Muslim. It is a mistake to state that Sharia is practiced the same everywhere, with the same harshness as Saudi Arabia – and that Muslims want to “impose it on others.”

      QUOTE from Page 3: “Respondents did not express a concrete desire to have sharia introduced in an official capacity in the Netherlands, as many of the sharia rules which respondents deemed of importance can already be carried out within Dutch law. More‐over, a majority of respondents maintained that sharia decrees that Muslims must follow the law in force where they live or, should this pose insurmountable problems, move away.

      Nonetheless respondents perceived a normative and regulating role for sharia in the Netherlands. Government, some respondents feel, is missing out by not using the opportunities sharia offers to, for instance, safeguard the position of Islamic women who divorced their husbands according to Dutch law, by also arranging a divorce according to sharia. Also, religious authorities could assist by confronting criminal Muslims over the latter’s behaviour and fear of God.” —

    • Ohh – let me say this too: This is, indeed a “war for the survival of America and the West

      –it’s a war for the survival of our freedoms and liberties, like the freedom of religion, as well as freedom of expression and speech.

      Mr. Duncan, like Geert Wilders – is the REAL threat to our freedom and liberties. If they tell Muslims what and how they can practice Islam, what other religious group will they target next.

      It’s anti-freedom tyrants like Mr. Duncan that are the threat to the survival of America and the West!

    • Of one of the many phony – and outright lies – that Geert Wilders is attempting to pass off is that sharia law is “taking over the Netherlands.” Sutch is futher from the truth! This was found to be outright false by a recent study which points out that sharia law is practiced among some Dutch Muslims, their families and spiritual leaders. There is NO desire for Dutch Muslims to force sharia law on others! This is true for other places in the Western world…

      So – are this ignorant Islamophobes going to enter the personal relationships between Muslims and their spiritual leaders and tell them “you can’t do that?!”

      Not only are they attempting to tamper with the freedom of religion – which is none of their business – but now attempting to get in a relationship between people and their spiritual leaders!

      Is the canon law of the Catholic Church next?

      This is about people calling themselves “freedom loving patriots” attempting to – once again – tamper with others’ freedoms and liberties!

    • LibertyPhile

      This is what Professor John Esposito has to say about Shariah in his recent book “The Future of Islam”

      “Islamic law (Shariah) is often portrayed as a medieval legal system used by religious zealots to oppress women and deny human rights for Muslims and non-Muslims alike. There are good reasons for this perception. Islamic …. has been used to restrict women’s rights and to mandate stoning of women charged with adultery, amputating the limbs of thieves, and prosecuting any Muslim who tries to convert to another religion for apostasy.(p40)”

      “Women in the West often link what they believe is the unequal status of Muslim women to the Shariah, and with good cause. While Islamic law served as an idealized blueprint and moral compass for early Muslim communities, today it is used as an instrument of patriarchal and tribal repression by retrogressive ulama and fundamentalists, most recently in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Pakistan, and the Talibans Afghanistan, drawing widespread international criticism and condemnation. (p154)”

      For more on Esposito’s analysis regarding Shariah see this review of his book: http://libertyphile2.blogspot.com/2010/06/espositos-future-of-islam.html

    • mindy1

      BTW, I think i meant to say Halakah courts :p

    • mindy1

      Out of curiosity, IF sharia were to ever be implemented, how would it work? Because, when you live in Orthodox Jewish areas, they have halachiac Jewish courts to render family, divorce and other family type matters. Is that how that would work in the U.S.?

    • David

      Such a bill would not hold up, anyway. Shariah courts are voluntary, as are beis din, Jewish courts, and function like out-of-court arbitration. If shariah courts go, so must the battei din. Or if sharia courts go, but battei din can stay, a legal challenge would kill it. Or, more likely, the Jewish community would finally step up and defend religious courts with no legal status — which is all this stupid fricking furor is about, anyway.

      Sheesh.

    • Adam

      I disagree with the left and it’s containment of guns. Gun laws tend to be made by those who know nothing about guns. Im not saying we shoudl all have nuclear weapons in our backyards, but atleast let those who know about guns and can handle them make the laws.

      Im a proud muslim as well, i dislike the american right. But Guns should not always be regarded as a rightwing thing, unfortuantly.

Robert Spencer Exposed: Gets Facts on Pope Pius XII Wrong

By on June 29, 2010 in Feature, Loon Blogs

This is still my favorite picture of Robert Spencer.

A while back Danios wrote one of his most popular pieces debunking Robert Spencer’s work. It dealt with a chapter from Spencer’s, Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and was titled The Church’s Doctrine of Perpetual Servitude. Spencer wrote a reply that basically skirted around the subject and in effect dug himself into a bigger hole then he was in previously. Danios replied to Spencer who has remained mum on the debate since then, essentially conceding to Danios and Loonwatch.

One of our readers, Paterfamilias, wrote to inform us that Spencer’s reply contained more factual errors. Spencer claimed that Pope Pius XII, though “controversial” was “memorialized at Yad Vashem.”

The record of Pope Pius XII is controversial, but there has been a good deal of misinformation publicized about it. In reality, he helped save many hundreds of thousands of Jews and was memorialized at Yad Veshem.

Oh really, a lot of misinformation? So much for Robert Spencer’s research abilities. He could have easily done a Google search to check the veracity of such a claim, but for a paid polemicist with an ax to grind it’s probably considered a waste of time.

The following article, Pope Pius XII and Yad Vashem, from Wikipedia makes it clear that not only is Pope Pius XII not memorialized at Yad Vashem, his candidacy has been repeatedly rejected for decades.

Yad Vashem, the state of Israel‘s official Holocaust memorial, has generally been critical of Pope Pius XII, the pope during The Holocaust. For decades, Pius XII has been nominated unsuccessfully for recognition as Righteous Among the Nations, an honor Yad Vashem confers on non-Jews who saved Jewish lives during the Holocaust altruistically and at risk to their own lives.

Yad Vashem affixes the following captions to two pictures of Pius XII in both English and Hebrew,

In 1933, when he was Secretary of the Vatican State, he was active in obtaining a Concordat with the German regime to preserve the Church’s rights in Germany, even if this meant recognizing the Nazi racist regime. When he was elected Pope in 1939, he shelved a letter against racism and anti-Semitism that his predecessor had prepared. Even when reports about the murder of Jews reached the Vatican, the Pope did not protest either verbally or in writing. In December 1942, he abstained from signing the Allied declaration condemning the extermination of the Jews. When Jews were deported from Rome to Auschwitz, the Pope did not intervene. The Pope maintained his neutral position throughout the war, with the exception of appeals to the rulers of Hungary and Slovakia towards its end. His silence and the absence of guidelines obliged Churchmen throughout Europe to decide on their own how to react.

Pretty damning stuff.

Yad Vashem’s official website has this to say about Pope Pius XII,

The controversy about Pius XII and the Holocaust is still open. At the end of his visit to Israel in 1964, Pope Paul VI came to Pius’s defense in Jerusalem. On March 12, 1979, Pope John Paul II met with Jewish leaders in Rome and said: “I am happy to evoke in your presence today the dedicated and effective work of my predecessor Pius XII on behalf of the Jewish people.” In a meeting with American Jewish leaders in September 1987 in Miami, John Paul II again recalled the positive attitude of Pius XII. However, his passivity in the face of the Holocaust remains a controversial subject.

How could Robert Spencer get a fact so brutally wrong? Maybe one day Yad Vashem will find Pope Pius XII legitimate for memorializing, but as of now the controversy surrounding his actions and inaction during the Holocaust continue to make the attempts of various Pope’s and advocates unsuccessful.

Robert Spencer should think twice before undertaking a task of disinformation, it just doesn’t fly anymore.

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Exposing David Wood: Of Mosques and Men, Pt. 1

By on June 24, 2010 in Feature, Loon Media, Loon Pastors

David Wood is a Christian apologist who attempts to save Muslim souls through his organization Acts 17 Apologetics and www.answeringmuslims.com. In the past Wood and his entourage, including Nabeel Qureshi, have targeted the Dearborn Arab Festival in Michigan for proselytism.

At the 2009 Arab Festival, David Wood made a controversial, and some claim one sided video that received over a million hits on YouTube which showed them getting kicked out of the festival. They claim that they were just engaged in free speech, whereas security at the festival stated that they were insulting and harassing festival goers.

Other Evangelical Christians criticized Wood and his group as being agitators,

“The Rev. Haytham Abi Haydar, a Christian evangelical convert from Islam with Arabic Alliance Church in Dearborn, said that a Christian group called Acts 17 Apologetics caused the problems at this year’s Arab festival.

They put cameras in their faces and were very antagonistic,” Abi Haydar said of the group that produced the controversial video that has drawn almost 1.4 million views on YouTube.

Just recently at the 2010 Dearborn Arab Festival, David Wood, Nabeel Qureshi and two others were arrested for disorderly conduct. Obviously intending to make a scene in an attempt at more YouTube success by portraying themselves as being persecuted.

Now David Wood, whose “love of  Muslims” seems to be akin to Pamela Geller’s (who he links to favorably a number of times) is joining arms with the anti-Muslim hate group SIOA in opposing the mosque and cultural center that is to be built a few blocks away from Ground Zero.

In the following video, filled with disinformation, falsehood and inaccuracies he expounds his reasons as to why he is against the mosque, and why he sees Muslims as a lurking evil attempting to take over the West. We expose it all in this series.

Of Mosques and Men

[youtube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxFzFIDbKpg 350 300]

10 years later, two groups of Muslims, the Cordoba Initiative and the American Society for Muslim Advancement are planning to build a Massive 13 story mosque right here behind me.

Right off the bat we see the disinformation at work, this isn’t a “13 story mosque,” (why would Muslims need 13 stories to pray in the middle of Manhattan?). The fact is this is a cultural center, that along side a space for a mosque will contain a theater, swimming pool, restaurant and other facilities with the expressed goals of promoting tolerance and mutual co-operation between people of different and varying backgrounds.

“Understandably, many people here in the West are concerned…”

WTF? Many people in the “West” are concerned? I highly doubt the masses of people in Europe or Canada really care about this particular Islamophobia-driven agitation, unless the “many people” he is referring to is the small hate group SIOE (Stop the Islamization of Europe and parent organization of SIOA) whose main campaigns revolve around opposing mosques and other anti-Muslim initiatives.

“…this isn’t an attempt to honor the victims of 9/11 instead, it may be an attempt to build a symbol of Islamic victory. Now, I have the same concern, but mine is slightly different, my concern is slightly different, it is based on a photograph I saw, while I was still in College.

While I was in College my best friend was a Muslim named Nabeel Qureshi. Nabeel showed me some photographs shortly after the September 11th attacks, and I found them quite surprising. Muslims were passing these photographs around and Nabeel thought they were absolutely hilarious. The first photograph was a picture of George W. Bush as a Muslim, and I have to admit that was actually pretty funny,

The second photograph wasn’t so funny, it was a photo shopped picture of the Statue of Liberty covered in a full veil.

Now, this one bothered me a little bit. The Statue of Liberty, the symbol of freedom and justice, covered by a full veil, a symbol of oppression and Shariah Law, now these two pictures actually worked their way around the internet and lots of people are familiar with them.

The third picture, is the one that disturbed me however, it was a photo shopped picture of New York City covered in mosques and minarets, in the bottom corner it said New York City 2006.

The idea was that the terrorist attacks had cleared the ground for the construction of new mosques.

David Wood makes some audacious claims that we are supposed to take as veritable truth upon his word. First, that the photographs he saw originated with Muslims. Second, that Muslims at his College were passing them around, (ostensibly in “celebration of 9/11”). Third, that a burka is a symbol of Shariah Law, and fourth, that the third picture was meant to convey the “idea that the terrorist attacks had cleared the ground for the construction of mosques.”

The truth is that all three of the photographs originate from a comedy website called “www.joe-ks.com,” (a fact conveniently hidden by David Wood in the video) which claims to be the “largest source of internet humor.” The site is definitely not Muslim or terrorist sympathetic, essentially it is a website that has jokes about everything, and a lot of the jokes lampoon terrorists and extremists, and some of them even lampoon whole countries such as Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.

For example one of their posts is titled Afghan Humour:

Q: What do Kabul and Hiroshima have in common? A: Nothing,…. yet.

Q: How do you play Taliban bingo? A: B-52…F-16…B-1…

Q: What is the Taliban’s national bird? A: Duck

Q: How is Bin Laden like Fred Flintstone? A: Both may look out their windows and see Rubble.

Q: Why does the Afghanistan Navy have glass bottom boats? A: So they can see their Air Force.

Q: What do Osama Bin Laden and General Custer have in common? A: They both want to know where those Tomahawks are coming from.

Q: Why aren’t there any Wal-Marts in Afghanistan? A. Because there’s a Target on every corner.

David Wood must have seen the original post on Joe-KS which would put the pictures above into their proper context instead of the deceptive context that he has created. The pictures weren’t created or disseminated by Muslims after 9/11 as a means of celebrating or “dealing with the tragedy through humor”, in fact the post that first contained the pictures was lampooning terrorists. The post published in October 2001 was titled, If the Taliban wins the War #1, #2, #3.

David Wood makes a claim that Muslims were passing these pictures around when the truth is they were created by and disseminated by non-Muslims who were making fun of terrorists and extremists. He doesn’t provide any evidence of Muslims passing these pictures out, instead we are supposed to take him at his word.

In reality it is a clever ploy that omits the fact that not only were Muslims also victims of 9/11 but all major American Muslim organizations condemned the attack in the strongest possible terms. However, he wants to caste Muslims in a dehumanized image: ‘they are not part of our suffering, in fact they are mocking our suffering and enjoy and support 9/11.’

His disingenuous claim that the third picture is meant by Muslims to convey the idea “that the terrorist attacks had cleared the ground for the construction of mosques” is a cynical attempt to link the humor piece deriding the Taliban to the current construction of the Cordoba Cultural Center.

He attempts to instill in the minds of his watchers the idea that this was the plan all along. In doing so he asserts the interesting, if off the wall conspiracy theory that Osama Bin Laden was somehow in cahoots with the founder of the Cordoba Initiative Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, (a Sufi Imam who has condemned Bin Laden and supported the War in Afghanistan).

You see, the plan all along to subvert and take over the West was that Bin Laden’s goons would fly planes into the Twin Towers, then ten years later Imam Abdul Rauf, (who has never spoken to or met Bin Laden) would telepathically (through secret Muslim Taqqiyah radar) communicate with Bin Laden to receive orders to stealthily build a gigantic 13 story Mosque a few blocks away from Ground Zero!

Stay tuned for part 2…

 

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    • Read Carefully

      Are U Serious– While it IS true they have the right to speak, they do NOT have the right to film others without their consent. That is the right to privacy. Furthermore, freedom of speech is also limited in many cases. When you are attempting to use your speech as propaganda or even disseminate it as fact, speech is limited (look at the FCC). Lastly, you can not under any circumstance, use freedom of speech to insight chaos or slander others. Since Wood et al. were arrested under charges of disorderly conduct, that is exactly why they are not protected under the first amendment. You waive those rights as soon as your intent is to cause a scene or inflame a situation.

    • Are U Serious

      Guys, it seems you all have a low opinion of david Wood and his friends. Yes, you may catch them at many lies, you may call them jerks (I think they are jerks), but I would also like to ask you to do two things. 1. Watch his video. You’ll see he and his friends are jerks. But then, 2. Read the first amendment of the US Constitution. Then, tell us all that they were breaking the law when they were arrested, twice, for doing nothing moore than talking and filming as they were talking. They may be jerks and even liars, but the video does not lie. This is still the US, and people have the right to talk and film. Had they been promoting a liberal agenda, you guys would be screaming bloody murder over this. Come on guys, try to be more objective. They may be jerks, but they have a right to speak and film.

    • Qasim Rashid

      You know what’s amazing to me is that loonwatch.com is self described as “hate-allergic bloggers,” yet you folks have no problem placing a hate filled disclaimer at the bottom of your article?

      How are you any different than David Wood, I wonder? Yes, Ahmadi Muslims are Muslims who believe Imam Mahdi and Messih has come. They differ in belief than you.

      Why does that give you the right to endorse such a hate filled statement, and then not at the very least ask those commenting on here to not question another person’s Iman?

      How about that, on one hand you ridicule David Wood for being a bigot, and then you go ahead and do the exact same thing yourself to a (peaceful) group of Muslims just because you don’t agree with their beliefs.

      So much for being allergic to hate.

      NOTE BY Garibaldi [5/1/2012]

      @ Qasim Rashid:

      Your comment was noticed by me today (since this article was referenced in today’s featured piece). The disclaimer was inappropriate and was not consistent with LoonWatch’s views. Therefore, the disclaimer was removed.

      I realize that this is two years late, but I sincerely apologize for this slip-up. The article underwent multiple edits by more than one author, and the disclaimer was added afterward when I took reader input in the comments section too uncritically.

      To be clear, LoonWatch does not play the game of deciding who is a Muslim and who is not. Furthermore, LW recognizes the persecution of Ahmadis throughout the world and we stand in solidarity with them. We also support the repeal of anti-Ahmadi legislation in Pakistan, in particular the official governmental decree castigating them as non-Muslims, which is no doubt a great source of discrimination against them.

      -LW

    • DrM

      @TYO,

      Commenting before reading as usual, eh troll? You’re trying too hard, not as hard as your lame attempt to pin Hitler’s popularity in India(85% of whose population is Hindu) on Muslims. Noboddy’s checking religions at the door, I went to an Arab festival years ago in California and they even had a booth run by Scientology. David Wood and his group of thugs were rightly kicked out, not for being Christians but for being a bunch of confrontational trouble makers.

    • Charisma Magazine wrote an article about Christians proselytizing Muslims in Dearborn, and it includes some pretty damning quotes from Christians in Dearborn who are absolutely NOT thrilled with David Wood and Acts 17 Apologetics.

      http://www.charismamag.com/index.php/news/28835-charismatic-pastor-says-michigan-muslims-open-to-gospel-

      Here’s a taste:

      “It really discredits us as a Christian when we make claim that Shariah law is being implemented in Dearborn,” said pastor Haytham Abi-Haydar of Arabic Fellowship Alliance Church, who has ministered in Dearborn for more than a decade. “Any guy above 50 percent IQ score would know that that’s not true. So our credibility in the community is being compromised. Second, we are being perceived as hostile. We evangelical Christians are coming across as [if] we are out to get [Muslims].”

      Christian groups have evangelized at the festival for years without incident, said Scott R. Cherry, a minister who has served among Muslims in Dearborn for 13 years. He said at this and previous festivals evangelical author Josh McDowell and several Arab Christian ministries have reserved booths to distribute evangelistic pamphlets in an area reserved for such groups.

      “I’ve been one to walk away from the restricted table, to push the envelope, and I’ve found that if I’m not aggressive, if I’m not obnoxious, nobody has bothered me,” Cherry said. “And if they have, they have asked me to go back to my table area. At which point I say I’m OK with that.”

      “But the way that Acts 17 does it, they want to attract hostility, they want to attract negative attention,” he added. “They want to get the authorities to surround them so they can say this is evidence of Shariah law.”

      My suspicions confirmed!

    • Garibaldi

      regarding the disclaimer that you added about Ahmadi’s, i just want to mention that the Alawai’s (Wafa Sultan is/was one) are also considered heretics because they believe in other God’s too. Thus these two sects and a few others are considered apostate sects.

      Also, in Judaism, the Messianics who believe in Jesus as God, but call themselves Jewish, are in reality an Evangelical or Southern Baptist sub sect. They’re not Jewish, but call themselves Jewish, and are considered apostates because they give divinity to a man and as such like Ahmadi’s claim to be a persectuted minority when the reality is they wouldn’t be if they did not pretend to be Jewish. The same with Alawi’s and Ahmadi’s, if they didnt’ call themselves Muslim, they wouldnt be persecuted.

    • TYO

      Is it an Arab Festival or an Arab Muslim festival? Arabs are of several faiths. If this is an Arab festival then Arabs who follow Judaim, Christianity and Islam should all be welcome, as well as Arabs who follow other religions. There are Arab Buddhists you know.

    • Sir David ( Illuminati membership number 5:32)

      Dan muslims belive that Mohammed was the last messanger of god, the Ahmadis believe otherwise thus many muslims believe them to be heratics. As someone who was brought up as a christian in a christain country I believe the JWs are child murders because along with other loony sects that deny there children modern medical treatment and as a result some needlessly die . I would rather my neighbour was a sunni muslim anyday than one of those loons. I wonder what Bob and Pam would say if some muslims esposed those views. The Koran is very clear about the fate of child killers and I certainly go along with that part of it .

    • Excellent work ! just today I was wondering how come Loons like Wood aren’t on this website ? You just made my day ! looking forward for part 2.

    • David Wood is now soliciting money on his blog so he can take his aggropreaching show to Chicago next weekend for the Islamic Society of North America’s annual convention. Of course, he had to spend another $500 for a new camera since the Dearborn police refused to give his back. He also says the Chicago police respect his rights–which begs the question, why does he need a new camera except for publicity?

    • IbnAbuTalib

      David Wood is at it again! This man has no shame whatsoever.

      http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2010/06/support-acts-17-trip-to-isna.html

      I hope those Muslims who are attending this event will bring their own cameras and record all of the thuggery perpetrated by Wood and his groupies in the name of peaceful debate. Since that foul mouth Sam Shamoun is accompanying them, you can expect anything but peace from their side.

      As Allah says in the Quran, “When it is said to them: ‘Make not mischief on the earth,’they say: ‘Why, we only Want to make peace!’” (2:11)

    • Jack

      The bizarre thing is: the same pictures David Wood adresses as being thought of as a hoot by Muslims, are being spread by islamophobes across the web to convey the idea that George W. Bush was a dhimmi, and that America is being islamized.

      So if islamophobes send this material around, smirking about it, saying to one another this illustrates quite well what the US is really like, that’s just common sense or something; but if Muslims send the same material around grinning about the silly conspiracy theories some people entertain, it’s proof they carry a secret agenda and are radicals at heart.

    • Dizz

      These Christians fail to open up to new cultures, even after Pope John Paul II accepted Muslims as followers of God and prayed in a Mosque and even kissed a Quran (Note that Catholics once considered Muslims to be “heathens” and “pagans”)

      If Catholic Church can accept opinions other than its own, its about time Woody dropped his act.

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Israel Withdraws Islamophobic Claim that Flotilla Linked to Terrorists

By on June 7, 2010 in Feature, Loon Politics

Israeli commandos illegally raid the Freedom Flotilla, ensuring that the Gazans are “put on a diet”

One of the common ways in which Islamophobia manifests itself in the public discourse is when far right wingers, extreme Zionists, and Islamophobes label a Muslim a “terrorist” in order to discredit that person’s legitimate criticisms.  Alternatively, and perhaps more commonly, these bigots don’t go that far but instead suffice themselves by claiming that the Muslim is “linked” to terrorists.  They will, for example, claim that so-and-so is associated with Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.  Very little proof is needed to make such claims; instead of providing actual evidence, the usual tactic is to provide tangential and circumstantial “proof” and to simply repeat the charge again and again.

If a lie is repeated enough, it begins to stick.  It is not dissimilar to what the right wing did to ACORN, when they launched spurious, sensationalist, and absolutely preposterous charges against the organization in order to demonize it.  Even though there was no basis for these allegations, ACORN was eventually forced to disband.  Similarly, countless Muslims and Islamic organizations have been discredited using this very same tactic.  At the very least, these Muslims and Islamic organizations are forced to dedicate all their (very limited) time and resources to countering the negative propaganda waged against them.

Islamophobes can use six degrees of separation to link virtually any Muslim to terrorists.  In fact, they even smeared poor Rima Fakih–winner of the Miss America contest–accusing her of being linked to Hezbollah.  If a Muslim-sounding name prevents you from being a bikini-clad stripper pole beauty pageant winner, then you can imagine how easy it is to smear Muslims who speak up against the far right wing, extremist Zionists, and Islamophobes–or those who would more daringly question the United States government…or in this case those who try to breach the illegal and inhumane Israeli blockade of Gaza.  Being a Muslim has become a huge liability, as you open yourself to all sorts of crazy accusations by the bigots.

So when the Freedom Flotilla, which had on board many Muslims, was illegally attacked by Israeli commandos, it was all too easy for the Israeli PR machine to claim that those on board were terrorists–or at least linked to terrorists.  Was there any evidence to support such a claim?  Of course not.  But such claims are taken seriously only because Islamophobia runs rampant.  If an Israeli says a Muslim is a terrorist, then it must be true, right?  Because Israelis are Jews, and Jews are the good guys.  Conversely, Muslims are terrorists–well, at least all terrorists are Muslims, right?  Such endemic bigotry is the equivalent of a white man assaulting a black guy, and then claiming in court–without any proof whatsoever–that the black guy was a criminal.  After all, black men are criminals, right?

The terrorist smear against the Freedom Flotilla was propagated all over the media, such that it became common for people to associate the people onboard the ships with terrorists.  Now, after the flotilla raid no longer dominates the headlines, the Israeli PR machine quietly withdraws its ill-founded and baseless claims. (The damage is already done after all.) The Israelis have confessed that they have no evidence to back up their allegation.  This is hardly surprising, considering that Israel tends to call whoever is killed by its missiles to be “terrorists.”  It’s quite clear that you don’t need evidence to accuse Muslims of terrorism.

The prevalence of Islamophobia in the U.S. can be gauged by the muted public reaction (or in this case, lack of reaction) after hearing of the brutal execution of a U.S. citizen by Israeli commandos.  Mr. Furqan Dogan was shot once in the chest and four times in the head at close range. Cenk Uygur writes:

The Israeli commandos that boarded the Free Gaza Flotilla shot Furkan Dogan once in the chest and four times in the head at close range. Was he still resisting after the third head shot? Did five different commandos happen to shoot him all at the same time in the middle of the night with stunning accuracy? No, someone shot Dogan at close range and did so enough times to make sure he was dead well after there might have been any resistance. That’s generally known as an execution.

Dogan is an American citizen. That’s an uncomfortable fact for a lot of people, especially for our politicians who will do anything possible to cover for what Israel has done here. It’s hard to cover for the summary execution of an American citizen. But they’ve managed pretty well so far. Do you hear any cries of outrage coming from America? No, didn’t think so.

Now, let’s be fair. Dogan was born in Troy, New York, but he moved to Turkey when he was young. Maybe that’s why the American government or media haven’t made a big deal out of it.

So, imagine if Hamas had boarded a ship in international waters and shot a Jewish American who had lived in Israel most of his life. Now imagine they shot him in the head four times. Does anyone really believe we would say that doesn’t really count because he’d been living in Israel too long? Does anyone believe we wouldn’t be apoplectic about that? And rightfully so.

Anybody know what we would call it if Hamas had shot an American citizen in the head? Yeah, you guessed it. Terrorism.

So, I’d like to ask the Obama administration – which one is it? Was his life more expendable because he was a) Turkish-American b) Muslim-American c) lived outside the country for awhile or d) because Israel killed him rather than another country?

I’m genuinely curious about that. The US government so far has reacted with what appears to be complete and utter indifference to the brutal slaying of one of its citizens. So, what was it that made this guy’s life irrelevant?

I’m about to have a son. He will be partly Turkish-American. Can he be executed by Israel or any other country? Will our country protect him? Will they consider him a real American? Does he count?

Is there any other country that also has immunity in killing US citizens? We’re apparently very good allies with Saudi Arabia. Do they get to execute of any our citizens? I’m just trying to figure out the ground rules here.

Does it still mean something to be an American?

Muslims can only be citizens of this country so long as they don’t criticize the U.S. government.  If they do that, they are told “go back to your own country” and even linked to terrorists.  Meanwhile, people like Glenn Greenwald, Norman Finkelstein, Amy Goodman, Noam Chomksy, etc. (all great people who I admire a lot) are immune from such attacks.  I’ve heard from Muslim Americans themselves who say that they appreciate the efforts of such non-Muslims because they themselves must be more constrained in what they say, for fear of being accused of disloyalty or of being linked to terrorism. In other words, Muslims might technically be Americans, but they are not real Americans.  Mr. Furqan Dogan doesn’t really count because he was a Muslim American, and so it cannot be said that a real American was killed.  And because he was a Muslim, it is very easy to dismiss him as a terrorist sympathizer; he probably had it coming.

Read this:

Under Scrutiny, IDF Retracts Claims About Flotilla’s Al Qaeda Links

by Max Blumenthal

When placed under journalistic scrutiny, the IDF is being forced to admit that its claims about the flotilla’s links to international terror are based on innuendo, not facts. On June 2, the IDF blasted out a press release to reporters and bloggers with the shocking headline: “Attackers of the IDF soldiers found to be Al Qaeda mercenaries.” The only supporting evidence offered in the release was a claim that the passengers “were equipped with bullet proof vests, night vision goggles, and weapons.” A screen capture of the press release is below:

The IDF distributed this press release on June 2. The following day, it changed the headline, essentially retracting its lurid accusation.

Not content to believe that night vision goggles signal membership in Al Qaeda, reporter Lia Tarachansky of The Real News Network and I called the IDF press office to ask for more conclusive evidence. Tarachansky reached the IDF’s Israel desk, interviewing a spokesperson in Hebrew; I spoke with the North America desk, using English. We both received the same reply from Army spokespeople: “We don’t have any evidence. The press release was based on information from the [Israeli] National Security Council.” (The Israeli National Security Council is Netanyahu’s kitchen cabinet of advisors).

Today, the Israeli Army’s press office changed the headline of its press release (see below), basically retracting its claim about the flotilla’s Al Qaeda links. The new headline reads: “Attackers of the IDF Soldiers Found Without Identification Papers” (the top of the browser screen still contains the original headline about Al Qaeda). The more Israel’s claims about the flotilla’s terrorist links are challenged, the more they fall apart.

After admitting “there is no evidence” to back up its claim about the flotilla’s Qaeda links, the IDF quietly changed the headline of its press release.

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    • Imad

      Well it was compiled in July 2007 before the gaza offensive, so it may be a little outdated. And it’s not rly an article it’s just notes.. How can I send it to u?

    • Danios

      Imad: It depends. Both on the quality of your article and the relevance to the site, two factors I cannot evaluate until I see it. Thanks for your help.

    • Imad

      Hey Danios, I’m reading a UN report of israels occupation that’s 150 pages, and I’m taking bullet-point notes that I’m not giving to anybody.. If gave them to u, would u like to make an article of it? Thx

    • With US mood turning, Israel lobbyist urges approach to Russia (‘we share values’) by Philip Weiss on June 10, 2010

      Things are getting desperate in the U.S. Jennifer Laszlo Mizrahi of the Israel Project, an Israel lobby group, writes in the Jerusalem Post that America will never be the same, and it’s time to remember Israel’s shared values with the Russians:

      http://mondoweiss.net/2010/06/with-us-mood-turning-israel-lobbyist-urges-approach-to-russia-we-share-values.html

      Steven Cook of CFR works overtime to make sure US shares Israel’s new enmity to Turkey by Ibn Tufayl on June 10, 2010 I am really bothered by Steven Cook of the Council on Foreign Relations. Check out his page 1 soundbite in the Times yesterday (piece on US-Turkey relations by Tavernise/Slackman). There he confused and conflated Israel’s critique of Turkey with the US. http://mondoweiss.net/2010/06/steven-cook-of-cfr-works-overtime-to-make-sure-israels-view-of-turkey-is-shared-by-us.html

      Shadow Elite: Neocons Blast Back, On Israel’s Behalf Linda Keenan and Janine R. Wedel “[Neoconservatives] always continue to sort of lurk in the framework and look for opportunities to animate their crowd and bring in their fellow travelers..” – Steve Clemons, head of the American Strategy Program at the New America Foundation in The Nation, March 18, 2010

      The chance for neoconservative activists to “animate” the true believers came with Israel’s deadly flotilla raid on May 31, and they certainly ran with it. “We Con The World,” that satire video suggesting that the real mission of those on board the Mavi Marmara was to aid terror, was produced by Latma, a media site run by Caroline Glick, an editor at the Jerusalem Post. But it’s her other title that’s more relevant here: Senior Fellow for Middle East Affairs at the Center for Security Policy. Glick launched Latma through the CSP, which she says fully funds its operations.

      CSP is the think tank founded by Frank Gaffney, who was also a founding member of the effort known as the Project for the New American Century. PNAC, in a letter to President Clinton in 1998, called for the removal of Saddam Hussein.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-keenan/emshadow-eliteem-neocons_b_607187.html

      Neocons Have Disturbing Amounts of Influence Over Obama June 10, 2010 For those who thought the end of the Bush Administration spelled doomsday for the neoconservative movement, think again. http://www.alternet.org/world/147156/neocons_have_disturbing_amounts_of_influence_over_obama/?page=entire

    • Adam

      “Terrorist-linked” jibe = a pre-emptive speculative guilt tarring smear, playing to Pavlovian media priming.

    • Sir David ( Illuminati membership number 5:32)

      I read the transcript Where does she get these “facts” from ? Walmart? a dime a dozen? unblievable

    • iSherif

      Danios, just wanted to let you know that Europol has released their latest terrorism situation and trend report. I believe you wrote an article once covering the previous reports?

      “Islamist terrorism is still perceived as the biggest threat to most member states, despite the fact that only one Islamist terrorist attack – a bomb attack in Italy – took place in the EU in 2009,” Europol said.

      You can find the report at:

      http://euobserver.com/9/29968

      There is a link to the report at the bottom of the article.

    • Ryan

      Rueter’s did alter the images, but the Israelis still handled it badly.

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